Adventures in matte 2k paint.

[dalejw]

Before I start anything here, if you intend to use 2 pack paint, do some reading and make sure you have the correct PPE which is a supplied air, full face respirator. It's nasty stuff and it's absorbed through your eyes as well as your lungs. Be safe!!!!

So I'm in the process of building my dream house and my dream kitchen. I love ply and am using it through the kitchen cabinets as well as the drawer fronts. I've been trying for ages to work out how to finish the drawer fronts and the carcasses (also ply). Previously I've always used poly on ply where I've wanted a hard wearing finish but it always makes things look a bit plasticky. It's also not great over other paint which is what I wanted for the kitchen drawer fronts.

I love 2pak paint, it sprays like a dream, dries quickly and is tough as nails. The big trouble is it's gloss level. It's very very glossy which is great if that's your thing but I've been on a mission to knock the gloss level down for a while now. I've tried sanding the clear coat with 500 and 800 (hard to get an even finish) I've tried the festool viles sanding pads (like a scotchbrite) in various grades which is better and easier to get even but still not perfect and things still look a bit plasticky.

I recently tried a new paint shop and got talking to a very knowledgable and enthusiastic bloke from Premier Automotive Paints in Malaga WA. I was explained what I was trying to achieve and he put this tin down on the counter.

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee376/dalejwoodley/1a8ec414-c374-43f0-b2ed-367ae7339c46.jpg (http://s1224.photobucket.com/user/dalejwoodley/media/1a8ec414-c374-43f0-b2ed-367ae7339c46.jpg.html)

Even at $100 a litre it was worth a shot because this finish has been driving me mental for a while.

I'll let the pictures speak for themselves. This is 3 coats of 2 pack clear over bare timber and spray putty, basecoat and 3 coats of clear for the colour on the front.

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee376/dalejwoodley/23A56C2A-7F97-4FA7-977B-B96020996E74.jpg (http://s1224.photobucket.com/user/dalejwoodley/media/23A56C2A-7F97-4FA7-977B-B96020996E74.jpg.html)

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee376/dalejwoodley/90384E07-FFD4-4B2D-ACEA-73D2A5E82823.jpg (http://s1224.photobucket.com/user/dalejwoodley/media/90384E07-FFD4-4B2D-ACEA-73D2A5E82823.jpg.html)

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee376/dalejwoodley/B60C39BE-B70B-4618-9D72-A6C04F22C0D0.jpg (http://s1224.photobucket.com/user/dalejwoodley/media/B60C39BE-B70B-4618-9D72-A6C04F22C0D0.jpg.html)

It is absolutely stunning. Perfectly matte and tough as nails.

It has a very very slight texture which is impossible to see in the pics but over the bare timber (sanded to 400 grit) it feels for all the world like you're touching raw timber. Even when I know that it's the texture of the paint I'm feeling, my brain says "raw timber". It's certainly something I'm going to be playing with more and more in my furniture building. It's a constant battle between finish and wear with any functional pieces like say a coffee table. Everyone wants to be able to put their coffee cup down and not have it stain, you want to be able to scrub dirt off it with a scourer but still want it to feel like natural wood. It's looking like with this product you can have both.

[SPF]

I know this is an old thread now - but how did you go with this product and how has it performed over time?

The product looks very interesting.

[dalejw]

The short answer is, it's been great. My kitchen has been in for over a year now and still looks the same as when it was installed. There's a few chips on the edges of drawers but that's to be expected. It get's cleaned with nylon scourers and doesn't scratch or go glossy.

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I've used it on a few projects for customers now and by all reports it's wearing well.

This vanity has been installed for around a year now. Bathrooms aren't usually great for timber and I was worried the expansion of the timber with humidity might open up cracks in it but according to the customers, so far so good. I'm not using it a heap on customer's jobs as it's just so expensive.

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I've been using a Sayerlack 10% gloss 2pak poly which is quite Matte. It doesn't have the same feeling as the DNA clear but it's a heap cheaper.

[SPF]

dalejw,
Thanks for the reply. That's some great work.

I see you have a concrete counter top too. I'm currently investigating this, what did you use to seal it and has it met your expectations in terms of durability and stain resistance?

[dalejw]

We had the concrete top made and the guys that build them have their own sealer that they aren't too keen to give up the details on. This top has a foam core to reduce the weight as it's huge (4.5m * 1m).

It's not the most durable thing as far as a comparison to granite or some of the engineered stones. No problems with stains.

It is very pretty though :2tsup:

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[SPF]

It is very pretty though :2tsup:


Yes it is.

Thanks for the reply, my search for a good concrete sealer continues.

[soundman]

A couple of things.
Most automotive paint shops and some other places have " matting agent", it is a very fine powder that you can add to almost ant paint or resin to reduce its gloss ....... I have a bag of it and a little goes a fairly long way.

As for the sealer for the concrete bench top ...... probably slate and tile sealer ...... it's a resonous product thinned with Xylene. ...... can be used on pretty much any stonework .... penetrates and seals, dows not change the apperance much unless you lay it on pretty thick

cheers

[SPF]

hey soundman, thanks for the info regarding matting agent, I'll check out what the local paint shop has.

[jms_8087]

I've always wondered about spraying Auto 2k onto timber - Good to know it works!

DNA paint is pretty good stuff I have used their pearls in the past.

[dalejw]

It definitely makes things pretty bomb proof.

You just need to spray some sort of sealer onto the timber first to get a decent build going with the clear. You should really use a 2pack sealer but I've been using a BC513 Pre cat sanding sealer as a base for a couple of years now and it's fine. Quick once over with the sealer, light sand after about 30 mins, tack coat of the clear and allow to flash off for 15 minutes followed by 2 cross patterned wet on wet coats and it's done. Pretty much ready to handle and move around in an hour.

It's a pretty quick process.

[jms_8087]

Do you think it will work no problems if the timber is stained first? And would the type of stain make a difference be it water based or oil?


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[jms_8087]

Do you think it will work no problems if the timber is stained first? And would the type of stain make a difference be it water based or oil?


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Come to think about it I wonder if adding a tint into the clear would be an option??


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[dalejw]

No probs over spirit based stains, can't see water based being a problem providing it's dried for a bit.

I had a nightmare job where I tried to tint the clear and wound up sanding everything off and starting again. Way too difficult to get even colour and it looked horrible. I think you really need that clear to give the finish depth.

[Ubernoob]

The cheapest way to matte a clear is to add talcum powder, it does supposedly make it less durable.
I have been trying to work out yow to get a clear crinkle like VHT paint but haven't tried much yet. Adding a thinning agent to a top coat as it cures can give some cool effects but I'd assume that would also reduce strength.

[dalejw]

The matting agent can be a risky move I reckon. Ok to go gloss to satin but gets pretty tricky after that. It can get chalky if you try and get too matte with it. Too many coats and it get's cloudy. It's a fine line! BTW There are a lot of matte clears but this is by far the most reliable I've found.

[SPF]

The cheapest way to matte a clear is to add talcum powder, it does supposedly make it less durable.

If anybody wants to try this, make sure you get industrial talc, and not the bottle of Johnson & Johnson from the bathroom cupboard. :no: While it does have the same base the stuff you get from the supermarket has additives that react differently when mixed with paint/resin. I've seen people try to make filler and glue with epoxy and this stuff - it doesn't work (it slumps and is weak).

Also, if you want the best results with talc, make sure it is dry - its better to buy small packets and use them up within an hour or two of opening. Otherwise, you'll have to dry it before using it.

I wouldn't recommend using talc for anything, if you want to find a filler or a texture additive for paint/resin all of the big poly and epoxy resin systems have additives available and they are generally much better - because they are not flammable they are easier to order online/by phone than the resin itself and you can usually get them posted to you.