Fine furniture oils

[Sambo1111]

Hi there,

I am currently experimenting with a mix of boiled linseed oil, turps and varnish as a finish for my furniture. I am very happy with the finish however i was wondering if there are any other oil mixes/combinations out there that have less of a darkening effect on the timber? danish oil? organoil? tung oil?

Any thoughts appreciated.

[LGS]

Hi Sambo1111,

Have a look here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/166948-cabots-danish-oil-formula-change/) for an evaluation of several oils. The varnish won't be helping the darkening problem I must say. Personally I like Organoil HBO, Wattyl Scandinavian (Natural Teak) Oil and Tung Oil mixed with White Spirit. Depends on what you want to do with the final product.

Regards,

Rob

[silentC]

I think most oil finishes will darken the timber, because they soak into the gaps between the fibres and change the refractive qualities of the wood. There are some 'natural' oils around that have less of a tint to them, but the colour of the oil itself is due to the suspended matter in it and this is what creates the protective coating, so I suspect the lighter the oil, the less suspended matter and therefore the lower the durability.

The clearest finish I have seen is automotive lacquer, which is 'water clear'. It sits on the surface like a plastic coating, which allows the light to reflect more naturally but it still makes the timber darker than when raw.

You could look at white de-waxed shellac.

The best you can do with any of the above is to retain the colour of wet timber though.

[Sambo1111]

What i like most about an oil finish is the matt/satin appearance, keeping the timber open grained and having a natural look and feel. I guess what i am looking for is a blend of oil which has the least yellowing effect and keeps the timber looking as close to the look of wet timber as possible.

[LGS]

I'm not sure I understand why it has to be a blend of oils. The result you want is available using either Organoil Hard Burnishing Oil or Tung Oil mixed 1:2 or 1:3 with White Spirit. You can get the same result using Wattyl Scandinavian Oil as well. Not Danish Oil.

It's the hard burnishing that gives the result and protection to the surface.

Here's some examples, more are available on my website.

Pic 1 is QLD Maple and QLD Walnut. done with HBO (Organoil)
Pic 2-4 are Jarrah with HBO
Pic 5-7 are figured Jarrah, Huon Pine partitions and Fiddleback Blackwood on a Watch Collectors box.

Regards,

Rob

[Sambo1111]

Thanks Rob,

I have been reading through your previous posts on this topic and am aware of the friction sealing technique. How do you control the gloss level of the finish? Does it come down to how hard you burnish/wet sand? So Organoil HBO and tung oil are the best choice for the least yellowing finish? How do these compare to the yellowing that is present with boiled linseed oil?

[AlexS]

I use Kunos oil cut 50% with Bio thinners, which doesn't seem to darken the wood much, and seems to stay pretty constant over time. It can be worked to a reasonable sheen by repeated buffing, or simply left with a satin finish.

[LGS]

Thanks Rob,

I have been reading through your previous posts on this topic and am aware of the friction sealing technique. How do you control the gloss level of the finish? Does it come down to how hard you burnish/wet sand? So Organoil HBO and tung oil are the best choice for the least yellowing finish? How do these compare to the yellowing that is present with boiled linseed oil?
You can control the gloss on the finish by selecting the appropriate pads. Burnishing is probably finished at around 1200 grit. The rest adds shine to the work. So I'd suggest taking the process through to 1000-1500 grit and see how it looks. You can get a good idea by looking along the boards and seeing what the reflection is like as you progress.

My feeling is that the varnish is contributing quite a bit of darkening to the current method. I have used BLO as a burnishing oil and it seemed to cope with the stress tests I gave it, but I haven't kept any samples to follow up on.

Finally, I use Hard Burnishing Oil because it contains Tung Oil, which is food safe according to the US FDA regulations. If people don't require food safety, I'm quite happy using Wattyl Real Teak (Scandinavian) Oil. I find that it gives better grain resolution than the Danish Oils that I've used and it gives a pleasant finish which only darkens slightly over time.

Regards,

Rob

[Sambo1111]

Thanks for all the info. I have just finished oiling up an offcut and i am very happy with the finish with my mix of BLO, varnish and turps. I put it next to a piece of the same timber that i spray lacquered with 30% satin around a year ago and the oiled piece is pretty much the exact colour. Not too much yellowing at all.

Another question. I have read before that oiling commercial veneer boards is not advisable. Is this because the turps based oil reacts with the adhesive?

[LGS]

The use of oil and the carrier it in contained in could damage the binding solution used for the veneer, but just as likely is that if you sand thin veneers, you risk sanding through to the substrate the veneer is mounted on.

Regards,

Rob

[Ozzie]

Hi all,
Hope this isn't hijacking your thread but I am currently building a cot and thinking ahead to the finishes would it be feasible (or even beneficial) to apply a wax over the oils that you have mentioned?

Wood being used is WA Sheoak and would like to retain near as possible the natural colour of the wood.
Have considered applying Cabots "Cabothane Clear" which is a Polyurethane but nor sure about the child safety aspect.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Ozzie

[LGS]

Hi Ozzie,There's no reason at all why you can't use wax over an oil finish. In fact it gives a nice lustre to the finish. If you do this, I'd recommend UBeaut Traditional wax (neutral) and allow about a week for the oil to cure before final waxing.

Good Luck

Regards,

Rob

[silentC]

Another question. I have read before that oiling commercial veneer boards is not advisable. Is this because the turps based oil reacts with the adhesive?
I used Scandinavian oil on a wall unit I built for my parents using veneered MDF. It's about 30 years old now and is still intact. I will say that using a penetrating finish on something so thin is probably not the greatest idea. It would be better to use a hard finish that sits on the surface.

[Ozzie]

Thanks for your comments Rob and Silent C.
What do you think about the possibilities of using wax over polyurethane such as Cabothane Clear?
Is possible and if so is it practical and / or beneficial?

Ozzie

[LGS]

Hi Ozzie,
Wax over Poly will give a softer appearance to the piece. More a subtle finish rather than a clinical gloss look.

Regards,

Rob

[AngelaPetruzzi]

From a practical point of view, why put a wax over aplastic...especially if it will receive some “wear and tear” e.g. babiesteeth.....and then, why use a synthetic petroleum product when there are healthier,more sustainable and natural products onthe market?
Re putting oils on veneer or similar... It will be dependanton the level of “penetration” and the veneer thickness up to the first gluelayer. Just oils, with no resins or waxes etc are thinner and may penetrate tothe glue layer that can then cause delamination. Oils with some sort of thinners,the same thing as one is only diluting the oil..which will mean that thethinner will be the one that may actually cause the delamination. Penetratingoils does not necessarily mean they will penetrate mm into the substratehowever they will connect with the timber pores, unlike varnishes thattypically sit on top of the timber due to the large molecular structure thatdoes not allow penetration. It all depends on the thickness of the veneer.