Impressive

[rrich]

I am comparing Tony Abbott to Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama.

We've been seeing Tony Abbott on CNN hosting press conferences about MH-370.

The view from here is that he is professional, dignified, competent and does not seem to shovel the road apples. I would say that you blokes are much better off than we are with your elected officials.

[scuzyboy]

Lol try living here under this rule don't worry all pollies are from the same cast full of mushroom food

[jimbur]

All I can say is that I'm sorry for the rest of the world if the lycra lad is the best on offer.:o

[rwbuild]

How many votes do I hear for Shorten, Rudd, Gillard

[FenceFurniture]

I would say that you blokes are much better off than we are with your elected officials.Perhaps, perhaps not. Perhaps that is always the case, because you don't have to be wealthy to get the top job here.

He has just lurched back to the good 'ole 1950s by re-introducing knighthoods and damehoods (which were booted out in the second millennium). He did not consult his Cabinet on this matter. He told a handful of colleagues what he was going to do. I would not call that progressive.

His sister is openly gay, yet he still resists gay marriage (as if it affects other people). One state (actually classified as a Territory) introduced gay marriage a few months ago. Abbot saw to it that a High Court (your eq. is the Supreme Court AFAIK) challenge was mounted, and had it killed off within a month or so. I would not call that progressive.

He has 1 woman and 18 men in his Cabinet. That is appalling. In the Outer ministry there are 7 men and 4 women. Parlsecs (Parliamentary Secretary) 1 woman and 11 men. Whips: 3 women and 6 men. Total in positions of authority: 9 women, 42 men. Total available (both houses) 25 women, 90 men. Remember - it only takes one woman to do the job of two men.

Before the election he touted one of his female candidates as having sex appeal. His daughters didn't seem to impressed.

HE is the Minister for Woman's Affairs. :doh: That is Stone Age.

He has abolished the Science Ministry. Uk-guk, but aren't we the clever country?

He has stopped the refugee boats - by towing them back into Indonesian waters, and turning his back on the problem. In this and other ways he has deeply offended the Indonesian Govt.

He has point blank refused to do extended interviews with tough journalists for some years, and continues to do so. Furthermore, he hides behind the line of "national security" when he refuses to discuss the refugee issue.

I have never seen a new govt get so many people offside in its first two weeks of life.

Nor have I ever seen a govt have a 5-6% swing against it within 6 months (which happened last weekend). It always works the other way around in such a short period. I should also point out that the Labor Party also had a similar swing against it, although marginally smaller. The continued swing against Labor would be expected, because they got thrashed out of Govt, and still haven't sorted themselves out properly. I suspect the swing against such a young govt may be unprecedented.

I am yet to see any fruit of this govt that I'm chuffed about. That may change in time, but after 6 months I would have hoped for something. It is unrealistic to expect to like (or indeed dislike) everything a govt does, but one does hope for something.

Should we have expected anything else from a govt run by an Abbot and a Bishop, with another Bishop controlling the House?

Make no mistake - all they had to do to win the election was to keep their mouths shut, and show up on the day, while the then govt continued to self-destruct. The Murdoch Press also got them over the line (I don't think anyone disputes that). There was no contest. We didn't deserve what the then govt had become, but we didn't deserve this lurch to the 1950s either.

It's not always about image - positive, decent actions count.

[fxst]

I believe political posts should not appear on this site as it is to volatile most times as people have fixed ideas on what constitutes good government. I will say, however that just because you are of a certain sex shouldn't automatically put you in a position. Being a woman won't automatically make you better at a job than a male.:no:
Pete

[jimbur]

Being a woman won't automatically make you better at a job than a male.:no:
Pete
Nor does the converse.

[FenceFurniture]

I believe political posts should not appear on this site Should be fine as long as it's kept polite within ourselves and not inflammatory.There was an excellent discussion on Gun Laws and control about 18 months ago, with both sides contributing well. Unbelievably, there was no hysteria, and some eye opening points made by both sides.



Being a woman won't automatically make you better at a job than a male.:no:Maybe not (and I was being a little facetious about the two men/one woman quip), but women represent more than 50% of our population, yet they get 16½% of the top jobs (ministers) in the federal govt, and have a MAN representing their issues. We shouldn't even need a special ministry for women's issues, but currently we do need one. The very fact that we do need one shows that things are imbalanced.

If we had a Minister for Men's Issues, can you imagine the outcry if the Minister was a woman, and the reception she would get?

[Twisted Tenon]

We've been seeing Tony Abbott on CNN hosting press conferences about MH-370.

