MEMBERS DECLINING

[plantagenon]

I have mentioned this before to 2 moderators and I feel it is necessary to mention it again. I have been on the Pen Turners sub-forum recently and the general consensus it that there are fewer members posting and commenting on posts. Although, not a member, I have been told the metal workers sub-forum is suffering the same fate.

The question is why? The answer is simple. Facebook are stealing the members because they have live chat rooms. How do you correct it? Again simple, put a live chatroom for the sub-forums on here and they will come back in droves. That is the feed-back I have been given when asking the members why they are using FB instead of WW Forums.

I hope other members comment on this to give an indication if this is right.

[gawdelpus]

I have to agree Greg, some mention of this problem has been made by others ,as suggested a live chat may address this problem to an extent ,we live in an age of instant contact,seems folk want contact and be contactable any time anywhere :( . In case the world somehow passes them by . I think a few folk are highlighting there work with a view to sales as well, and if it works for them good luck :). The forums have had a recent huge upgrade and I am sure that a chat section merely needs enabling (most forum software has a lot of built in capabilities ,not always utilised ) One obvious outcome of a live chat is it usually needs some sort of moderation else it can degenerate into a free for all ,not that any of the members of this forum would be so unaware of good form and behaviour hehe, cheers ~ John

[China]

Anyone who uses Facebook does so at there own risk facebook has huge security problems and they have no intension of rectifying them they also gather your information and pass it on to who ever they seem fit, I for one will have nothing to do with them.
Live chat forums have no interest to me either I know this most likely puts me in a minority

[DJ’s Timber]

Only answering now as Neil (uBeaut) is quite often busy and cannot often reply till the early hours, but I can tell you that Neil has looked into it numerous times and it isn't as easy as it looks, needs to be compatible with current vBulletion software and also within their requirements to be covered for backups/support and unless you've got an endless credit limit, it's just not gonna happen overnight.

[Nai84]

I use Facebook regularly never had any security problems as long as ur settings are correct u will be fine :-D

I agree with Greg tho a live chat room would be good to interest of that's for sure. I know that it wouldn't happen over night like u said DJ but definitely away of the future I think ;-) imo


Thanks
Ian

[BobL]

Maybe it's just me but I cringe when I think of the countless hours of my life lost in my years of inane participation in the chat rooms of a number of craft related forums.
At one point my wife even had to get out of bed at 2am to close the study door because I was yelling at my PC because of what an eedjet was writing in a chat room :D
I don't mind if there are not a lot of members/posts in any given forum as it allows me to easily keep up with what's going on.
Of course this does not help Ubeaut pay the bills so if chat rooms are deemed good for the bottom line of the forums then so be it.

BTW I hear FB was starting to be on the nose for the younger generation because too many grannies and pops were participating.

Any this is what I think of FB.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=304469&stc=1

[Michael G]

I have been on the Pen Turners sub-forum recently and the general consensus it that there are fewer members posting and commenting on posts. Although, not a member, I have been told the metal workers sub-forum is suffering the same fate.

I'm with Bob - wouldn't use a live chat facility if it was there. I spoke to one of our MW members a while back as he wasn't posting as much and his comment was that it was becoming too much like a men's shed with general chit-chat and not enough projects being posted. A forum reflects the general will of its members, so perhaps it is just that our membership is tending social rather than project.
We also need to recognise that in this day and age people being involved in hobbies that produce physical things is getting less and less common, so perhaps we are just reflecting the community trend in general.

Michael

[Big Shed]

Maybe I'm showing my age, and my ignorance, but what is a live chat room?

I'm not on Facebook, been trying to avoid it, my wife is because it is an easy way to keep up with family and friends spread across this country and the world.

Given my complete ignorance I cannot express an opinion, for or against.

[gawdelpus]

Fred Live chat is a small app that runs within the framework of the main program ,opens in a separate window and is text only in most cases ,it runs in real time and just scrolls continuously as more text is added ,usually has a private room for members to discuss things away from the main page ,can be setup for members only access for exchanging real time ideas or help, unlike PMs which may take a while to get through to another member . Some sites have it on the main page ,live all the time, but I would not advocate that as it takes valuable space :) , We spend a lot of resources at the wood shows to try and interest new members (at least U-beaut does) hehe, another feature that might help is live chat . Seems these days communication to be successful has to be quick and convenient ,and members can keep there anonymity and still be contacted , cheers ~ John

[plantagenon]

Hi Fred. A live chatroom simply means that you see the message the second it is typed and can reply instantly. It happens in real time and there is no delay in posts. It also allows a number of people to become involved in a discussion, again in real time - much like a conference telephone call. There is very little moderation other than booting a person off the site if they become obnoxious or alternatively individual members can block the person so they don't have to read their rantings. Oddly enough, there is little problem with people playing up in more mature groups on FB. There may be difficulties with software preventing it from happening here and there is also the cost factor. It appears Neal has looked into it. However, it amazed me the number of people who used to post on the Forum who now use the faster FB chat rooms - simply for that reason - its fast and its a bit like having a real time conversation with someone (other than you have to type). Still it is an issue that should be considered as its a matter of keeping up with the times.

[plantagenon]

John and I must be posting simultaneously. His explanation was better.

[Big Shed]

John and Greg, thanks for the explanations.

However I don't understand the reference to "instant". As I type this and hit the Submit button it "instantly" appears on the forum for you to see and respond to, how can it be more instant?

[Big Shed]

John and I must be posting simultaneously. His explanation was better.

Must have been "too instant"?:;:D

[LGS]

Could it be that the current topics for discussion aren't relevant to some people, or that some just don't want to post?
It could even be that people have simply moved on and don't post at all, here or elsewhere.

LGS

[wheelinround]

Live Chat has been around long before Facebook and was and still is popular in all those aspects such are ICQ, Yahoo, Hotmail, Google, Skype and many more the general bods don't here about.


I use live chat and have in the past the want or need to do so comes and goes.

Myself I am finding in many forums splitting up into never ending sections is the biggest cause of loss of interest, having to search each section for what your after its like a politicians committee it gets lost in the depth.

[gawdelpus]

I just did a quick search on google , this might be a better explanation for the positive side of live chat :) CHAT ! (http://www.123flashchat.com/vBulletin_chat.html)

[chambezio]

The wife is on Face Book ALL DAY. Seeing on the TV what can happen to kids who are picked on at school and then on FB when they get home has given me a distaste for FB.
As Fred has said this Forum is instant enough for me as it is. We are not tied to this machine in front of us and most would be away from it in their sheds doing what they do in there. Coming back to the computer during a break away from the shed to see whats going on. I use the Activity Stream and have a look at the Metalwork section, General Woodwork, Woodturning etc etc. I am always amazed at how quickly a question gets answered by more than one person. That fact alone tells me that there are a lot of members "hovering in the wings" most of the time so a FaceBook type set up is not warranted (IMO)
Personal problems are discussed here with care and dignity. A few times I have "spilled my guts" and within a short time I have been comforted by members that have had similar experiences.
I would not like to see a change as I am happy with the present format

EDIT PS..... I meant to mention too that when I was looking for a particular subject in past Posts that a lot of avatars are not seen on recent Forum traffic. Maybe that they just got tired of the Forum and moved on. Another thing that captured my feeble brain was the general age of contributors is over 50. There seems to be more "older members" than younger ones. Age doesn't seem to a problem though because responses to problems raised in the different categories are answered in a way that doesn't make you feel like a fool for asking that question
I have said before just how important this Forum is to me. I don't think I would be where I am today if it wasn't for the Forum and all the good people in it

[Big Shed]

OK, so all this talk about Facebook prompted me to go and have a look what all the fuss is about. I might add I have done this a few times before but never came up with a good source of information.

