Debt collectors - any recommendation

[HavinaGo]

Hi all,

Given I'm getting nowhere getting money back from a business ..... I'm wondering if anyone has used a debt collector before.

Any recommendations?
Any experiences?
----

The background:

I'm trying to get a deposit back from a roofing company who have not done any work. The chap missed 2 agreed start times (The first in writing back in April 2005, the second verbally agreed for a month later) -- VCAT (Vic Civil Admin Tribunal) have issued an order for immediate return of deposit.... $900-00 ..

(but no penalty, no costs so I'm behind the eight ball already for the VCAT application fee)

(Yes I know I was not wise to pay 20% up front .. but I'm trusting as it seemed to be the cost of materials)

My phone call to one debt collector discovered they charge 15% of collected amount which is starting to look acceptable. No fee for non collection.

I've tried the phone call, letters etc to the business and my mind is forming thoughts about the roofing company people's motives and heritage that I won't write....

All in all I think I failed "employ a person to do a job" :(

The gutters still leak!

[craigb]

Do you know any really big scary looking blokes? ;)

[Termite]

Try the "Hells Angels Collection Agency", usually works for me. :D

[Iain]

I used to use Prushka when I was in business, for memory it was 20% up to $200 and 10% for over.
Worked for me with a handful of pro forma letters followed by a form you filled in and sent to them then they had their dogs go out and bite for you.
The letters came as a kit and the percentage followed if the pro forma's didn't work.

[Sturdee]

Any recommendations?


Yes, get a good solicitor.


Peter.

[dazzler]

If you have very little time then use a debt service. 80% back is better than 0% back.


If you do have time drop in to the office and see the manager. If he is not in tell them you are staying until you get a check for your money.

Take a thermos, sandwiches and a radio. Take a mate. Sit and listen to the radio and everytime a customer comes in tell them that they stole your money.

They can either ignore you and put up with it or ask you to leave. Dont leave until they call the cops. Now as soon as the cops arrive they will need the owner to say words to the effect of "I am asking you to leave the premises" and this needs to be done in front of the cops. When this happens you smile sweetly, apologise to the police for the mix up and walk out.

Dont argue with the police or the manager once they are there. State simply that you are waiting for money that they has been court ordered to give back to you, show them the court document and then calmly walk out.

Come back a few days later. Same scenario. They will need to get an order to keep you away and my guess is they will just pay you the money.

Just remember.......dont argue with the cops, be polite and answer all the questions that they ask like name dob phone number etc!.

Now if the manager tries to remove you it is assault and you are one up on them.

good luck.

dazzler

[doug the slug]

VCAT (Vic Civil Admin Tribunal) have issued an order for immediate return of deposit.... $900-00 ..

!

I dont know th evictorian system but in queensland the small claims tribunal which might be the local equivalent will follow it up if you advise them thet teh individual concerned hasnt paid up by their deadline. have you advised them that you havent been paid?

[Sturdee]

I dont know th evictorian system but in queensland the small claims tribunal which might be the local equivalent will follow it up if you advise them thet teh individual concerned hasnt paid up by their deadline. have you advised them that you havent been paid?


My experience has been that noncompliance with a VCAT order ( tenant to pay for damages to rental property ) does not in itself create a legally enforceable debt. The order needs to be proven again in a magistrate court which the company can delay and then defend.

Hence my advice to see a solicitor.


Peter.

[boban]

In NSW the CTTT (equivalent of VCT) decisions can be enforced by the sheriff just like a Local Court decision. Im not going to do the research to see if its the same in Victoria.

As far a solicitor is concerned, he will never recover a solicitor's costs in a Local Court. He has to do it himself to make it worthwhile.

If the individual has a licence then I would go to the Dept which administers the licensing in the State. They have more leverage than an individual. They can suspend and even cancel licenses for shonky tradespeople.

If you dont have any other option then get a form from the Vic Magistrates Court called a Statement of Liquidated Claim and fill it in. Very easy in your case. All you need to do is tell your story very briefly and file it.

[HavinaGo]

Thanks all for the comments.

As to enforcement of the the order to pay: In VIC, the VCAT order needs to be followed up with a magestrate order. There is a fee for applying (memory says $40 odd) and then a fee for the sheriff going to visit ($140 odd) -- all with no guarantee. All in all I'm heartily sick of the chap and the legal system that seems to protect him. All he has to do is claim "I did not get the notice" and the whole process starts again. This is despite the fact that he is running an australian company whose registration details should be kept up to date as a condition of registration, which I have to pay to get access to so that VCAT can send him notices! At least when I send letters to this chap I use registered post with confirmed delivery so there is some evidence of receipt .. but does VCAT ???? who knows.

I like the sitting in the office one ... pity time is not something that I have lots of and I don't think this guy has an office .. except at home (family always in the background when I call, PO Box listed on contract) Another trick friends told me about was the looped fax. ie stick several pieves of paper together on an old style fax machine and send it to the business in question. Given the sent document never ends, the receipt never ends either. :D Uses lots of their paper and ties up their line. pity I'm not game to try it.

Thanks Iain for the name of a company you have used. will ring them .. when I can find time during their office hours.... missed it again today!

[boban]

BTW Debt Collectors are useless where the person is not scared of them. They can't do anything except write a theatening letter. Big deal.

[Sturdee]

BTW Debt Collectors are useless where the person is not scared of them. They can't do anything except write a theatening letter. Big deal.


And then take them to court for nonpayment where in this case these people will deny the debt. The magistrate will agree as the VCAT order was not followed with a magistrate order.

This simple lesson cost a former client of mine approx $ 1000 in legal, court and debt collection fees to find out.

The actual property damage was less then that so it was an expensive lesson.

BTW Vic does not have the comprehensive licensing system that NSW has so there is no licensing board that can help.


Peter.

[boban]

Chasing a small debt is a nightmare.

The sheriff makes it easier in NSW. Very few people dont have $1000 worth of stuff that the sheriff cannot sieze and sell at auction.

I still wouldn't let the guy get away with it.

[Sturdee]

Don't forget it is a company.

Probably with a paid up capital of $ 2 and the business is probably so structured ( on the advice of their accountants :D ) that it only has liabilities with all the assets in another company and that it leases the assets needed to do the work.

If wound up they would start again with a new company the next day as they still have control of their assets.


Peter.

[aussieglen]

I sympathise with your situation. If the business is still trading (ie not bankrupt) then it might be worth trying this web site;

http://www.notgoodenough.org (http://www.notgoodenough.org/)

they seem to have had some success for many of their members. Give it a try - there's nothing to lose!
Aussieglen

[Sir Stinkalot]

I was chasing close to $10K from a previous employer last year .....

I went to a lawyer to have him chase it up ..... letter one .... no reply from employer .... I had to contact lawyer to get him to follow it up .... letter two .... again no reply from employer ..... again I had to contact the lawyer to get him to follow it up ..... letter three, this time with deadline ..... deadline approached with no reply from employer ..... again I follow up with the lawyer. This time lawyer telephones employer and advisers if the account isn't paid by 5:00pm he will be filing case with court the next day. Employer makes deposit by 5:00pm.

it cost me $330.00 for three useless letters that I had to follow up with the lawyer .... however I did get my $10K back. I payed the lawyers account the day that I received it but if I had the guts I would have not paid for a few months as I had to do so much of the following myself.

[Sir Stinkalot]

I sympathise with your situation. If the business is still trading (ie not bankrupt) then it might be worth trying this web site;

http://www.notgoodenough.org (http://www.notgoodenough.org/)

they seem to have had some success for many of their members. Give it a try - there's nothing to lose!
Aussieglen

NGE got a bit of a dent to there credability following a story on A Current Affair .... I don't think that they have recovered too well.

[boban]

Don't forget it is a company.

Probably with a paid up capital of $ 2 and the business is probably so structured ( on the advice of their accountants :D ) that it only has liabilities with all the assets in another company and that it leases the assets needed to do the work.

If wound up they would start again with a new company the next day as they still have control of their assets.


Peter.

But a new company will cost about $750 (if they do it themselves) to incorporate with ASIC, so avoiding $900 is not likely to make that occur. You think like a lawyer Peter. That was the first thing I thought of when I read the post.

[Sturdee]

But a new company will cost about $750 (if they do it themselves) to incorporate with ASIC, so avoiding $900 is not likely to make that occur. You think like a lawyer Peter. That was the first thing I thought of when I read the post.


Lawyers, Accountants and Company Liquidators all think alike. :D :D :D Usually their first advice to someone setting up a business is to so structure it that in the event of a disaster the assets stay intact.

It is worth the extra paperwork required ( and used to keep me in work :D ) to maintain the legal fiction that the owners, holding company and trust, leasing company and operating company are separate entities.

BTW in my former life when I used to set up companies the incorporation fees were only $ 212 and the Vic S/d on setting up a discretionary unit trading trust was $ 1.50 Cost must have gone up abit.


Peter.

[boban]

Its why we are so popular with the public.....

[journeyman Mick]

BTW Debt Collectors are useless where the person is not scared of them. They can't do anything except write a theatening letter. Big deal.

You're using the wrong sort of debt collectors ;) You need the large, muscly, tatooed, leather wearing, motorbike riding blokes. :D

Mick