Just curious rrich, have you seen him televised in any other forum? For me, it is easy to play the role of a concerned politician/leader in the circumstances of a lost passenger plane. It's the other stuff you may not see. He is the most divisive PM this country has ever had. Fencefurniture put the case quite succinctly.

TT

[rrich]

Just curious rrich, have you seen him televised in any other forum? For me, it is easy to play the role of a concerned politician/leader in the circumstances of a lost passenger plane. It's the other stuff you may not see. He is the most divisive PM this country has ever had. Fencefurniture put the case quite succinctly.

TT
TT,
An excellent point. Unfortunately I've not seen other press conferences. All that I can say is that in the press conferences that I've seen, Tony Abbott is head and shoulders above our local fare for the last 20+ years.

I guess what I'm saying is "That was impressive" while I've not been able to say the same for those 20+ years. Or put another way, once is better than never.

[FenceFurniture]

Well, it is at least a good thing that he is creating a good impression overseas. Politics is only about gaining power and fooling us anyway.

Evidence of that came in 2010 from Abbott, when we had a hung parliament (no clear winner with a majority in the lower house of Reps). One of the two major parties needed to secure the support of the 3 Independents. One of these Independents was Tony Windsor, who was one of our most credible politicians. He later said in The House that Abbott pleaded with him to get the the top job by saying "I'll do anything to get the job except sell my ar*e".

Abbott didn't deny saying it.

[Sawdust Maker]

TT,
An excellent point. Unfortunately I've not seen other press conferences. All that I can say is that in the press conferences that I've seen, Tony Abbott is head and shoulders above our local fare for the last 20+ years.

I guess what I'm saying is "That was impressive" while I've not been able to say the same for those 20+ years. Or put another way, once is better than never.

Interesting
most of what we saw and see of your leaders seems fairly impressive over here as well - I think on both ways we do not necessarily see the day to day stuff from the overseas pollies, that which would tend to make us more wary of them in the long (and) short term

[jimbur]

To balance things a little. A friend in the UK told us she was incredibly impressed by Kevin Rudd when he was overseas as PM. He was articulate and intelligent and didn't talk down to the audience or for the Murdoch press.

[A Duke]

Of course all the gender equality lot forget that Woman are the only candidates for the real top job, MOTHER.
Regards

[silentC]

I don't know, I know at least two blokes who took the job on as soon as the baby was old enough to be fed from a bottle, and I reckon they did all right.

[A Duke]

I don't know, I know at least two blokes who took the job on as soon as the baby was old enough to be fed from a bottle, and I reckon they did all right.

Hi,
If I was a woman I would say all the hard work was done by the time it was borne, let alone weaned.
:wink:

[silentC]

Well in that case, they can go back to work the next day!

I used to buy my coffee from a shop in Sydney. The lady who ran it was expecting and in due course she gave birth. She was back a week later, with the baby in it's basket sitting on top of a stack of boxes in the corner.

Contrast that with my mother, who was forced to give up her job when she married. Now that's the 50's mentality!

[FenceFurniture]

On topic (after an interesting diversion).

And then........we have this little gem (listen for the tittering in the background):

<iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/oep_DPDy6xw" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>


However, he may be wrong - it might just be him. One never knows.

[FenceFurniture]

An assessment of Abbott from the master of "on the ball":

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/vDXtT8RCui8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



From a former Prime Minister (on Abbott's side of politics):

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/1L66KhP0jYg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[silentC]

OK then getting really back on topic, comparing ours to theirs, we have Tony Abbot and they had George W. Bush. GW was the master of the malapropism, Tony could only dream of being that good. :)

[jimbur]

Being older I use Billy McMahon as the benchmark for ineptitude.

[Poppa]

I'm not a big fan of Abbott. He is a religious fanatic, an arch conservative, intellectually sluggish in discussion (watch him get asked a difficult question), inherently sexist, and I disagree with many of the things his government has done. However, in comparison with the leaders of the Labor party for the last 6 years he is IMHO the better alternative. Labor selects its parliamentarians primarily from the ranks of the leaders of the union movement (the majority of Labor's parliamentarians over the past 10 years have been ex-unionists, both in the senate and in the house of reps). The union leaders are proving to be more and more corrupt with every passing year. I firmly believe Gillard should have spent a long period in jail, and I'm also sure that Shorten is very aware of why she should have gone to jail. When Rudd tried to loosen the strangle hold the unions have on Labor's backrooms they got rid of him (although I'm not sure keeping him would have been any better for the country unfortunately). Some of the key backers of Gillard for PM are now under serious threat of going to jail in the current ICAC enquiry (and they should go to jail). While Rudd was in some ways a breath of fresh air from Labor, he was clearly very difficult to work with. And by the time he regained the leadership there was no way that Labor could have won against a donkey. Unfortunately there are many pollies on both sides of the house that are only in it for what they can get out of it. However misguided Abbott is, I don't think that is the case with him. And whatever we might think about the current boat people policy (I'm not a fan btw), there have been no people drowning in sinking boats off Australian shores for more than 3 months now. And if that upsets the corrupt Indonesian politicians I really don't care...

