An outsiders view of The Lucky Country

[Grumpy John]

I pulled this from Facebook, I don't think there's any copyright infringement.

Australia: an American's view

Interesting set of observations from a visitor from the other side of the Pacific.'Value what you have and don't give it away.' There's a lot to admire about Australia, especially if you're a visiting American, says David Mason. More often than you might expect, Australian friends patiently listening to me enthuse about their country have said, ''We need outsiders like you to remind us what we have.'' So here it is - a small presumptuous list of what one foreigner admires in Oz.

1... Health care. I know the controversies, but basic national health care is a gift. In America, medical expenses are a leading cause of bankruptcy. The drug companies dominate politics and advertising.
Obama is being crucified for taking halting baby steps towards sanity. You can't turn on the telly without hours of drug advertisements - something I have never yet seen here. And your emphasis on prevention - making cigarettes less accessible, for one - is a model.


2... Food. Yes, we have great food in America too, especially in the big cities.
But your bread is less sweet, your lamb is cheaper, and your supermarket vegetables and fruits are fresher than ours.
Too often in my country an apple is a ball of pulp as big as your face.
The dainty Pink Lady apples of Oz are the juiciest I've had. And don't get me started on coffee.
In American small towns it tastes like water flavoured with burnt dirt, but the smallest shop in the smallest town in Oz can make a first-rate latte.
I love your ubiquitous bakeries, your hot-cross buns. Shall I go on?


3... Language. How do you do it?
The rhyming slang and Aboriginal place names like magic spells.
Words that seem vaguely English yet also resemble an argot from another planet.
I love the way institutional names get turned into diminutives - Vinnie's and Salvos - and absolutely nothing's sacred.
Everything's an opportunity for word games and everyone's a nickname.
Lingo makes the world go round.
It's the spontaneous wit of the people that tickles me most.
Late one night at a barbie my new mate Suds remarked, ''Nothing's the same since 24-7.'' Amen.


4... Free-to-air TV. In Oz, you buy a TV, plug it in and watch some of the best programming I've ever seen - uncensored.
In America, you can't get diddly-squat without paying a cable or satellite company heavy fees.
In Oz a few channels make it hard to choose.
In America, you've got 400 channels and nothing to watch.


5... Small shops. Outside the big cities in America corporations have nearly erased them.
Identical malls with identical restaurants serving inferior food.
Except for geography, it's hard to tell one American town from another.
The ''take-away'' culture here is wonderful.
Human encounters are real - stirring happens, stories get told.
The curries are to die for. And you don't have to tip!


6... Free camping. We used to have this too, and I guess it's still free when you backpack miles away from the roads.
But I love the fact that in Oz everyone owns the shore and in many places you can pull up a camper van and stare at the sea for weeks.
I love the ''primitive'' and independent campgrounds, the life out of doors.
The few idiots who leave their stubbies and rubbish behind in these pristine places ought to be transported in chains.


7... Religion. In America, it's everywhere - especially where it's not supposed to be, like politics.
I imagine you have your Pharisees too, making a big public show of devotion, but I have yet to meet one here.


8... Roads. Peak hour aside, I've found travel on your roads pure heaven.
My country's ''freeways'' are crowded, crumbling, insanely knotted with looping overpasses - it's like racing homicidal maniacs on fraying spaghetti.
I've taken the Hume without stress, and I love the Princes Highway when it's two lanes.
Ninety minutes south of Bateman's Bay I was sorry to see one billboard for a McDonald's.
It's blocking a lovely paddock view. Someone should remove it.


9... Real multiculturalism. I know there are tensions, just like anywhere else, but I love the distinctiveness of your communities and the way you publicly acknowledge the Aboriginal past.
Recently, too, I spent quality time with Melbourne Greeks, and was gratified both by their devotion to their own great language and culture and their openness to an Afghan lunch.


10. Fewer guns. You had Port Arthur in 1996 and got real in response. America replicates such massacres several times a year and nothing changes.
Why?
Our religion of individual rights makes the good of the community an impossible dream.
Instead of mateship we have ''It's mine and nobody else's''.
We talk a great game about freedom, but too often live in fear.
There's more to say - your kaleidoscopic birds, your perfumed bush in springtime, your vast beaches.
These are just a few blessings that make Australia a rarity.
Of course, it's not paradise - nowhere is - but I love it here.
No need to wave flags like Americans and add to the world's windiness.
Just value what you have and don't give it away.


David Mason is a US writer and professor, and poet laureate of Colorado.

[Larks]

Thanks for posting that, it'd be well for it to be bumped up on a daily basis

[chambezio]

What a great piece.
Its too easy for us to sit back and grizzle about stuff, but this report is like a kick in the tail to make us look around and to re-appreciate our homeland

[Sawdust Maker]

I like it
trouble is our malls are all starting to look the same

but this comment I thought great

"Ninety minutes south of Bateman's Bay I was sorry to see one billboard for a McDonald's.
It's blocking a lovely paddock view. Someone should remove it."

[Chesand]

You do not have to travel very far to realise that we have the best country in the world - it is a pity that more do not appreciate it.

[wheelinround]

I loved who ever wrote this sense of poking the tongue at Australian's http://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net/images/smilies/sad/sneaktongue.gif


I pulled this from Facebook, I don't think there's any copyright infringement.

Australia: an American's view

Interesting set of observations from a visitor from the other side of the Pacific.'Value what you have and don't give it away.' There's a lot to admire about Australia, especially if you're a visiting American, says David Mason. More often than you might expect, Australian friends patiently listening to me enthuse about their country have said, ''We need outsiders like you to remind us what we have.'' So here it is - a small presumptuous list of what one foreigner admires in Oz.

1... Health care. I know the controversies, but basic national health care is a gift. In America, medical expenses are a leading cause of bankruptcy. The drug companies dominate politics and advertising.
Obama is being crucified for taking halting baby steps towards sanity. You can't turn on the telly without hours of drug advertisements - something I have never yet seen here. And your emphasis on prevention - making cigarettes less accessible, for one - is a model.
I guess he didn't watch much TV or changed channel often during commercials on Free To Air TV during a decent nights viewing we get runs of drug advertising of all sorts even those for Police shows arresting drug cartels.

