MEMBERS DECLINING

[Timless Timber]

I don't bother trying to "contribute anything (advice) worthwhile" to help others now.

Too many posts deleted and bannings etc - I'm over it.

If I can get help from others for whatever need I have at the time, by posting a question - then I'll "use" the place, (to my benefit) otherwise I read and naff off.

Driving members away seems to be the whole purpose of the place, attract them so we can drive them away. :? :doh:

I can't work it out and I'm past bothering to try - there's other forums less anal... about mooderating people out of participation.

There's a "balance" and this place can't find it.

Just coz someones a mooderator - they think their not doing their job if they aren't pushing the delete button or the ban button.

Rather than edit objectionable content...(and leave the main thrust / body of the post - which took effort to create and contains intellectual property of the poster) the "easy way out is to just delete it" because it breached some obscure rule (in the Sheldon-esque 10,000 page "room mates agreement" that constitutes "the rules" around here), and if there is no rule breach but we just don't like what you say or how you say it, we reserve the right to delete it anyway and ban just coz we feel like it! :rolleyes:

Well people value their intellectual property - when you disrespect that in return, they cease contributing to assist others & usually leave.

So numbers fall - less people get helped = less then post, and traffic drops off, and more leave etc.

Having a forum on the net doesn't guarantee people will post...

It's how you treat people.....treat them bad (disrespect their intellectual property in their contributions which after all were only trying to help someone else out) and they vote with their mouse to go elsewhere!.

It's not rocket science.

Owning a forum doesn't make you "a good people person" to build a forum community.

Think of a moderator - as the bloke who arrives at your favorite drinking hole, where you've been going for years because your accepted there among the community.

If the new Mooderator keeps excessively flexing his muscles and abusing his authority - the group just find somewhere else to drink and your pub becomes non viable to keep trading because the new bouncer p!ssed off all the regulars.

It takes ability and skill to build an accepting group of participants that continues to grow into a supportive forum community.

Drive enough contributors away (deleting and banning) and things start to decline.

Not that this will stay - even in a discussion / feed back thread - you can't say what the problems are, coz that's against the rules - so therefore no one can fix whats wrong.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy - of doom.

You can't trust the people here who run the place with your contributions - so the obvious answer is - don't make any! :)

Take what you can get for free, and contribute nothing helpful in return, that will only be disrespected and deleted and get you banned for saying it.

That's the unwritten rules of the game round here...

My 2c...

Cheers!

[Darklord]

:lolabove: What a tosser.

:please: :banhim:

Darky

[Colin62]

My 2c...

Cheers!

There's obviously some history there that I'm not aware of, but, for the record, my experience of these forums is very different to yours.

i like the fact that all the little fights and spats aren't left for prosperity - there is a forum I belong to where I've allowed myself to become embroiled in a few off-topic fights, and when I come across some of those threads years later I am embarrassed by how strongly I reacted.

[plantagenon]

I wish the thread was deleted. It has gone beyond what I intended.

[gawdelpus]

Hey Greg! not your fault if someones 2cents worth is just a diatribe of ill feelings :no: I am sure there is a large preponderance of useful and helpful info to all involved in the rest of the thread ,once the Geni is out of the bottle who knows where it will end up .As in the real world forums are apt to draw out differing opinions , some useful, some not ,the trick is to see the whole and not worry about the oddballs :) cheers ~ John

[Evanism]

How do you know if a post has been deleted? Are you sent a notice?

[ubeaut]

How do you know if a post has been deleted? Are you sent a notice?

Anyone who has a post or thread deleted is notified with a reason for that deletion. It may be for spamming, personal attacks or unsavoury, lewd, libalous/slanderous attack/comments, etc.

Sometimes posts are moderated/edited to take out email address or phone numbers etc for the protection of the poster. Some times to remove libellous, offensive or personal attack statements.

Bottom line here is that moderation is not done as a power thing as may be suggested but as a very last resort and never without a really good reason.