Basically if you type Facebook in to Google you get, obviously, Facebook as a first hit.

304484

It invites you to login or find out more

So you click on one of the options and you are told to join if you want to know anything

304482

click on the other option, same result

304483

Is this a secret society, do I need to join first to get the secret handshake?

[snowyskiesau]

Live chat is just a competition won by the fastest typist, not the one with something interesting to say

It's all to easy to get angry and/or upset over a message and dash off a quick answer without thinking, I like to take a bit of time to consider my reply or even if a reply is warranted.

Perhaps the drop in posting here shows that more people are actually enjoying their hobby rather than talking about it?

.

[A Duke]

:noway:
Don't need it, don't want it.
FWIW
Regards

[PenTurner]

Greg, thanks for posting, it shows your genuine desire to continue a valuable Forum.
For me a "live chat" is me calling you on the phone and asking where I put the gouge? it was in my hand ten seconds ago and now it has disappeared!:)
When the Forums were thriving, we didn't have live chat! Mind you there were plenty of non descript, empty comments like, "nice one"! however, in general, there was a sincere and genuine interest by most to encourage and help others. Unfortunately, it also encouraged sharks and scavengers ready and eager to grab every new bit of info to use for themselves and in return put nothing back in.!:((
The financial situation in our nation has had an averse affect on us all, but let us keep our chins up, let us continue to encourage each other and help others, this is our Australian heritage, when times are tough we stand side by side and help each other,:2tsup: and if I can help you, just let me know, I will try my best. Amos:)

[NCArcher]

Also not interested in live chat.
Other forums I'm on have this feature and it is dominated by the people who have the least to contribute and trolls trying to get someone to bite. Thankfully it can be turned off so you don't have to see it.

[jhovel]

No interest in live chat here either.

Cheers,
Joe

[Willy Nelson]

Ladies and Gentlemen
I found this thread just recently and thought I would throw my two cents as well for discussion

Don't know what live chat is, but had a look around and decided I don't want it.

Facebook, had a look around, researched it and found Facebook own and control everything. No wonder their is so much identity theft as people put their whole lives online and tell the world their business, what they had for lunch and where they work etc. Not theft when they are giving it away.

So, when I don't look on Ubeaut for a week or two, sometimes I am dispointed that there isn't much new. Othertimes I am spell bound by massive logs being milled, stunning bowls and platters made by little old men in sheds around the world, and stories that make safer, laugh or think.

So, what can we do? I constantly refer people to Ubeaut as a reference source for info, assistance or showing off. Maybe if more forumites promoted this site, we would have more members. I am the moderator for the Australian Defence Organisations Woodworking forum. Believe me, the restrictions placed upon people there are extremely conservative, and for good reason.

Enjoy, read, contribute and promote Ubeaut

Sincerely
Willy
JArahland

[ubeaut]

Forum stats show that posts for Jan were down by around 8% on Jan 2013, 9% on 2012, prior to that the forums were on a steady incline.

This downswing somewhat reflects the usage of mobile devices and the inclination to read rather than respond and are inline with a big clean up of the forums over the last few years, getting rid of troublemakers and containing the masses of drivel, etc. We still have around the same usage actually slightly higher for the same period just a few less posts.

The pen turners forum (so I'm lead to believe) is always down somewhat in January but has recovered already. This is from another party not my observation.

From my understanding, most forum that have implemented chat rooms etc have just about ground to a halt. As the chat rooms take over the posts dwindle dramatically. The chat room has to be stringently moderated because they tend to attract nutters who arc up at the drop of a hat and are a feeding ground for trolls and drivel. They also tend not to generate any income and without income a forum can't survive.

Just the switch to mobile devices has dropped forum income to the point where I am about to start paying out of my own pocket again to keep them running. I'm sure this isn't the end of the decline in forum use but our new translator program that is slowly but surely working it's way through the thousands of posts will possibly start to make a difference in post numbers over the next few months as more people become aware of it and translations speed up.

Cheers - Neil :U

[BobL]

As I said in an earlier post I have spent a lot of time in craft type related chat rooms.

The majority content of these chat room chats consisted of: greetings , weather in your location, personal exchange or enquiry, inane questions, brief responses with limited reflection, circular discussions, wandering off topic, arguments or rebuttals, goodbyes and reasons for leaving, i.e. have to go and feed the chooks. In short the amount of useful information was very slim bordering on none - and then what happened to that info after the session - of course it vaporised so no one could go back and access it. Thank goodness in a way because why ANYONE would want to trawl through all that drivel anyway is beyond me.

Socially I didn't think the ones I participated in were all that successful either.The chat room might have had a dozen participants but only 2 or 3 people were providing any input.
At times the groups got quite cliquey and treated newbies poorly or just ignored whatever they wrote.

I'm not saying chat rooms can't be useful, - what I'm saying is the ones I participated in were really just social gatherings. If I want social time I call up a few mates and go for a beer or a coffee.

[bloomers]

I have no interest in live chat either. I come to the forum, search, find information and move on. If I wanted to ask a question, I would normally check the next day for responses. Most of my interaction with the forum is in the form of research.

Of course, if I was having a heart attack, live chat might be useful to get the number for 911:;

Glenn

[ubeaut]

Of course, if I was having a heart attack, live chat might be useful to get the number for 911:;

:rotfl:
Just in case your heart does actually attack you, the number for 911 is 000

[shedbound]

I have no interest in live chat either. I come to the forum, search, find information and move on. If I wanted to ask a question, I would normally check the next day for responses. Most of my interaction with the forum is in the form of research.

Of course, if I was having a heart attack, live chat might be useful to get the number for 911:;

Glenn
In this case yes it might be handy, 911 may not do a great deal of good in an emergency in Australia:U

[wheelinround]

With this countries love for everything US and them taking over 911 will be the be to call





Its amazing how many forumites are using Facebook including mods, sponsors and world renown Pro's by no means does it mean i am in favour of a Live Chat here on this forum.

[A Duke]

The new "thanks for the post" and "like" buttons will have cut the number of posts as you don't have to post to say :2tsup:.


304492
Regards

[michael_m]

The new "thanks for the post" and "like" buttons will have cut the number of posts as you don't have to post to say :2tsup:.

Regards

This is true for me. I don't say a huge amount at the best of times (generally because most people know more or do better work than me), but a lot of the small responses I used to make like "nice work" "looks great" "thanks for saying that" I now make by pushing the thanks or like buttons instead.

[steamingbill]

Hello,

For me the forum as it is is infinitely better than chat.

I can search on keywords to see whats been written on a topic in the past

There are discrete thread lines in a well defined logical framework of forums - I know where to go if I want to find out about pen turning or weeding my rural block or renovating my 9"Hercus.

I use Facebook to keep in touch with my nieces, to have a permanent place where friends can find my contact details if they lose them, as a backup for photos for insurance purposes

From my point of view Facebook and chat have their uses and so does this forum, for me they are very different things.

Lots of different people in different time zones can easily respond to the same thread, you have to be "there and then" to respond to a chat.

