Electrical deaths

[Big Shed]

Some interesting facts on the causes of electrical deaths in Australia and New Zealand

http://www.erac.gov.au/images/Downloads ... 9-2010.pdf (http://www.erac.gov.au/images/Downloads/Erac%202009-2010.pdf)

I found tha a very interesting document.

One of the statistics quoted there is really telling.

Deaths in Australia = 25

Deaths in NZ = 3

Population of Australia = 22 million

Population of NZ = 4.4 million ie 1/5 the population of Australia

Based on those figures one would expect there to be at least 5 deaths and given that NZ actually allows their citizens to do some of their own (very dangerous) electrical work, one would expect that figure to be even higher.

Makes you wonder, doesn't it?





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[Master Splinter]

In a thread on the Renovate forum ages ago, I dug up some of the same stats for the late 90's/early 2000's for a number of countries. Of them, Australia (the only one with a 'no touchee' attitude) consistently had the highest death rate.

Australia's rate only started to come down about 5-6 years ago when the various state/territory electricity authorities rolled out the 'look up and live' and similar campaigns.

From memory, the biggest causes of death were general public - contact with a live overhead wire and qualified electricians - working on live equipment.

Mains electrical is a high school level subject in some countries...but you can get a merit badge in it if you are a Scout in France!

[BobL]

This is about the 3rd one of these I have seen this year.

This plug was attached to a small DP donate to our Men's shed. A message that came with it was, "Not working".


http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=324348&stc=1

My job is to sort them out, e.g. replace old cables and school switches with electromagnetic safety types etc and perform a full safety test on them.
Then I put a "Not tested - DO NOT USE" sticker on them, and once we have a enough work worth calling a sparky in for, he comes in and tags them and everything is above board.

[artme]

Staggering Bob!!


On the subject of deaths, Queensland has had an appalling record in this area and there have been sveral inquiries into this phenomenon. This has been addressed in recent times by education campaigns amongst electrical trades people.

I remember an instance up here where a just qualified sparkie drilled through a live cable!! This sort of basic stuff just beggars the imagination.

[BRADFORD]

This is about the 3rd one of these I have seen this year.

This plug was attached to a small DP donate to our Men's shed. A message that came with it was, "Not working".


http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=324348&stc=1

My job is to sort them out, e.g. replace old cables and school switches with electromagnetic safety types etc and perform a full safety test on them.
Then I put a "Not tested - DO NOT USE" sticker on them, and once we have a enough work worth calling a sparky in for, he comes in and tags them and everything is above board.


I worked service/repairing certain types of domestic appliances for many years and I would see this at least 4-5 times a year, as well as other unbelievable electrical "work", some of which was so dangerous I'm surprised whoever used the thing actually survived.
All this would have been done by some DIYer.
I don't think allowing more DIY electrical work would improve the situation, especially when the statistics show the majority of deaths result from misuse/interference of equipment or installation, a very telling statistic in my opinion.
I think that maybe in Australia, more than other countries, we tend to have the approach that we can do anything, hence we see some wild and woolly electrical, plumbing, building and other work being done regardless of regulation, laws etc. Some of this can be dangerous.

I have to confess that I'm no exception and will have a crack at almost anything, although I'm quite aware of my limitations and some things are outside my knowledge and abilities, these are the things I leave alone.

[chambezio]

I put a new kitchen in for a bloke. There was some electrical work that needed to be done to finish my bit and the owner wanted the electrician to do a bit more some where else in the house. The owner complained of an RCD dropping out periodically. The previous owner did some "Owner Building" work. My electrician mate kept coming up to a fault that was hard to track. He found that someone had put new wiring in but mixed up the colours and of coarse the supply. My mate could not believe the mess some one had created. It took him 2 solid days of fishing to find what was going on. It was just luck that the house didn't catch fire

[BobL]

I worked service/repairing certain types of domestic appliances for many years and I would see this at least 4-5 times a year, as well as other unbelievable electrical "work", some of which was so dangerous I'm surprised whoever used the thing actually survived.
All this would have been done by some DIYer.
I don't think allowing more DIY electrical work would improve the situation, especially when the statistics show the majority of deaths result from misuse/interference of equipment or installation, a very telling statistic in my opinion.