2... Food. Yes, we have great food in America too, especially in the big cities.
But your bread is less sweet, your lamb is cheaper, and your supermarket vegetables and fruits are fresher than ours.
Too often in my country an apple is a ball of pulp as big as your face.
The dainty Pink Lady apples of Oz are the juiciest I've had. And don't get me started on coffee.
In American small towns it tastes like water flavoured with burnt dirt, but the smallest shop in the smallest town in Oz can make a first-rate latte.
I love your ubiquitous bakeries, your hot-cross buns. Shall I go on?

RRFLMAO yep a Macca's on every corner a KFC across the road, Burger King, Red Rooster
http://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net/images/smilies/standard/confused.gif Yep confused is he moaning about the bread?
Obviously not here during a drought when Lamb is like Diamond's you buy the mistress. Where cheap cuts are no longer cheap. But they are possibly not on a general wage as a factory worker either.
Yes Fruit well often we get imports from USA and other countries as our farmers leave the industry in droves OR the farrns taken over by USA and Asian buyers and conglomerates.
Not been to the likes of Flemington in Sydney where they can be cold stored for months.
It is good though we do not over intoxicate ours with chemicals sold to us by USA.
Is he saying our Pink ladies are small? http://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net/images/smilies/tongue.gif
Knows bugger all about our coffee Australia doesn't grow its own in vast quantities its mainly imported.... from US owned growers obviously he drank Macca's coffee.
LOL seriously this person has no friggin idea a latte is made with steamed milk not water f USA milk is that bad compared to Australia's pasteurised homogenised watered down crap they need to drink milk straight from the cow. http://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net/images/smilies/standard/biggrin.gif
3... Language. How do you do it?
The rhyming slang and Aboriginal place names like magic spells.
Words that seem vaguely English yet also resemble an argot from another planet.
I love the way institutional names get turned into diminutives - Vinnie's and Salvos - and absolutely nothing's sacred.
Everything's an opportunity for word games and everyone's a nickname.
Lingo makes the world go round.
It's the spontaneous wit of the people that tickles me most.
Late one night at a barbie my new mate Suds remarked, ''Nothing's the same since 24-7.'' Amen.
Did they get called a Yank and other things while here?
Gee's never been to the UK and heard ryhming slang which was round long before Lt Cook sighted the main land. He should sit down and watch Mary Poppin's with Dick Van Dyke LOL


4... Free-to-air TV. In Oz, you buy a TV, plug it in and watch some of the best programming I've ever seen - uncensored.
In America, you can't get diddly-squat without paying a cable or satellite company heavy fees.
In Oz a few channels make it hard to choose.
In America, you've got 400 channels and nothing to watch.
Yes we get such as Ellen Degenerate, Days of our Drearies, Dr Phil, CSI X 3 varieties, Dexter,and much much more.
Insurmountable TV shows on such as Voice, MKR, etc etc all designed by USA. Then the TV stations which are stations owned by USA and governed by them and what they show who just happen to have stakes in pay TV also. Free to Air sphooping channel which sell USA exercise equipment.


5... Small shops. Outside the big cities in America corporations have nearly erased them.
Identical malls with identical restaurants serving inferior food.
Except for geography, it's hard to tell one American town from another.
The ''take-away'' culture here is wonderful.
Human encounters are real - stirring happens, stories get told.
The curries are to die for. And you don't have to tip!
Give the USA corporate s time they are having trouble sneaking in the back doors of politicians and filling their pockets its happening slowly we don't have a Mexico so we are shipping in other cheap labor from OS.


6... Free camping. We used to have this too, and I guess it's still free when you backpack miles away from the roads.
But I love the fact that in Oz everyone owns the shore and in many places you can pull up a camper van and stare at the sea for weeks.
I love the ''primitive'' and independent campgrounds, the life out of doors.
The few idiots who leave their stubbies and rubbish behind in these pristine places ought to be transported in chains.
Free Camping must have been camping on some poor buggers front lawn well away from the homestead gee's even I know some driveways which are small at 2k's long.
Typical large area councils with small workforce didn't get round to collect the fee's.
Will the USA please take them back?

7... Religion. In America, it's everywhere - especially where it's not supposed to be, like politics.
I imagine you have your Pharisees too, making a big public show of devotion, but I have yet to meet one here.
They banned soap box preachers in the Domain upset the Government employee's of State politics for NSW while they had luch in the park or watching out the windows.
I though he said he'd seen TV must have still been out on Sunday morning after Saturday night? It would have flt like USA home week.

8... Roads. Peak hour aside, I've found travel on your roads pure heaven.
My country's ''freeways'' are crowded, crumbling, insanely knotted with looping overpasses - it's like racing homicidal maniacs on fraying spaghetti.
I've taken the Hume without stress, and I love the Princes Highway when it's two lanes.
Ninety minutes south of Bateman's Bay I was sorry to see one billboard for a McDonald's.
It's blocking a lovely paddock view. Someone should remove it.
I suppose when NSW has a population of one small country town of USA whie the whole of Australia doesn't match even 1/2 olf some of USA cities.
AS for the state of road spaghetti if you only traveled back roads no wonder you didn't see any its there just got to know where to look.
As for the sign please by all means pack it up and take it home with you.


9... Real multiculturalism. I know there are tensions, just like anywhere else, but I love the distinctiveness of your communities and the way you publicly acknowledge the Aboriginal past.
Recently, too, I spent quality time with Melbourne Greeks, and was gratified both by their devotion to their own great language and culture and their openness to an Afghan lunch.
I told you he's tongue in cheek or http://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net/images/smilies/sad/sneaktongue.gif
Yes Greeks in Melb aren't bad
Afgan food is tops my first tasting was at school when one of the guys from Lebanon's mum gave me a try.


