Bright colourful stains.... Which wood is best?

[Evanism]

G'day moochers,

I've a new project coming up, of reasonable size, that will need me either painting or staining a very large number of small parts for kids toys.

Some time ago I asked about how "they" make the coloured kids blocks in $2 shops and BigW...it's obviously paint, but it sticks like hell. We (The Collective) decided it was electrostatically applied. Finding that gear or someone to do it was entirely prohibitive in costs...those I did talk to wanted very big bux.

So, here I sit, having a nice strong espresso to fire up the neurones and thinking....What timber do I use that's hard, that takes a kid-colour stain and where do I get such stuff.

I've seen Carrolls (CWS) and HW4CF's little pots of super mega stains. Nice, but I need more....all the usual primary colours and a few others, perhaps like the colours Lego uses...red, green, blue, black, yellow, orange....bright silly colours.

Any ideas?

[Big Shed]

Wood: Silver Ash

Colour:

http://www.ubeaut.com.au/dye.html

[Evanism]

Anyone know if they sell them bigger than 60ml?

I was going to write, but the Ubeaut page says he's too busy.

These are the pots I was referring to from Carrolls.

[Robson Valley]

From species to species, wood anatomy changes and so does wood chemistry, but to a lesser extent.
As a post-graduate student, I made less than 2,000 microscope slides to investigate the success and
failure of grafting, principally in fruit trees of commercial value.

In the general case, woods which are very fine grained, no obvious early wood vessels (aka pores) and
little annual transition from late wood to early wood of the next spring stained most easily. In other words,
those with the most featureless anatomy were best.

[AlexS]

The small pots of U-beaut stain will go a long way when you dilute them.

Also, you can use food colouring.

[Evanism]

Mr Ubeaut wrote back super pronto.

I'll definitely give the 60ml pots a go.

[MinuetTas]

Hi, just browsing through. If you are colouring blocks for children then maybe a non toxic dye would be best. Edicol dyes have brilliant colours and will colour just about anything.
cheers
Min

[elderly]

The U-beaut stains are non toxic and great value.

[Euge]

In the general case, woods which are very fine grained, no obvious early wood vessels (aka pores) and
little annual transition from late wood to early wood of the next spring stained most easily. In other words,
those with the most featureless anatomy were best.

In keeping with the above suggestion perhaps kauri (Agathis sp.) may be suitable .... no obvious grain, easily worked by hand and mechnical tools, pale in colur, paints glues, dyes eaily and evenly (for Evanism). My suggestion.

Contact me Evan if you need some.

Non toxic wood and dyes are vital for childrens toys. They WILL be put into mouths.

Euge

[Evanism]

Absolutely. Fear and liability override all decisions front front to end these days.

I'd sort of given up on this, but I'm still keen to know as painting multi-sided objects is still a problem for me.

Obviously, the bigger commercial organisations do things in giant batches and specialised drying machinery... but then again, Ive seen first hand some dreadfully primitive setups. These simple operations solve the problem, but I cant :(

[ubeaut]

If you do decide to use dye no matter what sort they need to be completely sealed with shellac or polyurethane or a number of coats of danish oil, etc.

Oils and waxes won't seal them into the timber and they must be sealed in or you will be colouring the children, carpets, clothing, etc as they play with their toys.

[AngelaPetruzzi]

Liability issues are always a concern. There is not muchpoint in using a food safe colour to then use a sealer over it that isn’t food safe.

As Neil mentions, penetrating oils & waxes will not sealwater based dyes as there is nothing forthe oil/wax to connect to. However if one was to use a natural penetratingstain such as the Kaldet furniture stain, this can then be sealed with theKunos which not only traps the pigments into the surface but it is alsocertified food and toy safe. The blocks, depending on the size can be dippedand excess oil removed. The only issue with the actual colour is that the finerthe sanding grit, the less pigment penetration resulting in a lighter colour.Due to the nature of the materials, there is also a limit to the whole colourrange spectrum....but always good to make some test samples first.