Most deleted or moderated posts or threads are acted on because of members reporting posts, automated spam removal and the vigilance of a team of very dedicated moderators picking up on a problem before it often gets more than a couple of views. Even then a thread or post isn't deleted until it has been reported on viewed and commented on by all the moderators. Once this is done the action to be undertaken is decided upon. In many cases it is a matter of an email or pm to the poster asking for it to be changed and stating why. If no response or cooperation is given then the mods will act on the general consensus of the moderating team.

Often members have no idea what has been deleted or why someone is banned because, they have never seen the garbage, off topic rants, politically incorrect, unsavoury, meaningless and offensive diatribes posted by that person. This is because of good moderation.

Some people seem to think they are singled out or picked on by a bunch of power crazy, nazi style moderators. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. There is nothing we would like more than not having to deal with crazies who don't know when to shut up or are off their medication or had too much medication, etc.

Anyone who doesn't like the way we keep these forums a pleasant place to visit with a bit of rough and tumble, irreverence and fun thrown in for good measure, should go and sign up to Sawmill Creek forums or The Blokey Shed.

Those who protest the loudest are welcome to leave and try either of the above. One will love you the other will probably ban you pretty quickly. No both will probably sicken of you in no time flat.

We are extremely lenient here on Woodwork Forums. It has taken many years to clean the forums up to what it is today. A pleasant place to visit, peruse and get or give help. It is a work in progress and only by working at it will it continue to progress.


I wish the thread was deleted. It has gone beyond what I intended.

Caused a bit of interest and discussion. Might close it some time in the next day or so as it's just about run its course and gone a little off track.

Cheers - Neil :U

[dai sensei]

I always find it amazing, some members may post what they consider to be worthwhile advice/input, other members (yes plural) report to the mods the same advice/post to be nothing more than off topic garbage/rants, often requesting the poster be banned.

It is a shame in a way as I believe the far majority of our members have good intensions and trying to post what they consider might be helpful, some just haven't got the knack of putting it in writing, some just get carried away.

[Timless Timber]

All the trouble here for me personally has been trying to help others.

I've had posts deleted with zero advice.

If your on the mods watch list they view every post looking for an excuse to delete and ban.

The simple message is - don't help anyone else ou with experience or advice!

Message has been recieved loud and clear!

Take anything you can get and contribute nothing!

I'm not the only one - I've had a lot of PM's expressing similar views...

If you don't think you have a real perception problem, then your living in cloud cuckoo land.

Denial is not de river in Egypt.

sayin'

Ohh and an addendum - I was banned for what was said in PM's - because the mods read them- meaning they aren't private.

These moderators blokes probably look up little girls skirts as well! :~

[doug3030]

Anyone who has a post or thread deleted is notified with a reason for that deletion...
Cheers - Neil :U

Not even once in my case. Is this a new policy?

[Big Shed]

:lolabove: What a tosser.

:please: :banhim:

Darky

So Mr Timless Timber, is this member a moderator as well?:doh:

Couldn't have put it more eloquently myself.:2tsup:

You keep raving on about a new moderator, all the moderators here are of long standing and have contributed more to this forum than you will in your lifetime.
BTW, there is no watch list kept by the moderators, it is just that some members have a knack of bringing themselves to the mods' attention. You seem to have a black belt in this art.

You have had posts deleted by almost every member of the moderating team, including myself.

For a variety of reasons, but the overriding reason being that, despite your protestations, you don't contribute anything useful in most of your posts (with some exceptions) but instead go out of your way to take a thread off-topic, with mindless drivel.

You have received several warnings and finally got a temporary ban from the most patient member of our team. Despite all of that you continue to post off topic and irrelevant posts, which isn't fair to the original poster, nor to the forum membership at large, and creates unnecessary work for the Admin/Mod team.

So, to sum up, if you don't like our rules and/or our Admins/Moderators, feel free to move on to greener pastures, Ubeaut (Neil) has already given you a few suggestions. Why not try those and see how your style goes over there.

[Timless Timber]

One of your former "mods" made me aware of the list!

Also - I haven't broken rules - you've as much admitted you delete and ban coz you don't like or agree with what "content" members contribute!

You also breach the privacy of members PM's - because my last "banning notice" referred to just that!

Someone else here regularly "breaches the rules" by doing posts for commercial gain, thinly disguised as "reviews of equipment" and when members complain about a breach, you punish those who report it while protecting the member breaking the rules?