10. Fewer guns. You had Port Arthur in 1996 and got real in response. America replicates such massacres several times a year and nothing changes.
Why?
Our religion of individual rights makes the good of the community an impossible dream.
Instead of mateship we have ''It's mine and nobody else's''.
We talk a great game about freedom, but too often live in fear.
There's more to say - your kaleidoscopic birds, your perfumed bush in springtime, your vast beaches.
These are just a few blessings that make Australia a rarity.
Of course, it's not paradise - nowhere is - but I love it here. This is true corporate USA seems to want to stuff every paridise up.
No need to wave flags like Americans and add to the world's windiness.
Just value what you have and don't give it away. Well thats fine but lets stop USA rapping and plundering though the back door with threats and fear tactics.
Big business and sales its all about the money.
At last light at the end of the trip.



David Mason is a US writer and professor, and poet laureate of Colorado.

[Grumpy John]

Seeing as my other post has been deleted I'll rephrase. If you can't say anything nice - don't say anything.

[snowyskiesau]

Deleted? Nothing offensive in that post.

[Grumpy John]

The previous one was deleted. I've sent a PM to mods asking why.

[Kuffy]

Its true that Australia is so awesome. I just returned home from a 7week stay in America, and my god I'm glad to be back home where the roads are not falling apart due to non-existant maintenance...travelling in the bay area of cali, thru Phoenix and also in Wisconsin for 7weeks, I saw very little in the way of current roadworks. Its also good to come back and get some decent Bakers Delight white bread. All of the bread I tried in the states is stale 30mins after baking :)

Our taxes are some of the highest in the world, and at times it seems that they are too high with little gained in return, but after seeing the same potholes in the same roads in the USA year after year makes me realise that perhaps the tax money is being put to good use.

Australia rocks!

[jhovel]

"Our taxes are amongst the highest in the world" - where did you look? Brunei or Kuwait? We have some the lower taxes in the Western world. Most of Europe is higher and the Baltic countries nearly double ours. Interestingly, in Europe, the countries with the highest taxes are the 'happiest'. The reason is that their governments can afford to finance health, education, infrastructure and aged care comfortably, whereas we are constantly hearing about cuts needing to be made because we haven't got the money (mostly balmed on the previous government of course).
GST in Germany is 19% - and not limited. Everything you buy has GST. People on low income don;t pay any income tax. That way, poor people who can afford to buy less pay less tax and rich people who buy lots pay lots of tax - not on the money they make but on the moneyu they spend.

I agree with the poet professor's views of OZ (having lived here for 43 years after migrating (and travelling abroad lots since). We are bloody lucky!

One of the biggest differencences I noted a long time ago is that in Germany (and much of Europe) NOTHING is allowed, unless it;s permitted by law - here EVERYTHING is allowed unless forbidden by law. Think about it. It's a BIG difference. People are much more open-minded as a result. Or put another way, the people here LIVE real freedom while protecting their community. In Germany the law control everything while ALLOWING people the freedom it sees fit for them not to abuse (too much).....

I love this place! and wouldn't live anywhere else for quids....

[Darklord]

Seeing as my other post has been deleted I'll rephrase. If you can't say anything nice - don't say anything.

I don't post much on the forums and usually only do when someone or something gets up my nose.

I happened to see Grumpy's "post earlier this-arvo, before it was deleted and would like to give him a pat on the back. I wholeheartedly agree with what he said. Some people just don't know when they are well off. Some just like the stir the pot.

Three cheers for Grumpy John's post.

Darky

[FenceFurniture]

I loved who ever wrote this sense of poking the tongue at Australian's http://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net/images/smilies/sad/sneaktongue.gif
I guess he didn't watch much TV or changed channel often during commercials on Free To Air TV during a decent nights viewing we get runs of drug advertising of all sorts even those for Police shows arresting drug cartels.

RRFLMAO yep a Macca's on every corner a KFC across the road, Burger King, Red Rooster
http://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net/images/smilies/standard/confused.gif Yep confused is he moaning about the bread?
Obviously not here during a drought when Lamb is like Diamond's you buy the mistress. Where cheap cuts are no longer cheap. But they are possibly not on a general wage as a factory worker either.
Yes Fruit well often we get imports from USA and other countries as our farmers leave the industry in droves OR the farrns taken over by USA and Asian buyers and conglomerates.
Not been to the likes of Flemington in Sydney where they can be cold stored for months.
It is good though we do not over intoxicate ours with chemicals sold to us by USA.
Is he saying our Pink ladies are small? http://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net/images/smilies/tongue.gif
Knows bugger all about our coffee Australia doesn't grow its own in vast quantities its mainly imported.... from US owned growers obviously he drank Macca's coffee.
LOL seriously this person has no friggin idea a latte is made with steamed milk not water f USA milk is that bad compared to Australia's pasteurised homogenised watered down crap they need to drink milk straight from the cow. http://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net/images/smilies/standard/biggrin.gif




etc
etc
etc
etc
etc
etcUp until this morning I thought we did live in by far the best place in the world - no contest.

However, after reading this particular post I now realise how thoroughly misguided I've been for half a century, and so I'm going to apply for citizenship in North Korea. I'm told that place really is Paradise - they even execute you for free if you speak out of turn. I mean - how good is that? And they won't waste precious timber on my coffin - no sirree, just bundle me up and drop me in a ditch with a sprinkle of lime. Very considerate of the environment and woodworkers resources.

I'll send yez a postcard (won't be an electronic one though, for obvious reasons).



Or not.



As Fletty says "If you can't see the bright side then polish the dull side". Best get the Brasso out and rub like buggery, as both sides would appear to be dull. :doh:

[Grumpy John]

FenceFurniture is an OZ writer and professor, and poet laureate of Katoomba. :q

[wheelinround]

John if your deleted post was pointed at my take on what the Prof had written sorry I seem to have upset you and NO I didn't see your post.

