New Forum suggestion

[dazzler]

Hi

would it be possible to have a "tool review" forum which is locked once the first one has been posted?

This is so that tool reviews can be posted but the thread remain uncluttered and much easier to search.

When searching for a specific items such as a Ryobi Thicknesser you end up with so many threads it takes a loooong time to get the info you need particularly when the thread gets hijacked or full of $#@.

If you wanted to find a specific review on a tool you could first search the tool review and at least any links would be easy to view. It may also lead to more people searching as many just give up.

just a thought

dazzler

[silentC]

Only downside I can see to that is that people often want to ask questions about the review or maybe about the tool/machine that weren't answered in the review. How would we do that if it was locked? I reckon a lot of the discussion that goes on following the actual review is just as valuable if not more so.

[B.J.Honeycut]

I'd have to agree with silentC on this one. The discussion is as valuable as the review. Surely the original review would be the first post and easy enough to find. Maybe some sort of standard for the title would help? Containing the word Review, the manufacturer, Model No (if aplicable) or description.

i.e. Title: "Review: Carbatec 8" Jointer"

That way you could do a search ;) on title only and get useful results.

[dazzler]

Hi

I agree with you both. However if you do a search such as "ryobi thicknesser" you end up with a huge result. Thats fine but most threads start out ok but then deteriorate particularly when hijackers get on.

You are right about more info being available as it is discussed so I am directing this as a more formal thing with a fairly strict order

such as "Ryobi Thicknesser" in the title and then a very specific review.


EXAMPLE EXAMPLE EXAMPLE

Triton Router

I have the new triton router. I paid $359 at bunnings Brunie Island.

Pros
very powerful, high quality manufacture, designed for and fits triton router table very well, bit change above table is a great feature. Dust extraction is very good.

Cons
Reasonably expensive, handles not very ergonomic, feels top heavy, black plastic baseplate easily scratched, plunge lock seems strange but okay with use.

Recommendations
I would buy this router again if used mainly for table use. In the table it is almost faultless. I would not buy it if I intended to use it hand held though.

EXAMPLE EXAMPLE EXAMPLE

Perhaps a protected field or proforma if that is possible. Might be off at a tangent here but think it might be of use. Say if I was interested in buying a tablesaw. I could search this forum for "tablesaw" and all the tablesaw reviews would come up.

If there were heaps I could limit it by "tablesaw 10" and find all the ten inch saws.

Or I could search by "tablesaw carbatec" or similar.

anyways thats what I'm talking about, a more structured fora.

cheers

dazzler:)

[adrian]

I don't think you can lock off a review thread after the first post unless the source of the post was not based on personal prejudice.
For instance, if I was to write a review of my experience of the MC900 lathe and it was to be held up as a bona fide review it would turn a few people off what most users seem to have found to be a good lathe for the price.
I would like to see more sub-forums such as Table Saw, Bandsaw, Lathe etc under the general heading of Machinery. If you look at this site you will see what I mean.
http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/
The reason for the sub-forums is that a general search on a particular item will result in the majority of posts being irrelevant such as a search for info on bandsaws finding - "my next purchase will probably be a bandsaw."
At least if there is a bandsaw sub-forum in Machinery you will know that almost all posts will be relevant. to the subject.

[ubeaut]

Adrian - There is already a Bandsaw sub forum under Tools and Machinery, you can find it on the first page of the forums.

The difference between our forum and the one you suggested is that we choose to show the sub forums on the front page rather than having the members search throught forum headings with a mess of hard to find sub forums listed in each heading. Not running down the other forum - But trying to find a particular subforum looks like a bit of a hard work to me.

Then again so is scrolling down the page looking for them. But I really don't think there is an easier way. If you wish our forums to look the same way as the others, click on the arrow button to the right of the forum header. We don't list all the subforums though.

Cheers - Neil :)

[adrian]

Adrian - There is already a Bandsaw sub forum under Tools and Machinery, you can find it on the first page of the forums.

The difference between our forum and the one you suggested is that we choose to show the sub forums on the front page rather than having the members search throught forum headings with a mess of hard to find sub forums listed in each heading. Not running down the other forum - But trying to find a particular subforum looks like a bit of a hard work to me.

Then again so is scrolling down the page looking for them. But I really don't think there is an easier way. If you wish our forums to look the same way as the others, click on the arrow button to the right of the forum header. We don't list all the subforums though.

