Thinning Gel Stain

[rustybike57]

Hello,
I bought a small bottle of gel stain at the craft store last week to try using gel stain on my wood projects. It's a dark brown color and probably not the best quality, more for craft projects. I don't like how it looks on the pine piece I put it on, it looks cheap. I put some polyurethane on it and it looks worse. In stead of just throwing it away I was thinking about thinning it with water to make a more opaque stain, I would like to see some of the grain. I would also like to use it to "age" some wood but this stuff dries too fast to be able to remove a lot of it for the "aged" look. So my question is it worth the bother or should I chuck it in the bin? I can always learn something messing around with it. Does any one else here dilute their gel stains?

[Christos]

I am not sure if you have treated(sealed) the pine before applying any of the stain. Pine tends to blotch when it comes to a finish or stains. Meaning it does not give an even coat and looks more like patch work. :rolleyes:

As an example of a sealer coat that would be shellac.

In regards to the gel stains personally I have not tried them so cannot comment on their use.

I have diluted some finish but really that dilation is very sparingly. As you already have the gel stain I might suggest decanting some in a jar and play around with it on some test pieces. Better to loose a little bit then the whole lot.

[Bob38S]

Agree with Christos re the sealing to minimise the blotching. Pine is notorious for this if not finely sanded and sealed.

Personally, I prefer spirit stains as they tend to highlight the grain as opposed to many of the other types which tend to have more opacity and tend to hide the grain. To use spirit stains, practise first as there is a learning curve to achieve good results. Water based stains are more forgiving or try your own stains eg coffee, strong tea which can give interesting results and can be made darker with extra coats. Always ensure that any end grain is properly sealed as any stains will end up much darker as it is quickly absorbed, I find that any end grain needs a diluted coat of stain if it is to match any flat surfaces.

[ian]

The US finishing gurus, Bob Flexnor and Jeff Jewitt, both recommend sealing or conditioning the surface (with a thinned finish or just a slow evaporating solvent) before applying a gel stain.

From what I read, the thickening agent in a gel stain may not respond to the addition of additional solvent. A rough analogy might be trying to dilute a set jelly.

[RoyG]

Gel Stains are specifically designed to be a gel that has Thixotropic properties (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thixotropy). A thixotropic gel when sitting static takes on a thick gel consistency. When you agitate, stir, spread, etc the gel, it's thixotrophic properties mean that the gel temporarily becomes less viscous, allowing you to spread the gel stain easily. The more you stir or otherwise agitate the gel, the more liquid like it will get - up to a limit. Adding thinners to the gel stain (assuming you can find out what sort of thinners is needed) would decrease the thixotropic properties of the gel, leaving you most likely with a gloopy mess.

Fine Woodworking Magazine has a detailed article about Gel Stains and how to use them. http://www.finewoodworking.com/FWNFREEPDF/011158060.pdf

Hope that info helps.

Regards,

RoyG

[rob streeper]

I've used two brands of gel stains, Minwax and Old Masters. The Minwax is IMO just thick/goopy polyurethane stain - it'll even produce runs. The Old Masters is in a different league and is now my preferred non-shellac finish for wooden objects. Minwax is really only fit for low grade work where the final finish is secondary to, say, protection from moisture.