However if the forum ceased to exist due to loss of income I would be ticked right off.

Would a $XX per year membership fee help ? Or would that simply just drive more people away.

If the forum is under threat, I'd be happy to pay a fee for access to this forum.

Regards

Bill

[Bushmiller]

Thank you to Plantagenon for raising the issue.

Initially I was a little concerned about the statement "Members Declining." I have been feeling a little weary lately, but fundamentally attributed it to the hot weather, which increasingly seems to take it's toll in a way I was previously unaware. However, on opening up the thread I realised it was only the numbers to which Greg referred.

That was something of a relief I can tell you :rolleyes:.

I think many issues are raised by the discussion.

Firstly: Are the numbers in real decline and exactly how are we evaluating that? For example I recently met a Forumite who had been a passive member, purely reading posts, for some while without contributing. He has decided to post now and recently assisted Chambezio and I with a delivery problem.

Neil has alluded to the fact that "readership" might not have changed a lot.

Gawdelpus makes a very valid point that the new "Thanks" and "Likes" buttons may well reduce the numbers of "minimalist" posts we see. Consequently, posts may not be a significant way of defining Forum useage for future. However, I have to say that this has only been in place for a week so it has hardly had time to influence posts at this point in time.

As to the introduction of chat rooms, well, in my ignorance I had always supposed this was where you "chatted somebody up." So thank you to those of you who have put me straight on that :-.

I have to declare a distinct prejudice against such institutions, which has already begun with Facebook. I have never participated on Facebook and probably never will. I say "probably" because of the quote that "man cannot say what he will or won't do without arrogance." (Just keeping the door open :wink:.)

I see mindless useage of Facebook, which frankly does not interest me in the slightest.

Having said that, Chambezio's comment that there are a disproportionate spread of users over the age of 50 has to ring a bell somewhere. If no new blood is coming along and no new woodworkers emerging there will come a point where the Forum will start to decline. I believe it is quite likely that the popularity of the Forums will roller coaster. That is natural. I also believe that like any business the Forums must be aware of dynamics in the market.

I can't see, from others description of "chat room" apps, that it would be productive for the Forums, particularly as Neil has explained that it does not increase revenue and in fact could be counter productive. I have stated before that when I see "sponsors" or "advertisers," I say a silent thank you, because I know they are allowing me continued free access to the Forum. (This is my publishing background from a former life resurrecting itself :) .)

Sponsors only participate if the membership is there. That's the rub.

So again, thank you to Plantagenon for raising the issue. "Chat rooms" may, or may not be the answer but possibly something else is. We shouldn't close our minds to progress and new technology and it is very fitting that the membership is sufficiently mature to discuss this openly.

Naturally, in the final analysis it is not our decision :cool:.

Regards
Paul

[delbs]

When i first started using this forum i accessed it via my laptop or website via ipad and it was fine. No problems at all full functionality and no issues browsing to the auction/market place.

Since i started using tapatalk (im no way implying this is Woodworkforums.com fault) it has taken my browsing experience to a below average rating. I cant view the Auction/market place and little quirks about browsing around just simply annoy me. The mobile version of the website doesn't work for me either. I just don't like it to put it bluntly.

I know that change is good and it needs to happen to add more functionality and better accessibility but i just like the original interface and since i dont use it on my phone i simply need to get off my backside and get on my laptop to continue posting properly :)

Cheers,
Delbs

[plantagenon]

Very true, it is not our decision to make and I agree with that. However, a little discussion doesn't hurt. It is interesting this post has generated so much discussion - good to see people coming out of the woodwork (pun intended). :;

[BobL]

Very true, it is not our decision to make and I agree with that. However, a little discussion doesn't hurt. It is interesting this post has generated so much discussion - good to see people coming out of the woodwork (pun intended). :;

Yep, a good point to raise even if some of us are not enamoured by it.

[Sturdee]

:rotfl:
Just in case your heart does actually attack you, the number for 911 is 000

But in Victoria 911 on a mobile will still work as well. :U

Peter.

[Brandavino]

Let them go to "Fakebook" what organisation would encourage antisocial behaviour that actually kills. Why do we stay part of this sleeze operation. It's not a necessary part of a happy life. Seriously affecting moral standards of society. Even some of the young ones are seeing the pain and dropping out of "Fakebook". Ron


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Chesand]

But in Victoria 911 on a mobile will still work as well. :U

Peter.

I believe 112 also works as a secondary number from a mobile but not from a fixed line.

[Colin62]

The reason I'm not in favour of live chat is because it becomes almost impossible to find the genuinely useful nuggets of information. I much prefer being able to read old threads where the issue I am facing has been addressed. Sure, threads move off topic but mostly you find what you need.

When it comes to asking questions, I like being able to go back and re-read the threads I have created. I also like the fact that anyone anywhere in the world can come along later and learn from my experiences.

I am fairly new here, and as such haven't noticed a decline in posts. There are more than enough posts in the few sub-forums I follow to make it worth visiting the site everyday. In fact I usually pop in a few times a day.

[NathanaelBC]

I know I'm only new here and I don't want to come across as an arrogant , but solving these sorts of issues with websites and software is my profession; figuring out why people don't purchase products, don't sign up to services, abort an online form halfway through etc.

User experience designers such as myself are renowned for responding to questions with "It depends" and I'm not going to attempt to try and answer why people are engaging less with particular subforums because I would need to conduct extensive quantitative and qualitative historical analysis of user behaviour and participation.

However I will go out on a limb and tell you based on mine and my colleagues' general experience in social design:

a) Implementing a live chat will not drastically increase engagement; and
b) People are not leaving in droves and moving the conversations onto Facebook

[nine fingers]

:noway:
Don't need it, don't want it.
FWIW
Regards

not interested.

[Ironwood]

If a live chat section was introduced, I definitely wouldn't use it. I like it the way it is. If I am following a thread and its time to go to bed, thats fine, I can come back to it tomorrow and all the posts are still there, I have no idea what happens to the old posts in a live chat room.

As for Facebook, I have gone this long without ever having gone on there, so I don't see myself starting anytime soon. If family or friends want to catch up with me, they can ring me on my landline (I don't carry a mobile) or better still, come and see me.

A lot of reasons already mentioned why posting is declining I agree with.
Another reason that I think could be adding to the gradual decline, is the forum is getting too big and diverse. When I joined up 8 years ago, it was all about the woodworking and related offshoots, the membership was like being part of a big family, of course some still couldn't get on, that still hasn't changed.
Since I joined my life has gotten busier, I have barely any time to even look in the shed let alone make some sawdust. My visits to the forum have also gotten shorter and less frequent. When I eventually retire, I suspect things will turn around the other way for me ( I hope).
Until then, I will just continue to drop in and have a look around, and hopefully contribute something from time to time.

To the members who post their work and generate the discussions, please keep it up, the forum needs you.

[KBs PensNmore]

:noway:

Don't want it or need it either, I like to be able to read and re read comments as I suffer from CRAFT disease.
Kryn

[Master Splinter]

Until Facebook provides the option to have a generic profile with no personally identifying information at all, it remains blocked at my router's firewall. Being somewhat introverted, I have zero need to couple myself to a social network. And as for chat, it has the problem of turning what I consider a non time dependant medium (I choose when to read and post) to one where my attendance is required at a schedule not defined by me. This simply doesn't appeal. If I want realtime chat, I can yell at the kids over Steam chat when we are playing an online game (doesn't matter if they are just in the next room, the concept is the same but there are slightly more expletives and teabaggings than there are in real life).

[BobL]

Until Facebook provides the option to have a generic profile with no personally identifying information at all, it remains blocked at my router's firewall. Being somewhat introverted, I have zero need to couple myself to a social network. . . . . .

So why post here?

[Master Splinter]

So why post here? Because no-one else's opinions are as good as mine. :D

[PenTurner]

Greg, your post has raised a valid point, and it is great to see all the feedback; I still don't like the "Like" buttons, I think it doesn't reflect what the other person is really thinking, sometimes it is used just to let others know you have seen the post and acknowledge.
If you liked the post--WHY did you like it, was it an exceptional post?! was it different? did it reflect the usual standard,, OR--- yeah i saw your post, but really don't like it but I don't want to offend you so I pressed "Like"..OR--Just can't be bothered so I pressed "Like"
I LIKE real input, not a nebulous "LIKE", just like I want a real person answering the phone, not a phony "we really think your call is important--but blow you jack, just hold the line for 30 minutes until our understaffed poorly paid people can get to you"
So I won't click on LIKE for this thread, I just say, it is a good one, Amos:):):)

[ubeaut]

However if the forum ceased to exist due to loss of income I would be ticked right off.

Would a $XX per year membership fee help ? Or would that simply just drive more people away.

If the forum is under threat, I'd be happy to pay a fee for access to this forum.

Please phone or fax credit card details to 555-5555-5555 Ext 555 and I will gladly take $555 from you.

Thank you for the thought, but these forums are free to the world and will always remain so, as long as my bum points to the ground. As soon as we accept paid membership the members will want a say in running the forums and that will surely be the end of them. Hehehe.

We will survive. Have in the past and will continue to long into the future.

I believe this thread was originally started in regard to the PEN TURNING forum so I will address a concern or two towards that forum.

I guess there probably are lots of pen turners using Facebook. But by the same token there are probably many more who hangout at IAP, Pen Turners Paradise and other pen turning haunts as well.
I had a bit of a look back over the pen turning forum from today until Jan 2012. Quick skim of that forums showed me there are almost double the number of threads per day in the Pen Turning Forum now than there was 2 years ago or even 12 mths ago.
Makes one think the "Members Declining" observation is probably more perceived than real.



Gawdelpus makes a very valid point that the new "Thanks" and "Likes" buttons may well reduce the numbers of "minimalist" posts we see. Consequently, posts may not be a significant way of defining Forum useage for future. However, I have to say that this has only been in place for a week so it has hardly had time to influence posts at this point in time.

The "Thank for this post" button is new, however the "Like this post" or "Like" button has been there for a couple of years. It hasn't made much of an impact on forum usage during the time it's been there. The biggest impacts are from mobile devices and the fact that they just don't work as well as they should with a forum like this one. I doubt they ever will. Mobile phones are the biggest problem closely followed by iPads or other small tablets with mobile device skins or apps like tapatalk instead of the full version.

Some of our other problems come from being one of the few forums that actually care enough to upgrade to the latest version of many programs so as not to be caught with the security risks associated with older and no longer supported programs.

The new translator (see bottom of all pages) will eventually bring in more and more new members with new ideas and new questions, etc but it will take quite some time for the translations to fully cache all the languages for all the threads and posts. It could take another month or more for all threads to be cached and once this is done it should only be a matter of time before we start to see some new blood.


Having said that, Chambezio's comment that there are a disproportionate spread of users over the age of 50 has to ring a bell somewhere. If no new blood is coming along and no new woodworkers emerging there will come a point where the Forum will start to decline.

On the question of the age, we used to have a really good base of younger people here but the older and not always so wiser members did a really good job of chasing them away by being spelling/grammar Nazis, antagonistic and in some instances downright rude, unfriendly and unwelcoming.

Hope this answers a few more questions posed or not.

Cheers - Neil :U

[BobL]

I like the like buttons because they declutter the forums. Prior to the like buttons there would be one informative post and the as many as half a dozen posts with one or two word replies or often just the good ole :2tsup: and lots of "+1".
This made it a PITA to read threads having to skip by all the dross.

The like buttons don't stop anyone posting something about why they liked it - well it certainly doesn't stop me anyway. I used to participate on another forum where they debated whether they would have like buttons or not. In the end they decided not to and I find myself going there less and less often.

[Uncle Al]

For me a "live chat" is me calling you on the phone and asking where I put the gouge? it was in my hand ten seconds ago and now it has disappeared!:)
Amos:)

Ah!, A brilliant way to get many people to look for the "lost pencil", could be a real time saver.

(Sorry to be a bit flippant, still coming to terms with a hand me down iphone from my daughter, who is fairly proud of Dad who has now pretty well mastered a hole in the wall (ATM)).

Alan...

[plantagenon]

[QUOTE=ubeaut;1749024]Please phone or fax credit card details to 555-5555-5555 Ext 555 and I will gladly take $555 from you.

Couldn't get through to the 555 number - must be all the members on there trying to donate money :U

[mach70]

Although being slightly younger than the average age round here, I'm not a fan of chat rooms. I do use Facebook and the chat function there but that is only a one on one chat. The benefit I find with that is that you can be chatting to several people at once all in their own chat window and no-one else (OK maybe the NSA) can see, that and your phone bill doesnt increase for doing so.

Below are a some comments on a couple of the changes that have occurred I'm not a fan of, but hey that is just my opinion.
- The Market Place/Auctions: not a fan of the new version. Havent used it in a while. Would like to see current open/active listings at the top instead of having to trawl thru them.
- Sponsor logos on individual sub forums & long sub forum descriptions make for a very long scroll down the page if you have all the headings open. I understand the need for it but.
- The style of the forum feels old school. To move between sub-forums you need to scroll all the way back to the top of the page, click on the forum button then select which forum then a sub-forum. Its not very "quick" and can feel like a chore. Here is a pic of another forum I use 304641 the side menu's stay and only the middle section changes as you change sub-forums. It is very quick and easy to navigate. If a forum is not quick and easy to use new members will tire very quickly and bypass it. I find it at times to be "too hard/cumbersome" or I dont have the time so I mainly look at the Pen turning section. For the current "instant" generation, it needs to be easy and "instant" to use.

I think the forum has evolved from a Woodworking forum to almost a lets cater to everyone forum. This maybe a good thing if like myself you have interest in several area's or appreciate what others do in area's that you have little interest in, BUT, if you only have interest in one area it can be a turn off and a daunting place to visit. Also there seem to be a number of sub-forums that appear to have no action for months and one or two that have no action for years! Interestingly one of these is the sponsors forum, heck there are a couple of ones that haven't seen action since 2010! The member only area's, if you havent joined also appear to be dead.

I love this place and have found many many useful tips hint etc that have helped me enormously in my craft and I would not want changes that are going to make it less of a resource and reduce the interaction with like minded people.

Cheers

Shawn

[Bushmiller]

Shawn

I don't agree with everything you've said but I do very much compliment you on your constructive criticism. I particularly like your examples and reasoning.

Regards
Paul

[ubeaut]

I'm not going into defence mode here just replying to a few comments.

