Restoring a dining set

[natiscakes]

Hello all
I recently bought a second hand dining set. It is not an antique, but it is solid wood, and I loved it when I saw it.
However it has a lot of scratches. At first I thought that a bit of varnish would soon make it look ok (I'm a newbie at this), but quickly realised this would not work.

I am now considering stripping off all the varnish and then re-varnishing once it is fully stripped.

The thing is that I have no idea what I'm doing. I have been looking at tools available to remove the varnish, and don't really know what would be suitable, or what I would need. I have 8 chairs and a heavy 1.5m x 1.5 table to do. I want some tools that will make the work a little easier than going at it with sandpaper alone.

Please keep in mind, that I am not going to be doing this all the time, if ever again (although i may end up being bitten by the restoration bug, who knows???)
I need some starter tools, which are not going to cost me an arm and a leg.

Help??
Are the following any good?
http://www.bunnings.com.au/ozito-125w-95mm-detail-sander-_p6290236
http://www.bunnings.com.au/ozito-260w-delta-sander-_p6290386
http://www.bunnings.com.au/ozito-75-x-533mm-850w-variable-speed-belt-sander_p6290504
http://www.bunnings.com.au/ozito-800w-belt-sander_p6290503

[Master Splinter]

I'd recommend:
Paint stripper (Diggers brand - CAUTION don't get it on exposed skin, wear gloves and eye protection)
Ryobi/green Bosch orbital sander
Hand sanding block and paint scraper.

That should get you out of it for a minimal investment. A methylene chloride based paint stripper like the Diggers brand stuff will take all the varnish off in pretty much one go; paint it on, wait 10 minutes, start scraping the resultant gloopy mess off. Strip a section at a time, as it is messy and nasty.

[Master Splinter]

...another good investment is not to scrimp on the sanding disks for the sander. Don't expect to do it all with just a half dozen; at a minimum buy a ten pack each of 120 and 240 grit. When you get up to actual finishing, you may want (depending on the finish) to go all the way to 4000 grit.

[natiscakes]

Thanks Master Splinter.
I did some research on the stripper yesterday. I wanted to know what extra precautions i may need to take, seeing I have never used anything like it. Actually, I have never done anything like this before at all.
In reviews for the Diggers brand I read that the formula has changed and it doesn't work as well as it used to.
Are there different types of this paint stripper?
It sounds like the scraper is going to be getting really sticky and messy, what do I remove the paint off it with, best to use some old rags, or newspaper?
I am not going to be doing this for a few weeks yet. I have to paint my fence first ;)

[Master Splinter]

Diggers Paint Stripper is 870 grams/litre methylene chloride and 130 grams/litre methanol, and it's the strongest paint removal stuff you'll find without considering sandblasting.

It'll take the 2k off car panels and powdercoat off wheels in under 15 minutes; about the only thing needed to improve performance is a quick swipe over the surface with 80 grit before applying to let it bite into the paint faster.

The poor reviews are probably talking about their Paint Stripper Plus, which is environmentally friendly (totally free of methylene chloride), and, like all paint strippers without methylene chloride, is rubbish.

Paint stripping is a job where the words 'environmentally friendly' should not appear on the can if you actually want to get things done in less than geological timescales. Good paint strippers will fade rainbows, poison unicorns and render all nearby faeries sterile and flightless. A full 4 litre can of it will also club baby seals and use driftnets to catch dolphins if left unattended for too long, and I certainly wouldn’t leave a 20 litre drum of it in charge of a child care centre; good paint stripper is nasty!

See the (delightfully 80's) diggers video here:
http://www.recochem.com.au/index.php/products/consumer_products/solvents/item/diggers_paint_stripper

Or this one -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUJ0_4BkwZ0

Do the stripping outside, or in the garage with the garage door up. Overalls, eye protection and nitrile gloves (Ansell Super Gloves - green with a yellow wristband, Coles or Woolies) are a good start - getting it on your skin is pretty much like getting boiling water on your skin, except it takes about 15 seconds for you to notice, and about 15 minutes for the pain to go away after you wash it off.

If you've ever wondered what it would feel like to get molten lead in your eye, paint stripper is probably a good indication. Don't get it in your eyes!

Use a cheap (or natural bristle) brush - it also has a tendency to melt many types of plastic (so a metal scraper, too!)

[natiscakes]

Thanks so much for the explanation and the laugh!!!
I am glad you provided the videos, because reading the description you gave me, I thought the stuff would surely jump out off the can and burn my face off!!!
Thanks again, I may be back again, once I get the courage to try it :)
:2tsup:

[Xanthorrhoeas]

It is always a good idea to take some photos and attach them to your post. There are a multitude of finishes out there and they will all respond/be repaired differently. The advice that you have received seems to be predicated on the finish being polyurethane. BUT, what if you have an oiled finish or a varnish that is soluble with thinners? I can't guarantee that I will recognise what the finish is, nor an easier way to fix it - but there is a chance that I or someone else may have an easier solution for you.

Some examples:

oiled finishes can often be repaired by an application of more oil
some varnishes "wipe off" with their solvent and can be easily re-coated
shellac finishes (the best IMHO) are easily repaired with fresh shellac application (easy test - does it dissolve with metho rubbed on with a rag?)

Over to you, but don't charge down the nasty paint stripper path unless you are sure.