I agree that open slather for DIYers is not the answer but I also think just relying on "no touchee" regs and doing nothing else is too simplistic an approach to this problem and doesn't appear to be that effective anyway.

Whatever is done, while plugs/sockets/etc (including 3 phase) are readily available at hardware stores or on the internet, some unqualified folks will always dabble in this sort of stuff. Like drug use it goes under cover and there's more of "the blind leading the blind" involved which leads to major probs.

I have no problem with education campaigns that advise on how dangerous mains AC can be, in fact I'd like to see more of it, but I'd also like to see more about seeking advice promoting the reading the instructions that come with electrical bits and pieces. This could be done in a subtle way that says, READ THE INSTRUCTIONS and the Instructions say "this must be done by a qualified person" and BTW, just in case the dabbler decides to dabble, there is some useful info in the packaging that reduces the risk of death or injury. I note that most electrical bits and pieces sold in hardware stores do have this which is a good thing but my bet is that few dabblers read these and it doesn't help when they decide to do things out of left field, like adding a half dozen GP0s to a lighting circuit and then find the breaker trips so they upgrade the breaker to way beyond the capacity of the wiring.

There is a more recent report than the one referred to by Big Shed that covers the 200 odd deaths in an 11 year period at
http://www.ncis.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/NCIS-FACT-SHEET-Electrocution-related-deaths-final.pdf

The interesting thing that I note is that most electrocutions (54%) occur o people in paid employment. Most are non-electrical workers that either intentionally or unintentionally come into contact with electricity while working. Of the 12 case studies presented in the report, two were DIYers and most are work related incidents.

The recommendations in the report are centered mainly around improving situations for folks in paid employment. I note during our recent Termite Inspection, for the first time in 38 annual inspections, required the power to be turned off at the meter before he inspected the roof space.

[Farmer Geoff]

3 deaths in NZ vs the 5 it would be if same rate as Australia is probably not a statistically significant difference although whoever those two lucky people are in NZ would be happy!

The fitting of RCDs would be making a lot of situations safer but many places still don't have them. One of mine tripped last week due to moisture build up inside an old desk lamp that I had in a wine cellar. It was left switched on at the power point and turned off at the light. Without the RCD, the metal lamp shade may well have been live and I would have been vulnerable to shock. Nothing illegal - just a silly light to have chosen for that spot.

But a big problem in Australia is that DIYers can buy all manner of electrical components but because they are not supposed to install it themselves, there is a lack of simple info that would make the work they clearly do attempt to do, so much safer. For instance, at the big green shed, there are how to sheets on tiling, woodwork, garden plumbing, etc but nothing on electrical stuff. Even if there was a simple booklet stamped with "Give this to your electrician" then there might be less mishaps.

Death is too severe a penalty for stupidity or ignorance. So let's accept and react to the reality rather than continue with our lofty preaching. Syringe disposal units in toilets proves that we can deal with illegal realities elsewhere - let's do it with electrical work.

[A Duke]

Hi,
I think part of the trouble is not being aloud to, so therefore nobody gets shown the right way. When my mother was at school, in another place and another time, the girls in the domestic science class were taught how to wire a plug top and fix a rewire-able fuse, so they did not have to wait for hubby to come home if they strike a problem doing the ironing or vacuuming. She taught me how to fit a plug top at 6 years of age before I could even read.
Regards

[Chesand]

If it is illegal to do any electrical or plumbing work, the fittings should NOT be on sale in retail outlets but rather available only to qualified people on production of their appropriate licence.