Cheers - Neil :)
Sorry, I was using a "for instance" and picked the wrong one. :o
I wasn't suggesting that the basic look of the forum needs to be changed. The look is fine.
The problem as I see it is that the forum is now large enough for information to be more compartmentalised.
By way of explanation, when you set up a house you can get by with all your paperwork stuffed in a draw somewhere and there is no great problem when you search for something. You soon find, however, that the more paperwork you accumulate the harder it is to find something. Before long you are buying a filing cabinet.
You have seen from recent posts about the "do a search" mentality that people are having extreme difficulty finding relevent information. Try doing a search on 'tablesaw' and see the junk you have to wade through where people just mention a tablesaw when talking about other machinery.
As for the difficulty in scrolling through sub-forums, it's not rocket science. I have no doubt that many of the users of this forum have sub folders in their 'MY DOCUMENTS' Windows folder and use them frequently rather than scrolling through hundreds of documents which may contain letters, pictures, music etc.
At the moment there are 2225 threads in the Hand Tools and Machinery forum containing 21,031 posts. Jointer = 274, thicknesser = 300, bandsaw = 188, lathe = 153.
I think those numbers indicate a need for more specific sub-forums and I can't see anyone having a logical objection to clicking on a Machinery heading and being able to find a sub-forum dedicated to Tablesaws.

[outback]

Hmmph, whilst I thought my original input into this thread showed great thought, it seems it upset someone so got deleted, not to be put off by a minor inconvenience I'll have another go.

The problems with too many forums related to too specific subject matter are, as I see it at least as follows.

1. Input into these forums follows what happens in real life, a conversation meanders and changes subject along the way. At no time does someone blow a whistle shake his finger and make everyone talk about the original topic.

2. Some of the best input and most valuable information comes from this meandering. Someone follows a thread regarding say, saw blades, it drifts onto saw types, tables, and then fences, at this point someone jumps in with his or her own ideas and mods regarding a fence they have. Everyone shouts Brilliant and goes to the pub happy.

3. Too many forums, sub forums, dedicated forums will lead to the need for a Phd in forumism and the requirement to search for which forum is required before a search for a topic can be under taken. Woe betide any poster posting in the incorrect forum.

4. Whilst hijacking takes place, and yes my hand is up as a major contributor to this, the thing that sets this forum apart from others is the way in which banter, jokes, and jibes are allowed. I implore Neil, and others not to take this away and become forum nazis.

[Jack E]

would it be possible to have a "tool review" forum which is locked once the first one has been posted?

This is so that tool reviews can be posted but the thread remain uncluttered and much easier to search.

When searching for a specific items such as a Ryobi Thicknesser you end up with so many threads it takes a loooong time to get the info you need particularly when the thread gets hijacked or full of $#@.

I don't know whether to agree or not. It is getting more and more difficult to wade through the crap but as Outback said, this sets the forum apart.

Perhaps a thread dedicated to reviews only.
All the opinions, recommendations, discussion and hijacking could continue as normal.

If it aint broke, don't f*@k it, but improvements and additions are okay.

Cheers, Jack.

[adrian]

Hmmph, whilst I thought my original input into this thread showed great thought, it seems it upset someone so got deleted, not to be put off by a minor inconvenience I'll have another go.

The problems with too many forums related to too specific subject matter are, as I see it at least as follows.

1. Input into these forums follows what happens in real life, a conversation meanders and changes subject along the way. At no time does someone blow a whistle shake his finger and make everyone talk about the original topic.

2. Some of the best input and most valuable information comes from this meandering. Someone follows a thread regarding say, saw blades, it drifts onto saw types, tables, and then fences, at this point someone jumps in with his or her own ideas and mods regarding a fence they have. Everyone shouts Brilliant and goes to the pub happy.

3. Too many forums, sub forums, dedicated forums will lead to the need for a Phd in forumism and the requirement to search for which forum is required before a search for a topic can be under taken. Woe betide any poster posting in the incorrect forum.

4. Whilst hijacking takes place, and yes my hand is up as a major contributor to this, the thing that sets this forum apart from others is the way in which banter, jokes, and jibes are allowed. I implore Neil, and others not to take this away and become forum nazis.