And you wonder why membership is declining?

You really have no idea do you?

You evem start threads asking why memberships declining and when people take the risk of telling you - then you attack them for it, rather than taking on board the message.

Fine. I'm done with it - because you cannot be helped. It's just a waste of time and effort.

There is a self righteous cult who hold sway here and most members are sick of it and leaving.



Depending on the circumstances, intercepting or accessing private communications without your knowledge or consent may involve a number of criminal offences. Commonwealth computer crime legislation in Part 10.7 of the Commonwealth Criminal Code (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/cca1995115/sch1.html) prohibits unauthorised access to 'restricted data', which means data (including emails) which are protected by some computerised access scheme. The Telecommunications (Interception and Access) Act 1979 (Cth) (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/taaa1979410/) prohibits intercepting communications, including emails, which are either passing over a network or stored on an ISPs server. Intercepting communications could also amount to stalking, which isa crime in all Australian States.There are also civil remedies which may be available. The most useful one is generally 'Breach of Confidence', which can act to prevent or punish the communication of private information obtained in circumstances where it would be unconscionable to disclose it - including eavesdropping and interception.If you suspect that someone has been intercepting or accessing your private information, you should contact a solicitor for further legal advice.

Breaking the law can have repercussions. :wink:

[Bedford]

All the trouble here for me personally has been trying to help others.

Was this the same trouble that caused your banning on several other forums?


I've had posts deleted with zero advice.

Nothing in the rules that says you have to be advised, http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=33202

The owner, administrators and moderators of this Forums reserve the right to delete any message or members for any or no reason whatsoever.


If your on the mods watch list they view every post looking for an excuse to delete and ban.

Not true, however if your posts are reported, we would be derelict in our duty if we didn't act in the best interests of the members and the forum.



The simple message is - don't help anyone else ou with experience or advice!

What a great attitude, considering you ask for help here, http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=182296 rather selfish don't you think?



Message has been recieved loud and clear!

Yes we have the message alright but it appears you're not getting it.


Take anything you can get and contribute nothing!

How self centered...


I'm not the only one - I've had a lot of PM's expressing similar views...

Congratulations.


Ohh and an addendum - I was banned for what was said in PM's - because the mods read them- meaning they aren't private.

I thought someone as clever as you tell us you are would realise that PM's have a Report Button, that is the only way Mods would see them unless they were forwarded by the receiver.


These moderators blokes probably look up little girls skirts as well! :~

We are too busy and have neither the time nor the inclination to look up little girls skirts, but have to wonder how you got your idea, one of your experiences you are writing about?

[Big Shed]

Fine. I'm done with it - because you cannot be helped. It's just a waste of time and effort.



Finally, you got the message, great, don't slam the door on the way out:;

[FenceFurniture]

Someone else here regularly "breaches the rules" by doing posts for commercial gainI'm interested to know what you define as a commercial gain.

[ubeaut]

Not even once in my case. Is this a new policy?

You didn't need a notification Doug, you were warned up front and knew exactly why you were banned.

Timless. I couldn't help myself. I just had to give you a like for your last message because it made me laugh out loud.

You obviously didn't take the time to read the thread or if you did you didn't understand it. But you in your inevitable style jumped in to have your say about being persecuted (even though you didn't use that word) and gave us your version of why members are leaving in their droves. No you definitey didn't take the time to read before responding.


You also breach the privacy of members PM's - because my last "banning notice" referred to just that!
It is impossible for anyone other than the recipient to read a Private Message. However if the recipient is offended or unhappy with the content of a message he/she receives he or she is well within the their rights to report that Private Message and if need be then the contents will be acted upon.


And you wonder why membership is declining?
Nope you still haven't read the thread.


You really have no idea do you?
We have the idea and know well that we do the right thing by our members. You on the other hand obviously have a problem with authority and getting along with others.