America I do not care for never wish to go there nothing there draws my attention well enough.
I have had my fill of America & American's at first hand during my driving years.
knew some who immigrated here and friends, know Aussies who lived in USA.
The Aussies who have lived there all can't wait to get back here sadly some can't leave US behind they want to bring all it has to offer here.

I also immigrated here with my parents who dragged me kicking and screaming away from friends and relations much the same as many USA citizens kids I suppose. I came to love this country and all its wonders, its freedom and its diverse culture/s and I have tasted many from original inhabitants through from being a kid during my working years and still.

I have lived in a time and suburb when and where bikies took over the street and had 4 days of freedom due to lack of Police 3 cops was all that could muster to prevent what took place. Some 200+ bikies, brawling, rapping, shooting, assaulting general public. Mid 60's

I have seen and lived where one nationality has forced others out for their own greed and need without as much as a head turn from authorities because of racial discrimination threats. That was in the late 60's I have seen it 3 time since then my own in-laws had to sell up due to local council who refused to halt what has proved to be another lie and use of racial discrimination to gain what was developed.

My comments were not all tongue in cheek as many are fact.
Sadly all to often Australia has sold itself far to cheap to USA and we will suffer in the long run.

[corbs]

I think you need to leave Australia to truly appreciate how good it is.

[FenceFurniture]

I think you need to leave Australia to truly appreciate how good it is.Or:
"I think you need to leave Australia."

[Big Shed]

John if your deleted post was pointed at my take on what the Prof had written sorry I seem to have upset you and NO I didn't see your post.

America I do not care for never wish to go there nothing there draws my attention well enough.
I have had my fill of America & American's at first hand during my driving years.
knew some who immigrated here and friends, know Aussies who lived in USA.
The Aussies who have lived there all can't wait to get back here sadly some can't leave US behind they want to bring all it has to offer here.

I also immigrated here with my parents who dragged me kicking and screaming away from friends and relations much the same as many USA citizens kids I suppose. I came to love this country and all its wonders, its freedom and its diverse culture/s and I have tasted many from original inhabitants through from being a kid during my working years and still.

I have lived in a time and suburb when and where bikies took over the street and had 4 days of freedom due to lack of Police 3 cops was all that could muster to prevent what took place. Some 200+ bikies, brawling, rapping, shooting, assaulting general public. Mid 60's

I have seen and lived where one nationality has forced others out for their own greed and need without as much as a head turn from authorities because of racial discrimination threats. That was in the late 60's I have seen it 3 time since then my own in-laws had to sell up due to local council who refused to halt what has proved to be another lie and use of racial discrimination to gain what was developed.

My comments were not all tongue in cheek as many are fact.
Sadly all to often Australia has sold itself far to cheap to USA and we will suffer in the long run.

For someone who has never visited the USA you seem to be very willing to judge Americans and their way of life Ray.

You apparently base this on your experience of driving around American tourists.

If I were to base my opinion of Australians on the behaviour of (quite a few) Australian tourists in, for instance, Kuta-Bali or Phuket-Thailand or my opinion of Brits on the behaviour of (quite a few) Brits in Benidorm-Spain then my opinion of these 2 nationalities would not be very high.

Sorry, but the American Prof at least based his opinion on personal experience visiting this country, and didn't base his opinion on ill-informed stereotypes.

I also think you need to remember that both your country of birth and your current country of residence owe a lot to those very same Americans you seem to despise so much.

[wheelinround]

I think you need to leave Australia to truly appreciate how good it is.

Or come from somewhere else

[wheelinround]

For someone who has never visited the USA you seem to be very willing to judge Americans and their way of life Ray.

You apparently base this on your experience of driving around American tourists.

If I were to base my opinion of Australians on the behaviour of (quite a few) Australian tourists in, for instance, Kuta-Bali or Phuket-Thailand or my opinion of Brits on the behaviour of (quite a few) Brits in Benidorm-Spain then my opinion of these 2 nationalities would not be very high.

Sorry, but the American Prof at least based his opinion on personal experience visiting this country, and didn't base his opinion on ill-informed stereotypes.

I also think you need to remember that both your country of birth and your current country of residence owe a lot to those very same Americans you seem to despise so much.

Yes and no Fred the majority were tourists but all were travel agents most of who the Australian Governments (read tax payers) paid to come here and enjoy the short 2 weeks traveling far and wide. Then there are those whom I have known as I said personally. As you have said about me not living there, I like wise have said to those Aussies who wish we lived like they do in the USA. One thing I learnt from the travel agents was one I was told " No normal American worker can afford to come to Australia due to the pay system either they live on tips or they get paid piece meal" I was not the only driver who was told this and the owner was also. Makes you wonder who in Government did the research doesn't it??

I see we have gone off track bring in other countries always the way it is so hard to stay on topic and see how others see it.

I agree the Prof did base his experience on his time here just as I have based my experience on how I have seen Australia embrace what they perceive America to be like whether they have lived there or not.

I have seen such as you mention of bad behaviour from all sorts here when its our own we seem to stand back and say "Its the Aussie way its accepted and expected"

I would say I have lived in a number of environments and area's lived with a variety of families mostly Aussies, worked with far more ethnic types male and female than I can recall and seen a great deal as well as experienced Australian life and culture yet I am still after all an Englishman I can never become a true Australian its not possible.:p

If Australian's accept the true Australian's those here long before any European walked upon its shore or should that be the other way around should they accept European's and allow them to integrate

[FenceFurniture]

Yes and no Fred the majority were tourists but all were travel agents most of who the Australian Governments (read tax payers) paid to come here and enjoy the short 2 weeks traveling far and wide. Then there are those whom I have known as I said personally. As you have said about me not living there, I like wise have said to those Aussies who wish we lived like they do in the USA. One thing I learnt from the travel agents was one I was told " No normal American worker can afford to come to Australia due to the pay system either they live on tips or they get paid piece meal" I was not the only driver who was told this and the owner was also. Makes you wonder who in Government did the research doesn't it??

