Steel Frame V Timber Frame

[Ree]

we live 300m from the beach, in termite heaven. we have already had trouble with the little blighters, and so were thinking of steel framing in our extension. however we have been told that it would rust in the salty air we have here. any pearls of wisdom would be greatly appreciated, as I am new to all this reno business.

[silentC]

The steel frames are galvanised plus they are sealed inside the cavity. They might rust where they have been cut though. I'd contact a manufacturer and see what gaurantees they give on the galvanising under your conditions. It doesn't last forever.

Maybe you'd be better with a treated timber frame? We're about to build in termite country and that's what we'll be using. Best thing I reckon is to concentrate on keeping them out. We got a quote on Termimesh for the piers and perimeter - about $2500 for a 36 square house. Might be slightly cheaper on a slab but you've got pipe penetrations there as well.

Looked at the steel frames but it seems too much trouble to me. All your electrical and possibly your plumbing has to have grommets fitted where it penetrates a frame member. Everything has to be screwed - no nails. Not a big deal but for me I'd rather bang in a nail than counter sink, screw and fill everything.

[Ashore]

If you do go with steel a tin of cold gal used liberaly on any cut or bared steel will help, though I wouldn't suggest you do this ar the end of the framing , but as soon as you can on the bare metal ,

The trouble with life is there's no background music.

[aussiecolector]

Cypress pine will keep the termites at bay in the frame at least. If they get in they will still eat the trims etc.

[Wombat2]

My son is a firey - they don't like steel frames. A timber frame when burnt - even chared right through still retains some strength and will remain standing long after a steel frame has weakened and collapsed from the heat (remember
9/11)

As mentioned cyprees pine and treated timber will keep the blighters at bay.

David L

[Ree]

what is the difference in expense and quality between cypress pine and LOSP? from your suggestions I think I've gone off steel frame, it just seems a bit too dodgy this close to the beach.
thanks for the good advice and feel free to keep it coming!

[Gaza]

Lsop is the way to go, is avablible off the shelf and most frame & truss guys having it in there yards expect to add about 20% to the cost of un-treated pine. It also comes with a warrinty from the treatment firm, so if it does get eatten its no problem for you, cypress you are just really relieing on the natural properties of the timber, plus it has heaps of big knots.

PS all enginered beams are now aviaible treated and same with plywood flooring or particle board and some hardwoods (EG Spotted Gum) come treated as well.

[Pestmaster]

SilentC is right when he says "Concentrate on keeping them out" Whatever your framing is, you still have lots of untreated timber (skirtings, window frames etc) and even the backing of the gyprock linings are edible to termites.
So have a talk with Termimesh to concentrate keeping them out first.

[Gumby]

Could you repeat that please................ :D

[Pestmaster]

My god but you're quick Gumby :p

[echnidna]

"that"

[Ree]

If I follow your advice and my paranoia on termites the house will end up like fort knox.
I like that thinking!

[Pestmaster]

To continue with the Fort Knox theme, have Termimesh installed to the perimeter and penetrations, then consider an exposed slab edge and then have the perimeter trenched and sprayed with "Termidor" You can also have a reticulation system installed at the same time so its simple to "top up" the chemical in the future.
Then sleep easy knowing that you've done all you can.

[Harry72]

Have the best of both worlds, build the house with a wooden frame on metal(real stuff not that thin galv crap)stilts

[silentC]

It also comes with a warrinty from the treatment firm, so if it does get eatten its no problem for you
Termimesh give a 10 year timber warranty as well, so if they get past the mesh and eat the treated pine, someone is going to have to cough up for it.

I had a chat to our local Termimesh contractor the other day. They have to be certified installers and Termimesh does spot check audits on them - they come on site and check their work. If anything goes wrong down the track, the subbie is liable, so it gives them a bit of incentive to get it right.

[Ree]

Hi all, Thanks for the advice. how are you ? does termimesh work on hi block houses iwould assume not

any advice on neighbours who have termites but won't do anything about them?