[Pat]

If Tony is "impressive" what about Malcolm?

Tony spends nearly every waking moment looking over his shoulder, for one slip up and Malcolm will take the lead . . . :;

[FenceFurniture]

If they'd have kept Malcolm for the 2010 election they'd have been a shoe-in. Abbot only beat Turnbull for party leadership by one vote.

Rudd's biggest political mistake was not going for a double dissolution election over the ETS (they'd have won handsomely) and the Labor Party's was knifing a PM that was popular - we objected, and told them so in the 2010 election.

[jimbur]

If they'd have kept Malcolm for the 2010 election they'd have been a shoe-in. Abbot only beat Turnbull for party leadership by one vote.

Rudd's biggest political mistake was not going for a double dissolution election over the ETS (they'd have one handsomely) and the Labor Party's was knifing a PM that was popular - we objected, and told them so in the 2010 election.
Exactly so.

[Twisted Tenon]

I'm not a big fan of Abbott. He is a religious fanatic, an arch conservative, intellectually sluggish in discussion (watch him get asked a difficult question), inherently sexist, and I disagree with many of the things his government has done. However, in comparison with the leaders of the Labor party for the last 6 years he is IMHO the better alternative.

So Poppa
are you saying that Abbott is the best of a bad bunch?

TT

[Bushmiller]

Well, it is at least a good thing that he is creating a good impression overseas. Politics is only about gaining power and fooling us anyway.

Evidence of that came in 2010 from Abbott, when we had a hung parliament (no clear winner with a majority in the lower house of Reps). One of the two major parties needed to secure the support of the 3 Independents. One of these Independents was Tony Windsor, who was one of our most credible politicians. He later said in The House that Abbott pleaded with him to get the the top job by saying "I'll do anything to get the job except sell my ar*e".

Abbott didn't deny saying it.

I think it was particularly telling that the three independents were all from a conservative background and you would have expected them to support the Liberals (who are really not liberal but conservative :rolleyes:), but clearly none of them could stomach Abbott.

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

TT,
An excellent point. Unfortunately I've not seen other press conferences. All that I can say is that in the press conferences that I've seen, Tony Abbott is head and shoulders above our local fare for the last 20+ years.

I guess what I'm saying is "That was impressive" while I've not been able to say the same for those 20+ years. Or put another way, once is better than never.


RR

Regrettably that is more an indictment of your people more than a vote of confidence for our bloke. If you want to see a diplomat in action, have a look at Malcolm Turnbull. I don't believe anybody on either side of Australian politics can hold a candle to him and yet he was ousted by the likes of Abbot and remains in the political doldrums.

I believe Abbott is the more articulate (just), Australian answer to George W. The primary difference is that Abbott knows where America is while Bush thought Australia was a bit to the right of Germany :rolleyes:

Regards
Paul

[smidsy]

If you really like Abbott you can have him - as a bonus (booby prize) we'll also throw in Campbell Newman (aka Can Do Campbell) the SOB premier of Queensland who gave us a tighten your belt speech days after he got a $70k pay rise.

[Poppa]

So Poppa
are you saying that Abbott is the best of a bad bunch?

TT

No, not at all. I'm saying that of the 2 main parties I would prefer to vote for the Libs at the moment rather than Labor, because I think the corruption in Labor is more endemic. Not that it is absent from the Lib side, just less entrenched and severe. Unfortunately I think both sides have too many that are only attracted to the job by what they can personally get out of it. I agree with a few others that Turnbull would be a better option than Abbott. I initially had high hopes for Rudd because I thought he might have a chance at taking on the corruption within Labor and fixing it, but alas that didn't work out.

