Real Or Wrong ??

[Ashore]

Came through Tonight
Must admit I agree with most of it on first read
But on closer examination this is the sort of stuff that is often written by right wing neo nazis , just enough to get you on side with some good arguements then in comes the bigotry
Or am I Paronoid , and ifam , that doesn't mean the whole world isn't against me.


"Sometimes you need to stand up, and be counted for what you believe in. This is one of those times!"
Australia - The Right to Leave
Our Country - YOU Have the right - the right to leave !
After Sydney not wanting to offend other cultures by putting up Xmas
lights.
After hearing that the State of South Australia changed its opinion and
let a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver's license with her face
covered.
This prompted this editorial written by an Australian citizen.
Published in an Australian newspaper. Quote:
IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It
I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending
some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we
have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.
However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the
"politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility
that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against
immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia.
However, there are a few things that those who have recently come toour country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.
This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served
only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Australians,
we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own
lifestyle. This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles,
trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese,Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part
of our society, Learn the language!
"In God We Trust" is our National Motto. This is not some Christian,
right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian
men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this
is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on
the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you
consider another part of the world as your new home, Because God is
part of our culture.

If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like " A Fair Go",
then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this
planet.

We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, And wereally don't care how you did things where you came from.This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow
you every opportunity to enjoy all this.

But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our
Flag,
Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I highly
encourage
you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,
"THE RIGHT TO LEAVE".

If you aren't happy here then f#@* off! We didn't force you to come
here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.
Pretty easy really, when you think about it.I figure if we all keep passing this to our friends (and enemies) itwill also, sooner or later get back to the complainers,
lets all try, please.
No matter how many times you receive it... please forward it to all
you
know.

[Daddles]

I don't see any good arguments that start to get me on side. I just find the whole thing scary and personally, would prefer to see it disappear from the forum. That's no reflection on you Ashore, because I believe you did want honest opinions. Well, mine is that this world is too precious to spread this sort of stuff for any reason, no matter how innocent. The clowns who wrote that are no different from the clowns hiding in Asian caves planning suicide bombings.

Richard

[kiwigeo]

The grammer tells me its written by someone with an IQ barely above that of a piece of 4 x 2.

Its not a message about patriotism..its someone of limited inteligence venting off their ignorance and bigotry. If I received such an email I'd be chasing up the orginator of the mail and reporting them to their ISP. If the person who sent the mail has munged the return address in the header then its spam and should be dealt with appropriately.

[kiwigeo]

This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles,
trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese,Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, Learn the language!


Okay this guy has got me going!! Look at this j**rk pontificating about english skill when he cant even work out where in a sentence he should be using capitals.

The Snowy Mountain project wouldnt have got off the ground if it hadnt have been for hundreds of European workers many of whom probably didnt have too good a grasp of english and most certainly would have spoken their native languages at home with their families. Were these guys unpatriotic and un -Australian because their english wasnt 100%?

Im working out here on an (American) oil rig with guys who are Australians but originally hail from all over the globe. I was born in NZ, my wife comes from Japan and the other Geologist out here is a Serb. Half of the guys on this rig dont speak crash hot english but they're more Australian than the author of the above drivel.

Enough ranting....been out here on this rig for 5 weeks now and tolerance for Nazis isnt too good.

[journeyman Mick]

"In God we trust" - isn't that what's printed on the US currency? Not our motto as far as I know. Looks like someone has rehashed an American redneck manifesto.

Mick

[kiwigeo]

This prompted this editorial written by an Australian citizen.
Published in an Australian newspaper. Quote:


This is B** S**. No Australian newspaper would publish this cr*p in an editorial and I doubt most papers would even accept it as a letter to the editor.

The author of the mail hasnt supplied a reference for the editorial because there isnt one. The only publication it might have appeared in would be the in house news letter of one of the looney Neo-Nazi groups active in this country.

[Schtoo]

You know, it's really interesting how your ideas and thoughts change when you are on the other side of the argument.

