Sthil or Honda Brush-cutter???

[ventureoverland]

Ok guys, need a bit of assistance! Nothing to do with metal or wood, but as most of us have gardens Im hoping someone will be more educated on this dilemma than I am!!

I need to buy a new whipper snipper as my FS36 has finally given up the ghost and I also want to buy a blower.


Whipper Snipper:
I know there are a 1001 different units I could have chosen but Ive narrowed it down to two, a 4 stroke Honda unit and 2 stroke Sthil.

Honda
http://pittwatermowers.com.au/lawnmowers/product/honda-umk425l-brushcutter/

Sthil
http://pittwatermowers.com.au/lawnmowers/product/stihl-fs90r-brushcutter/


Blower:
Likewise, a 4 stroke Honda and a 2 stroke Sthil

Honda
http://pittwatermowers.com.au/lawnmowers/product/honda-hhb25-blower/

Sthil
http://pittwatermowers.com.au/lawnmowers/product/stihl-bg86c-professional-blower/


The Honda whipper-snipper is a bit heavier and a bit quieter and will start forever after one or two pulls. The Sthil needs 2 stroke fuel mixing and keeping separate from my Honda mower's unleaded. How reliable will it be at starting??? On the plus side, its lighter, has more power and a tap to extend the wire head.

For the Blower, 4-stroke Honda is a bit heavier and again will always start. Still blows a bit more and a bit faster.


My old Sthil was a real pain to get going over the last few years whereas my 15 year old Honda 4 stroke will usually start with about half a pull, never more than 2. Having said that, I know the newest Sthil 2 stroke's are a far cry from the old units.

Any thoughts or experiences? I know both brands are very good but can't decide. I wonder if in reality if there is a practical difference?

Thoughts and advice please.

Thx
Jon

[NCArcher]

Personally, I prefer the Hondas. And if you already have a 4 stroke mower, going with the 4 stroke Hondas keeps it simple.
They also have a 4 year warranty. Not sure about the Stihls. It doesn't say so I'm guessing it's not 4 yrs.

[FenceFurniture]

Don't forget Echo which are made in Japan. I bought a second hand one a year ago and it's a beast! I use a grey 3mm line (forget the brand, but a good one) and it hardly ever breaks. I found that with my previous Stihl that the line broke all the %^&$#*% bloody time, but they may have changed the mechanism by now to reduce that VERY frustrating feature (bought the Stihl in 1992, so it gave me 20 years).

[malb]

I cannot provide anything approaching a direct comparison between the Honda and the Stihl, but I do have an earlier model Stihl which looks the same and has very similar engine specs that is about 7 years old, and a 2 year old MTD 4 stroke.

Personally, I hate bump feed heads with a passion, so my Stihl ended up being fitted with the Universal brand manual feed head from the older Echo and McCulloch units it was replacing. At about 3 years, the Universal head was getting beyond it and replaced with an identical unit. The only gripe I have ever had with the Stihl was that the D handle on the shaft was fitted with a "protector" spike similar to that on the Honda. This problem was solved by unscrewing the mount for the handle and reversing it so the spike faced right instead of left. This solved the issue of the spike trying to hook me in the goolies. The Stihl has been thrashed over the years, working grass up to 1m high and quite dense, wire fence lines, steep banks, and rough uneven ground without any issues. Had the free first service offered by the dealer/service agent, and has two air cleaner elements and 1 plug in 7 year. Typically runs about 25l of fuel mix a year as an indication of amount of use. I like it because the throttle is nice and linear, which is handy when working along fence lines etc at low throttle, yet it has heaps of grunt when given the gun.

I bought the MTD 2 years ago to fit with polesaw and hedger attachments and wanted the cheapest viable combo. I opted for the 4 stroke over the 2 stroke powerpack (slightly higher price but straight shaft instead of bent shaft brushcutter drive). When purchased, the power head, BC, saw adaptor, and hedger as a combo was similar in price to an equivalent saw attachement for the Honda. The MTD has probably 20 hours on it at present. It is baulky to start unless you get the priming just right, and needs a minute or so running at fast idle to warm up before it becomes reliable. I recently spent 3 hours with it in pole saw guise in a cherry picker lopping and cutting out a 18m cypress which had split at a fork 5m above ground. No problems with the unit provided that it was warmed up prior to entering the bucket, probably had 50-70 one pull start and stops on that job without hassles. Only real issue this unit has had is that I have twice knocked the air cleaner cover of the unit because it is situated close to my body while working overhead. Never have used the brushcutter head with the unit.