I understand speed can be an issue but these forums are running pretty quickly at the moment after an upgrade about a week ago. Anyone with speed problems it will most likely be your server or at your end and not the forums, unless you happen to be on at around 6:00 am or 1:00 am when we are doing backups.


- The Market Place/Auctions: not a fan of the new version. Havent used it in a while. Would like to see current open/active listings at the top instead of having to trawl thru them.
Appears to be working well now that people have become used to something completely new and different. There has never been "a current open/active listings" in the 10 + years we have had the market place going and I know it's a pain but deleting old ads causes search engine problems that could see us penalised. Also the program that runs the market place like most is a bit limited with what it can do and so are we.


- Sponsor logos on individual sub forums & long sub forum descriptions make for a very long scroll down the page if you have all the headings open. I understand the need for it but.
With the last major upgrade which included the tabbed forums across the top of the screen and the drop down when you hover on Forums we managed to shorten the front page by between 4 and 9 screen views depending on monitor size and settings. Could get rid of descriptions but not going to make a massive difference in scrolling. Could get rid of sponsors banners and charge a fee to cover the loss and keep the forums up and running. Took off all descriptions and Sponsors Banners for a look see. It made the difference of 1.5 screens. Hardly worth the effort


- The style of the forum feels old school. To move between sub-forums you need to scroll all the way back to the top of the page, click on the forum button then select which forum then a sub-forum. Its not very "quick" and can feel like a chore.
The forums may feel old school but looking at others forums WWF appears to me to be a lot less cluttered once you get into the forums and posts.
Yep it is a bit of a pain but not a lot we can do with it. Once again there are limits to what can be done and adding another side bar would make the main page and subsequently all other pages longer.

I had a look at the mustang forum and at the time I looked, there were 16 people on line there as opposed to 1643 on here. I'm sure 16 users instead of 1600+ will make for a slightly faster site. Yet strangely enough the load time for both forums was almost identical.

Have to leave for some appointments and probably won't be back on again tonight, but will continue with this follow-up when I can.

Cheers - Neil :U

[bwal74]

On the question of the age, we used to have a really good base of younger people here but the older and not always so wiser members did a really good job of chasing them away by being spelling/grammar Nazis, antagonistic and in some instances downright rude, unfriendly and unwelcoming.

Hope this answers a few more questions posed or not.

Cheers - Neil :U


Hi,

Firstly, I'm not at all interested in a live chat room.

Secondly, if there's a decline in membership early or late in the year I believe it's simply because of that time of the year (Xmas and Holidays etc).

Thirdly, I must be showing my age because it really annoys me when I read my teenage kids spelling/grammar on the E devices (computers/phones/pads etc) I always correct them and tell them we bought them up better then that.

I like this forum and will continue to use it when I can.

Ben.

[mach70]

Thanks for the detailed response Neil.

As for the speed of the forum no issues there and generally I find that any issue with response times is to do with my Telstra "sometimes" connection. I was more reffering to the speed at which you can navigate thru the forum. The mustang site is no where near the size of WWF, but I find it quicker to navigate due to the side bars and not having to come right the way back up the page. Its just something that I find easier and quicker.

Cheers

Shawn

[Evanism]

-I like the older blokes. I'm not sure if I've met any grammar nazis, but there have been a few "occasions" but these seemed minor upon reflection
- it would be nice to ID the poster a bit more so I can approach the post accordingly e.g Male 44, 3 years exp.
- I REALLY dislike the design. I understand it's a generic package, but as a professional software programmer and 20 year Internet web designer, I can assure you it isn't THAT hard.
- need a tag cloud for searching
- put Ajax into the search for predictive searching
- show popular search terms

One last point, I really dislike the design. :-) Hire it out as a $300 job to one of those slave-factory design websites and get a few pitches.

[BobL]

-I like the older blokes. I'm not sure if I've met any grammar nazis, but there have been a few "occasions" but these seemed minor upon reflection
- it would be nice to ID the poster a bit more so I can approach the post accordingly e.g Male 44, 3 years exp.
What if that other person doesn't want to be ID'd?
I would like members to specify state location though - "Australia" drives me nuts.


- I REALLY dislike the design. I understand it's a generic package, but as a professional software programmer and 20 year Internet web designer, I can assure you it isn't THAT hard.
My view is if it ain't broke it don't need fixin' or fiddling but I'd like to hear where you think it's broken.



- need a tag cloud for searching
- put Ajax into the search for predictive searching
- show popular search terms

I thought we had a tag cloud at one stage - but I never used it.
Anyway, I've given up with the search tool. Google does such a good job so I don't see any point in spending any effort on an in-house search tool.


One last point, I really dislike the design. :-) Hire it out as a $300 job to one of those slave-factory design websites and get a few pitches.
What - so they can fill it full of holes to sell to someone who wants to play funny buggers?

[China]

It does not concern me that mobile phones have trouble with the Forum, my mobile phone is a phone it does not have internet capability.
Can somebody explain what a "tag cloud" is

[A Duke]

-I like the older blokes. I'm not sure if I've met any grammar nazis, but there have been a few "occasions" but these seemed minor upon reflection
- it would be nice to ID the poster a bit more so I can approach the post accordingly e.g Male 44, 3 years exp.
- I REALLY dislike the design. I understand it's a generic package, but as a professional software programmer and 20 year Internet web designer, I can assure you it isn't THAT hard.
- need a tag cloud for searching
- put Ajax into the search for predictive searching
- show popular search terms

One last point, I really dislike the design. :-) Hire it out as a $300 job to one of those slave-factory design websites and get a few pitches.
Hi there,
I see you don't practice what you preach, you do not give your age, I also like to have an Idea who I am talking to (were you there or not even borne yet?).
The Tag Cloud is lower down the page below the posts amongst the credits.
Regards

Ps I find the design OK

[ubeaut]

Couple more things:

Firstly in response to mach70's comments re side panel with forum index.

We used to have something similar for your own links. We are going to look at implementing something like the one on the Mustang forum and will give it a trial run.



I think the forum has evolved from a Woodworking forum to almost a lets cater to everyone forum.

It most certainly has and mainly at the insistence of members, often to involve other family members. We actually get a lot of members from those "please all" forums, people who otherwise may never have used the forums or known about them.



The member only area's, if you havent joined also appear to be dead.

There's a Members Only area? :o Oh that one.... :doh: That is for members to get their Members ID so they can get into Show Stand and be ID'd by other members. It is a closed forum not for posting forum. Any posts that were in there have been deleted. Also the SPECIAL DEALS & OFFERS FOR MEMBERS & Guests forum is emptied out after the deals have run their course. These are usually for Discounted Entry to Woodworking Shows and the like. Next entry in there will be a few weeks before Brisbane Timber & Working With Wood Show in May.



Evanism -I like the older blokes. I'm not sure if I've met any grammar nazis, but there have been a few "occasions" but these seemed minor upon reflection


I'm sure people from the 18th Century would be horrified at most spelling and grammar of the 20th Century people. We evolve, we don't like it but in the future almost everything will be done with predictive text and text shorthand. Being a bad speller doesn't make someone a bad person and is no reason for anyone to be persecuted and driven from the forums. It reflects more on the personage of the good speller with no tolerance for others. This is from a person who is an atrocious speller and relies heavily on his spell checker.



- it would be nice to ID the poster a bit more so I can approach the post accordingly e.g Male 44, 3 years exp.

That information is available on the top section of a members information in their post (right hand side) and includes


Join Date When membership commenced.
Location Most are honest and put at least a town. Some want to hide their location and others are too dumb to know where they are.
Age Members age at time of their last post Only if allowed by member - I NOTICE YOUR AGE ISN'T SUPPLIED but you think others should show theirs.
Posts The number of posts a member has made helps towards experience on forum not time at woodworking



Not sure what difference being male or female should make unless you're intimidated by one or the other.



- I REALLY dislike the design. I understand it's a generic package, but as a professional software programmer and 20 year Internet web designer, I can assure you it isn't THAT hard.
I can pretty much assure you it is. We have had and used different designs and in one way or another they do not completely want to work with the vBulletin program or clash with IE or bring up many thousand of unforeseen and untried problems hither too unknown until you go live. Currently this is the most stable format for these forums. We have tried other forum programs and found them all lacking to some degree.


- need a tag cloud for searching


Already have tag cloud but your mentioning of it brought to our attention that it was no longer doing automatic tagging of threads this will be fixed later on today or tonight.


- put Ajax into the search for predictive searching


Looking into this


- show popular search terms


Should be in tag cloud



One last point, I really dislike the design. :-
Oh dear :cry4: for now if you wish to continue you're stuck with it. You can change the skin if you wish. You should be able to find out where to do that. For those who don't know it's on the left left side of bottom navigation bar on all screens, or on this page it's in the same place a little below the VIEW TAG CLOUD link

Sorry if any of the above comes across as sarcasm but if it does it's because sometimes I just can't help myself.

Cheers - Neil :U

[steamingbill]

Hello,

See attached - this often appears at the bottom of my browser pages.


Bill

[Treecycle]

At least I have learnt a lot about these forums from this thread. There have been a lot of good explanations on items that the casual user may not know about.

[Evanism]

Away for 2 days and I get a pitch forking! Oh well, I like being the martyr.....

Here are some more ideas:

- agree/disagree buttons. (a different vibe from liking)
- modify the CSS a bit so each post looks more distinct
- any chance of some more imagery, such as on the front page? Iconography rather than slab-o-text?

BTW, my spelling is horrendous too, the iPads autocorrect is very unamusing sometimes.

BBTW, when I said I liked the older blokes, it was for their WISDOM, not something *else* :B

[ubeaut]

- agree/disagree buttons. (a different vibe from liking)
We actually have a dislike button which if used would be basically the same thing. However we choose not to use the dislike button because of the abuse/misuse it would get. This was the reason we mostly disabled the reputation system. There are some stalkers on here who would dislike everything posted by some particular mambers. If something is disliked or disagreed with the best response is via post, or pm if one doesn't want to appear to be grandstanding, way more appropriate and won't be misused.


- modify the CSS a bit so each post looks more distinct
Not sure I get your drift here don't the bars between posts and the users avatar (if they have one) make each post distinctive


- any chance of some more imagery, such as on the front page? Iconography rather than slab-o-text?
I'm up for almost anything that will make the forums a better place to visit, but again I have no idea what you mean here.

Any chance of you posting a link or screen capture as an example of what you mean for both of the above.
This would at least give me and others some idea of what you mean so it can be either acted on or not.

Cheers - Neil :U

[wheelinround]

I'm sure people from the 18th Century would be horrified at most spelling and grammar of the 20th Century people. We evolve, we don't like it but in the future almost everything will be done with predictive text and text shorthand. Being a bad speller doesn't make someone a bad person and is no reason for anyone to be persecuted and driven from the forums. It reflects more on the personage of the good speller with no tolerance for others. This is from a person who is an atrocious speller and relies heavily on his spell checker.






:rolleyes: You are being tongue in cheek aren't you :roll: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18th_century

A period where many could not read or write let alone spell.
When new colonies were established and convicts were sent to.
Pirates, henchmen and Press Gangs were at their height. They themselves would have used such as a simple X to sign anything if signing at all a form of short hand if you like.


Just to be a Nazi on history:p

[gawdelpus]

My "tuppence" worth :) Rereading Gregs original post it may be slightly Misnamed :) I think only the Moderaters and admin would know the truth about (Members Declining ) I think the gist of what Greg was saying was more the Participation rate for posts etc, and activity levels, that said it has generated a lively and informative discussion , and probably brought some commentaters out of the "woodwook" hehe. This is a good thing and what forums are generally all about , If some of the ideas expressed have merit and practicality I am sure that they would be implemented in due course , these forums and associated pages do not happen by magic ,a lot of filling in has to be done from the basic templates, lots of time effort and cash makes what most of us take for granted ,which we get for free :) as members ,of course things evolve over time and updates occur ,but overall I enjoy what little of the forums I can take in ,although I specialise in pen making and post there often ,the times I can just browse and see what others are doing I also enjoy. Upshot is a Hundred "likes" is worth about one genuine responce to the poster :) . At the markets I go to .everyone "likes" my work, but only a few Buy ,the buyers are the ones I Like LOL . Cheers ~ John

[A Duke]

Hi Evanism, :2tsup:
Thanks for adding your age.
I now know as long as I don't talk about Teletext machines, Facet machines, slide rules and logarithm tables, you were there.
Regards

[Bushmiller]

Upshot is a Hundred "likes" is worth about one genuine responce to the poster :) . At the markets I go to .everyone "likes" my work, but only a few Buy ,the buyers are the ones I Like LOL . Cheers ~ John


John

I was just about to press the "like" button:-:D.

You make a good point. :cool: However, if everyone posts like this there will be pages and pages of very trivial posting. Consequently I believe the "likes" button definitely has it's place.

Is there a place for a "good point" button? I have to agree about Neil's comment for a "dislike" button. I noticed that it was very briefly in place at the recent revamp and at the time I thought "this is asking for trouble." :wink:

I imagine that as part of the package it was included, but was swiftly removed once noticed.

Regards
Paul

[Sturdee]

This was the reason we mostly disabled the reputation system. There are some stalkers on here who would dislike everything posted by some particular members. If something is disliked or disagreed with the best response is via post, or pm if one doesn't want to appear to be grandstanding, way more appropriate and won't be misused.




Neil,

The reputation system is still there, including the option of giving a disapprove reputation and I agree that it was abused by some members.

Peter.

[BobL]

. . . .I have to agree about Neil's comment for a "dislike" button. I noticed that it was very briefly in place at the recent revamp and at the time I thought "this is asking for trouble." :wink:


Following the old adage of . . . . "if you can't say something nice about someone then it's best not to say anything at all"?

Often it's not so much a "dislike" as a "disagreement". Anyway, folks can always post a reasoned disagreement is the wish.

[Evanism]

How about this: a button for on or off topic....off topic posts are coloured a light grey whereas on topic posts are normalised or highlighted?

What I mean is the whole post, maybe the background area of the post is different, so one can visually follow the on topic components without wading through the waft.

BTW, A Duke, we've met 3 times. I'm the tall loud fat yelling one who waves his arms around a lot :U

[BobL]

How about this: a button for on or off topic....off topic posts are coloured a light grey whereas on topic posts are normalised or highlighted?

What I mean is the whole post, maybe the background area of the post is different, so one can visually follow the on topic components without wading through the waft.

I'm not sure whether staying on topic is that significant of an issue on these forums to warrant spending the effort required to do this.
Personally I don't worry about it too much if threads go off topic as that's how many interesting conversations develop, and occasionally the original topic may be of less value than the off topic(s) that developed.
Of more value might be a "Value" button - which is not that far from a like button

[plantagenon]

I have found it very interesting that so many people have made comments on what I thought was a simple post regarding the ability to have real time chats between members - which may have been one-on-one chat as Face Book has or chat rooms as Face Book also has.

Thank you for your responses to my thread irrespective of whether you supported or opposed my suggestion. Having read every post I now agree that a general chat room is not a good thing for this forum. A one-on-one chat is a different matter but I really don't want to stir up another hornet's nest. Ultimately, I can understand Neal's reasoning and it was good he has taken the time to respond to ideas rather than ignore them, particularly given he is the one paying the money to run this place.

At least I have discovered that my perception of the declining membership on the Forum was not correct in fact and that it may just be members are taking the easy way out of just reading a post and not commenting. Certainly, a lot have taken the opportunity to comment on this thread. Maybe it will stimulate members to make more comments in their sub-forums.

As an aside, I would hate to see the introduction of a simple tab you could click to disagree with or dislike someone's thread or post. :no: That just lets the nutters run through the forum to upset people. If you can't offer constructive comment, then as BobL said; say nothing. We are here after all to help each other. I have learnt so much about pen turning from members on here it is not funny. So many have assisted me since I joined and members I have personally met have become good friends outside the Forum.

This really is much better than Face Book :U (although I would like Zuckerberg's money). Just occurred to me what happens if you substitute one letter at the beginning of his name. :B

Enough from me - I will get back to my sub-forum. See you there. Up to Neal when he closes this thread down.

Greg

[Willy Nelson]

I read, understood and responded to this thread. TIC
:p

Willy

[plantagenon]

Almost forgot - comments regarding the English language




"No one is useless in this world who lightens the burden of it to anyone else" - Charles Dickens - circa 1800s - true Victorian English

[Bushmiller]

How about this: a button for on or off topic....off topic posts are coloured a light grey whereas on topic posts are normalised or highlighted?



What? Off topic discrimination. If digressions were discriminated against it would neuter 95% of my posts :oo:.

I'll have to think about that:-:wink::D.

Regards
Paul

[ubeaut]

:offtopic: Off topic and many many other smilies, with or without signs can be found by clicking on [More] beneath the smiles when posting a reply.

:ontopic: :goodpost: :kewlpics: :welldone: :feedback: :mods: :shutup3: etc, etc, etc.

[A Duke]

But there is no simple thumbs down, that is what what I was looking for when I used :noway: I my earlier Post.
Regards

[Ueee]

These type of threads make me laugh....

If someone posts a genuine fantastic project, idea or new tool, the thread might get a dozen replies from the regular members. But as soon as a thread like this comes along, all the some times posters come out of the woodwork, haha, with an opinion.

I like the forum as it looks and as it works, i often browse it on my phone without problems. I use the full site and have never tried tapatalk.
I have noticed the lack of projects on the section of forum i frequent. There is still good discussion but seeing what other people are doing is always interesting.

Cheers,
Ew

[ubeaut]

Simple thumbs up: Use the one at the bottom of text box when replying to thread will show as above in title

or :2tsup:

Make it as simple as hitting the like button below: 305124 that's it other than going into the smilies page and adding more thumbs up etc.

There is only so much that can be done in the programming of these pages without stuffing up all sorts of other things and having to find and reload them all again, and again after each and every upgrade or security fix, etc.

Cheers - Neil :U

PS there is also the 305126 that can be added to title.

[BobL]

Using only an icon for negative type feedback, e.g. "thumbs down," is generally not that helpful.

Just in case a member takes offence I think any sort of negative feedback (and perhaps I provide more than my fair share) should be accompanied by some sort of explanation.

When I remember I also try to start off every post that may be construed as containing negative feedback with something positive, e.g. "go on you for having a go" or "pretty good for a first effort" etc and then get into the problems and issues.

Positive feedback even via a "like" or a "thumbs up" type icon is universally understood, so although an accompanying explanation is more useful no offence will be taken if none is provided.

[Big Shed]

These type of threads make me laugh....

If someone posts a genuine fantastic project, idea or new tool, the thread might get a dozen replies from the regular members. But as soon as a thread like this comes along, all the some times posters come out of the woodwork, haha, with an opinion.

I like the forum as it looks and as it works, i often browse it on my phone without problems. I use the full site and have never tried tapatalk.
I have noticed the lack of projects on the section of forum i frequent. There is still good discussion but seeing what other people are doing is always interesting.

Cheers,
Ew

Hi Ewan, bit puzzled by your "all the some times posters come out of the woodwork, haha, with an opinion". Just went to the trouble to see who replied to this, very enlightening, thread and most of the respondents are fairly frequent posters, some could be classed as very frequent posters. In fact quite a number of respondents have more posts to their name than you have. I could only find 2 posters with a low post count and they are new members, which does not make their opinions any less valid.:no:

There have been some good suggestions come out of this discussion and I would hate to see people being discouraged from contributing because they are "some times posters". We don't need to be frequent posters to experience the forum and form an opinion on how it could be improved.

Maybe you see some names here that you are not familiar with because you tend to frequent the Metalwork Forum?

I do however agree with you on how the forum works on mobile devices. I often look at, and post on, the forum on my Android tablet and have never seen the need for Tapatalk. I use standard version of Firefox and the forum works fine like that and when I post I don't need to announce to the world that I own an iXYZ and I advertise Tapatalk:no:

[Ueee]

Hi Ewan, bit puzzled by your "all the some times posters come out of the woodwork, haha, with an opinion". Just went to the trouble to see who replied to this, very enlightening, thread and most of the respondents are fairly frequent posters, some could be classed as very frequent posters. In fact quite a number of respondents have more posts to their name than you have. I could only find 2 posters with a low post count and they are new members, which does not make their opinions any less valid.:no:


Hi Fred,
I almost edited the post, i was going to add "this is just an observation, something i have noticed over the time i have been an active member." or something to that effect. Anyway, i thought i made it clear that it was just not this thread, like i said it always makes me chuckle how the running of the forum and the politics of the forum seems to interest far more members than the content itself sometimes......
There is a thread in the Metalworking section that is a perfect example of this, but really i don't think its of any benefit for me to add a link.

Ew

[BobL]

. . . . . how the running of the forum and the politics of the forum seems to interest far more members than the content itself sometimes......

I think this is quite normal and would be surprised if it were not this way. Those of us that have been here for a while or have significant expertise forget that some of the content is very specialised and either of no interest to many members, or newbies find it too challenging to be come involved. But anyone can have a comment on the way a website looks or works.

[johnredl]

When i first started using this forum i accessed it via my laptop or website via ipad and it was fine. No problems at all full functionality and no issues browsing to the auction/market place.

Since i started using tapatalk (im no way implying this is Woodworkforums.com fault) it has taken my browsing experience to a below average rating. I cant view the Auction/market place and little quirks about browsing around just simply annoy me. The mobile version of the website doesn't work for me either. I just don't like it to put it bluntly.

I know that change is good and it needs to happen to add more functionality and better accessibility but i just like the original interface and since i dont use it on my phone i simply need to get off my backside and get on my laptop to continue posting properly :)

Cheers,
Delbs
I agree. I understand that change is good, and without it we stagnate. I do like the new auction site...somewhat. However I hate that I can't access it via tapatalk. I don't get to a desktop much and I don't find the mobile option very usable for me.

