Danish Oil and the 1000s of application methods.

[barri]

OK slight exaggeration but after searching the web I found so many different ways of applying it that I got myself confused. I just bought some Watco danish oil is as its considered favorably on this site and I thought I'd find out opinions on how its applied. Big mistake.

Here's some of the suggestions.

Ignore the directions of the can and others say just follow them
Apply and wipe off after a set time. The opinion on time varies from 10 minutes to 30 minutes even for the same product.
Keep surface wet for an hour reapplying when necessary then wipe off, particularly first coat.
Wet sand all coats using progressively higher grits. Many opinions on what those grits should be.
Wet sand first coat to create a slurry and seal the grain then don't wet sand subsequent coats
Don't wet sand first coat but wet sand other coats (from Bob Flexner's book - considered a guru)
Don't wet sand at all. Just flood then wipe off.
Finish with #0000 steel wool and then wax
Don't use steel wool but use scotchbrite pad or use automotive polish or EEE
Only buff by hand or buff electrically

And the list goes on and on and on.

I know that experimenting is important and also finishing methods can change with different timbers and people have varying opinions on what looks nice but to start me off has someone got a link or advice on an applying an oil finish that they swear by and use all the time.

[DaveTTC]

Finishing is a big area for me to learn. Eager to responses

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

[LGS]

Hi,

Though it ain't necessarily for Danish Oil (depending on whose it is), I find hard burnishing to be a very useful and beautiful way to finish Red Gum, Blackwood, Huon, Bubinga, Wenge, Maple and so on and so on.

You can see the method here (http://www.sanding.damnfinefurniture.com) and some thorough testing here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f9/cabots-danish-oil-formula-change-166948). If you're in Melbourne or prepared to come here, I'll show you how it's done. FREE!! It's actually quite quick and easy. Most people who try it swear by it.

Regards,

Rob

[FenceFurniture]

Here's some of the suggestions.

Ignore the directions of the can and others say just follow them
Apply and wipe off after a set time. The opinion on time varies from 10 minutes to 30 minutes even for the same product. The longer you can leave it before it starts to thicken, the more it will soak into the timber
Keep surface wet for an hour reapplying when necessary then wipe off, particularly first coat.
Wet sand all coats using progressively higher grits. Many opinions on what those grits should be. Wet sanding doesn't work for all oils (refer below)
Wet sand first coat to create a slurry and seal the grain then don't wet sand subsequent coats
Don't wet sand first coat but wet sand other coats (from Bob Flexner's book - considered a guru)
Don't wet sand at all. Just flood then wipe off. This is what I do with Rustins DO.
Finish with #0000 steel wool and then wax All depends on the final polish you wish to achieve
Don't use steel wool but use scotchbrite pad or use automotive polish or EEE Some say that steel wool can leave fibres in the timber which can then rust and not look too good.
Only buff by hand or buff electrically All depends on the final polish you wish to achieve

And the list goes on and on and on.

I know that experimenting is important and also finishing methods can change with different timbers and people have varying opinions on what looks nice but to start me off has someone got a link or advice on an applying an oil finish that they swear by and use all the time.
Barri it will be a case of what works for you, so yes some experimenting with scrap is in order. I've never used Watco DO, so can't specifically comment.

I started using Organoil DO which can be left for quite some time before it gets more viscous. It is therefore suitable for wet sanding. However, I didn't like the way the timber nibbed up after a while, and switched to Rustin's DO.

The first time I used Rustins I tried to wet sand it in and this was a disaster. I didn't realise that Rustins goes viscous in much less time than Organoil. In short I had to rub it off with turps and start again as it was leaving skid marks of thickened oil all over the table.

So these days with Rustins I just flood on with a brush, leave it for maximum 10 minutes (which will depend on the weather) and then smooth it off with some T-shirt material (soft and fine texture). Generally I do three coats (as directed). You can cloth it on rather than brush, but that just uses up more DO left in the cloth and doesn't seem to flood as much onto the timber.

That gives me the low sheen that I like from DO. If you want a higher sheen then you can try some of the ideas you've quoted, or just wait at least a week (maybe a couple, depending on the particular oil) and then wax it.

Different timbers will want slightly different treatments. This can also depend on their age out of the ground too. 100 yo timber out of a house can be very dry and brittle, and soak up much more oil, esp in the first coat.

I suspect that the speed of drying may well depend on how much Polyurethane is in the mix, along with other drying agents. Pure Tung Oil has none of those and can be left for quite some time before clothing off, and is therefore highly suitable for wet sanding or hard burnishing to a high lustre.