[Twisted Tenon]

No, not at all. I'm saying that of the 2 main parties I would prefer to vote for the Libs at the moment rather than Labor, because I think the corruption in Labor is more endemic. Not that it is absent from the Lib side, just less entrenched and severe. Unfortunately I think both sides have too many that are only attracted to the job by what they can personally get out of it. I agree with a few others that Turnbull would be a better option than Abbott. I initially had high hopes for Rudd because I thought he might have a chance at taking on the corruption within Labor and fixing it, but alas that didn't work out.

I agree with those sentiments Bob. I believe that there is entrenched corruption in both sides of politics. I think the Lib's have covered their tracks well though. However I don't believe either party is corrupt, it's just that both have well entrenched bad apples that get expunged during a long spell in opposition. It's Labors turn now.

TT

[rrich]

Mates,
I sincerely apologize for stirring up this mess.
I only meant to compliment you on the dignity and professionalism of your elected officials.

As it was said, I only see the international side and unfortunately not the domestic side.

So as part of my apology, everyone should have an extra beer while I'll join you with a glass of some very good Irish Whisky.
(I'm just not a beer drinker.)

[FenceFurniture]

I sincerely apologize for stirring up this mess.
I only meant to compliment you on the dignity and professionalism of your elected officials.

As it was said, I only see the international side and unfortunately not the domestic side.No worries Rich - speaking for myself I was only pointing out what is likely to NOT be covered by the scant international media.

There's a further example of Abbott's mentality about to hit us in May, when the Federal Budget is due. We have long been warned that it will be the horror budget from hell, with NOTHING to be spared from cuts. That includes Disability Pensioners and the like.

However, no mention has been made of reducing or postponing his "Signature Promise" of paid maternity leave for (I think) up to 6 months, but it may be 12. Don't get me wrong - this is fundamentally an excellent idea. The only problem is that people earning up to $150,000 per year can still be eligible for a $75,000 payment. That $75k is the equivalent of about 3.5 people on a disability pension......

Those figures are from memory, and there may need to be adjustment, but that's pretty much the guts of it.

My point is: if you are earning $150,000 a year as the female in the partnership, then statistically speaking, your spouse more than likely earns that much and more. If a couple like that can't plan to have one person off for six months when they are earning that kind of stupendous money then maybe they need to sell the furniture, trade the house down, or otherwise sort their lives out.

If anything should be cut or backburnered at the moment it is the paid maternity leave scheme. It is estimated to cost $5 Bills a year.

[Twisted Tenon]

Mates,
I sincerely apologize for stirring up this mess.
I only meant to compliment you on the dignity and professionalism of your elected officials.

As it was said, I only see the international side and unfortunately not the domestic side.

So as part of my apology, everyone should have an extra beer while I'll join you with a glass of some very good Irish Whisky.
(I'm just not a beer drinker.)

No worries Rich. Our last few PM's have polarised public opinion somewhat :rolleyes: I'm impressed with the way this has been discussed on this forum though. Strong views expressed without personalising them. I don't mind the odd scotch so will have one tonight :2tsup:

TT

[FenceFurniture]

Oh man, this is just getting ridiculous. Our PM needs to sort out his priorities.

27th March, 2014:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-27/f35-joint-strike-fighters-unaffordable-us-committee-hears/5348414

and for those who can't get to the link, here is an edited version:
Australia's biggest Defence acquisition is currently rated as "unaffordable" because of reliability issues, a US congressional committee has heard.
Federal Cabinet's national security committee is expected to endorse the purchase of an additional 58 F-35s next month.
But the head of the JSF program, US Air Force Lieutenant General Chris Bogdan, visited Australia two weeks ago and declared the reliability and maintainability of the aircraft was not yet "good enough".
.......could see countries like Australia paying millions of dollars more per aircraft.
"We've looked at the reliability too and it is a really big concern now - it's very risky," the General Accounting Office's Michael Sullivan said.

And this morning:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-23/australia-to-buy-58-more-joint-strike-fighters/5405236
Australia will buy 58 more F-35 Joint Strike Fighters (JSF) at a cost of more than $12 billion after the Federal Government gave the go ahead for the purchase yesterday.
As part of the announcement, more than $1.6 billion will be spent on new facilities at air bases in Williamtown in New South Wales and Tindal in the Northern Territory.

That will have to be spent between now and 2018 when the first F35s arrive.

So, while it's cut-cut-cut for vital services such as pensions and education and god knows what else (but certainly a Science Ministry - eliminated), and it's spend Hee-YUGE on what would appear to be a bunch of $12 Billion lemons, a paid maternity leave scheme that has been panned as unaffordable, at least for the moment, by those who know (senior economists) , and a new Airport for Sydney (when we've managed for the last 30 years with one). :doh::banghead::ranting2:

Ludicrous.