[A Duke]

If it is illegal to do any electrical or plumbing work, the fittings should NOT be on sale in retail outlets but rather available only to qualified people on production of their appropriate licence.Hi,
If you read the label it will tell you it should only be fitted by a licensed person. So if you can't read or don't understand English, how would you know.
Regards

[doug3030]

I am happy to put plugs on extension leads and even replace the lead on an appliance. As far as I am aware it is not illegal to do so as these items are not hard-wired into the mains power. Naturally I dont work on anything that is plugged in.

When you buy plugs from Bunnings, they come with full instructions including full scale drawings of the wire stripping required to make it work and which coloured wire goes where. Having said that I do not mean to be encouraging anyone who does not know what they are doing to buy a plug and follow the directions. I was taught how to wire a plug in my early teens by my father, who is qualified.

I am also a Qualified Amateur Radio Operator and that allows me to build my own radio equipment that transmits in the Amateur Radio bands and plug it into the mains power.

Where does the line get drawn on what a non-trade qualified person can and cant do? WHo has replaced the brushes in their router motor or other powertools?

Personally I will not take on a job that I am not comfortable doing, and I am probably comfortable doing more than most people. If you do a google search you can find instructions and you-tube videos telling you how to do just about anything. Most of this information is posted by unqualified people. I dont believe in the "Nanny State" concept but there does have to be some regulation I suppose.

Cheers

Doug

[artme]

When living in Brisbane we had the kitchen re done.

The plumber came in and began to do his bit. He took a jolt from the electrical side of things and that gave all and sundry pause for thought. I switched the power off at the box so the job could be completed. Why the plumber took a hit I am not certain but the tap for the dishwasher connection was directly above the power point for the dishwasher!!

I had the power point moved.

Another example of similar stupidity occurred in the house I built on the farm in Leeton. The plumber would not listen to our instructions regarding the location of the shower taps and just plonked them where he saw fit.
It was not until a few years later when the cold water tap in the shower came adrift that I realized this fool had placed the water supply directly above the power point in the neighbouring bedroom!!

In both these cases all work had been done by qualified tradies and passed by trade inspectors!!!

My brother is a qualified sparkie and I got advice from him when I wired my shed in Bris. I had a sparkie come in to inspect and test the wiring. He was very impressed. I was not so impressed when he connected to the board without having the supply from the street switched off!!!

[rrich]

In another place and another time. . . . .

I took the flashlight (Torch) removed the batteries and bulb. Then with a bit of wire and medical tape I "made" a flashlight. Stupid? Yes. Even my father thought that it was stupid and a waste of medical tape. And I caught h***.

But I learned more about electricity doing that than I was ever taught in science classes in years 5 & 6.

With that small bit of knowledge and a question to a friend who was a sparky, I understood hot, neutral and ground of an AC circuit. Some years later I watched a sparky install a circuit for a clothes dryer. (220 volts using phase A and phase B.) From that I understood our complex electrical system for higher wattage appliances.

The point is, give your kids a torch, a few extra batteries, a bulb and a bit of wire. Challenge them to "make" a torch. What they will learn is priceless and will stay with them all their lives.

What usually kills people is not necessarily the hot wire but ground. We are all aware of the hot wire but almost never aware that we are in contact with ground. Yes, it sounds stupid but the more that you think about it, the more sense it makes.

BTW - Anyone remember the "Left Hand In Pocket" rule when working on transmitters?

[A Duke]

We talk English I think

USA Hot Neutral Ground

Aus. Active Neutral Earth

U.K. Live Neutral Earth

One of the usual confusions is when some one is used to terminals marked L N E then come to Aus. and find A N E L, L being a looping connection.
Regards

[BobL]

In another place and another time. . . . .

I took the flashlight (Torch) removed the batteries and bulb. Then with a bit of wire and medical tape I "made" a flashlight. Stupid? Yes. Even my father thought that it was stupid and a waste of medical tape. And I caught h***.