The four stroke seems to have less vibration and is definitely quieter and more economical than the Stihl. While you don't have to premix the fuel and oil, you do need regular engine oil changes and the oil volume is fairly critical, nominated volume +/- 5% at all times, and of course you need to check oil level regularly.

As I said earlier, I do not have any Honda experience but acknowledge that they have a reputation for reliability.

[nrb]

I went to get a Honda 4 stroke brush cutter and was told by my local Mowerpower dealer that the Honda 4 stroke(in fact any 4 stroke) was not the way to go (he sells them and Australia is a dumping ground for them) his story is that 4 stroke for a whipper sniper where the engine is turned to all angles leaves a bit to be desired in the lube system.
All his contractor and shire customers were sticking with 2 stroke units.
So that's my 20 cents worth,please tell me if that's not correct.

[cava]

I have the Honda brush-cutter and am seriously considering the Stihl as a replacement. A distant friend works at a school and they use the Stihl with a modified head. He likes it.

I like the petrol only option of the Honda, but the Stihl has a good reputation.

The Honda, up until recently, used to start first or second pull even if it had not been started for 3-4 months - very reliable.

I also have a Stihl blower and starts after 3-4 pulls all the time. 2 pulls on choke and 1-2 on full air.

Whatever you go for let us know, as my decision on an upgrade is not too far away.

[ubute]

I can only speak from Stihl experience but I'm not completely one-eyed, I'll be looking for a Honda push mower when I upgrade that soon. Apart from around the house I do some part-time mowing of commercial and industrial properties and have used mine and dad's Stihl gear extensively around the farm over the years.

My (FS85?) brushy is about 15 years old and has done a LOT of hard work cutting waist high brush, weeds and grass as well as around lawn areas. Lately it's been giving me some good exercise getting it started from cold (a bit of a back and forth game with the choke and full air and about 15 pulls to get going) but it's way overdue for a spark change and has been tuned for altitude around 800-900m whereas now I'm using it close to sea level which I guess could affect things? While it can be a pig to start when cold, once it's running I'm glad for the extra grunt and light weight relative comfort to use with the harness and handlebars especially when used for hours at a time, and it starts from warm with 1 pull. It's had the original pull-twist type head and a universal head but I'm considering the bump feed one to try.

I've the BG86 Stihl blower, about 3 years old now, and it starts like cava's does from cold with one or 2 pulls on choke then on 1 full air pull at worst, sometimes even just on the first choke pull. It doesn't take a big heavy pull either. After using it for 20-30mins at a time I'm glad it's not a heavier one even with the reasonable built-in vibration dampening in the handle.

Some things to consider are the type of usage your blower and trimmer will get? If you're doing lighter lawn work around the house in residential areas then 4 stroke (Honda) might be the way to go. Quieter, easier to start, only one type of fuel to keep. If you'll be using them for extended periods of time and/or for beefier work, then I'd be leaning towards the 2 stroke (Stihl) models for the power, lighter weight, ability to use them at mixed angles without worrying where the sump is angled. New Stihls seem different beasts to start than the older models.

[Oxbox]

I've had two Sthil brushcutters which were both great machines, good power and generally reliable. As a model aeroplane enthusiast I can say that small two stroke engines require constant tweaking in order to remain 100% reliable in starting and running. Which is why I now own a Honda 4 stroke Brush Cutter, it has more power than any two stroke I've ever used, is quieter and unbeleivably reliable, with the added bonus that I no longer need to purchase two stroke oil, I no longer have to rack my brain to remember what mix I was running, nor work out how much oil to put in the fuel every time I fill my jerry can, and, I dont have a jerry can of 2 stroke fuel that I (technically) cant use for anything other than my brush cutter. I would strongly recomend the honda gear to anyone in the market.

my 2 bob, best of luck whichever way you go!

