Oil but glossy plz help

[section1]

I'm going insane over this the exact look I want to achieve is in the carba tec latest focus mag on page 11 AWR Box maker 2014 unfortunately I cannot find a sample pic on the net to show you.

Now I've tried burnishing with organoil burnisher and then applied EEE over it, nope didn't work I've tried every friggin ubeaut product out there and all I've managed to do is burn right through the oil and shellawax left blotches so I quickly learned it isn't compatible with organoil or maybe any oil.

I've used watco danish oil and and tried EEE on that the result was better but I didn't get that look, I haven't tried Rustins danish oil they tell me you get a thicker film than watco danish oil which is a good thing but from what I've read it's a dull look and that's not what I want. Finally I've read on a UK website that rustins teak oil leaves a glossy look but I cannot locate it anywhere here not even on rustins website. So how do I achieve that look.

Lastly I've tried the minwax paste wax and you do get a nice sheen but if you run your finger nail lightly on the timber it leaves a scratch mark which you cannot buff out also if you press fairly hard same deal.

I have lambs wool buffer installed on my lathe if I run it a high speed it burns through all the layers if I run it slow the gloss doesn't build up and eventually you burrn through all the layers so I'm at a lost I just don't know what to do. I want to use an oil to pop the grain but I don't want to apply any poly on it nor lacquer but I do want a glossy effect. How do I do it. How do the box makers do it.:?:C

[Timless Timber]

Just a suggestion, birchwood casey true oil?

I hand finished a European Walnut rifle stock with it once, and the more you rubbed it the shinier gloss it got... came up pretty well.

Don't know about the lambs wool pad with it - not sure how that will go - it seems to be the heat created by friction of rubbing makes the gloss, whether the pad on the lathe will be too hot and burn thru I don't know. The only time I've used a lambswool pad with wax etc - it was mounted on a car polisher like panel beaters use, which don't spin so fast like say an angle grinder does.

I would sand down to 1200 grit before oiling - in essence if you sand it until the wood itself shines... anything you add afterwood, will hopefully make it shine more.

Always tough to find a finnish you like.. but once you do - you stick with it - some woods with "high resin content" (resiniferous) occasionally won't take certain finishes well.

I guess I adloped the "suck it and see" principle... school of finishing.

Best of luck with it.

[tea lady]

I do rustins danish oil. 2 or three coats- rubbed on then whipped off. Then a day later rub Ubeaut Traditional wax. Let dry a bit then buff off with a soft cloth.

EEE is an abrasive so will rub back through the finish.

[section1]

I do sand all the way up to 1500 then I changed it to 400 aafter aplying a second coat of danish I would rub it with 400 to build a slurry and work my way up to 2000, ok so it's smooth and level but what about that glossy look.

[tea lady]

You do the slurry thing with the hard burnishing oil. But only at the low grits. Then after you have done a few coats at around 400 don't add more oil just go up in grits. Then burnish with lambswool last. Not too much elbow grease though.

Trad wax over DO for the glossy look. Trad wax is high canuba wax so won't mark as easily as bees wax finishes.

[section1]

Trad wax is traditioal wax sorry I'm not clued on with shortcut words

[Robson Valley]

I like the look of a high gloss finish on many of my (unpainted) wood carvings.
The Diamond Willow furniture shop down my street uses MinWax Tung Oil Finish
to show off the elegant grain patterns in wite and various shades of orange-brown.
Beds, tables & chairs ($2,000+), hiking sticks, canes ($50 - 70.)

I decided that I would use that.
I do three coats and get exactly the appearance that I was looking for.

> The diamonds vary from 2 - 15cm. They form as "rings" of elevated
> wood growth around the position of original branches. The effect
> appears to be created by some sort of fungus/rot infection.

[section1]

but is it the same look I'm after, I'm starting to think that maybe pure tung oil will give a glossy look am I wrong in my assumptions. What about that Liberon finish at carba tec will that give me what I want

[LGS]

Hi Section 1,

If the pics below shows what you are after, then try the following, using Wattyl Natural Scandinavian Oil (or Hard Burnishing Oil, but the HBO requires a bit more work and is easy to mess up.) Actually, you can also use pure Tung Oil diluted 1:2 in White Spirit. That works well also. I've used Liberon and Sceney's (The latter is about $20/litre and works well)

1. Sand the work piece to 400 grit using a Random Orbital Sander. (ROS) I start at 80 or 100 depending on the timber.
2. Saturate the work piece with the Oil and allow to sit for 15 minutes -half an hour.
3. Give the work piece another quick coat of Oil.
4. Begin sanding immediately, starting with the 400 pad you used on the dry timber. Use 10 up and down strokes with the sander on each segment of the work area.
5. Continue sanding, without removing the slurry, up through the grits. I use 800, 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000 and 4000g. Try to get to at least 2000 if you can.
6. Give the finished surface a vigorous rub with a soft cotton cloth and allow to dry for a few hours.