Certainly the first thing to do is to follow the instructions and see what you get. When you are more experienced with it you can deduce what will give you a different result. For example I recently had a few jobs that required decking oil (outdoor stuff). There was no mention of clothing it off - just flood on and leave it to dry. I could see that because of variations within the same piece of timber that there would be shinier spots where the oil sat up on top more than soaked in, and it would look crappy. From the get-go I clothed it off after about 5-8 minutes (another quicker dry type), and was very happy with the uniformity of the finish.

HTH, but prepare yourself for another plethora of different techniques suggested.....

[Kuffy]

I use the Watco Danish Oil. I recently re-finished a coffee table top in Tas. Oak with the danish oil because the top had become wavy. I smoothed it with a handplane set to cut ~1-1.5thou and after two passes of the plane I was cutting into fresh timber again. So it seems the danish oil doesn't get much penetration in slightly high moisture content Tas Oak. It took many more passes of the plane to actually flatten the top again, so I was well and truly back into fresh timber by the end of it. I then dry sanded 400grit and 500grit and started oiling. I should have dry sanded up to atleast 1500grit but for some reason I skipped that step, so i am left with a rather matt sheen which is no good for me.

I don't have any set regime for applying danish oil. Basically it is a case of flood it on and wipe it off with some drying time between coats.

I slop it on with a brush to give a consistent thick film over the surface. Let it sit for 15-45mins. I find I can let it sit for quite some time if I have applied a very thick film. The watco stuff seems to only have a small amount of resin in it. Wipe it off with a clean tshirt rag. Let the top sit there for a couple hours, sometimes overnight, sometimes a week later. Doesn't seem to make any difference. for the first 12hours or so, the oil weeps out of the timber in a few spots. around knots, cracks, exceptionally porous spots in the timber etc, so i just give the top a wipe down every few hours. The top never really gets sticky unless you have left a huge amount of oil to begin to dry/cure on the surface. you need to remove the weeping spots though or they dry to become a really shiny spot on the surface needing to be scraped/sanded out.

I repeat that process as many times as I need to, or more usually, as many times as I can be bothered. 2 coats minimum, I usually get tired of it around the 4th coat.

Use the danish oil in a well ventilated area. I do it in my poorly ventilated garage, and I always sleep extremely well that night because I'm probably high as a kite on turps ;)

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Brett's explanations are pretty good.

One of the reasons for so many variations is the sheer variety in formulations of DO. They're basically a thinner/oil/varnish mix, where the thinners can be turps or white spirits, the oil is usually BLO or Tung Oil and the varnish? Well... the varnish can be almost any oil based varnish. There can be quite a difference between an old, traditional, 100% natural DO and a modern one with metallic driers & estapol.

Older style DOs can take a looong time to dry - try working with 100% Tung Oil!! - and so have a long period of grace in which you can work the surface (eg. letting stand for grain penetration & wet sanding) while modern DOs tend to have very short drying times - we are an impatient generation - and you can't count on long drying times, so should avoid situations where you're working it while it's half set to avoid ruining the finish you've already achieved.

Some of the modern oils can be finicky enough (eg. Organoil's stuff, which is almost a burnishing oil) that you really, really need to follow their directions to achieve a decent finish. Traditional oils... well... they tend to have a LOT of leeway when it comes to application methods.

I like old school oils, but then again I have pieces I've been applying coats to for several months now! I'll wet sand the first coat to seal the grain... but I'll also wet sand the next few coats until I get a smooth, even surface. Once a smooth finish has been obtained, I think it's pointless wet sanding any further coats, but that's my opinion.

So you can see that the "best" method of application will vary quite a bit, based on a variety of factors.

Old school formulations are forgiving, but take a long time to build up coats. Newer formulations will go on more quickly... but tend to need to be applied quickly, simply & without fussing over it.


My advice would be to pick the poison you deem most suitable (for price, economy, drying time or whatever reasons) and follow the mfrs directions. Once you're familiar with the product - and how it performs - then start worrying about "better" application methods for that product.

I'm not much real help, eh? :B

[barri]

Hi,

You can see the method here (http://www.sanding.damnfinefurniture.com) and some thorough testing here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f9/cabots-danish-oil-formula-change-166948). If you're in Melbourne or prepared to come here, I'll show you how it's done. FREE!! It's actually quite quick and easy. Most people who try it swear by it.