Ox

[rob streeper]

I have the Stihl KM 130R Kombi system. I have the blower (excellent), tiller (very good for what it is, heavy), hedge trimmer (excellent) and the weed whip (excellent). I've had the system three years. Starts on the second pull. When I bought the thing the dealer was trying to sell me on the blowing attachment but it looked to me at first glance like a toy. Since I bought about $1500 worth of equipment from him he gave me the blower for free and I'm really glad he did - it's amazing.
The only thing that is even mildly annoying is that it needs a new air filter every year because of the amount of dust we have locally.

[artme]

Just a point - Bump feed is a right PITA!!

I changed to a head that can take up to 6 pieces of line but I only ever use 3. Best move I ever made.

[Oxbox]

I agree, the bump feed is a PITA, so, I'm using the Stihl Auto feed head, its AWESOME! and it retrofitted straight to my Honda:)

http://www.stihl.com.au/STIHL-Products/Accessories/Grass-Trimmers-and-Brushcutter-Accessories/22176-1650/SuperCut-Mowing-Head.aspx
(http://www.stihl.com.au/STIHL-Products/Accessories/Grass-Trimmers-and-Brushcutter-Accessories/22176-1650/SuperCut-Mowing-Head.aspx)
Ox

[FenceFurniture]

I agree, the bump feed is a PITA, so, I'm using the Stihl Auto feed head, its AWESOME! and it retrofitted straight to my Honda:)

http://www.stihl.com.au/STIHL-Products/Accessories/Grass-Trimmers-and-Brushcutter-Accessories/22176-1650/SuperCut-Mowing-Head.aspx
(http://www.stihl.com.au/STIHL-Products/Accessories/Grass-Trimmers-and-Brushcutter-Accessories/22176-1650/SuperCut-Mowing-Head.aspx)
OxEmmachisit? Wonder if it would retrofit to an Echo because my current head is near life end.

[Kidbee]

This is getting off the track a bit but I have a Shindawa T260 two-stroke. I work at a College with a stable of whipper snippers. They were buying the Honda 4 stroke ones but then switched to Shindawa. The latter start effortlessly and have more guts than the Honda, but they have a bump line feed that has never worried me.

[Oxbox]

Emmachisit? Wonder if it would retrofit to an Echo because my current head is near life end.

From memory, theres about 4 different sizes, I dont remember how or what the measurements represented, and they ranged from around $40 to $90AUD, though that is from my memory:C

[Pearo]

I went to get a Honda 4 stroke brush cutter and was told by my local Mowerpower dealer that the Honda 4 stroke(in fact any 4 stroke) was not the way to go (he sells them and Australia is a dumping ground for them) his story is that 4 stroke for a whipper sniper where the engine is turned to all angles leaves a bit to be desired in the lube system.


I have a makita 4 stroke, its never missed a beat and its pretty light compared to some of its equivalents. Even though its a 4 stroke, it can be operated in any direction. I am guessing they use a dry sump, so no issue with lubrication. Pretty common concept, think aerobatic planes, they operate at all angles and are pretty reliable. Anyway, my makita has done some work and its still going fine. I dont look after it very well either!

[ventureoverland]

OK guys, thanks for all the info, advice and words of wisdom. Generally it seems to be a split decision.

So heres the rub... Ive paid my money and made my choice!

Ended up going for the Stihl FS 94 RC brushcutter and the Stihl BG 86 C blower.

Why? Well it came down to a few simple things...
1. The local Stihl dealer is open 7 days a week, the local Honda dealer 5.5
2. Brushcutter is lighter than Honda
3. Blower has nearly 30% more volume of air flow and flows faster

I ended up spending $50 more on the 94 RC as that supposedly has the most modern of the engines in the brush cutter range. Choke is more like a switch. Turn and push, pull (twice this morning from cold), let it run for 10s and then press throttle & away you go. Pressing the throttle automatically releases the choke. Apparently you can press the prime bulb thingy all day and it won't flood it.

The blower has this choke mechanism also.

All in all Im very happy.