But I learned more about electricity doing that than I was ever taught in science classes in years 5 & 6.

With that small bit of knowledge and a question to a friend who was a sparky, I understood hot, neutral and ground of an AC circuit. Some years later I watched a sparky install a circuit for a clothes dryer. (220 volts using phase A and phase B.) From that I understood our complex electrical system for higher wattage appliances.

The point is, give your kids a torch, a few extra batteries, a bulb and a bit of wire. Challenge them to "make" a torch. What they will learn is priceless and will stay with them all their lives.

What usually kills people is not necessarily the hot wire but ground. We are all aware of the hot wire but almost never aware that we are in contact with ground. Yes, it sounds stupid but the more that you think about it, the more sense it makes.


Playing with batteries and light globes is extremely useful but there's a bit more to learn about mains AC so that students can be safe. The ground is actually irrelevant - it's the current delivery capability of the supply and the potential difference across the contact points that electrocutes. Teaching these concepts is not all that easy.

Simple/common explanations that use the word "ground" appears to leads to a serious life threatening misconception about mains electricity. In regular surveys I did of university students in my first year physic classes, the majority of students (who had all passed senior high school physics) thought they were totally safe if their body did not touch the actual ground - e.g. they could use rubber boots and do what they liked with mains electricity,. When I asked them to explain why so many people are electrocuted in roof cavities they could not explain it. It also does not take into account that electrocution can happen between two phases of multiphase supply. The concept of electrical potential and potential difference is not all that intuitive which is why it is difficult for most people who usually think in terms of absolutes.

[Stewie D]

A couple of years ago a local electrical wholesaler closed his shop due to retirement. Behind his main counter was a sheet of ply with a lot of melted and burnt electrical fittings that some of the sparkies had brought in. These ranged from complete fuse boxes that were burnt to 8 double adapters that had melted and fused together off the one power point and a lot of other stuff as well. Most of them were as a result of "home" electricians. The old boy also told me a few stories about when he started in the trade. Head shaking stuff .

I also remember in my second year as an apprentice chippy in NZ, working on a row of shops and an amenity building at our local Uni campus. After installing most of the ali windows the boss got me and another apprentice to install the storm moulds etc. We needed a power drill ( pre-cordless obviously ) so we ran out a couple of cords from the site box and connected them together. Being safety conscious I also plugged the first power cord into one of our transformers then looped it over a few timber frames to keep it off the wet ground and away we went. An hour later the other apprentice had the drill and was pulling it and the attached cable around the corner of the building complaining that it was stuck on something. I went and had a look and was mortified that the cables had dislodged from the timber frame and were lying directly on the muddy ground. Where the two power cords had been tied together they were now in a puddle and under water which was now bubbling ! I yelled out for the other guy to drop the drill then went back and fixed the cables being on the ground. I still can't work out why it didn't blow the fuse ?

Stewie

[Master Splinter]

It wouldn't have blown the fuse because fuses don't work that way. A fuse blows if there is either significant instantaneous overcurrent (maybe 10x normal) or if there is prolonged draw at a slight overcurrent (maybe 1.5 x normal for 30 minutes).

See also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcrY59nGxBg

[doug3030]

A friend was electrocuted at work today. He is alive but badly shaken. :oo: I don't know how badly he was hurt yet.

This happened in a very large office environment where ALL the electrical work was done by professionals. I imagine that there are going to be health and safety inspectors all over the place tomorrow if they aren't already there today.

Doug

[BobL]

A friend was electrocuted at work today. He is alive but badly shaken. :oo: I don't know how badly he was hurt yet.

This happened in a very large office environment where ALL the electrical work was done by professionals. I imagine that there are going to be health and safety inspectors all over the place tomorrow if they aren't already there today.