I'm assuming that your post was in respone to mine. Apologies in advance if it wasn't.
You seem to have misunderstood my post. The fact that threads get hijacked is irrelevant. I wasn't talking about individual threads, I was talking about sub-forums. If you had a specific sub-forum on the most common pieces of machinery (for example) you don't automatically lose the ability to hijack a thread.
If you have a tablesaw sub-forum under the machinery forum then you can almost guarantee that all threads started in that forum will be about tablesaws. It doesn't matter whether the thread eventually gets hijacked as long as all the threads start out in the relevant forum. At the moment it's a real dog's breakfast. If you have a look on the General Woodwork forum you will see the following threads "The Jet-JWSS-10 table saw", "Sliding compound mitre saw ", "*** TSC-10HB Owners Please Read *** ". The presence of those threads in that forum means that anyone wanting info about table saws will have to search the entire board (not just the machinery forum) and trawl through 391 posts dating back to 1999. Most of which will be garbage where the word tablesaw is mentioned with no other information.

Quote:
"Too many forums, sub forums, dedicated forums will lead to the need for a Phd in forumism and the requirement to search for which forum is required before a search for a topic can be under taken. Woe betide any poster posting in the incorrect forum." Quote

I don't think you are giving users of the forum enough credit for being intelligent enough to grasp a simple concept. As I said, the idea of having a Machinery forum which has subforums such as Tablesaw, Bandsaw, WoodLathe etc is not rocket science and anyone who has used a filing cabinet can grasp the idea. It's the reason why filing systems were invented. The more information you gather the more precise your system of storage has to be.

The Woodworking Forum is becoming very popular and I think the UBEAUT guys already know that the volume of posts will eventually cause them to either pigeon hole them into various sub-categories or archive them. It would just be more sensible to do it sooner rather than later before the number of posts gets too large to make the search function effective.

[dazzler]

Hi Outback

What you say is correct. But all I am asking is one forum that is specifically for a review.

Solely dedicated to reviews so that if you are interested in a particular product you can find it. If you have a review then add it.

You are right that threads start out and then branch out in different directions and that is fine. Then comes the dribble and the stupidity but as you are keen to try and find out as much as possible about the product you need to wade through the crap. I am not asking to change the forums so those who want to post funny little replies can go ahead.

As you admit to being a hijacker of threads this may come as a surprise;

When this happens to the people who are genuinely interested in the discussion it really annoys them. It may get a little giggle from the hijacker but in the end just bores most stupid.

So here is my solution. A dedicated forum where this doesnt happen. There will remain enough open ones to pollute.

Dazzler

[craigb]

Well I guess the proof of the pudding is in the eating. If you manage to convince Neil to set one up for you, it will be interesting to see how popular it becomes.

After all a forum is only any good if people actually use it.



It may get a little giggle from the hijacker but in the end just bores most stupid.

Speak for yourself.

[dazzler]

Well I guess the proof of the pudding is in the eating. If you manage to convince Neil to set one up for you, it will be interesting to see how popular it becomes.

After all a forum is only any good if people actually use it.



Speak for yourself.
Sorry Craigb,

I THINK that most people who are genuinely interested in a topic get bored with the crap. That is probably why most just die away once the crap starts.

Thats what I think.

Sorry to anybody who I was presumptious enough to speak for.

cheers

dazzler

[knucklehead]

Dazzler sounds to me that what you really need is a blog.

If you "lock" a forum after a couple of entries its not a forum.

[dazzler]

Please explain what a blog is? Dont call it a forum call it a..........review section!

[knucklehead]

Dazzler, I have tried to explain it to a couple of people but their eyes glaze over and they say "yeh" a lot. A obvious sign that I am a complete failure when it comes to explaining anything.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon9.gif

so
http://www.blogger.com/start

Click on take a quick tour.

Hope that helps, try not to say "yeh" while your reading it.

[namtrak]

Why not just contact Dean at Online Tool Reviews (http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/)? He posts stuff here quite often, and Im sure he'll respond well to requests for reviews.

Cheers

[outback]

Dazzler,

Thanks for letting me know you think most of my contribution to this board is crap. I could, and indeed have decided to take this personally.
Whilst I am haapy to admit I let my wit run riot most of the time, it is in an attempt to bring humour to those who read.
If you find my posts boring, well, I guess you can please some of the people some of the time.

[Sturdee]

Usually a thread gets highjacked, pancaked or otherwise changed from its original intent :D because either the topic is boring or all that needs to be said has already been said and should no longer be allowed to continue boring us :D like this one.