I could pontificate here for hours, but it's not changing anything.

And if, just if the claim that this was actually written and printed in Australia, well...

Kinda happy I don't share the same piece of dirt with a &*&^% like that.

Also have a whole new understanding of the folks who won't/can't/don't learn English. ;)

[kiwigeo]

You know, it's really interesting how your ideas and thoughts change when you are on the other side of the argument.

Also have a whole new understanding of the folks who won't/can't/don't learn English. ;)
Funny how when you live in a non English speaking country you suddenly do get a whole new angle on life. Simple little tasks like going down to the post office to buy a stamp become traumatic experiences.....When I first arrived in Japan it took me a day to get up enough courage and practise what I was going to say before heading off to the local post office. Stood in the que as nervous as hell, finally got to the counter.......and completely froze up. The guy behind the counter knew what was going on and worked out what I wanted and I left a happy chappy.

My time in Japan also taught me what it was like being on the receiving end of a bit of good old fashoned prejudice and bigotry....got run off from a contract I was working on by a character who simply didnt like foreigners....didnt have the language skills necessary to fight my case so I just left. It hurt at the time but I soon realised that this character was a one off and that generally during my stay Id been treated pretty well by people.

[silentC]

Whilst I agree with all of the above, I think there is one good point to be made. This business about trying not to tread on toes irks me a bit. Fortunately it hasn't spread down here yet but I know of a few kids of friends in Sydney whose schools cancelled Christmas and Easter-related stuff because it was considered offensive to the cultures of some of the students at the school.

I'm sorry, you can call me what you want, but that kind of thing sucks.

[HappyHammer]

I agree with SC whilst I don't support nazi opinions the PC members of society should have a good look at themselves and have a think about whether some of the ridiculous proposals they put forward are fuelling the people that write this kind of propoganda.

I'm an immigrant and whilst I don't support the Australian cricket team ;) I feel I've made an effort to fit into the Australian way of life. To be honest it wasn't much of an effort because I came here aspiring to that lifestyle, makes you wonder why people come here if they have objections to the way Australians live and the values they support. I've travelled a fair bit and have been to many countries that have values I didn't agree with and I never considered living in any of them, OK that's not strictly true I considered living in the US but I came to my senses after visiting Australia.:D
HH.

[Jack E]

This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity.
It has also lead to a wonderful array of culinary delights being available to us :) :)


As Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
Many of them immigrants.


"In God We Trust" is our National Motto. This is not some Christian,
right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian
men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this
is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on
the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you
consider another part of the world as your new home, Because God is
part of our culture.
In god we trust is not our national motto. Christians may have founded this nation on christian principles, they also did many other things in their time which I am glad we no longer have to suffer. This guy is using his religion against that of others, a little one eyed I think.
I am not religious and think religion should have no bearing on anything except for an individuals way of life. Religion is a personal choice, keep it personal.


If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like " A Fair Go",
then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this
planet.
How about giving immigrants a fair go.


We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change
Some do, I quite like some of the influences of multiculturalism.

All that being said, I do not like the way SOME communities keep to themselves and have a go at Australians. Being called a "skippy" as an insult in your own country is intolerable. By all means celebrate your heritage, follow your team etc, but keep Australia the friendly and helpful country it is.

[NotRalph]

Whilst I am not an immigrant and still do not support the Australian cricket team ( boring game even when it's exciting:confused: ) I feel that jingoist rubbish like that is published because on the FACE of it, it is wonderfully Australian. In fact, to be Australian today is to be part of an amazing mixture of races and languages which, while we all complain about it sometimes, is something to be proud of, protective of and very patriotic about!
This forum is a great example of our willingness to enjoy the company of people from all sorts of places and backgrounds and on that very subject I only have one further thing to say....
























BLOODYGOODONYERS!!!

[zenwood]

Looks like a load of bigoted rubbish to me. Racism disguised as patriotism.

Came through Tonight What was the source, Ashore?


This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served
only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity.
And what is our national identity? White, I'll bet.