Doug

That's not a good thing. Did he get himself checked out properly? Most people don't realise they need to seek proper medical advice after being zapped by mains. Burns can occur internally which can lead to all sorts of problems. I hope he is OK

[Mobyturns]

A friend was electrocuted at work today. He is alive but badly shaken. :oo: I don't know how badly he was hurt yet.

This happened in a very large office environment where ALL the electrical work was done by professionals. I imagine that there are going to be health and safety inspectors all over the place tomorrow if they aren't already there today.

Doug

Definitely not good. Sincerely hope it was a minor shock.

In the early '70's my Dad & I were both booted at the same time by 240V. I was standing on a timber workbench holding up a disused TV antenna so we could store & secure it to the underside of the rafters in the shed. Dad touched me while he was standing barefoot on the concrete floor & both of us got thrown to the floor. After some searching with the mains off my uncle, who was an electrical inspector for the regional electricity board, found the culprit - a brass cable clamp. When the shed was wired the pin in the cable clamp had not been driven home fully into the hardwood rafter so the OCD electrician neatened up the clamp with a whack. That damaged the insulation & just happened to be the one the aluminium antenna element contacted.

[doug3030]

That's not a good thing. Did he get himself checked out properly? Most people don't realise they need to seek proper medical advice after being zapped by mains. Burns can occur internally which can lead to all sorts of problems. I hope he is OK

Would you believe the idiots at work told him to go home and have the rest of the day off.

I have not contacted him personally, he is not that close a friend but I have been advised he had the good sense to take himself to a doctor. He is actually a member of the Corporate Health and Safety Committee, ironically.

Doug

[doug3030]

My electrocuted friend is doing fine.

Cheers

Doug

[rrich]

My electrocuted friend is doing fine.

Cheers

Doug

Good to hear.

[artme]

Not a good story Doug but I hope your friend will continue to do well and that everything possible is done to find and rectify the cause of the incident. I also trust the installers will be traced and brought to account.

Some years back a lady I worked with had a son who was electrocuted at his school when he put a paper clip into a power socket. The school did not not inform the mother or seek any medical help. Luckily the kid was OK.


In another example of professionals getting it wrong we had electricians working at our school. Our very conscientious WPH&SO did a lockout and informed staff of what was going on. The arrogant sparkie failed to inform Andy of his completion of the work and somehow ripped the fuse box open, put everything in place and left.

All the woodwork machinery was running backwards!!

There was some action taken but I didn't get to find out what.

[A Duke]

Hi,
Not wishing to be a grammar/spelling Nazi I still have to point out that the dictionary says "electrocution death electricity". If the victim survives they have had an electric shock and/or injury.
:)
Regards

[BRADFORD]

Hi,
Not wishing to be a grammar/spelling Nazi I still have to point out that the dictionary says "electrocution death electricity". If the victim survives they have had an electric shock and/or injury.
:)


Somebody had to say it, I've been looking at the last few posts and thinking I didn't want to be the first. :)

[Pearo]

Playing with batteries and light globes is extremely useful but there's a bit more to learn about mains AC so that students can be safe. The ground is actually irrelevant - it's the current delivery capability of the supply and the potential difference across the contact points that electrocutes. Teaching these concepts is not all that easy.

Simple/common explanations that use the word "ground" appears to leads to a serious life threatening misconception about mains electricity. In regular surveys I did of university students in my first year physic classes, the majority of students (who had all passed senior high school physics) thought they were totally safe if their body did not touch the actual ground - e.g. they could use rubber boots and do what they liked with mains electricity,. When I asked them to explain why so many people are electrocuted in roof cavities they could not explain it. It also does not take into account that electrocution can happen between two phases of multiphase supply. The concept of electrical potential and potential difference is not all that intuitive which is why it is difficult for most people who usually think in terms of absolutes.


I used to work with a sparky who thought I was lying when I said you could hang onto an active (live) wire and not get electrocuted provided you had no electrical connection to ground and no connection to neutral. He did not beleive me, so I showed him!! So many electricans and engineers simply dont understand the basics physics.

When I did my apprenticeship (Instrument fitter, which is/was a dual trade), I was taught to work on live gear. Can't take down a whole factory because of one faulty bit of gear, so you had to fix it live. I beleive this is now illegal, but I cant confirm as I am a good 10+ years out of the trade.

When it comes to electrical work, I am fairly picky. The standard of electrical work done by a lot of electricians these days is absolutly appaling. Take a look at a lot of new building developments and the wiring is so poor I am surpised there has not been more fires/electrocutions.. I like to have pride in my work, so I do it well and I do it properly. I dont do electrical work anymore, but when I hire electricians to work on my house I expect the same standard of work that I used to do when I was on the tools. Unfortunatly that comes at a cost.

[BobL]

I used to work with a sparky who thought I was lying when I said you could hang onto an active (live) wire and not get electrocuted provided you had no electrical connection to ground and no connection to neutral. . . . . . .

Or connection to any other active phase.

It also depends on the V.
With high voltage all sorts of crazy stuff can happen and you may think you have no electrical connection but suddenly what is high resistance at 240V breaks down and can pass enough current to be deadly.

Most folks don't realise they can be killed by lightning striking the ground near them. The million+ V lightning strike sets up brief areas of potential difference (voltages) on the ground around the strike. If one of your legs is in the 100,000V area and the other is in the 10,000V area, then you have 90,000V between your legs :oo:

[Pearo]

Or connection to any other active phase.

It also depends on the V.
With high voltage all sorts of crazy stuff can happen and you may think you have no electrical connection but suddenly what is high resistance at 240V breaks down and can pass enough current to be deadly.

Most folks don't realise they can be killed by lightning striking the ground near them. The million+ V lightning strike sets up brief areas of potential difference (voltages) on the ground around the strike. If one of your legs is in the 100,000V area and the other is in the 10,000V area, then you have 90,000V between your legs :oo:


So true.

Not many get to play with HV stuff. I was lucky, after my trade I went off to uni. In my early days of engineering I was tasked to work with static and high voltage transients. Taught me a lot about how insulators become conductors!

Its interesting your point about lighting. I worked with a dutch engineer back when I was an apprentice, and he told me about an issue like that that occurred with grounding at a power station They shut a whole area off to public both on land and at sea due to electrocutions from difference in soil and water conductivity.

[Bushmiller]

Early on in the thread some reference was made to electricians being involved in a high proportion of deaths by electrocution. Not surprising really as they are the people in most contact (oops, sorry) with the stuff.

I think live working is fairly common, although not preferred, in many branches of the various electrical trades. Live line working is common on the transmission lines. I went looking for a video, but couldn't find it quickly. The one I saw was in Canada I think where a chopper dumps the linesman on to the wires so he can perform the maintenance.

I think the essence of working with an invisible product is to have a very firm idea of what you are doing and have systems in place to protect you if things go wrong. At work the sparkies working on high voltage gear have rubber mats they operate from, they have an offsider with emergency rescue apparatus and they have usually thoroughly researched the job before tackling it.

However, things can, and do still go wrong.

Regards
Paul

[Mobyturns]

Most folks don't realise they can be killed by lightning striking the ground near them. The million+ V lightning strike sets up brief areas of potential difference (voltages) on the ground around the strike. If one of your legs is in the 100,000V area and the other is in the 10,000V area, then you have 90,000V between your legs :oo:



Its interesting your point about lighting. I worked with a dutch engineer back when I was an apprentice, and he told me about an issue like that that occurred with grounding at a power station They shut a whole area off to public both on land and at sea due to electrocutions from difference in soil and water conductivity.


So in a thunderstorm its better to stand on one leg? :rolleyes: & when near power stations, switch yards etc to hop about? :rolleyes:

In times past our climbers / riggers would "jump" onto & off masts & towers that had "broadcast" equipment (AM/FM TV etc) on them for that very reason.

Seriously though you both raise very good points about the potential difference - "Voltage, electrical potential difference, electric tension or electric pressure between objects" even static discharges from things not thought to be "alive" - vehicles at petrol bowsers etc.

[BobL]

So in a thunderstorm its better to stand on one leg? :rolleyes: & when near power stations, switch yards etc to hop about? :rolleyes:.

Yep, mountain climbers on exposed slopes are advised to squat on one leg during thunder storms. Not that easy to do.

[AlexS]

BobL, your point about lightning creating a potential difference for a radius about the strike point is spot on. In fact, I understand that the majority of deaths from lightning strikes happen this way. Certainly, with stock, it's common for them to die when sheltering under a tree that is struck.

[BobL]

Early on in the thread some reference was made to electricians being involved in a high proportion of deaths by electrocution. Not surprising really as they are the people in most contact (oops, sorry) with the stuff.

In terms of total numbers this is not correct and their industry goes to some pains to point this out and use it to keep the current regs in place. Only about 5 % of electrocutions are to electricians. The majority, 54%, are to other people on the job, so ~50% are to other workers, e.g. tradies, insulation installers, crane drivers, supervisors, inspectors etc.

In terms of the numbers of deaths relative to the total number of people involved in a specific trade, more sparkies are indeed electrocuted than say plumbers, or truck drivers. One issue is the cause of electrocution is not always clear. An insulation installer may have accidentally touched a live wire in a roof cavity but was he/she taking too big a risk operating in low light or was the original wire poorly installed? Of course it would have been smarter to simply turn the power off at the switchboard and I note that is now a requirement for any trades (except electricians) entering a roof cavity.

[Mobyturns]

In terms of total numbers this is not correct and their industry goes to some pains to point this out and use it to keep the current regs in place. Only about 5 % of electrocutions are to electricians. The majority, 54%, are to other people on the job, so ~50% are to other workers, e.g. tradies, insulation installers, crane drivers, supervisors, inspectors etc.

In terms of the numbers of deaths relative to the total number of people involved in a specific trade, more sparkies are indeed electrocuted than say plumbers, or truck drivers. One issue is the cause of electrocution is not always clear. An insulation installer may have accidentally touched a live wire in a roof cavity but was he/she taking too big a risk operating in low light or was the original wire poorly installed? Of course it would have been smarter to simply turn the power off at the switchboard and I note that is now a requirement for any trades (except electricians) entering a roof cavity.

Or was the installation interfered with after install? or did it suffer degradation from inferior product insulation, rodent attack, mechanical damage from storing objects in the roof cavity? Many things to consider.

[Bushmiller]

I do despair a little at the quotation of statistics, which of course I use too and therefore I am equally guilty, because they are a bland, unexplained figure.

They do nothing to explain the circumstances behind the events. For example, an electrician is working on the incoming connection to a house while standing on a ladder (because the wire is 6m in the air): he gets a shock and falls off the ladder breaking his leg. Is that injury attributed to the danger of ladders or electricity or both (which in itself would double the number of events :( )?

Many of those incidents related to the so-called "insulation scandal" would have emanated from the old style of wiring, which with age became extremely brittle. As soon as it was disturbed, it broke and bared wires. Then they came into contact with aluminium foil and we have the recipe for disaster, particularly as houses with that style of wiring would not have had a safety switch.

We had an incident at work where an indication lamp on a switch board was replaced. Unfortunately the wrong voltage bulb was selected and when it was inserted it caused a flash that resulted in burns to the person's hands. That person was an electrician and he was mortified that he had made such a mistake. He was also unlucky in that the switchboard itself was poorly designed without adequate protection against such incidents.

We had yet another incident recently where a contractor during outage work was cutting a large pipe in the boiler with a plasma cutter. As the pipe was large he enlisted a mate to support the piece being cut off. As the cut was being completed the mate suffered an electrical shock, which allegedly exited through his head! It was reputed that the plasma cutter was capable of delivering this injury.The details of this incident are still being investigated, but he reported to the first aid, it was noted that he had two wounds on his head and he was shipped off to the local hospital for further testing and monitoring.

Personally, I am doubtful of the circumstances of the "electrical shock," or indeed whether it was a shock, but I expect it will go into the statistics.

Regards
Paul

[Vernonv]

Personally, I am doubtful of the circumstances of the "electrical shock," or indeed whether it was a shockThere is a good chance it was -
1. I believe plasma cutter use quite a high open circuit voltage.
2. If the ground clamp was on the fixed end of the pipe (hence earthing that side), when the pipe was cut through, the helper may have become the "earth" for the loose end ... if only for a brief instant.

[BobL]

There is a good chance it was -
1. I believe plasma cutter use quite a high open circuit voltage.
2. If the ground clamp was on the fixed end of the pipe (hence earthing that side), when the pipe was cut through, the helper may have become the "earth" for the loose end ... if only for a brief instant.

Yep, my PC came with very specific instructions about earthing requirements and states that it is capable of giving the operator a decent jolt if this is not attended to.

[Bushmiller]

Thank you Bob and Vernon. It is in fact this information that I have been trying to find. A quick search on Google revealed nothing untoward regarding plasma cutting and the potential for electric shock.

I still find it slightly implausible that the helper could have received an electric shock that exited through his head without undue consequences. The boiler maker suggested he get checked out and the helper went completely unaided to the first aid officer.

Strange things do happen.

Regards
Paul

[BobL]

In a somewhat timely - or untimely - manner, in between this post and the last one, I was using my PC to cut out a 210 x 250 x 8 mm plate and after cutting two sides I had to reposition the plate. Went to strike an arc and instead got a slight jolt. turns out I forgot to reattach the earth to the workpiece. It was much less than a spark plug sort of jolt but it was definitely there.

[Bushmiller]

In a somewhat timely - or untimely - manner, in between this post and the last one, I was using my PC to cut out a 210 x 250 x 8 mm plate and after cutting two sides I had to reposition the plate. Went to strike an arc and instead got a slight jolt. turns out I forgot to reattach the earth to the workpiece. It was much less than a spark plug sort of jolt but it was definitely there.


Bob

There are clearly some issues with the device. I have only once used a plasma cutter to cut a piece of heavy stainless pipe: That was twenty years ago so I am completely unfamiliar with the machine.

Your "tingle" sounds very much less than a full blown passage of electricity through the body. I really hate electric shocks so take great precautions with the likes of removing spark plug leads while the motor is running and fiddling with electric fences. However, those are primarily voltage issues while it is the current that is normally the life threatening component and that danger increases with the rise in amps: The exception being that teeny milli amperage that interferes with the heart rhythm! I think it causes ventricular fibrillation.

Nevertheless, it is all a little disturbing.

Regards
Paul

[.RC.]

If it is illegal to do any electrical or plumbing work, the fittings should NOT be on sale in retail outlets but rather available only to qualified people on production of their appropriate licence.



Also it is not illegal everywhere, some states it is legal for people to fit plugs to cords... Other backwards states like Qld it is fully illegal..

I do my own minor electrical work, I do not touch fuse boxes or anything...

But an electrician is a long way away from here and costs a fortune just in travel costs... Plus I have seen plenty of dodgy work electricians do... At the moment I have discovered in the main meter box I have two sheds, one has a fifty amp breaker, the other a 35 amp.... Except they have been wired incorrectly, the shed that should have the fifty amp breaker is obviously on the 35 amp one as it is the one that clicks down sometimes when I run the welder...

I had three phase sockets incorrectly wired, some motors ran backwards on one plug, forward on the other.

In the house we had a power wire on a freshly installed light fitting not insulated and it contacted the light frame and blew the fuse..