I see we have gone off track bring in other countries always the way it is so hard to stay on topic and see how others see it. I think we are completely on topic, actually. The Prof was saying we don't know how lucky we are, and we are discussing that. Clearly some of us don't, in fact, know how lucky we are.

I agree the Prof did base his experience on his time here just as I have based my experience on how I have seen Australia embrace what they perceive America to be like whether they have lived there or not.

I would say I have lived in a number of environments and area's lived with a variety of families mostly Aussies, worked with far more ethnic types male and female than I can recall and seen a great deal as well as experienced Australian life and cultureSo does this indicate that you haven't been outside Australia as an adult?



....yet I am still after all an Englishman I can never become a true Australian its not possible.:pBeing Australian in the Third Millenium is not about skin colour or how long our ancestors have been here for. It's a state of mind. Take Bushmiller for example: a born and bred Londoner who emigrated here when he was approx late 20s. A finer example of living the Australian spirit would be very difficult to find. In fact the only thing that gives him away is the residual London accent (and his second passport, I suppose :U).

[Christos]

.... A finer example of living the Australian spirit would be very difficult to find. In fact the only thing that gives him away is the residual London accent (and his second passport, I suppose :U).


This is going to go way off topic so please be warned.

Personally I am not aware of any other country that has two passport systems.

I have often wondered if I could get a temporary passport for the country that I am visiting so that I can go into the local queue at immigration just to get through customs quicker. :U

[artme]

An interesting view by our American friend.

I seems it was more inspired by what he did not like about the USA. Nothing wrong with that. We can all find things we don't like about where we live.

I have been lucky enough to have traveled over a reasonable area of this earth so here are some observations of my own.

We are lucky to live in Australia!!

In comparison with most countries we have a good health system. Perhaps some adjustments need to be made, but
on the whole it works well for most of us - the vast, vast majority of us. When in the States one time Ana had to go to the doctor.$US 65!!!
In Chile things are different as they too have a great health system. A visit to a hospital there cost us the paltry sum of $AU 10 because we were foreigners!!
And, BTW, the standard of care was excellent. Brazil, where I have spent much time, is a health care nightmare. Like America you need the dollars to get even
satisfactory treatment, even though the general standard of medicine is very good.

We do have governments and judiciaries that are accountable. Witness the number of politicians and judges that have experienced the force of the law.
You may think more should go this way, as do I, but My experience and reading shows that we are streets ahead of many places in the world.

As for food, well I guess it's a matter of taste. Yes, pun intended!! I did not enjoy any good steak in the US as it was all grain fed. I could not find a good coffee
of any sort in the US. The rest of the food was fine. In Brazil you can get relly good food if you look and pay. Some of their restaurants serve glorious food. For
ordinary person earning a minimum salary in Brazil getting really good food regularly is a struggle. Food in Chile is great and the best steak, by far, that I have ever
eaten is in Argentina. Food in Europe tends to be expensive but of good quality. NZ tucker is tops as is Canadian.

As for the great outdoors we are indeed lucky. One of the great parts of Australian life has always been the ability for people to find affordable camp and caravan sites
right next to the beach! Unfortunately this privilege is being eroded by greedy developers and compliant councils. I always feel safe in this country, in NZ, Europe and Chile.
I always felt reasonably safe in the USA and Canada. In so much of Brazil and Argentina one always has to be on guard.

Australia is often decried for becoming a "Nanny State". Well, let me tell you from experience that the safety laws, rules and regulations throughout this country are probably
second to none. When you witness and experience some of the things I have in other parts of the world you should be more than thankful that we are the way we are. My
wife's cousin's grandaughter - aged just 16 months- drowned in a pool on new year's eve due to an unfenced pool as there are no laws anywhere in Brazil requiring pool be fenced.
How precious is a child in any part of the world???

As for the behaviour of people when a way from home I've seen bad example s from all over the world. On a couple of cruises the worst examples were from Germans and Americans.
However I also witnessed bad behaviour from Australians, French, Brits, Greeks and Brazilians. No one nationality seems to be immune from this.

We have hosted over 40 people of different nationalities over the years. All have been envious of our way of life. All have also been mystified by some of our attitudes, such
as our general lack of respect for politicians!:D All have missed their own country and I guess it's a matter of what you grow with or become accustomed to.

I'm glad I live here, Ana is glad she lives here. We both think we are very fortunate.

[wheelinround]

Seems my words have swung round, at no time was I saying I disliked being here actually the opposite. I was pointing out all those USA iconic things he missed, all those facts he didn't follow through on and some tongue in cheek stuff too.

Brett I didn't know it was a prerequisite to have been to USA to have an opinion on some guys comments of his holiday/tour of Australia I don't see anywhere in his comments the length of his stay? I met a USA girl a Uni student taking a gap year before starting work, many years ago she did 6 weeks in Australia and had been to every state travel was by thumb and front suicide seat of many a semi. I see it he was being very tongue in cheek with some if not many of those.

In fact his pointing out about FREE camping makes me wonder how he traversed this great land? he did mention driving some of it, how long was his stay? I know our grey nomads readily spuke free camping spots along their route.

When we go on holiday or when I used to take seniors away back in the 80's to new places they had never been I'd hear often " Oh I'd live here tomorrow" !!!
Some in fact many did move and soon found out the great differences in visiting a place as to living in a place is vastly different.
I honestly was no different I suppose as I had considered often getting out of Sydney metro.
Having lived beach side along the north coast of Newcastle with my Aunt & Uncle often I saw first hand the lifestyle differences, the freedom, the lack of services, the beauty, the close knit community of which I was greatly accepted into. Then moving to Tamworth with my own children for 10 years till they finished high school and due to a Government change we had to move as it killed any hope of employment or future for them we were not the only family to move, when the population went from 35k to 31k in months :o.