As Australians,
we have our own culture, our own society, our own language
yes, and the original Australians, one of the oldest cultures on earth, had hundreds of languages


"In God We Trust" is our National Motto. This is not some Christian,
right wing, political slogan.
We've now morphed into mindless quotation of American conservative opinion. "In God We Trust" is not the Australian national motto, but the American one, designated as such by act of Congress in 1956 during cold-war paranoia towards the godless communists. Interestingly, the Treaty of Tripoli, which was approved by President John Adams, and ratified by the US Senate on 10 June 1797, states:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion - as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquillity of Musselmen - and as the said states never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

US lawmakers were far less religious only a couple of decades after the establishment of the Union than they are now.


If the Southern Cross offends...we really don't care how you did things where you came from...griping about ... Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I highly
encourage
you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,
"THE RIGHT TO LEAVE".
Absolute drivel. I'm Australian, and I'm offended by your views. Should I tell you to exerecise your right to leave?


f#@* off! very erudite...



No matter how many times you receive it... please forward it to all
you
know. I would have prefered not to see such mindless hatred expressed in these forums. Instead, it's been passed on.

I would rather you'd just pressed the delete button, and let it die.

[Christopha]

Sounds like bloody John Laws or Alan Jones to me, all moccy wearing, stupid, emotional claptrap and no meat and potatoes!

[silentC]

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/beamerican.html

Thought I'd seen it before...

[Wongo]

I understand what he is saying. I have been in this country for more then 16 years and I try very hard to learn the language. I treat all my mates like brothers.

But I just don’t know what he is trying to achieve here. BTW do you know how many westerners in Hong Kong and China whose do not speak Chinese at all? Aren't we all the same?

[DavidG]

I am a pom - Came here as a 10 quid import.

My wife in Indonesian by birth and chinese by blood line.

My kids are Chinpoms? born here.

But we are all Australian. :D

What else matters. :D

[craigb]

I don't think it's an appropriate post for the forum.
In fact I think it contravenes "Message to Noora and Others"

Biggoted American tripe re-written so that it purports to be Australian.
I'm surprised that hasn't already deleted it.

[Ashore]

Looks like a load of bigoted rubbish to me. Racism disguised as patriotism.
What was the source, Ashore?
The source Long time friend of my wifes, second husbant Born again christian , found god while in jail for fraud, whith anglo saxon not born in australia
Often sends the god is good , need a hug type e-mail , but this one was obivously a forward on thing and I guess i'm on his list I doubt it he read it too hard, proberly just skimmed it and sent it on.

As I said I read this and thought yeah no xmas lights , licence with face covered etc, then I read it again and had second thoughts , then third, etc
I posted this to see if I was reading too much into it, is this an honest article or something more evil or am I just parionid

As you say I should have just pressed the delete and will happly delete it now ,
or should we draw attention to such articles and see them for what they realy are.





Russell





Useless infomation for the day

Man with one chopstick go hungry.

[Wongo]

Another God fearing good Christian. :rolleyes:

[HappyHammer]

I have no problem with it being posted for discussion and hiding it away to save our delicate little flowers is not the answer.

Say no to censors unless it's something I don't agree with !!:rolleyes: :confused: :D

HH.

[AlexS]

The best thing about this letter is that it has shown that the members of this forum are smart enough to recognise it for the rubbish it is, while being prepared to engage in serious discussion on the issues without resorting to personal slanging.

[HappyHammer]

while being prepared to engage in serious discussion on the issues without resorting to personal slanging.
Well almost :D

HH.

[craigb]

I have no problem with it being posted for discussion and hiding it away to save our delicate little flowers is not the answer.



Sorry, but that's beside the point.

To quote the bearded one:



Message to Noora and others.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Noora, we don't care what your political or religious beliefs are.

However, on this board we do not enter into political debates or debates on foreign policies of our own or other countries. We also do not discuss religion.

There are other forums on the net for these things. Please use them.