The finish is resistant to radiant heat and hot and cold liquids.

Regards,

Rob

[section1]

Thanks for that great info but I'm already able to achieve that look you have on the table top but the look I'm referring to is the one from the carba tec magazine page 11 where there is three joined love hearts boxes.

[tea lady]

Pure tung oil is a matt finish isn't it? Goes dull after a while anyway.

[section1]

I've never tried pure tung oil but I know it's best to thin it, I've spent quite a bit of money on various finishes and I still can't find the look I'm after. I've asked boxmakers before but they replied with a smile and looked the other way.

[LGS]

Pure tung oil is a matt finish isn't it? Goes dull after a while anyway.

Not if it's used as a burnishing oil and put on the right way. I've got furniture 6 years old that still has a shine to it.

[LGS]

Is this (http://www.carbatec.com.au/Oil-Finishing) what you mean. The result in the "tray" with the fiddle back book match?

I get that daily using the method I detailed, but using Tung Oil, HBO or Scandinavian Oil

Regards,

Rob

[Timless Timber]

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/primary/326/326934.jpg

http://www.nagelhome.com/gunstock1/FinR.jpg

http://fredyen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/20130105_073506-300x225.jpg

http://forum.gon.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118867&stc=1&d=1203706861

How glossy do you want?
I personally can't see your going to get it real glossy, if you sand to 1200 then start at 400 again once you add the oil..... :doh:

Again - if you sand it so fine that it shines before you put oil & wax on - then hopefully after the oil & wax and rubbing it should be even shinier!

My 2c

[Robson Valley]

There is another possibility that nobody is willing to bring up.

In this day and time, digital photography is the norm, yes?
Let us suppose that the magazine editors have Photoshopped
the color spectrum/hue/color/balanceand brightness for the purposes of the article.
There is not a snow ball's chance in Hello that you can do what you see.
= give it up, quietly.
Amen

[LGS]

[QUOTE=Timless Timber;1702

How glossy do you want?
I personally can't see your going to get it real glossy, if you sand to 1200 then start at 400 again once you add the oil..... :doh:

My 2c[/QUOTE]

Well, you see, you don't do that. You start sanding up to 400 from scratch, then you add the oil and continue sanding as the method says.:rolleyes:

[section1]

Wow wonderful posts after doing extensive research all day and coming now on the forum to post my findings I see posts already written up to what took me all day to find out. Bloody email didn't inform me of new posts.

Firstly I spoke to carba tec and asked them about that photo and the guy said the same thing it's been altered in photoshop, bloody marketers but there is light at the end of the tunnel.

There are three products that will give you that shiny look

Tru oil
Rustins Teak Oil
Rustins Finishing Oil


Now unfortunately the teak and finishing oils I wasn't able to locate in Australia but the tru oil I was and having seen the sample pics posted earlier you just can't get it any better. The fact that I can control the sheen is just perfect. So Tru oil is my choice on this and I feel it will be the one I will use all the time, having said that not everything needs to be shiny only certain products so after having used Watco danish oil for so long I think I will definitely make the switch to Rustins Danish oil. It completely dries in 2 hours so in an 8 hour period I can apply 4 coats. The facts are as they are Danish oil is nothing more than a blend of Boiled linseed oil and varnish something anyone can make up but whatever they put in it to make it dry so quickly I haven't the faintest but it's good news. With Watco sure enough it's dry within 8 to 10 hours but it's not fully cured until a week or sometimes more depending on the humidity which has bitten me several times. This to me has always been a pain and a nuisance.

Lastly another great product I've been using that creates an eggshell appearance is Minwax Antique oil.

[Timless Timber]

Well, you see, you don't do that. You start sanding up to 400 from scratch, then you add the oil and continue sanding as the method says.:rolleyes:

OK but that's not what the OP wrote that he does, i.e.


I do sand all the way up to 1500 then I changed it to 400 aafter aplying a second coat of danish I would rub it with 400 to build a slurry and work my way up to 2000

Seemed wrong to me!. :)

[LGS]

OK but that's not what the OP wrote that he does, i.e.



Seemed wrong to me!. :)

Yep...me too!