You evem start threads asking why memberships declining and when people take the risk of telling you - then you attack them for it, rather than taking on board the message.
Nup! Like I said, you didn't read the thread or maybe you think that plantagenon (the thread starter) is a stooge planted by the administrators and moderators. The thread was not started by an admin or moderator and was mostly concerned with the Pen Turning Forums section of the Woodturning Forums and asking why we didn't have a Chat Room

No where did anyone attack any member of the forums not even you until you had to have another go as you have done in the past. You have been given more than a fair go on these forums. You have been reported more times in the last few months than the combined reports of all other members in the past 12 months (with the exception of spammers).


These moderators blokes probably look up little girls skirts as well!
As for that offensive comment. Well that just goes to show the sort of person you really are.

If you wish to leave then please feel free to do so I doubt there will be many tears shed especially among the Admins and Mods. You might even hear a cheer go up. :woot:

If you wish to be banned please let me know and I will be more than happy to do so. Good luck with any other forum you decide to run amok in.

As I offered in my earlier post to anyone who wants out, here are the links to 2 other forums so you won't need to search for them Saw Mill Creek (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/) if you haven't already been banned and The Blokey Shed (http://theblokeyshed.com/forums/) they're going to love you over there, almost no rules but I'll bet you don't last too long on either.

Neil :~

[Michael G]

... you ask for help here, http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=182296

Timless,
Here I should confess to being one of the members who complain about some of your postings.Why? because they are long, dull and off topic.
I did have hopes in the thread above that you were asking sensible questions and staying on topic but then in post 35 you reported your car being damaged (with large photo) - Orange light starts flashing. Hmm.
Then I start thinking that perhaps I'll just make you a small handwheel and see if extending a hand in friendship gets anywhere. I spent several hours planning this out - material, order of operations - all that. On the very morning I was going to start I get up and there is post 41 in all it's glory, all about the cost of car repairs, which parts are needed, who might do it and all that.
No. You blew it.
Not interested.

Michael

[ubeaut]

The below is in response to the posting of what basically amount to a unfounded conspiracy theory garbage by Timless Timber.

If your on the mods watch list they view every post looking for an excuse to delete and ban.
I was banned for what was said in PM's - because the mods read them- meaning they aren't private.


For the information of everyone:



There is no such thing as an Administrators or Moderators "Watch List"

Mods and Admins will however keep an eye on a thread that has been reported and had flair ups between members or libellous/slanderous posts placed in it.
Mods will also act on reported posts if it is deemed necessary, either by an overwhelming number of reports or the general consensus of majority of Admins and Mods.
All new members have their posts moderated before they are shown on the live forums. This is as a protection against spamming and those one post wonders who come with the set agenda to slandering or defaming a business or person. etc.


No one can read another members Private Messages

Private messages are just that... PRIVATE. However if you intend to denigrate, bully or generally do the wrong thing in a private message then the recipient of that message has his right to report that message to the administration team or if they wish and to the police, their lawyer or anyone else they wish to see it. They can even keep it and use it in court as evidence if needed. It is no different to any other form of harassment and will not be tolerated in these forums. If you receives this sort of PM's I urge you to report it immediately to have it acted upon. Also hold on to for future reference if you think it might be needed.


Emails generated through the forums are also private. Email address can not be seen by others.

However the same thing applies to emails as to the Private Messaging system. Report any emails that are in the same vein as above.




Cheers - Neil :U

[Timless Timber]

Interesting.

You see...

You say that your guilty of reporting my posts not because they break any of the rules - but because they don't interest you.

Surely the option to put me on your ignore list is preferable to having everything I post deleted - even tho it doesn't breach the rules by being a tattle tail and reporting everything to the mods?.

As to the car - I was teaching my daughter and future son in law to drive - with a free driving lesson. Sadly a roo decided to end the lesson prematurely. I was again - just trying to help someone else out - and again - I get attacked publicly for doing so.

I didn't start this thread - I did attempt to give my point of view as to whats wring and been attacked for doing so.

Can no one see that the constant attacks on members is whats driving declining membership?.

This is where your problem lies in my opinion.

I doubt anyone's listening frankly.

[DavidG]

Can no one see that the constant attacks on members is whats driving declining membership?.

I have been a member of this forum since 2003.
I have been a moderator for longer than I remember.

I have never seen any form of attack on any member by the admin team. Can't say the same for member attacking member or mods.