Thank you.
__________________
Ian () Robertson
"We do good turns every day"

[zenwood]

"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." (Romans 12:18)

"Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you," (Luke 6:27)

And yet:


"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34)
Here endeth the lesson.:)

[zenwood]

Oops: am I in contravention of the Noora ban?

[HappyHammer]

Sorry, but that's beside the point.

To quote the bearded one:
I thought we were discussing the intolerance of an individual not foreign policy:confused: can't see how this thread qualifies.

HH.

[craigb]

because Christian
men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this
is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on
the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you
consider another part of the world as your new home, Because God is
part of our culture.



That at least contrevenes the bit about discussing religion.

Ashore, you were right. It is bigotry and you shouldn't need us to tell you.

[HappyHammer]

That at least contrevenes the bit about discussing religion.
That's not what the discussion was about though, seems it has struck some kind of nerve.;)

HH.

[craigb]

seems it has struck some kind of nerve.;)

HH.

Not with me.
I'm a heathen and proud of it. :)

My point is that the contents of that message are offensive to a lot of the members of this board, as evidenced by the responses it has provoked.

It's plain and simple bigotry and I don't understand Ashore's need to post it.

Tell me what there is to discuss about it.

[HappyHammer]

I think it's healthy to get our views out on the table in relation to bigots, just like we do on many other subjects in "Nothing to do with woodwork" such as discussions on paedophiles, Bob Carr quitting, Sexpo, London bombing and one you started about a man growing a penis on his arm.

It seems to me that Ashore posted it to solicit a reaction and that's exactly what he got and that's what we all aim for when starting a thread otherwise it would be a bit dull. Plus he posted with a question not with the intention of offending anyone, please correct me if I'm wrong Ashore.

HH

[craigb]

I think it's healthy to get our views out on the table in relation to bigots, just like we do on many other subjects in "Nothing to do with woodwork" such as discussions on paedophiles, Bob Carr quitting, Sexpo, London bombing and one you started about a man growing a penis on his arm.

It seems to me that Ashore posted it to solicit a reaction and that's exactly what he got and that's what we all aim for when starting a thread otherwise it would be a bit dull. Plus he posted with a question not with the intention of offending anyone, please correct me if I'm wrong Ashore.

HH

Well obviuosly I don't agree with you. You can only have one opinion on bigotry imo.

However, I've said my piece so I'll drop it.

What else would you like to say about bigotry?

[HappyHammer]

I dislike it as much as you do....but not to the point of not discussing it :p

HH.

[Paper Artist]

Bigotry what you need to climb when cannot see point of view of other person. Get it? Bigotry - like "bigger tree" - need to climb - once you get over see further! Paper Artist make very profound joke! You all laugh now! Send money!!

[craigb]

You all laugh now! Send money!!

I did the first bit. I'll keep the money. Sorry.

[zenwood]

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." -- att. Voltaire

[Paper Artist]

I'll keep the money
Suprising how often Paper Artist hear this :(

Or maybe not surpise at all.

[zenwood]

Suprising how often Paper Artist hear this :(

Or maybe not surpise at all. Hey Paper: I ordered the performance art versions of the boulder: you got my payment -- in kind :)

[Paper Artist]

Paper Artist hear this joke many time. Very funny. Very ironic. Cause Paper Artist to heave belly in guffaw. NOT!!!

[Christopha]

Well, if nothing else Ashore has given us all the chance to yell out to all and sundry that we aren't bloody bigots, racists or religious fruitcakes..... thanks to all.....

[Termite]

Well, if nothing else Ashore has given us all the chance to yell out to all and sundry that we aren't bloody bigots, racists or religious fruitcakes..... thanks to all.....
Yes, I agree, but I must admit to wondering if at times this beautiful free land of ours is a little bit too free. I'm sure we can all think of examples. ;)

[DaveInOz]

Well, if nothing else Ashore has given us all the chance to yell out to all and sundry that we aren't bloody bigots, racists or religious fruitcakes..... thanks to all.....

Bollocks!