Regards,

Rob

Rob, I'll take you up on that. I'll give you a ring

Your method looks good

John

[DaveTTC]

I think we need a finishing gtg / workshop

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

[Christos]

This is going to be another variation and I certainly don't want to add more confusion. So I will leave it as just a general way of my method of applying this finish.

I have Organoil Danish Oil and I apply in very thin coats with a rolled up rag. This oddly is the same method that I have used to apply Wipe On Ploy.

I decant a small amount in a cup and using a tightly rolled up rag in a similar shape to what you would have if you were french polishing. Dip the rag(pad) in the finish and wipe off the excess on the side of the cup. Apply the finish to the work. As most of my pieces are turned I apply the finish in a circular motion(small circles).

I have also applied this method on flat pieces but the strokes for the final coat have been long strokes.

I have never done any french polishing but some of the steps that I have described are lifted from that method.

[Bob38S]

Just a couple of suggestions.

Always decant what you use, avoid working direct from the original container, don't be tempted to return any leftovers to the original container. Use a little less than you think you need as it is always easy to decant a little more.

Get yourself some of the old square heavy glass ashtrays, usually only a few $ at a market or garage sale. The glass ashtray is great for decanting oils,wop etc as they are easy to work from, no corners, heavy enough to dip or wipe from and they don't skid over the bench, easy to clean, etc.

[justonething]

I'm very interested in oil finishes because of the ease of application and the beauty of the rich tone it gives to the timber. Like the OP, I was at one stage quite baffled by the myriad of products available and the different ways of applications. My experience with shop purchased Danish Oil and subsequent research on oil finishes has led me to blend my own oil finishes depending on application, how much time I want to spend and what stage of my finishing applications.

My baseline formula is the general 1/3 drying oil, 1/3 turps and 1/3 poly.
I choose my oil depending if I want to do a relatively quick job, or I am particularly patient to work on the piece over a week or longer and if the piece actually lives outdoors. Raw linseed oil or raw tung oil for that matter dries very slowly, taking weeks to fully cure. This initially gave me an impression of hassles which is longer than necessary. But I found that the upside of using raw oil is that the slow drying property of these oils give them the highest penetrating power, deep into the timber. If I use boiled linseed oil, once it is cured overnight, penetration basically stops because the pores in the wood are sealed. Sanding does open up the pores again, but if they are not closed in the first instance then I don't have to sand, at least not at the initial stages.

There is an old saying on applying raw linseed oil - once a day for a week, once a week for a month, followed by once a month for a year. The kicker then comes in: Once a year for the rest of your life. I usually start off with no poly in my mix, 40 RLO and 60 turps for my first application with a brush, leave it overnight if I am busy, otherwise I check it again in a couple of hours. Most of the times, the oil is fully absorbed into the wood. If not, I wipe away the excess and give it a good rub. With my 2nd application I use 60 RLO and 40 turps. I will gradually increase the concentration of RLO until its 70 or 80% RLO. After I've done it a few times and I think the work piece is dark enough, then I start introducing PU into the mix, using 1/3 PU. I brush it on, and rub off the excess with a cloth. This layer will dry hard overnight. After this coat is dried, I will bring my sander out to give it a good sanding. For the next coat I'll apply the mixture with a cloth, rub it down and sand it again. One final coat with a cloth. I'm then done.

[GarciaJ]

Ignore the directions of the can and others say just follow them
Apply and wipe off after a set time.

....

.....

And the list goes on and on and on.

I know that experimenting is important and also finishing methods can change with different timbers and people have varying opinions on what looks nice but to start me off has someone got a link or advice on an applying an oil finish that they swear by and use all the time.

I want to try out an oil finish on a small desk piece...l have never finished anything with oil but I thought that it could not be hard and preserve the natural look of the timber, while adding sume lustre.

I always thought that for best results one should follow the instructions for use... I have been reading some oil cans at the local hardware

Wattyl's Scandinavian Oil says to apply two coats of clear, satin Estapol polyurethane and allow the second coat to dry for 48 hours. THEN apply the oil. Hmmm... why would anyone want to do THAT?

Other suppliers provide a variety of application options, including soaking for 10-30 minutes and then wiping off, and burnishing with progressively finer grades of sand paper, etc. These other product suppliers also suggest that the different methods produce slightly different results, without making comment about which one is better. This sounds right to me. The point is to allow (or in the case of burnishing, encourage) the oil to penetrate deep below the surface, and some soak time is needed for that.