[Poppa]

Yep agree, huge waste of money on the planes and the maternity leave. Ridiculous to spend that when our budget is in deficit and there are other priorities. I think the second airport is a good thing actually, and they'll probably outsource it to an external company and give them the profits for 30 years (which I disagree with on principle), so the upfront costs will be offset at least.

[silentC]

One thing governments are good at is wasting money. When some governments do it it's called 'waste', when some others do it its called 'stimulus' :)

I don't think you can put all the blame on Abbott though. He does have a cabinet. What are they for if he makes all the decisions?

[FenceFurniture]

.... they'll probably outsource it to an external company and give them the profits for 30 years (which I disagree with on principle), so the upfront costs will be offset at least.Yes that's correct Brian, but they will still be making large contributions to the surrounding infrastructure, such as roads etc, and that is pretty much forthwith as i understand it.

Sure, the Northern Road has needed an upgrade for a long time, but.....



I don't think you can put all the blame on Abbott though. He does have a cabinet. What are they for if he makes all the decisions?He's certainly not in the same league as Rudd for making decisions without consulting Cabinet. However, He consulted nobody about the Knighthoods (just told a few colleagues what he was about to announce), and the Maternity leave is his signature policy. As I recall there have been rumblings from other people on his side that it should be held back and scaled down.

And apart from that, he is the leader who has been bleating about what a sorry state the finances are in, so it's up to him to show correct and prudent leadership, and rule a few of these things out (or for the time being anyway). If he's so hell bent on getting back into surplus within 5 (?) years then the quickest way to do it is not spend such vast amounts of money on what are clearly much lower priorities.

A proper NBN Internet system is a real nation builder - all of those applications that will only be thought of when it is actually up and running - can't be qualified or quantified yet (when the wheel was invented nobody was thinking about cars). No, we'll water that down to the 19th C copper system and keep on spending millions and millions maintaining that into the foreseeable future. The copper system will be a choke point (think Dust Extraction) and the NBN will not be able to deliver it's full potential, or anything like it. Then they'll turn around and blame the previous govt for a crap slow system.

This Joint Strike Fighter thing is just crazy. It was the previous Govt who signed the contract (back in Fitzgibbon's day as I recall) but surely there is a clause(s) about performance standards and KPIs, and delivery times that could cancel the contract. I'd love to know what other countries who are ordering these planes are doing now (or intend to do).

What riles me the most is that Hockey (the Treasurer, whom I quite like as a person) accuses the previous govt of "spending like drunken sailors" when Abbott is is spending like a BiPolar on a hypomanic spending spree - spend up big on complete white elephant stuff, and have empty cupboards in the kitchen.

[jimbur]

I don't think you can put all the blame on Abbott though. He does have a cabinet. What are they for if he makes all the decisions?
It would be a 'courageous' decision for them to get rid of him so soon when they went along with his style of electioneering.

[FenceFurniture]

Heh heh......a forum member was here on Sunday picking something up. We had our usual brief summary chat of the current politics and he said "When Neville Wran dies it'll all come out within six months (the reasons behind his sudden resignation as Premier in 1986, at the height of his powers).

Bugger me if old Nifty Neville wasn't dead by Sunday evening! I have suggested to the said member that he start similar mantras about Abbott and Cambell Newman, but he said his preference was Murdoch and Alan Jones....:roflmao2:

[Bushmiller]

Heh heh......a forum member was here on Sunday picking something up. We had our usual brief summary chat of the current politics and he said "When Neville Wran dies it'll all come out within six months (the reasons behind his sudden resignation as Premier in 1986, at the height of his powers).

Bugger me if old Nifty Neville wasn't dead by Sunday evening! I have suggested to the said member that he start similar mantras about Abbott and Cambell Newman, but he said his preference was Murdoch and Alan Jones....:roflmao2:

Brett

There could be a wish/death list to follow. :D .

Mr Wran wasn't called "Nifty" for nothing I'm supposing. On the ABC last night in remembering him, they recounted the allegations of corruption, acknowledged that he stood down during the hearing and pointed out that he was cleared on all counts.

I found it interesting that they remembered him in that fashion. It was as if there was something else....

I guess we will see in about six months if your friend's predictions continue to be accurate :cool: .

Regards
Paul

[rrich]

One thing governments are good at is wasting money. When some governments do it it's called 'waste', when some others do it its called 'stimulus' :)



Hysterical!

SWMBO doesn't understand why I'm laughing.