[mike100jobstodo]

What an interesting you have there. If you are using soft woods, then they have an uneven grain so you may have problem staining them. I heard that you can use a special pre-stain conditioner to help give this type of foods an even base though. If you are using hard woods, then they have a more even grain. So it’ll be easier to stain. But you may need to apply a few coats of to achieve the colour you want.

There are many options you can use to achieve colourful stains for kids toys. Because they are for kids, you would want the paints to be as non-toxic as possible. Some popular examples are milk paint (available from Amazon), anna sova food paint, latex enamel and flour paint. I’ve stumbled upon a really interesting article on preparing kids toys by painting/staining them.

The link to the article is as below:
http://www.paintwoodentoys.com/

Hope you enjoy reading it. Good luck in your project!

[Tahlee]

If you do decide to use dye no matter what sort they need to be completely sealed with shellac or polyurethane or a number of coats of danish oil, etc.

Oils and waxes won't seal them into the timber and they must be sealed in or you will be colouring the children, carpets, clothing, etc as they play with their toys.

I recently posted about dye on toys and the dye coming off if any moisture was put on them (read spittle)
A number of folk suggested the Ubeaut dyes as the solution ... but as can be read above those dyes need a sealant .... my concern is not the food safe dye but the sealant

Shellac is diluted with methylated spirit .... definitely not a safe mix for kids to chew on ... polyurethane would also be in that guild ... I don't know if danish oil is ok either

Has the world moved on since the above posts in finding the safe solution please?

Rob

[DiRob]

CWS kid friendly stains can be mixed to change the colour and watered down to the colour you need. They are only small pots but if you use wisely they go a long way. They have to be sealed or they deteriorate.

[BobL]

Shellac is diluted with methylated spirit .... definitely not a safe mix for kids to chew on ... polyurethane would also be in that guild ... I don't know if danish oil is ok either


Shellac dialysed with meths is safe. The meths evaporates and what's left is in fact edible.

Heres what one MSDS says about Shellac


Acute Effects: Swallowed: Data suggests that the product should be considered as non toxic byingestion.



Not classified as hazardous according to NOHSC Australia.

[Christos]

....Shellac is diluted with methylated spirit .... definitely not a safe mix for kids to chew on .......

The methylated sprit should evaporates leaving the Shellac.


..... I don't know if danish oil is ok either....

If you check the contains of the danish oil you may find that most have a mix of some type of poly as well as dryers and of course the oil(linseed or tung as an example).

The main point is that once dried the agent used for drying evaporates off and the product left is what seals the wood.

[Xanthorrhoeas]

Shellac is diluted with methylated spirit .... definitely not a safe mix for kids to chew on ...

Rob

Rob, all the metho evaporates once the shellac has set, so there is no issue there. Also, metho is not metho anymore - it no longer contains the poisonous methyl alcohol - but is really straight ethyl alcohol (as in beer, wine, spirits) plus a bittering agent (and often some water). Definitely not poisonous even to drink - just unpleasant (to drink). But there is none of the metho left once the shellac dries/sets. Ubeaut Hard Shellac would be the way to go. Once it is cross-linked (about 3 weeks after application) it is resistant to water and heat. It is NOT waterproof - if the item is left sopping wet (think a ring of water left from condensation on a cold glass on a coaster) the finish still deteriorates (goes milky) in my experience. But a bit of child lick soon dries so shouldn't cause a problem.

David

[Tahlee]

Thanks BobL,et al

I see what you mean about the evaporation ... that makes sense.

I've seen kids gnaw on blocks before .... it's not the shellac that I now worry about, its the dye running stains once the shellac is penetrated.

Anyway .... went to the paint shop today and they stock water based acrylic suitable for toys.... a yellow painted kid's toy train is even on the spray can label..... so that's what I have now used.

https://www.bunnings.com.au/white-knight-310g-gloss-clear-squirts_p1560611

I didn't use a primer ... so its taking a few coats to get a deep colour finish.

Thanks for the advice .... but the spray can water based acrylic paint is the option I have now gone for.
Regards

Rob