Good luck

[natiscakes]

Thank you Xanthorrhoeas (http://www.woodworkforums.com/member.php?u=91606).
I will do that.

I actually wanted to run something else past you all. My manager at work has been on leave, she just returned and when we caught up earlier this week, I mentioned my project as she is into making furniture.
She recommended oiling the table and chairs rather than re-varnishing. What she said was that it will be easier to fix if i get any scratches as I wont have to revarnish the whole lot. I have a four year old, so I think this may be the way to go.
Any thoughts?

I will provide pictures in a few days. I have left the whole set at my parents since my garage is too small and is currently full of junk :)

[Xanthorrhoeas]

She recommended oiling the table and chairs rather than re-varnishing. What she said was that it will be easier to fix if i get any scratches as I wont have to revarnish the whole lot. I have a four year old, so I think this may be the way to go.
Any thoughts?


Many others on the forums know more than I do about oil finishes on furniture. One consideration is that children have been known to chew on furniture so the finish should be child safe if not actually food safe. For example, one of the best oil finishes that I know is a marine product called Deks Olje (Deck Oil). It comes in two grades, a very liquid oil that you apply until the wood is saturated and then a second, viscuous oil that gives a gloss finish. It is excellent and long lasting, but the solvent vapour in it gives me headaches so I would probably not recommend it around young children.

Some forum members recommend the oil finishes, including the burnished ones, where heat from rubbing or polishing helps to set the oil and some of those may be food safe, but I have no experience with them. Likewise most synthetic varnishes are unknown to me. Polyurethanes can give excellent and hard wearing finishes but are difficult to repair if they are damaged.

The finishes that I love are shellac finishes. Shellac can be French Polished, but it can also be brushed on with a fine hair laquer brush (I can recommend suppliers). Once set and hardened (with time - a couple of weeks) it is remarkably resistant to spills and hard treatment and most scratches etc. and can be easily fixed with some more shellac or a simple polish reviver. I have an antique dining table that is shellac finished and has survived over 150 years of hard use. It still looks good and in fact the accumulation of wear and blemishes give it a lovely patina that adds to it. When I repair antique finishes I always use shellac.

The owner of these forums, UBEAUT finishes, sells shellac (I have no financial or other affiliation, this is just for your information) including a modified one called hard shellac that, once set, is resistant to water, heat and most other damage. You can brush it on. I think it is food safe, but the best person to ask is Neil, the owner of that firm.

Good luck,

[natiscakes]

361466361467
ok two pictures of the table and damage on one of the chairs.
They are still on the trailer at my dad's house. I think he just wants to hook up the trailer and dump it all on my front yard!!! lol
:D

[Master Splinter]

You will probably need to re-stain them after stripping - my guess is that they are coated with a tinted varnish as they look to be a light timber underneath.

There are essentially three re-coat options - a polyurethane varnish, a solvent based varnish, or a wax/oil finish.

Poly will look really good for 4-5-6-7 years, then it will start looking shabby and nothing will really make it look nice again, short of stripping back and refinishing. Solvent based varnish (the one that I use is actually automotive acrylic clear) can look good for 3-4-5 years, then start looking shabby... but a quick scuff sand and respray and it's as good as new again. Oils - look good for maybe six months to a year and then they start looking worse for wear - but a quick wipe over with more oil and they look like new again.

Personally, I like oil finishes, but whatever you decide on, test it first on say the underside of the table to see if you like the effect before hitting all the stripped and sanded bits!

[natiscakes]

You will probably need to re-stain them after stripping - my guess is that they are coated with a tinted varnish as they look to be a light timber underneath.

There are essentially three re-coat options - a polyurethane varnish, a solvent based varnish, or a wax/oil finish.

Poly will look really good for 4-5-6-7 years, then it will start looking shabby and nothing will really make it look nice again, short of stripping back and refinishing. Solvent based varnish (the one that I use is actually automotive acrylic clear) can look good for 3-4-5 years, then start looking shabby... but a quick scuff sand and respray and it's as good as new again. Oils - look good for maybe six months to a year and then they start looking worse for wear - but a quick wipe over with more oil and they look like new again.

Personally, I like oil finishes, but whatever you decide on, test it first on say the underside of the table to see if you like the effect before hitting all the stripped and sanded bits!

Thanks again Master Splinter.
I actually bought a stained varnish, but I may still go for an oil finish. I have had two people recommend it already, and it sounds like the easiest to keep it looking nice in the long term :)

[Master Splinter]

When staining, some timbers (especially softwoods) can go blotchy (the stain doesn't apply evenly)

http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/article/avoid-color-mistakes-and-learn-how-to-fix-a-blotchy-stain.aspx

[Xanthorrhoeas]

You have certainly bought yourself some work there:oo:! I agree with Master Splinter - they appear to be a tinted, probably pigmented, probably synthetic varnish. Probably sprayed on and not very expertly at that.

It looks like you will need the paint stripper after all. Do be careful with the curved backs to the chairs because sometimes they can be veneered plywood panels that look like solid timber because the varnish disguises their construction. If they are, the veneer can be paper thin.

Once you clean them off, AS MS says, test your stains and finishes somewhere hidden (like under the table) before you go for it. They will look much better with a smooth, clean finish:).

Good luck.