I am all those things and more, I used to generalise about the mindless stupidity and arrogance of certain races, followers of certain religions, even occupations.
Then I saw how wrong I had been, 99% of all people are mindlessly stupid and arrogant, regardless of race, creed, job, amount of hair etc.

If you don't like it .... I don't care, you are ( probably *99%*) mindlessly stupid so why would I care what you think.

The sooned the human race goes the way of the dinosaurs and the mice take over the better.

PS - I have fought and died in every major conflict for this country, and yes, in fact I do own the road.

PPS - is it too late for the foil?

[Termite]

PPS - is it too late for the foil?
No, but I'd hurry! :D

[Christopha]

Bollocks!

I am all those things and more, I used to generalise about the mindless stupidity and arrogance of certain races, followers of certain religions, even occupations.
Then I saw how wrong I had been, 99% of all people are mindlessly stupid and arrogant, regardless of race, creed, job, amount of hair etc.

If you don't like it .... I don't care, you are ( probably *99%*) mindlessly stupid so why would I care what you think.

The sooned the human race goes the way of the dinosaurs and the mice take over the better.

PS - I have fought and died in every major conflict for this country, and yes, in fact I do own the road.

PPS - is it too late for the foil?

Oh dear! Goodness gracious me! Er! Um! Strewth Ruth! Bugger me and FAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!! I am absolutely horrfied to hear that you believe that you own the road when I know that for a fact ( cos he told me!) that my Dad does and he and his caravan intend to enforce it for the next three months..... and he has no intention to use his indicators either! SO THERE!!!
Waddareyasumsortawog????

[Sturdee]

I am absolutely horrfied to hear that you believe that you own the road when I know that for a fact ( cos he told me!) that my Dad does


You're both wrong. I own my section of the road near my place because I paid for it. Still have the council receipt too. :D


Peter.

[DaveInOz]

Birthday or not Christopha, you, your curling wand, your doorstop, and your pansy ar*e, girlie attitude can get stuffed. :mad:
I think people are d*ckheads, I find it astounding that you still manage stand out from the crowd you .... um ... actually, if memory serves, you do stand out from the crowd, head and broad shoulders above it in fact. :eek:

Oh Crap.... um, sorry.
See you at the Melb WWW, ... mate :) *crawl crawl* :o

:D

[Gingermick]

this beautiful free land of ours
It's costing me a fortune :D

[RETIRED]

I have only just seen this, Some of us work away from computers. :D

I considered deleting it under "The Noora Rule" but this was not forcing a religion on anyone and the religious content was in the text of the message.

Taken as a whole I think it is worthy of discussion under the Forum rules otherwise Carr resigning and a few other posts would have to be deleted as well.

Having said all that, if an argument develops they will be deleted.

[outback]

I think its time we all had a glass of warm milk, a Bex, and a little lie down.
I can't help but think the respirator straps are too tight.

Remember the good old days, when we used to gang up on a newbie with shouts of, "do a search", or "who cares where the new store is". Now we've sunk to fighting amongst ourselves.

[DavidG]

DaveInOz

Listen mate, I have these lovely tablets. ;)

If I take them every morning the world is beautiful. Wheeeeee. :p

If I don't I sound like you. :eek:
Do you want some???? :D

Dave..

[adrian]

Whenever you get stuff like this e-mailed to you just cut and paste a phrase into Google "in quotes" and you will find the source.
It's the same way university lecturers and high school teachers catch people who just lift stuff off the net for assignments.

Search on ""In God We Trust" is our National Motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan"
and you will get the picture.
I received that email quite a while back and it was obvious that it was a US author not Aussie.
It is put out by people who wear pointed white hats to cover their pointed 'white' heads.
In God We Trust is not our national motto and this country wasn't founded by Christians. The person who altered this particular piece of garbage to appeal to Australians knew less about Australia than most arab immigrants.

[zenwood]

... if an argument develops they will be deleted. Good call . Is probably getting close to the Noora threshold, but still on this side of it, I reckon.
\end{crawl}