In your short time here (less than one year) I have stood on your side several times giving you the benefit of the doubt.

I tried to forgive you as it appears to me you may have a personality problem which gets out of control at times.
You have submitted some good stuff and a pile of plain and simple "waffle" bordering bovine excrement.


These moderators blokes probably look up little girls skirts as well! :~
I am not sure what the admin team will do with you but I can no longer stand by you after you inferred that I was a pedophile.
I am really offended by your remark. :o

[doug3030]

You didn't need a notification Doug, you were warned up front and knew exactly why you were banned.
Neil :~

Neil, I am not talking about any previous identities under which I have been banned, This is just about my current identity. I have never been banned under this identity, but I have had plenty of posts vanish without a trace or any form of explanation.

So when you said
Anyone who has a post or thread deleted is notified with a reason for that deletion.I was seeking clarification as to whether this is a new policy which has been recently implemented, since I have never seen it happen when any posts I have made under this identity have been deleted.

I had no intentions of bringing up being banned under previous identities. I am well and truly over that and I think that you would find if you looked into it that one of your former moderators at that time was rather gifted in the art of modifying the truth to suit his own purposes. And I only mention that because you brought the subject up. I have no further interest in discussing that.

Cheers

Doug

[FenceFurniture]

I'm interested to know what you define as a commercial gain.Perhaps my post wasn't long enough to attract your attention?




Surely the option to put me on your ignore list is preferable to having everything I post deleted - even tho it doesn't breach the rules by being a tattle tail and reporting everything to the mods?.I don't have you on ignore, but I do a quick scroll check to see how long your posts are before I decide if I read them. I did used to read the long ones, until the pattern emerged.




As to the car - I was teaching my daughter and future son in law to drive - with a free driving lesson. Sadly a roo decided to end the lesson prematurely. I was again - just trying to help someone else out - and again - I get attacked publicly for doing so.There's off-topic, and then there's completely irrelevant. All you have to do is start a new thread on the subject of the roo in "Have your say".




I didn't start this thread - I did attempt to give my point of view as to whats wring and been attacked for doing so.

Can no one see that the constant attacks on members is whats driving declining membership?.Uh oh, my hypocrisy detector has just gone off-scale.

Do you not remember posting a long tirade (639 words) against another member which ended in the following
"You just don't pass the smell test (name withheld)... we aren't the yanks - we can smell a wannabee a fricken long way off."

followed by a PM to said member (532 words) saying how you'd received congratulatory PMs? The PM was far more vitriolic than the post.

The post and the PM were nothing but an attack - 2 in one day!

They both immediately preceded your banning.



I doubt anyone's listening frankly.How do you explain the numerous responses to your posts in this thread?

[Michael G]

You say that your guilty of reporting my posts not because they break any of the rules - but because they don't interest you.

No. Your posts when they were concise, said something of worth and on topic did interest me. It's the waffle I can't stand and it's the waffle I'll report particularly if it starts being way off topic, offensive or promoting theories contrary to established fact.

I'm sure that the moderators would have no hesitation in having some words with me if I started reporting otherwise quite reasonable posts just because I didn't like them.

I try not to use the ignore button because I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I must admit being tempted in some circumstances. However, at the moment to repeat myself I am

Not interested.

Michael

[DaveTTC]

Don't you love these threads

Timless - I personally find the looking up girls skirts ver offensive in the extreme manner when we are talking about predominantly grown men.

Had it been kids you were talking about that may be viewed different. I am immensely surprised the mods did not delete that post. What can be said is that it is there and been quoted many times for all to see.

Stating facts is one thing or even what you perceive to be truth but stooping to such low insults is going too far


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Sturdee]

These moderators blokes probably look up little girls skirts as well! :~

Personally I think that for making such insulting and derogative comments he should at least be permanently banned. :((

Peter.

[plantagenon]

All the trouble here for me personally has been trying to help others.

I've had posts deleted with zero advice.

If your on the mods watch list they view every post looking for an excuse to delete and ban.

The simple message is - don't help anyone else ou with experience or advice!

Message has been recieved loud and clear!

Take anything you can get and contribute nothing!

I'm not the only one - I've had a lot of PM's expressing similar views...