I have seen not a lot of Australia mainly the east coast I do not need to travel OS to know how blessed this county is. My sons and their wives must travel OS for holidays, one because its summer time in Croatia where MIL & FIL still own a home, they have done holidays here Hamilton Island, Gold Coast MIL & FIL own a home up the coast just south of Newcastle as well as their Sydney home.. The other to the USA :rolleyes: where DiL shops till she can't shop anymore :? she refuses to pay for the same gear here at Australian prices and she is 6th? generation Aussie she hates holidaying in Australia reckons its to pricey and its not worth the $$$$. :roll: Maybe I should show her this fellows thoughts........nope she refuses to go camping.:doh:

Its great to see so many OS investors wishing to buy up our coastal regions and build massive holiday resorts though :p:no: Ask them for the $$$$$ for infrastructure.



Fred yes USA did much for England and Australia who was part of that British Commonwealth during the war years, UK not long ago paid off their dept to USA of the loan/s.

[Grumpy John]

Wheelin, the problem I have with your initial post is that you not only managed to trash every positive thing the Prof had to say about Australia you managed in some small way to trash Australia. Do you not realise a compliment when you see it, how can you be so negative about so many positive comments?

[Twisted Tenon]

Just bring a bit of perspective to this discussion, it seems from reading Mason's bio (http://www.hcn.org/issues/45.16/colorado-poet-laureate-david-masons-four-year-road-trip?b_start:int=1#body) that he has an Australian wife Cally Conan- Davies (http://www.musepiepress.com/shotglass/cally_conan-davies2.html) . I liked his article when I saw it in The Age (http://www.theage.com.au/comment/put-away-the-flags-and-enjoy-your-country-on-australia-day-20140125-31fm4.html) last Australia Day, but my initial response was similar to wheelinround's. And that is because I have that Australian trait of being a "knocker" and "self depreciation", which you see all around us. I see these traits on these forums all the time.

When I read wheelinround's comments I took them as balance, and see them as valid. This is not in defense of his comments as he's doing ok for him self there. We Australians have a lot to protect and those that have traveled or come from other countries would know that. I was in Hawaii a couple of years ago and was told by a local citizen in a general conversation that, "your government treats its people well". He was of course comparing his own government to ours.

TT

[wheelinround]

I loved who ever wrote this sense of poking the tongue at Australian's http://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net/images/smilies/sad/sneaktongue.gif





Grumpy John
Wheelin, the problem I have with your initial post is that you not only managed to trash every positive thing the Prof had to say about Australia you managed in some small way to trash Australia. Do you not realise a compliment when you see it, how can you be so negative about so many positive comments?



John I have quoted myself above this was typed above my first comment highlighted in Blue so not to be missed. As I have stated it was my view of his view on his tour/holiday.
I seriously could have gone off the rails but it seems that many prefer the USA lifestyle more than our own what ever that maybe for since I landed on these shores Australia and its culture has grown some. It has changed dramatically some for the better and some for the worse. Again if its your view on my take of his then so be it.


Twisted Tenon
Just bring a bit of perspective to this discussion, it seems from reading Mason's bio (http://www.hcn.org/issues/45.16/colorado-poet-laureate-david-masons-four-year-road-trip?b_start:int=1#body) that he has an Australian wife Sally Conan- Davies (http://www.musepiepress.com/shotglass/cally_conan-davies2.html) . I liked his article when I saw it in The Age (http://www.theage.com.au/comment/put-away-the-flags-and-enjoy-your-country-on-australia-day-20140125-31fm4.html) last Australia Day, but my initial response was similar to wheelinround's. And that is because I have that Australian trait of being a "knocker" and "self depreciation", which you see all around us. I see these traits on these forums all the time.

When I read wheelinround's comments I took them as balance, and see them as valid. This is not in defense of his comments as he's doing ok for him self there. We Australians have a lot to protect and those that have traveled or come from other countries would know that. I was in Hawaii a couple of years ago and was told by a local citizen in a general conversation that, "your government treats its people well". He was of course comparing his own government to ours.

TT



TT Thanks for the links I will check them out latter never heard or seen of them before. I also am glad someone else saw it a similar way.

I agree whole hearted with "We Australians have a lot to protect" even though I am not Naturalised but have been here now over 50 years from the age of 5.

I saw in the Prof's comments that in the USA everything has a price sadly all to often Australia although it may sell off its wealth and toil its far to cheap in comparison.

His view of restaurants I found comical, every town & city has its own take on these to the point Katoomba has fought had and long to stop fast food giants encroaching there are many other suburbs (I wish they had fought in the Liverpool district lost count how many of the same in a radius of 7k)

How many Australian food restaurants are there about and I do mean our own food not nationalities from around the globe.?
During the late 90's 2000 period we had chefs and bush tucker hammering us with Roo, Crock, Emu, Bush veg and fruit some restaurants took to it very few are about today mostly in high end tourist centres. Oh and I have and do eat it when we can afford to and get it.

Hamburger, fish n chips we have a plenty although these also have changed due to push for healthier eating the oil not lard or dripping is now used, salt has been pushed aside some and Chicken salt used more.

The worse side is GM food stuffs thank goodness the light got turned on there lets hope we keep that glowing at all times.

Service stations/ garages few and far between refueling or quick stop centres seem the norm now.

I personally do not begrudge my life I do feel sorry for those who begrudge my life of which now because of health and Government laws I have little control over. I fight daily to try change that here at least I can.

[Big Shed]

.........
I agree whole hearted with "We Australians have a lot to protect" even though I am not Naturalised but have been here now over 50 years from the age of 5.



Sorry Ray, shouldn't that read "YOU Australians have a lot to protect"?

If you have lived here in this country for 50 years and have not become an Australian citizen you have no right to talk about "We Australians" because you aren't one.:no:

It does however explain some of the statements you made in your comments in the earlier post.

[Twisted Tenon]

Sorry Ray, shouldn't that read "YOU Australians have a lot to protect"?

If you have lived here in this country for 50 years and have not become an Australian citizen you have no right to talk about "We Australians" because you aren't one.:no:
It does however explain some of the statements you made in your comments in the earlier post.