But bottom line is that this is a free forum. If we don't like it and the way that Neil has designed it, use another site.

Just thinking, I've never thought about how much this site costs to run. Maybe an idea would be to go head on into developing the mobile area and integrating small ads to the bottom of each screen? More of us are using mobile devices over desktops. (But can u please make the auction site more mobile friendly?!! :))

[johnredl]

Meant to add my bit about Facebook. I like Facebook, but comparing it to a forum is like chalk and cheese. This site is for sharing ideas and information, Facebook is for keeping in touch with people. I wouldn't use a chat feature even if it were introduced.

[Ueee]

On the subject of the OP, i seem to notice less activity on the weekends, is it just me or not?

Ew

[Colin62]

I'm on the tablet, and won't be quoting the points I'm replying to, so here goes.

I'm comfortable with the look of the forums. I don't keep coming back for pretty graphics, I come for the content, discussion and interaction with like-minded people, and to learn from the ones whose minds are a little superior :)

I agree with comments that a simple like or agree can be conveyed with a button, but that to disagree meaningfully, you really should explain why (hopefully respectfully).

I access the forums from WinXP (not in a while though), Win7, Android 2, Android 4, IOS 7 and Blackberry 7. I've avoided Tapatalk, and this is just about the only site I know of which is easily navigable and legible across all those platforms. Except for Internet Explorer of course. I have seen too many systems broken by trying to add unnecessary frills, and I'd hate to see that happen here.

To reiterate, I don't come here because of the technology, I come here because of the people and what we can teach each other.

To Neil and his moderators, thanks for what you do for us, your efforts are appreciated.

[ubeaut]

Just thinking, I've never thought about how much this site costs to run.
Maybe an idea would be to go head on into developing the mobile area and integrating small ads to the bottom of each screen?

Not enough hours in the day days in the week or months in the year to develop a mobile site. Hense the reason I'm usually on here around midnight and into the wee small hours. Anyway it probably wouldn't work any better than the Tapatalk or our Default Mobile Style.

Tapatalk up until recently didn't allow ads and I believe we have to pay Tapatalk a monthly fee to have ads on their app and then only get what they offer which you can just about bet wouldn't include any more than a handful of Aussie ads. This may have changed or may change in the future as their policy of no ads probably stopped many forums from using them.

Our Default Mobile style does allow Google Ads and we have a couple on there. But the revenue generated from mobile ads would barely cover the fee to Tapatalk for having ads on the site.

Steven and I have actually had discussions in the past about designing our own mobile application.... Haven't gone any further than that but it could be something for the future. Big problem is with mobile phone use and the fact that a forum will probably never work very well on a phone, no matter what.

Using a tablet is a different kettle of fish and most tablet users shouldn't need to use a mobile app to view the full forums.


More of us are using mobile devices over desktops. (But can u please make the auction site more mobile friendly?!! :))
Love to but there is absolutely nothing that can be done to get them to work on a mobile using an app. They like many other things were never designed to work on a mobile phone.

If you use an iPad or and half decent Android tablet then there should be no need for a mobile application to be used as the full forums will work fine and the market place will be fully functional.

If you have a good tablet you should be able to use it in landscape mode rather than portrait and view an entire page width without the need to scroll from side to side. I certainly can view all as well on my tablet as on the desktop or laptop. Not quite as good as on the really big screen at the office but well enough to be able to read and see everything without need to enlarge the font.

Cheers - Neil :U

[johnredl]

Thanks for the reply Neil.

Also, I called UBeaut recently to get advice on which product to finish pens with. The man I spoke to was quite friendly and very helpful and knowledgable on the products. A great customer service experience despite what sounded quite hectic in the background.

[ubeaut]

G'day John - :o You must have called the wrong place that guy's a really grumpy old bastard and it's never hectic unless he set himself on fire again. :blowup:

Cheers - Neil :U

PS We try to be helpful and pleasent to everyone. Even say thank you to phone spammers before hanging up on them mid sentence.

[johnredl]

PS We try to be helpful and pleasent to everyone. Even say thank you to phone spammers before hanging up on them mid sentence.

Did u now that if u don't hang up, just put the phone on the counter for a while, they can't hang up their end? Apparently the system doesn't allow hanging up first. These people have to make x amount of calls (performance based), and by not hanging up ur messing with their stats!

[Chesand]

G'day John - :o You must have called the wrong place that guy's a really grumpy old bastard and it's never hectic unless he set himself on fire again. :blowup:



That sounds like Neil. :D

[DaveTTC]

The new "thanks for the post" and "like" buttons will have cut the number of posts as you don't have to post to say :2tsup:.


304492
Regards

I cant see anything like those buttons on tapatalk, NOw I have to post to let replonica know I am still watching and enjoying his marathon bike build


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Groggy]

I've a few mixed feelings about this one. Firstly, Facebook is a leaker of personal information and they keep saying they will do better whilst changing their terms to allow them to collect more data. Why do they want to host chat rooms? So they can see what topics are 'trending' and manipulate that data into information they can sell. Not necessarily personal data, but aggregate data. They are there for profit, not altruistic motives.

These forums add value to my life as it is a record I can scroll through and follow a discussion days later, or a project years later, then use that information to help satisfy my curiosity or to put it to practice in my own projects.

When I was a moderator I would have liked a chat function (eg, click the user's name and pop up a chat window) to assist with communicating with other mods mostly but occasionally to help a member. Usually a phone call was made to sort out tricky stuff; I suspect that hasn't changed much.

As a general member I like to use the forums for learning and not active engagement as it would change the demands it makes on my time. With posting like this I can take my time, in a chat I would feel obligated to respond and be 'bound' to the discussion. I use chats on a few games and other sites and try to avoid them unless necessary.

After a number of years here I have seen the quiet and busy times ebb and flow. As Neil said earlier a drop in numbers can be seasonal and also related to a particular forum but they seem to recover.

A good discussion this one.

As an aside, the irony of Zuckerberg complaining to Obama about invasion of privacy by government agencies was priceless.

[Christos]

On the subject of the OP, i seem to notice less activity on the weekends, is it just me or not?

Ew


I try to spend time in the shed on the weekends, unless when I am at work. :U

[Vaper]

I joined a while ago but havent been active lately ... family life takes over ... especially if you have kids, then mix that in with the hot weather we have had and I dont much feel like doing anything wood related or even sitting in front of a computer to be honest.
this is no reflection on the forum just the way it goes some times ... all websites have trends on posting counts ...even facebook.
Live chat is not a bad idea but again its not something we cant live without ... the beauty of forum posting is we can read it at our own leisure ... not have to try and keep up with 15 to 20 people in live chat all at once and your scrolling backwards and forwards trying to see who's saying what about what subject ... some are talking projects others are talking what they had for dinner last night while others are telling people they are full of crap and it goes on and on ...
I moderated chat rooms years and years ago when they were huge (MSN chat rooms etc) and its a royal pain ... Im not saying it would need moderating here ... most of the posts I read here have mature answers and opinions and dont result in juvenile hating ... but it happens, those posts can be ignored or even deleted ...live chat its not so easy.

one thing I am curious about ...is there a way to only see new posts from one sub forum ...like woodwork ...instead of getting every single new post from all forums ... I would find that a more useful tool then live chat for Myself.

Thanks

Vaper