I want a quick no fuss finishing method, so for my little job, I will try to saturate the surface (using say, a brush) and allow the excess oil to penetrate for a while (the supplier of my oil suggests no longer than 30 minutes) and then wipe off the excess. This is the instruction I found in the can of Minwax Helmsman Teak Oil.

I might try the other methods in the future.

[GarciaJ]

I want to try out an oil finish on a small desk piece...l have never finished anything with oil but I thought that it could not be hard and preserve the natural look of the timber, while adding sume lustre.

I always thought that for best results one should follow the instructions for use... I have been reading some oil cans at the local hardware

Wattyl's Scandinavian Oil says to apply two coats of clear, satin Estapol polyurethane and allow the second coat to dry for 48 hours. THEN apply the oil. Hmmm... why would anyone want to do THAT?

Other suppliers provide a variety of application options, including soaking for 10-30 minutes and then wiping off, and burnishing with progressively finer grades of sand paper, etc. These other product suppliers also suggest that the different methods produce slightly different results, without making comment about which one is better. This sounds right to me. The point is to allow (or in the case of burnishing, encourage) the oil to penetrate deep below the surface, and some soak time is needed for that.

I want a quick no fuss finishing method, so for my little job, I will try to saturate the surface (using say, a brush) and allow the excess oil to penetrate for a while (the supplier of my oil suggests no longer than 30 minutes) and then wipe off the excess. This is the instruction I found in the can of Minwax Helmsman Teak Oil.

I might try the other methods in the future.

Update: a couple of days ago I oiled a small desk three dial weather station made of Victorian Ash (Tasmanian Oak). I used the Teak Oil mentioned above (is "Danish Oil" synonimous with "Teak Oil"? I think it might be). Method apply liberally with a brush, leave to soak for 5 to 10 minutes, then apply some more and leave to soak for 20 minutes, then wipe the excess off thoroughlywith a rag... The piece was sanded to 600 grit prior to oiling. I am very pleased with the result a smooth satin finish that has revealed the grain and has not darkened the end grain like stain tends to do... Really nice and simple.

[M.E.Terr]

Hi barri, I discovered Rustin's Danish Oil a decade or so ago and now hardly use anything else for any woodwork, including priming windows, garden furniture. This is basically because I'm lazy and like the short time it takes to get a pleasant, robust finish. Maybe there are other oils as good. At $40-50 per litre, I've not tried many.

Our dining table is made of brown oak. 2 or 3 coats of RDO brought it to an attractive lustre on which you can put coffee cups, even a hot metal teapot, and not get any rings (provided you avoid furniture wax on top). Only oily things stain it. I apply and renew the finish by first cutting back with a cabinet scraper, then wipe DO on generously, and wipe off surplus vigorously after a minute or five, aiming to buff it up to a lustre which gets shinier with each coat. If you don't wipe off, the stuff not soaked into the wood can go gooey and has to be removed with another scraping. Scraping alone is not quite good enough if the surface is not perfectly flat:- the valleys are more shiny than the peaks which got cut by the scraper. Then you need some fine abrasive paper to get into the valleys and a damp cloth to remove all the dust. Dust gets into the grain which may dull the appearance of the wood. A perfectly flat surface would be nice but I've not yet mastered that art - maybe another discussion some time. Cheers.

Quote: For every job done perfectly, there are probably about three left unfinished.


OK slight exaggeration but after searching the web I found so many different ways of applying it that I got myself confused. I just bought some Watco danish oil is as its considered favorably on this site and I thought I'd find out opinions on how its applied. Big mistake.

Here's some of the suggestions.

Ignore the directions of the can and others say just follow them
Apply and wipe off after a set time. The opinion on time varies from 10 minutes to 30 minutes even for the same product.
Keep surface wet for an hour reapplying when necessary then wipe off, particularly first coat.
Wet sand all coats using progressively higher grits. Many opinions on what those grits should be.
Wet sand first coat to create a slurry and seal the grain then don't wet sand subsequent coats
Don't wet sand first coat but wet sand other coats (from Bob Flexner's book - considered a guru)
Don't wet sand at all. Just flood then wipe off.
Finish with #0000 steel wool and then wax
Don't use steel wool but use scotchbrite pad or use automotive polish or EEE
Only buff by hand or buff electrically

And the list goes on and on and on.

I know that experimenting is important and also finishing methods can change with different timbers and people have varying opinions on what looks nice but to start me off has someone got a link or advice on an applying an oil finish that they swear by and use all the time.