If you don't think you have a real perception problem, then your living in cloud cuckoo land.

Denial is not de river in Egypt.

sayin'

Ohh and an addendum - I was banned for what was said in PM's - because the mods read them- meaning they aren't private.

These moderators blokes probably look up little girls skirts as well! :~

Timeless - I have never had a thread, post deleted. This thread was posted to get the views of members on whether a chatroom should be permitted. After reading the crap you just put on about little girls skirts I can see the reason why people like you should not be allowed to make a comment without some sort of moderation. I can also understand why so many of your posts have been deleted. That comment was nothing more than defamatory.

[plantagenon]

One of your former "mods" made me aware of the list!

Also - I haven't broken rules - you've as much admitted you delete and ban coz you don't like or agree with what "content" members contribute!

You also breach the privacy of members PM's - because my last "banning notice" referred to just that!

Someone else here regularly "breaches the rules" by doing posts for commercial gain, thinly disguised as "reviews of equipment" and when members complain about a breach, you punish those who report it while protecting the member breaking the rules?

And you wonder why membership is declining?

You really have no idea do you?

You evem start threads asking why memberships declining and when people take the risk of telling you - then you attack them for it, rather than taking on board the message.

Fine. I'm done with it - because you cannot be helped. It's just a waste of time and effort.

There is a self righteous cult who hold sway here and most members are sick of it and leaving.



Breaking the law can have repercussions. :wink:

Indeed Timeless - breaking the law can have repercussions, including the laws of civil and criminal defamation. I also read your comments on the Telecommunications Interception Act (Cmth) (theTI Act) and the various Acts under its main heading. It is an offence to intercept a telecommunication in transit, i.e, between you and the intended recipient. However, this is not the case here, in law, as the intended recipent is the WW Forum and your comments are not intercepted but mere deleted by the recipient. Therefore, no offence. Irrespecitve of that when you joined the Forum you agreed to certain conditions and acknowledged that comments (posts) that are unacceptable would be deleted. This, in fact, is consistent with the concept of the TI Act and is not illegal - therefore, no offence. However, while you are on the law, there is also a provision under the TI Act and the Commonwealth Criminal Code which makes it an offence to send offensive comments via a telecommunications facility, in this case, the internet. I would have thought your comments regarding little girls skirts are getting very close to crossing the line if they haven't already. As Fred said, Don't slam the door on the way out.

[plantagenon]

Neal

This has degenerated from a sensible thread on what (if anything) would keep up the interest of members in the Forum. The majority of members have voted against it although essentially, this in not their choice, but yours as you pay for it. I am happy with the comments I received and the debated that ensued - it did get many people thinking and commenting. However, it has recently been lowered to personal attacks by very angry or disturbed people. The purpose of the thread has been served - can you remove or lock off my thread please.

[Groggy]

Oh dear, this thread really did not deserve to go where it did. A good question and some fair responses. General consensus seems to be no but there are occasions it would be nice to converse in real time with someone on a topic.

Thanks for the question plantagenon.

[danny.s]

Jesus guys, chill out. We're not saving whales here, it's just wood!

[DaveTTC]

on topic before this gets locked

I'm happy for chat rooms on the forum should it happen


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Evanism]

Wow, I have to admit this thread is rollicking good fun!

If I might add my 2 cents, I've actually found 5 really top guys here in Canberra due to this forum. Normally, your online mates are nothing but handles, a story and that's about it. These 5 chaps are great...intelligent, keen, skilled, helpful and interesting.

I don't think the forum is bad at all. I've certainly annoyed my fair share of people as my sarcasm and humour can be a little obtuse, but I don't think I've deliberately stabbed anyone....but some dudes do seem to be quick to deliberately find offence. Maybe it's the nature of the Internet now....different strokes and all that.

So, my experiences seem to be in pretty sharp contrast to....ah...others :U

Maybe the forum mods should put an earlier ban on these who refuse to trip their own 60 amp fuse?

[ubeaut]

This thread has been closed at Original Posters request and at the right time. Good post Evanism. :2tsup:
Timless Timber has left the building on post number 666.:banned:

Neil

:closed1: