venieer repair piano

[decco]

I have my uncles grand piano in need of repairs. The veneer was broken off in a move a few years back so there isn't a broken piece to use. He suggested using a piece from underneath to match but i thought i might check with some experts first. I don't have much experience with veneer. So any tips appreciated.
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[ian]

I think you would want to replace the entire piece of veneer, not just apply a patch to the chipped area.

Lifting a strip of veneer from the underside is likely to be tricky as removing it depends on it's size and the glue used to attach it. Then you have the problem of colour matching.

My first thought would be to get a piece of new veneer, attach it, then colour it to match the rest of the piece.
Finishing the new veneer is likely to be the most arduous part of the task.

[Xanthorrhoeas]

How old is the piano and what timber is the veneer?

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with ian above:sad1:. At least for antiques, the least modification made, least removed, is the best choice to retain value. There are many very valuable veneered antiques that have small chips repaired with small pieces of similar coloured veneers. It is almost impossible to get a perfect match but people expect and accept some signs of age. So, even if the piano is relatively modern, I recommend finding out what the timber is then finding from a commercial supplier or cutting your own piece of veneer with a bandsaw to patch/match. I do agree with ian that you should not remove a piece from elsewhere on the piano, any additional damage is additional loss of value. There are suppliers of veneers listed in woodwork magazines - for parquetry/marquetry etc. Carbatec used to sell some Australian veneers too.

Antique pianos were often veneered in mahogany or walnut.

In antique pianos the adhesive would be an animal glue of some kind, probably rabbit skin glue. You can test that with some fairly hot water on a rag. If you wipe where the glue was with the wet rag (protect adjacent good veneer with masking tape or similar). If it is animal glue it will soften and may even wipe off. If it is animal skin glue then you need to glue the replacement patch on with animal skin glue. Carbatec sell a Titebond brand liquid hide glue that I have used for such repairs. It is easy to use and has not shown any signs of failure for me. Alternatively, you can buy rabbit skin glue on eBay, soak it, heat it and use the original adhesive.

If it is a modern adhesive then you will need to scrape it off pretty thoroughly. I would still use the hide glue for the repair because it is reversible. If it isn't good enough you just apply hot water and the patch can be removed .

Good luck

[decco]

Thanks Ian and Xanthorrhoeas.

Not entirely sure of the timber used if its not jarrah or Pine I'm pretty useless at identifying it. It is animal glue i do know that and we think its about 80-100 years old.

So it looks like i will track down a separate matching piece of veneer and some hide glue to do the repairs.

Thanks again.

[ian]

Hi decco

Looking at the colour, I think the veneer might be mahogany.

If the piano was build in the 1920s or 30s -- which would make it 80 to 100 years old -- the finish could be nitro cellulose rather than shellac. I'm unsure how to test for nitro cellulose.

a word of caution.
it's very likely that the existing finish is contaminated with silicone from products like spray and wipe.
The silicone can cause major problems when applying a finish.

if the piano does have significant antique (as opposed to sentimental) value, it might pay to engage a professional restorer.

[Xanthorrhoeas]

Hi decco,

Well, here I can agree completely with ian!!

Years ago I was told that you can test for a nitrocellulose lacquer by using lacquer thinners on a rag. I haven't tried it. You can test whether it is a shellac finish by using some metho on a rag (any testing obviously done in an inconspicuous spot).

The latest Australian Wood Review magazine has an advertisement for a veneer supplier in Victoria (Peter Scott-Young, ph/fax 03 9870 8733) I have not bought from him and you may well find someone closer but he may be able to help with a match if you can send him photos of what you need. Fortunately for you it is much easier to patch that dark cross-banding rather than the face veneer.

[mark david]

Hi decco
Is this a Steinway & sons ?
if so this is a top quality piano and would have considerble value both sentimental and commercial.
Almost certainly Rosewood veneer,probably brazillian although this has faded considerably from exposure to sunlight.

The damage is not too severe and you could cut out the damaged piece following the grain as closely as possible.
This will enable a very small piece to be removed and negate a jagged repair or removing much of the original veneer.
If you cut the veneer with a slight taper you can make a slightly wedge shaped piece from a suitable source and will make it easy to tightly fit in a repair piece.

I have around 5000 square feet of veneer but unfortunately my only Brazillian rosewood is in England and not accessible.
A small piece of mahogany or similar veneer,possibly even jarrah could be stained to match.
Ideally,animal glue should be used but pva would probably be ok for such a small repair.

[decco]

Hi Mark

Thanks for the infomation i will try to find out if its a Steinway and sons.

Thanks again Ian and Xanthorrhoeas.

[Evanism]

would such a company keep records? i.e. does it have a date of manufacture or serial number? Perhaps an email to them would dredge something out of the archive?

edit: bwwwwaaaaa!!!! JACKPOT! Steinway Serial Numbers | How Old is My Steinway? (http://www.steinwaypianos.com/service/how-old-is-my-steinway)

[soundman]

It should not be hard to check the origin ...... check the boss cast into the harp ...... lift the keyboard lid and look there ....... if its a Steinway particularly an old one and it is in mechanically good condition ...... I would LEAVE IT ALONE.

Look at what you would have to do to make a tradesman like repair ....... unless you have a lot of money and know someone who knows whatbthey are doing ..... you are likley to do more damage to the value making a repair than you would leaving it alone.

Drape a doily over it if it offends, but otherwise leav it alone.

cheers

[chris_77]

Hi Decco
I am working with hight end Antiques. Just arrived to Melbourne from UK.
Send me PM IF you need any help .
Cheers
Chis