However, the guy in the shop suggested that I should swap out the auto-feed wire thingy that comes as standard for the tap-to-feed unit - He said the auto-feed was a PITA. This was a no-cost thing, so I did, but after using it today I think I'll be going back to the shop tomorrow and getting my auto-feed back. I do like the tap to feed when it works, I found myself very quickly listening to the head, tap, listen to the change, tap again if need be etc. Its great... when it works. The problem I found was that the bloody thing keeps getting stuck and wont feed the nylon out; I was constantly taking off the head, un-jamming it and putting it back together again.

The wire in the push-to-feed head is as wired by the dealer, not me, so I assume its spooled on properly.

I understand that the auto-feed unit can only use 2.4mm nylon whereas the tap-to-feed unit can take 3mm at a push, 2.7mm easy.

As for the increased noise of the 2 stroke over the 4, well I always use ear-muffs anyway so it doesn't really bother me.



Finally then, any thoughts on the push-to-feed? I know people have said its a PITA, but nobody has said why. Is my experience today the norm?

Thx
J

[ventureoverland]

Quick update on the "tap-to-feed" head...

I went back to the dealer and spoke to them about my problems. In fairness they were very good about it and said that the problem is largely due to users not tapping enough!

According to the dealer, the nylon needs to be kept long, not doing so increases friction and as the friction increases the heat builds up in the nylon, runs down the it into the head and sticks to adjacent strands of nylon, then breaks off at one side of the aluminium eyelets.

Personally Im not sure I agree with the friction and short nylon bit. I suspect whats actually happening is the heat gets built up at the end of the nylon, however long it is. When its longer there is more of it to dissipate the heat into without causing a problem. When its shorter the heat dissipates into adjacent strands and becomes a PITA.

Anyway, whatever's going on, keeping the cable longer is definitely better and when in grass and weeds its fine. Now to figure out how to stop it being a PITA when I'm working around the rockery:)


Oh, and as for the blower... thats great too. Lots of air movement and made light work from blowing all the composted mulch out of my gutters:)

[Pearo]

Quick update on the "tap-to-feed" head...

I went back to the dealer and spoke to them about my problems. In fairness they were very good about it and said that the problem is largely due to users not tapping enough!



Yup, this is what I do and never have problems. Tap every couple of metres and more if you at edging a chain wire fence or concrete edges.

[malb]

According to the dealer, the nylon needs to be kept long, not doing so increases friction and as the friction increases the heat builds up in the nylon, runs down the it into the head and sticks to adjacent strands of nylon, then breaks off at one side of the aluminium eyelets.


I learnt very quickly that you need to run the longest possible lines to prevent premature breakage. I suspect that the issue is more related to flexing at the eyelet than friction between line and and ground or grass etc. I run my lines at about 300mm each and can trim along 150m of ag and paling fence with a single release along the way. Because of the line length, and only using maybe the last 30-40mm of line to do the actual cutting, the line between the eyelet and the cutting zone absorbs a lot of the flex and shock, so the line at the eyelet is not working anywhere near as hard and doesn't suffer from the heat buildup from flexing that a short line would. I rerigged the guard so it sits further back from the head to allow the greater line length.

[ventureoverland]

Thanks for the replies. The problems were definitely user error! I was trying to use it like I've used every other brush-cutter over the past 20years. By keeping the nylon longer and tapping more frequently, it brilliant. I don't think I'd go back to the old-school spools now!

Thx
J


Thx
Jon

[Poppa]

I too have learnt how to use my Honda effectively. And I can even reload the spool with only a small amount of swearing. Only trouble is that my wife now wants me to actually use it regularly to trim the edges. The cheek of it.

[cava]

Only trouble is that my wife now wants me to actually use it regularly to trim the edges. The cheek of it.

You too? :D

[old1955]

I'm with a couple of the others absolutely hate bump feeds. Finished up getting one from Alex Brushcutter heads. Best thing I've ever done.

(I have no connection to Alex Brushcutter Heads just a happy user).

Ross

[cava]

Any update on your impressions on the Stihl whipper snipper?

As I have put off getting a replacement for the Honda for so long, it now looks as if I have to get a replacement ASAP.