On the other hand if a thread is interesting or educational it seldom gets highjacked.

As such Outback, Ozwinner, Grunt and others are doing the majority a favour by brightening their days. Keep it up when needed.


Peter.

[adrian]

Hear, hear! Pancakes for Outback, Al, Grunt and Peter. :D Raspberries for anyone who disagrees! :mad:

Well I suppose I'm going to have to get some of those raspberries because I disagree. It's one thing that's always annoyed about some of the threads that contain topical subject matter. Whenever some people have nothing more to contribute, instead of just leaving a thread alone they either ramble on with largely unfunny posts about their dietry preferences or plead with to close the thread. Very often their only contribution is to hijack the thread.
If you are bored with a thread or don't have anything worthwhile to contribute, leave it alone and go on to a thread that interests you.

[journeyman Mick]

I like these forums, the humour and cameraderie. I reckon it woulod be pretty boring if hijacking and jokes were disallowed. Sure there's people that come onboard and just want their questions answered and not have to sift through a lot of seemingly irrelevant stuff. But a lot of the hijackings and jokes come from regular contributors anyway, so if they were told to can the jokes and the hijackings they might can the rest of their contributions too. Personally I reckon I've posted more than a few helpful posts (and my fair share of jokes and hijacks) but the reason I keep coming back is not that I want to answer building and renovation questions, but because I enjoy the company. I think this would be a poorer place without all the humour and hijackings.

I've made an analogy previously about this being a virtual woodies clubhouse, with people milling about showing off their jigs, denonstrating their sharpening techniques and cracking jokes. If you're sitting round with a few friends, maybe with a drink in hand and you start discussing, say, the relative merits of a particular tool or technique and the subject swings around to something else related, then drifts a bit more and a bit more until you're talking about something entirely unrelated, well that's how discussions go. You can always interject and ask another related question to try to redirect the discussion. Perhaps the reason the discussion has drifted anyway is because no-one has any thing more to add on the original topic. Of course there's nothing to stop someone coming on and posting something back on topic anyway.

Asking to lock a review thread after the first post would:
a) make more work for him (it's amazing he manages to get any paid work done on top of all his hard and unsung work here)
b) possibly be rather unbalanced - I could come on and say "I bought X and I had problems and I reckon it's junk" and then that would be locked, probably not very helpful and definitely not balanced if ten other people ahd good experiences.
c) the act of lockong the thread, if it's a particularly unfavourable review, might be seen by the manufacturer's legal people as endorsement of that view by this BB's owners/moderators and make them a target for litigation.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

End of rambling rant

Mick

[dai sensei]

... but because I enjoy the company. I think this would be a poorer place without all the humour and hijackings ...

Mick
I also may not like all the jokes and hijacking, but I agree with Mick. Wouldn't life be boring if we were all the same.

[craigb]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.



Yep. That sums it up for me. :)

[Studley 2436]

Raspberries go really well in a sugar syrup. Then you can put them on your pancakes. Actually sould go OK on a sticky date too. Aaron Maree has a good sticky date recipe in his book I am pretty sure. Even if he doesn't he is a master of sweets and chocolate recipes so just get anything you find of his.

What were we talking about sugar syrup.....,mmmmm yes well pour some water in a pot chuck in a heap of sugar heat it up swirl it around time to time and it will go to syrup. If you stir it goes into crystals which are crunchy and not nice to eat, then just chuck in the raspberries and hit the thing with a staff blender run it through a strainer to get the pips out and dump it on your pancakes. Very good with coffee and friends.

And by the by I don't think that this forum really needs to be changed it is doing pretty well as it is.

Stevo

[Driver]

Col
Why haven't you posted on your thread lately? :eek:

Jim

Mate! It's not my thread - I only started it. And the reason for the lack of contributions to the RITFOTU this week is that my creative juices have been fully diverted into writing some stuff that will actually go towards crust-earning. :)

However, fear not!

But wait .....What's that slow, heavy, shuddering, thumping noise? Could it be .... a T Rex .... or something much worse :eek: .. Oh No! ... I think it's the Mother Farcquar!!!!! :eek:

[silentC]

Whenever some people have nothing more to contribute, instead of just leaving a thread alone they either ramble on with largely unfunny posts about their dietry preferences or plead with to close the thread.
Humour is such a subjective thing, don't you think? I admit that a lot of the time I post for my own amusement and I don't really take into consideration whether others will find it amusing or not. Basically, I'm a smartharse on here as I am in person. My barometer is how many black eyes I get ;)

Nah, bugger it. There's plenty of straight laced forums out there for those who want them. Leave this one alone. I know if I need an answer to a question I'll get any number of really good ones and a bit of sh!tstirring Aussie humour thrown in for free.