Fred
This bloke has worked his whole adult life in Australia and presumably paid his fair share of taxes. He has also further contributed by raising more Australian citizens. The issue of Ray's citizenship may be a grey area and I don't know enough of his circumstances to judge his status, however The Australian Government (http://www.citizenship.gov.au/current/)website >Long Term Residents< indicates that Ray may have been automatically naturalised. I am concerned that it seems that the replies to Ray's posts appear to be attacking his right to make these comments, rather than just challenging his thoughts.

TT

[Big Shed]

Fred
This bloke has worked his whole adult life in Australia and presumably paid his fair share of taxes. He has also further contributed by raising more Australian citizens. The issue of Ray's citizenship may be a grey area and I don't know enough of his circumstances to judge his status, however The Australian Government (http://www.citizenship.gov.au/current/)website >Long Term Residents< indicates that Ray may have been automatically naturalised. I am concerned that it seems that the replies to Ray's posts appear to be attacking his right to make these comments, rather than just challenging his thoughts.

TT

TT, I am not attacking his right to make comments, I am questioning his right to call himself an Australian citizen., ie someone entitled to hold an Australian passport. Nor did I raise the question of his citizenship, Ray did.

I have already challenged his thoughts and we appear to be "agreeing to disagree", which is fine by me.

[Twisted Tenon]

TT, I am not attacking his right to make comments, I am questioning his right to call himself an Australian citizen., ie someone entitled to hold an Australian passport. Nor did I raise the question of his citizenship, Ray did.

I have already challenged his thoughts and we appear to be "agreeing to disagree", which is fine by me.

Fair enough Fred, but why are we even going there then? Who cares what Ray calls himself anyway. "Agreeing to disagree" is good. What about Ray's comments, the thrust of which is "We have a lot to lose"? That was his take on that piece by Mason. Mine too when I first read it. There are people who do want to take this from us.

I went back through the blue comments on Ray's first post and did not pick up anything that amounted to Ray despising Yanks. It seemed that he just followed on with Masons comments. Mason had more to say about his own country that Ray did.

TT

[DaveTTC]

John ... loved your original post, sorry to see your thread has gone a place you did not intend

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

[wheelinround]

Sorry Ray, shouldn't that read "YOU Australians have a lot to protect"?

If you have lived here in this country for 50 years and have not become an Australian citizen you have no right to talk about "We Australians" because you aren't one.:no:

It does however explain some of the statements you made in your comments in the earlier post.





I see this as TT has pointed out become an attack on me personally even down to TT's comment and my quote. Thanks Fred :2tsup:

[rustynail]

Sorry Ray, shouldn't that read "YOU Australians have a lot to protect"?

If you have lived here in this country for 50 years and have not become an Australian citizen you have no right to talk about "We Australians" because you aren't one.:no:

It does however explain some of the statements you made in your comments in the earlier post.



How does this bloke keep the job of moderator? This would have to be one of the most bigoted statements I have seen here. If anyone else was to sprook such crap they would be censured:no:

[Grumpy John]

John ... loved your original post, sorry to see your thread has gone a place you did not intend

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

Thanks Dave, I really liked the piece also, Obviously, that's why I posted it. What I did not expect was for someone to (in my opinion) tear apart everything positive that was written. A very negative spin on a very positive piece.
Having visited the "States" several times over 13 odd years I can see where he's coming from.

1. For some reason Americans have real problem with social health care, maybe it's a hangover from the "Commie fearing days". Our system is not perfect, but I don't think too many Aussies have had to declare bankruptcy over their medical bills.

2. I'm not a fussy eater and I definitely am not a gourmet, but while the servings are huge a lot of their food is very bland. Except for a wonderful serve of Alaska Snow Crabs I had somewhere in Texas, and the biggest and tastiest T-bone steak I've ever had. Also in Texas, some small roadhouse in the middle of nowhere.

3. I lost count of the number of beers I was shouted in a bar in Memphis just for saying G'day mate. And whenever the chant Aussie, Aussie, Aussie went out and I responded with Oi, Oi, Oi there would be at least 3 more drinks on the bar in front of me. Off the top of your head can you think of any American sayings.

4. I don't watch much T.V. at all, but I think he's being very generous. But why bag a person just he's got bad taste in television :D.

5. Yes, we do have our large shopping complexes, Soutland, Chadstone, Knox City, Fountain Gate, in Melbourne (other states have theirs) and they all look the same. But we also have wonderful "main street" shopping centres like Carnegie, Bentleigh, Oakleigh, where locals meet and shoot the breeze. You can have a real conversation with the butcher and he knows you name. I saw nothing like that in my travels to America.

6. Haven't camped in America so I can't comment. I have however recently bought a caravan and fourby and been free camping on the 'Bidgie at Balranald and also at Mungo NP.

7. Don't really have anything to say on the subject of religion.

8. Back in '99 mate and I drove from Dallas - Memphis - New Orleans - Austin - Dallas and L.A. - Williams - Grand Canyon - Vegas - Death Valley - Yosemite - San Francisco - L.A. and loved the roads, absolutely brilliant. Even driving the freeways in L.A. was okay. But that was fifteen years ago now and America has had to fund a few "skirmishes" since then so maybe their roads aren't what they once were.

9. I think both countries have treated their indigenous people pretty poorly in the past, hopefully things are on the improve in both countries. As far as the Greeks go Melbourne, at one time had the largest greek population outside Greece. Not sure if that still stands.

10. Guns, well need I say anything. The Americans just don't get it, never will. When I was driving through Dallas there was a Ford F100 in front of us with gun rack in the rear window and three rifles in it. There was a bumper sticker on the back which read "Keep Honking I'm Reloading".


Just for the record I've been to America 3 times and have visited, California, Arizona, Tennessee, Washington, Alaska, Texas, Arkansas, Mississippi, Louisiana and Nevada. I've also traveled to England, France, Greece, Turkey, Bali, New Zealand, Singapore, Canada and Spain. This is not meant as boasting, I know I live in the best country on the planet. Ray was right about one thing though, holidaying somewhere is totally different to living there.