Ree

[silentC]

If a subbie disturbs the mesh then I'm sure Termimesh will come down on them like a tonne of bricks in the event of a claim. Make sure you tell them that if they disturb it you will chase them if the termites get in.

Whether it works in different situations or not is a question you should ask them. They have a web site: http://www.termimesh.com/

I still think the best system is a physical barrier. Reticulated systems require ongoing maintenance and purchase/use of chemicals. The way things are going, everything that works will end up being banned.

If your neighbour's house falls down, that's not your problem. You'll never kill off all the termites in the area, so it's best to assume they are always going to be there and take steps to stop them eating your house.

[Ree]

not sure how the whole quick reply/ post message thing works, please disregard this if you have already seen it.

would termimesh work on hi block house? i assume not. is a reticulation system good? we would only be able to do the perimeter.

any advice on neighbours who have termites but refuse to have their house treated? the yard is full of tree stumps and when building a new fence we pulled several out for her with backhoe. They were riddled with the crawlies! Quickly went round the house with dursban (don't know how good that was)
anyway she says she doesn't care if her house gets eaten, and she couldn't care if the other houses in the neighbourhood get eaten too!

once again, thanks for the advice

[Ree]

surely it's agaainst the law to do nothing if your house and yard are riddled with them?

[silentC]

I don't think so. You could ask your local council.

The thing to remember is that termites are a part of nature and if your neighbour has a nest somewhere, it's not really their fault. The nest could be anywhere - I think termites can travel hundreds of metres from the nest in the course of their foraging. Whose responsibility is it to get rid of them? The nest could even be on your property, so it might be your termites eating his house ;)

I put bait stations around our house but I have no idea where the nest is. I could be killing termites in a nest under a tree on the property 3 doors up, so why should I pay $80 a pop for the bait to kill his termites? The only reason I did that was because our house is old and it's too late to build a proper physical barrier, so we are trying to reduce the risk of them getting back in.

Don't fall into the blame game. We had a nest in an old tree once. The lady next door had a termite infestation which did a lot of damage to her house. We had the tree removed anyway but she tried to insinuate that it was somehow our fault because the termites were in our tree. The thing is, the termites in her house could have come from anywhere and we have no control over where they might set up a nest.

[Ree]

oh don't worry c we don't blame her, we would like to help her. she is an elderly widow whose husband always looked after her and now she has no idea how to get her pension out let alone what goes into maintaining her house.

we just have to be carefull we don't step on the toes of her family, who don't live here.

the lesson here is don't be too good to your partner, we may all need these life skills later on.

[silentC]

Ah, well that's different. If she hasn't got much money, she's probably not going to want to shell out for a full on termite treatment.

The bait stations I mentioned are expensive and they usually want to put you on a contract, which from memory is a couple of thousand. We did a deal with the guy and just paid him for the stations and agreed to pay for the baits as and when required. We sold the house, so not our problem any more. Even getting a chemical barrier in the ground around the perimeter will cost a bit. Last time I paid for it I think it was around $800.

Maybe you should put the bait stations in yourself then and hopefully that will kill the nearby nests, reducing the chance of further damage at her house as well as protecting yours. Then the state of the house becomes her family's problem when she is gone. ;)

[Ree]

thanks everyone for the wonderful advice, It really helps to get a bit of advice before calling the pro's. as a begginner i can never really tell whether i'm getting a bum steer or not.

i'm sure this won't be my last post, but it gives me confidence to know that there is a great bunch of people willing to give me an insight to their years of experience.

cheers ree

[rod1949]

During one of my many visits to the local Bunnings shop (Perth) I noticed they had hardwood named White Cedar (Canadian) with the same properties as Western Red Cedar. You may wish to check it out. Price wise it wasn't cheap but I thought reasonable.

It is a very white colour and by what I recall it had a very fine grain (as hardwoods do). I thought it would make some terrific furniture for those who had an inkling for the light colours.

[plucka]

Here's another option which I had on my recently built house:

http://www.granitgard.com.au/documents/GranitgardTechnicalGuide.pdf

Uses fine granite gravel as a barrier.