[Driver]

Mick's analogy of the clubhouse is spot on.

The best kind of group to belong to is the one where you know you've found people who share your interests - including some genuinely knowledgable experts - and where you've got to keep your wits about you because of the one or two slippery bastards who delight in taking the **** when it all gets a bit earnest.

Don't change a thing. This BB is the best virtual clubhouse around.

[adrian]

It seems that you're not enjoying yourself on this BB.
I don't know what gives you that idea. The quote of mine you used does nothing to indicate that I am not enjoying the forum. It must be the fact that I object to the childish habit of some members to hijack a post because they have nothing intelligent to contribute. It's like a kid in a playground who wants to stop everyone playing a game that he doesn't want to play, just so they will play with him.

Humour is such a subjective thing, don't you think?.
I agree, but not the same joke day after day. Look back in this thread and find out how the hijack occurs. It's not a comment made in a relevant post that someone has latched onto in order to take the discussion in another direction. It's purely designed to stop the thread. I don't know why the thread was intentionally hijacked but PLEASE!!! do it with something new.

94 posts containing the word pancake.
142 posts containing the word pancakes.
Give it a rest guys. It's like Benny Hill reruns.

PS. Back to the original discussion. For all those guys who don't like the idea of sub-forums and don't understand why they are necessary, make sure you post all your questions about Marquetry and Pen Turning in General Woodwork. That way when the more experienced members post a "DO A SEARCH" it makes it a lot easier for new members to do a search if everything is in the same forum. :rolleyes:
DAZZLERS original idea was good (minus the lock) if they can get an unbiassed contributor.

[adrian]

I think that some people have had a humour bypass Col.

Sad, but there you go. :(
Thanks for the negative reputation points.
The following quote from the FAQ area might be helpful.
"Negative reputation should be given if the person is posting something that detracts from the conversation. If the post is rude, inappropriate, breaks forum rules, is not gracious, etc; these are all good reasons to give negative reputation.

If you have a personal grudge against someone, it is not appropriate to give them negative reputation for no reason. Giving negative reputation because you don't agree with what was said is also inappropriate use of the reputation system. People are entitled to their own opinions, just because you don't agree doesn't mean the user was wrong or not contributing to the conversation.

Administrators and moderators, take 20 points per hit. Administrators have the power to take away as many points as they deemed necessary for violations."

The only other time I've had negative reputation points was by Sturdee in the "Thanksgiving.... here???? " thread and I deserved it because I insulted peoples Christian beliefs. In fact it's amazing that I didn't get more. I think save me with a well aimed edit.
I'll make that my last contribution to this particular thread because, as usual, the intentional hijack has heated things up.

[dazzler]

Hi All

My apologies to anyone that has been upset by my suggestion. Had I known it would have caused so much angst I wouldnt have done it. But anyway whats done is done.

I am not asking you to change your behaviour or how to behave. I dont recall asking you to do this. My suggestion was that a new forum be added to assist those who are after specific information and want it quickly.

My reason for this is simple. I work long hours by necessity and spend my free time actually building things. I dont spend a lot of time online so when I do it is usually to find out a specific answer, ask a question or browse how to do things. It is frustrating when you go back to a forum that you are interested in and have to read irrelevant crap that seems to stop the thread.

Once again I am not asking you to change or how to behave. I put up with it.

However once you need to search something specific its a dogs breakfast and that information is lost amongst irrelevance. It is annoying so instead of complaining and asking you to stop I came up with an alternative suggestion for one forum. There would remain another 47 forums for you all to enjoy.

I imagined that there would be others out there in a similar situation to mine, however apart from Adrian all is quiet so perhaps I am in the absolute minority. Hey thats life.

This site is used very differently to many others in that they generally run a chat channel for the kind of banter that goes on here. To understand where I am coming from go to thesamba.com and see how it runs.

I am not asking to change the way this runs except for one simple forum as explained above to cater for specific reviews of a product. So everyone can add a review of what they have, good and bad, so that those who want to know can find out easily.

Anyway, it was just a suggestio, not a personal attack.

dazzler