[Sawdust Maker]

I think it's time someone closed this thread

the comments are now targeted at the player and not the ball ...

[Grumpy John]

Okay guys, I don't want this thread closed. I've already had one of my posts deleted and I notice another one has been heavily modified. I think there may be some underlying issues between a couple of the members that the rest of us are not aware of. Please don't let this develop into a brawl.

Ray put up a very negative post and he has been called on it, I think enough has been said.

[DaveTTC]

6. Been camping in the Rockies and around Lake Louise, very beautiful and amazing to see flowing clear water where you really can see the bottom. Oh whoops my bad .... That is Canada not the states. Thought of camping in New Yorke but only saw concrete .... Fair crack of the whip .... Where's a bloke gonna drive a tent peg. (Did not get to city park or what ever it is called, might have found somewhere there). Must say the people I met were very pleasant and even caught the sub way after midnight.


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[BobL]

6. Been camping in the Rockies and around Lake Louise, very beautiful and amazing to see flowing clear water where you really can see the bottom. Oh whoops my bad .... That is Canada not the states. Thought of camping in New Yorke but only saw concrete ....

Depends if you are talking State as opposed to City. Upstate New York has some great camping spots.

[Grumpy John]

6. Been camping in the Rockies and around Lake Louise, very beautiful and amazing to see flowing clear water where you really can see the bottom. Oh whoops my bad .... That is Canada not the states. Thought of camping in New Yorke but only saw concrete .... Fair crack of the whip .... Where's a bloke gonna drive a tent peg. (Did not get to city park or what ever it is called, might have found somewhere there). Must say the people I met were very pleasant and even caught the sub way after midnight.


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art


Depends if you are talking State as opposed to City. Upstate New York has some great camping spots.

Back on track. :clap:

[DaveTTC]

Mostly around ground zero and Brooklyn bridge though I did venture up to pookipski and beyond. Was amazed how rural and nice it was out that way


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Grumpy John]

Just remembered a very tasty gumbo I enjoyed in Vicksburg.

[wheelinround]

TT, I am not attacking his right to make comments, I am questioning his right to call himself an Australian citizen., ie someone entitled to hold an Australian passport. Nor did I raise the question of his citizenship, Ray did.

I have already challenged his thoughts and we appear to be "agreeing to disagree", which is fine by me.

At no time have I or did I state I was an Australian Citizen or could hold an Australia Passport. Nor did I question my citizenship I have always state everywhere this forum others and in general conversation "I am still a pom never became naturalised"

[DaveTTC]

Thought some may like this

http://youtu.be/rMdbVHPmCW0

Hope the link works


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Grumpy John]

Here's one I did for Australia Day a few years ago. Might redo it for this year.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdVJY9a4Py4&feature=youtu.be

[DaveTTC]

Link not working John, I will try again from a browser

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

[Grumpy John]

Link not working John, I will try again from a browser

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

Not a link Dave. It's an attachment, you'll need Media Player or similar to view. Takes a while to download.

[DaveTTC]

Not a link Dave. It's an attachment, you'll need Media Player or similar to view. Takes a while to download.
My phone tried downloading it but coukd not open it when i tried a browser

Not coming up to my australia day do by any chance?

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

[danny.s]

I love the original post.

First generation Australian here from Dutch immigrant parents. Like so many, they came with nothing, built a life, contributed their bit and remain forever grateful to enjoy the freedom and beauty of this country. I haven't travelled yet other than NZ for work, but I'm sure that when I do I will find amazing places and wonderful people, but realise how lucky I am that my parents made that move 60 years ago.

Great joint this.

Danny

[Grumpy John]

My phone tried downloading it but coukd not open it when i tried a browser

Not coming up to my australia day do by any chance?

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

The file is 8 meg Dave, doubt it'll play on a phone.
Love to come up next weekend, however busy with other commitments.

[DaveTTC]

New link works, you got a good voice there John ;). Some good pics too


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Bushmiller]

Being Australian in the Third Millenium is not about skin colour or how long our ancestors have been here for. It's a state of mind. Take Bushmiller for example: a born and bred Londoner who emigrated here when he was approx late 20s. A finer example of living the Australian spirit would be very difficult to find. In fact the only thing that gives him away is the residual London accent (and his second passport, I suppose :U).

:- . Thanks Brett. Where do I send the slab (24 pack as agreed?) and will it go in a 3Kg post bag?

A couple of things: Thanks Grumpy for posting the original comment by Mason. A visitor's perspective is often slightly biased. You don't have to work, vote, buy groceries, pay taxes etc.etc.; In fact none of the banal and irritating requirements of life. Consequently you are going to see things though rose coloured glasses and you have to allow some licence to a poet :).

Although I tend to be critical at times, there is nowhere I would reasonably prefer to live and I can at least chose to avoid or get around the irritating aspects of life most of the time.

Oh, I have only a single passport, but I am entitled to a second and the main reason for having two is to select which queue you go through at customs :D . Brett made reference to my "residual accent" but many poms think I am Australian. I think something must have rubbed off on me. Australians are a very endearing bunch. I may have got too close to my Australian wife :wink: .

We are probably all guilty of becoming complacent with the life we have, but take that away for a while and we might revise our opinion.

Great thread Grumpy and glad it is back on track.

Regards
Paul

[chambezio]

Just a note on accents....I had a Dutch boss. He had quite an accent even though he arrived in Australia when he was 15. When I was working for him he would have been around 40. In the time I worked for him he introduced me to 2 of his older brothers. Both had NO detectable accent other than Australian. One was a pilot for Qantas.
I used to tease the boss by telling him he would go home and "cultivate" his accent to cling to his Dutch roots.
But Paul I could tell you were once a pom after a few minutes talking to you ....but I never picked up an accent by reading your threads on here :B

[danny.s]

I'm not surprised. 60 years in this country and my old man still sounds as Dutch as ever.