What are the legalities of attaching a plug to an electrical lead?

[FenceFurniture]

I know that those in the know say that a plug must be fitted by a licenced sparky, but given that this operation is about as difficult as putting bread into a toaster, I wonder what the actual legalilties are here?

I was just speaking to the supplier of an electrical product that I purchased (which came without a plug) and he said "Licenced Sparky, unless you are competent". Well, I am competent for this extremely simple task - I've been fitting plugs and sockets to leads for decades - probably have done 400 or 500 by now.

I was quite obviously unimpressed at the lack of plug (and a few other aspects, which will be the subject of a different thread, later). I asked why it was not fitted, and he said "because we are not allowed to". So how come your saying that you can fit one if you are competent. Are you saying that you are incompetent??



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or moderators for advice offered by members posting replies
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WARNING

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[Bedford]

I was just speaking to the supplier of an electrical product that I purchased (which came without a plug)

What is the product?

[FenceFurniture]

A thicknesser (does it make a difference?).

[Bedford]

(does it make a difference?).

Well it does if it's a product like this, Electric HOT Water Heater Tankless Instant HOT Shower | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/181254950630?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649&clk_rvr_id=562394884646)




Don't use power plug for the heater, the heater must be directly connect to the air switch or circuit breaker;

[BobL]

In the eyes of the electrical authorities, it's not just about being able to safely wire up a plug - it's as much about
1) knowing all the electrical rules and regs
2) having access to the testing gear required to properly test the plug.

In WA a suitably competent person is someone like a qualified Electrical Engineer.
While electrical engineers don't have an "electrical ticket" as such, they are deemed qualified by virtue of their educational qualifications.

There are other very special cases like where I used to work where we had specialised gear that ran up to 20 kV that we either had to attend to ourselves or at huge expense get an specialist engineer from Germany to come out and attend to it.
As Head of Department I had to deem the staff involved with maintaining this gear as "competent" so they were legally covered.
The public liability issue was largely covered by highly controlled (swipe card) access, for example no member of the general public and only limited staff could even get in the same room as this gear
What is sort of a bit stupid is that these staff could not legally wire up a 240V extension cord - that of course was because of point 1) above.
Fortunately we did has several suitably qualified sparkies on staff that would do that.

[FenceFurniture]

Hmmm. I've just spoken to a Licenced Sparky (forum member), and he says that because it's not "fixed" wiring then it's ok to do it. That maybe a NSW regulation (don't get me started on the 7-8 different jurisdictions we have to endure).

Unbelievable that a $5600 machine comes without a $3-5 plug and...wait for it..... a 500mm power cord that won't even reach to a low set power point. HALF A BLOODY METRE! Because of the complexity of the lead going into the machine I now have to purchase two male plugs, a female plug (all 20 amp, so not cheap) and a couple of metres of 2.5mm 3-core and have it permanently set up with an extension lead. Woefully pathetic!

As I said, there'll be more in another thread, to make potential purchasers aware of the pitfalls of this very popular high-end European made machine (such as the poor instruction manual and extremely poor engineering of some components).

As I said to the supplier this morning, when I was selling property we didn't leave it to the purchaser to discover that they would have to get a locksmith around to gain entry because there were no keys supplied....

[FenceFurniture]

$71.92 for two plugs, one socket and two metres of flex, all because they are too miserable to put a decent length lead and a plug on it (probably about $7 or $8 worth at the prices they could buy it for).

Talk about a bad taste in my mouth. :((

[crowie]

Back in 1971 whilst I did my RAN enineering artificer-ship we did 120 plus hours of electricity as part of our training and used to do dis-connect & re-connect of motors & the like. In about 1979 when i started work in civy street my boss was please then shocked so to speak when I did the same on a machine in the plant....no license no touch.
BUT back to your issue Brett, send the supplier a bill to rectify the machine to make it serviceable as they sold it unserviceable....

[A Duke]

If it is 20A there is a bit more reason for not supplying a plug top as there are more than one type. There is one that goes with the normal 10A and 15A type that has all pins wide like the 15A earth pin and the 10A and 15A pugs will fit the 20A socket, then there is the more industrial round pin types and you could also connect single phase to a 5 pin 3 phase plug.
Its not all sparkies being up our selves its authorities covering them selves, more than one death has happened when the earth is connected wrong.
And I haven't even mentioned foreign standards, you think our 7/8 are a lot.
I was taught how to fit a plug top by my mother at 6 years of age (not quite at the breast) but we had about 3 different plug types and people often had to change them on all appliances when they moved house and every thing was sold with a bare flex. So I know anyone can fit a plug.
Regard:)

[Timless Timber]

Any fool including me - can wire a 3 pin plug.

But

We can also wire it reverse polarity without even knowing.

It may still work fine - until the day it doesn't (work) at which point it can fuse open circuit and kill someone.

Without the gear & knowledge to test for reversed polarity - how would you know? (that you'd wired it incorrectly in the first place).

Any fool can wire a plug to make it work, its the educated fool who can wire it to make it NOT work when it's not s'posed too.

That's what you pays the big bucks for.

All the usual qualifiers apply.... (others mileage my vary, & I ain't no sparky, & get proper qualified electrical tradesman etc etc etc no doubt the Mods will add such to this thread header soon enough).

[FenceFurniture]

BUT back to your issue Brett, send the supplier a bill to rectify the machine to make it serviceable as they sold it unserviceable....Well, I will be talking to Fair Trading about whether or not a machine can be sold without a plug because as you say, it's unserviceable. I also want to speak to the relevant electrical authority (not sure who it is though) about the cable that is supplied with the machine. The Active and Neutral are both black, and if you happen to bare them in the right place they are labelled "1" and "2". I did the right thing and called my mate back just to ensure that "1" was Active, before connection.



If it is 20A there is a bit more reason for not supplying a plug top as there are more than one type. There is one that goes with the normal 10A and 15A type that has all pins wide like the 15A earth pin and the 10A and 15A pugs will fit the 20A socket, then there is the more industrial round pin types and you could also connect single phase to a 5 pin 3 phase plug.Agreed Hugh - but then how hard is it for them to ask which kind of plug will need to be fitted? (mine is three flat pins)



Any fool including me - can wire a 3 pin plug. But we can also wire it reverse polarity without even knowing.Yes, you need to be aware that brown/red is active and blue/black is neutral, and you need to know how to use a screwdriver. Apart from that, the plugs are all labelled these days with "A" and "N".


I had a call a little while ago from the supplier - their solution is to come and pick the machine up and issue a refund :doh: I said "I've done it now, and I'm quite sure the machine will perform as expected". He just doesn't seem to be able to pick up on the fact that this (and some other things) are super-easily corrected by them fitting a decent length cable and the client's choice of plug. If it was just "no plug" it wouldn't be so bad - just $16.62 to buy (assuming of course that one has an electrical wholesaler or a proper hardware nearby). The real kiss off comes with the stupidly short cable which means $32.02 for a socket, another $16.62 for a second male and $5.46 for 2 metres of flex - all because they scabbed out on the $5.46 in the first place (would be less of course, for them buying it by the roll (remembering that it is too tricky to rewire a new cable into the machine itself).

He just can't see that even though the Euro manufacturer is intransigent about putting a longer cable on it, the power to solve the problem is in the Aussie agent's hands (when all the other machines they make do have longer cables). That just shows a profound lack of understanding of sales ethos (now there's an Australian surprise). In fact he ended up saying that it was easy to solve to which I replied "then 'king well do it - solve the problem before it happens - $4-6 for 2-3 metres of flex and maybe $10 for a plug - turnkey systems".:banghead: He also kept on saying that they don't know how long the client will need the cable, and 2m may not be enough. Sure, but at least the bloody thing can be switched for testing! And, hey, here's an idea :think:- when asking the client which plug type they'll need you could also ask how long their cable requirements are, or is that just offering too much service? :fisch:

Anyway, have just put the first stick over it and all appears to be okay - now for a piece of gnarly Forest Red Gum. Will report back in another thread.

[RETIRED]

As far as no plug goes: The main reason is that these are classed as industrial machines and in most cases are hard wired in situ, so why put plugs on them that are going to be made redundant.

[Sturdee]

don't get me started on the 7-8 different jurisdictions we have to endure..


Thank God that we have different jurisdictions with different laws and regulations. Otherwise we, in Victoria, would be inflicted by the many restrictive regulations and laws that apply in the other states. Many a times I read of requirements that are applicable in NSW or Qld that don't apply here.


Peter.

[A Duke]

Glade you got it going FF, would be better if you were happy as well.
Thanks for sharing it so we can all put it down to experience.
:D
Regards

[FenceFurniture]

As far as no plug goes: The main reason is that these are classed as industrial machines and in most cases are hard wired in situ, so why put plugs on them that are going to be made redundant.Yebbut don't all the machines from Carbatec et al come with plugs? I've never read that they don't. Gawd save us - even CT supply their Chinese/Taiwanese machines with more than ½ metre of power lead.....

In any case, it still goes back to the salesman making the customer aware of it and asking the question - "what plug, if any, do you require?"

[FenceFurniture]

Thank God that we have different jurisdictions with different laws and regulations. Otherwise we, in Victoria, would be inflicted by the many restrictive regulations and laws that apply in the other states. Many a times I read of requirements that are applicable in NSW or Qld that don't apply here.


Peter.Yes Peter, there are good and bad in every jurisdiction - no one state has all the good or all the bad. Qld e.g. has the best petrol prices (of the eastern states anyway) but probably the worst environmental record as a whole, particularly in the 70s and 80s. They are even considering putting a coal loader near the Barrier Reef :no:. Currently NSW appears to be the corruption champs from the previous administration.

[rustynail]

Brett! Settle! This is not the end of the world. You have a nice new machine and the ability to do things you couldn't do before. For what its worth, every industrial machine I have ever bought has come with a short bit of lead and no plug. I now expect it. Even second hand machine suppliers cut the plug off before delivery. I guess the only reason your machine had the short bit of cable was to show type and orientation.
Merry Christmas mate. Keep smiling.

[A Duke]

Funny enough all my cheap & dicey tools have come with the longest leads (GMC etc.)
Just some thing I had noticed..
Regards

[doug3030]

Yebbut don't all the machines from Carbatec et al come with plugs? I've never read that they don't. Gawd save us - even CT supply their Chinese/Taiwanese machines with more than ½ metre of power lead....."

When I bought my 21" bandsaw from Carbatec it came with a long thick power lead AND NO PLUG. So I bought a 15 amp plug and fitted it. I can see why you are a bit annoyed about such a short lead though. As you said the cost of fitting a decent length of lead at the manufacturing stage is negligible and its easier to shorten it than lengthen it.

To the best of my knowledge, you dont need any qualification to LEGALLY work on anything that is not plugged in. However that does not mean that just anyone SHOULD do it.

Like many here I have done it often, as recently as last weekend, and since I start my 39-day holiday today (not gloating or anything :D ) I bet I do several more over the next few weeks.

If you know what you are doing, and exercise common sense it should all be good. An example I can cite for how not to do it was something I found at a house I once rented where the power lead connecting an external power point to an external hot water system with a power lead made out of the lead cut off an appliance joined to a power lead with the plug end cut off by twisting the wires and wrapping with sticky tape. The "joint" was dragging on the ground in a drain. Thats what I mean about common sense.

Cheers

Doug

[DavidG]

DISCLAIMER

No liability is accepted by UBeaut or the Wood Working Forum's administrators
or moderators for advice offered by members posting replies
or asking questions regarding electrical work.
We strongly advise contacting a Licensed Tradeperson for all electrical work.

WARNING

Information supplied within posts is not to be considered as detailed formal instructions to complete a task.
Members following such information do so at their own risk

[Mobyturns]

[QUOTE=FenceFurniture;1728361]Hmmm.
Unbelievable that a $5600 machine comes without .....
(all 20 amp, so not cheap)
QUOTE]

Is it such a straightforward job? I don't know anything about your setup or situation but a $5600 seems to be an industrial capacity and not a hobbyists machine & seems to be a little outside the straight forward if it requires 20A plugs.. :?

What power is it?
What current will it draw on startup, under load?
Do the circuits in your shed have the capacity for the load & any combined ancillary load? i.e. dust extraction.

Make sure you set yourself up safely so you can get many years of enjoyment from it rather than have one shocking experience. :oo:

[FenceFurniture]

It's rated as 3000w, 230 volts (so 13A), but also states 19.8A, so that would be the startup draw. Yes I have two 20A circuits installed - one is dedicated to the thicky, and the other for everything else.

The thread on it is here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f154/hammer-a3-31-thicky-jointer-good-machine-but-buyer-beware-certain-aspects-180000/).

[Handyjack]

Is it possible the short lead is provided so it can be wired first to an emergency stop on the floor?
As has been mentioned many machines are hard wired.

[FenceFurniture]

They don't seem to know. All the other machines in the brand have some sort of decent length.

[Pac man]

So you wouldn't "plug" the brand or supplier?

[FenceFurniture]

So you wouldn't "plug" the brand or supplier?Ha bloody ha. Actually, I would, with caveat - it's a great machine, just be aware.

[Christos]

..... (others mileage my vary, & I ain't no sparky, & get proper qualified electrical tradesman etc etc etc no doubt the Mods will add such to this thread header soon enough).

Done. :U

[Chris Parks]

Having just bought a Felder slider I can say that every single person who does the install themselves has issues which most take in their stride and get on with it. The overall problem came to a head when Felder decided to get serious in the North American market and the Yanks started complaining about the instructions or lack of them. What you receive is a book that is fairly forgettable and for every custom specification a sheet of drawings is included which are not instructions and by any stretch cannot be called instructions. To pacify the Yanks Felder produced some Youtube videos on the slider but it still has large black holes in it depending on the model.


Why is it so? Apparently it is very unusual in Europe for a machine not to be installed by the factory and they don't need instructions. As for the electrical connection I have now seen three totally different problems on recently delivered machines. Felder will deliver and install and commission any machine bought from them and leave that option to each customer. The fact that I chose to not take up the offer was my choice but i do expect a machine to have adequate docs and the electrical connection to be compliant to the market it is delivered into. It was pointed out to me more than once that the electrical connection was to be done by an electrician and I was always aware of that.

[FenceFurniture]

Felder will deliver and install and commission any machine bought from them and leave that option to each customer. .......It was pointed out to me more than once that the electrical connection was to be done by an electrician and I was always aware of that.Interesting Chris. He was busily telling me that they were not allowed to fit plugs (and ipso facto longer leads). He didn't have much to say when I asked him how they handle warranty repairs of an electrical nature.

So do they send a Sparky out to do the install? I think not. Just a matter of saying whatever is convenient at the time.

[Chris Parks]

I never went into the details as they did not concern me. Mine had a very short lead and a Euro DIN plug on it as they run the machine as part of QC. Maybe it just missed getting the plug removed but I know of another delivered with the Euro plug. Mine was three phase and required 10 metres of lead and a plug I already had. They had to get right back into the machine connector box to connect, $110 for the sparky.