How does copyright apply to the forum?

[Michael G]

A forum member is interested in the details of a bit of gear I have (would like to make one similar) . I've posted a couple of photos and some rough sketches of some details of the item so far but as I add more and more details, I'm getting closer to basically publishing the complete design. My understanding is that the company who made the equipment no longer exist.

Is measuring up someone else's equipment and then putting sketches/ drawings on the forum going to cause copyright issues?

What proportion of the design is it considered "fair" to publish


How long does a company not have to exist before publishing details of their designs does not matter
Should there be a disclaimer on the sketches stating that they are not for commercial use and only for the purpose of study/ comparison


Thanks,
Michael

[Master Splinter]

For copyright - it's really simple. If it is in copyright but you can't contact the owner of the copyright to get permission, you can't use it. Can't find the person? Can't use it. Business assets were sold? Find the person who purchased the businesses' intellectual property and get permission from them.



Any work that was published in the lifetime of the author who died before 1 January 1957, is out of copyright.
Any work that was published in the lifetime of the author who died after 31 December 1956, will be out of copyright 70 years after the author's death.


Nothing wrong with taking pictures and including measurements or drawing up measurements of a physical object, though. If you made molds from the original and started casting new ones exactly like the old ones, that might be an infringement, but if you 'reverse-engineered' the device 'for the purposes of compatibility', that's fine too.

[snowyskiesau]

I would have thought that this was more a patent or a registered design issue that a matter of copyright?

[Master Splinter]

Design registration lasts for a maximum of ten years in Australia, patents for a maximum of 20.

[Michael G]

Agree if I am publishing scans of an author's work directly - although I believe that reproducing a small portion for education purposes is permitted.
I'm talking about measuring up parts from an item and then posting on the forum a dimensioned picture of the parts. Now an isolated view or two would not be giving away a company's IP, especially as it could be argued that the intent is not to copy but to learn/ discuss how a particular part works.
However, to publish a set of sketches such that the complete item could be made could have the same effect as publishing a set of the company's drawings. I don't know enough about IP laws to know whether this is right or wrong. I was hoping that one of the mods knew about this as there should be (I hope) some guide lines on this.
With my limited knowledge, I would say that patents are not as bad - they describe a principle and expire after a certain time. The thing you make may be totally different to the thing that the company has made using the same patented principle.

Michael

[RETIRED]

We are looking at it.

[Mobyturns]

A very simple guide, copyright applies to documentation i.e. an object, sculpture, artwork, photographs, craftwork, calculations, programs, text, drawings, sketches, audio, & film but does not apply to styles, or ideas. Other important considerations are moral rights and attribution of the original author.

Patents, trademarks, registered designs etc apply to protect intellectual property (IP) - the idea or design.

Both have differing spans of "ownership" and are treated quite differently between jurisdictions, some even permit assigning copyright to another. In Australia an author of material does not have to assert their copyright in the original material, only prove they are the author and it is original and not simply a copy or reproduction of another’s material, where as some jurisdictions require the copyright be registered or asserted. Copyright permits "fair dealing" in some limited applications, however publishing copyright material on the internet without permission of the lawful copyright owner is generally not considered "fair dealing" and may infringe the copyright owners rights.

This link may answer some of your questions Find an Answer - Australian Copyright Council (http://www.copyright.org.au/find-an-answer/browse-by-a-z/) - go to the "Designs For Functional Articles" for basic guidance on your matter.

Using another’s design by reverse engineering or copying etc is a whole new kettle of fish and depending upon the financial rewards to be gained may be hotly contested in the courts.

[ubeaut]

If it has a copyright on it then the info in post 2 should apply and if you can't get the permission of the copyright owner then don't put it on here.

If it is patented then check with the patents office for the legalities.

If you are sketching, photographing, describing, etc. and article that you want reproduce as a copy, my best suggestion is to do it in private or suffer the consequences if it all goes awry on here.

Woodwork forums does not condone the passing on of copyrighted material or the infringement of patents, so if you think you are in the wrong then it's entirely possible you are and such material should not be posted in these forums. Woodwork Forums is a neutral facilitator. We are solely the the vehicle for dissemination of information and will not be held responsible for any violation of copyright or patent laws. If we are legally pushed, all information about the poster of such information will be handed over to authorities and the poster will be the one who is prosecuted not the forums.

The below information is taken from THIS THREAD (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f90/while-youre-read-too-33200/)
The entire snippet is relevant but I have highlighted the more relevant section in maroon.

By clicking on the Agree button when you register to become a member of Woodwork Forums: you agree to remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, you also agree to indemnify and hold blameless Woodwork Forums, U-Beaut Enterprises the administrators, moderators, and their agents with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s).

The owner and head administrator of Woodwork Forums reserves the right to reveal your identity (or whatever information we know about you) in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by you. We also reserve the right without prejudice to ban any member from posting or using the Bulletin Board.

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Cheers - Neil Ellis
Head Administrator

[Michael G]

Moby's link turned up an interesting paragraph -
Designs for 3D features which are not buildings or works of artistic craftsmanship
If you own rights in a design for a functional article, you will generally need to apply for design
registration unless the design is:
• in two dimensions only; or
• a building; or
• a work of artistic craftsmanship.
Examples where design registration is likely to be needed include: a design drawing for a machine;
a 3D prototype for a household appliance; and a design that is “embodied in” a product (for
example, woven into the item, impressed onto it, or worked into it in some other way).


Based on that, it seems that if design registration has expired (10 years) or has not been applied for (If registration is needed, you must register your design before you start exhibiting, manufacturing or marketing it), then there should not be an issue - however, as Moby says reverse engineering with a view to commercial gain adds another spin to the matter. To answer my own questions,


Is measuring up someone else's equipment and then putting sketches/ drawings on the forum going to cause copyright issues? Probably not, unless it causes commercial exploitation issues

What proportion of the design is it considered "fair" to publish Ethically, as little as possible


How long does a company not have to exist before publishing details of their designs does not matter Design registration runs out after 10 years, patents are 16/ 20?
Should there be a disclaimer on the sketches stating that they are not for commercial use and only for the purpose of study/ comparison Not strictly necessary, but as a minimum acknowledging ownership is probably polite


Note that I am not a lawyer and this is my personal interpretation. Seek legal advice before relying on this interpretation...

Thanks Neil
Not quite the sort of answer I was hoping for (that one started "You can post drawings provided that..."), but good enough to work with.

Thanks to all who took part
Michael

[Master Splinter]

Do a sketchup design of it and anonymously upload it to one of the sketchup file sharing sites, then you can tell people that some thoughtful person 'has done this'. Problem solved.