[section1]

Sorry for the confusion they were two separate experiements. First experiement I worked it up to 1500 then applied the oil and tried make a slurry with the last grit but the second experiment the last grit used was 400 and worked my way up then

[Toymaker Len]

No mention of Livos oil. Its a very high quality german made oil that builds more gloss with more coats. Its also the finish that Bungendore Gallery insists upon. Its very thin when you wipe it on and then buff off after ten/fifteen minutes. Leave a couple of days between coats. Five coats will give you a high gloss. If you want the really shiny gloss you have to go to french polish.

[section1]

Lol I just noticed I misspelled experiment wrong twice. I will have a look at that oil you mentioned

[section1]

Ive had a look at livo and I'm very impressed with its finished look at least with what I've seen in the presentation video. I must note there are products out there that give much better results than whats on the shelves of our woodworking stores.
I'm glad we have a forum like this its you guys the hobbyist, professionals who makes this a viable place to source information. It's you the user who has tried and tested many products that make you more knowledgeable than the seller.

Rustins Danish oil I've come to learn has a 4 week curing period yet Rustins claim you can on the lathe use it and wax immediately which surprised me so who to believe I can't say. However Watco apparently has a 5 day curing period 8-10 hr dry time Rustins has a two hr dry time so why if true would it take 4weeks to cure. Rustins also claim that there film is thicker than watco but watco doesn't have a film you can't build one up no matter how many coats you put on it. As an experiment I tried 4 coats on pine with shellac as a sealer mainly to speed things up and i managed to create a film which was disastrous looking. Unless i try Rustins myself i can only speculate between the two different stories I'm getting.

at least for now I'm looking forward in getting the tru oil its expensive though 900ml bottle cost me $50 plus postage so I'm still on the hunt for this perfect oil.

[Timless Timber]

The Material Safety Data Sheet on birchwoodcasey.com lists the ingredients of Tru-Oil as:

>56% Mineral Spirits
<33% "Modified Oil" (whatever that may be )
<11% Linseed Oil - OELs as vegetable oil mist (whatever that means).

http://www.bisley-uk.com/stockimages/documents/BCTOA_BCTO3.pdf

There is a spray on aerosol can variety also which has slightly different contents but includes the 3 above - just in different proportions to let it be thin enough to atomize I guess.

Trichloroethylene 50-55%
Propane 11 - 17%
Isobutane 9 - 13%
n-Heptane < 5%
Mineral Spirits** (** = OELs as Stoddard Solvent) < 10%
Modified Oil < 6%
Linseed Oil*** (*** = OELs as vegetable oil mist) < 2%


http://sport.birchwoodcasey.com/files/MSDS/23245_TruOilAerosolFinish_2010_discontinued.pdf

For what little it's worth. :)

This "modified oil" seems to be some proprietary oil that Birchwood Casey use.... :?

This exercise reminds me of the great success of the Old US "Snake Oil - "Marvey Mystery Oil" (Coz for about 100 years no one knew the 'Col Sanders secret herbs and spices recipe) until MSDS regulations came into being ad it turned out it was just standard auto trans fluid and turpentine or something equally simple.... :roll:

It was the original "mechanic in a can" solution, to everything that ailed an automobile and made its "inventor" a wealthy man - until everyone worked out they could make it at home for a mere fraction of the cost!. :rolleyes:

Who knows - maybe the modified oil is a form of Tung oil & linseed oil combined? :? (Sheer speculation on my behalf).

I've seen it suggested that:-



Linseed, tung and several other oils are drying oils.
Tung may be marginally harder than linseed but neither is particularly hard.
That's why resins are added to oils (then they are called varnishes).
Drying oils will dry, if given the right conditions.
Technically, they absorb atmospheric oxygen which promotes crosslinking (polymerization).
There is an initial period of rapid absorption followed by steady, slow absorption and cross-linking. If the coat is too thick, the surface will begin the absorption/cross-linking and create a barrier that prevents, or dramatically slows, absorption of oxygen below the surface. This results in a soft, uncured film.
There are many thing that are done to promote polymerization, adding driers (typically now cobalt octoate rather than the traditional lead) and starting the cross- linking. This has included boiling-thus "boiled linseed oil" though that may be a bit of a misnomer these days. When oils are partially polymerized they become thicker and require the addition of solvents to make them workable.

And as far as method of application....



1 You will need lemon oil, tru-oil and true-wax. The tru oil and wax can be bought from Birchwood.
You will also need some fine sandpaper and 00 grain steel wool. And some soft rags of course.
2 Evenly sand the existing finish off the timber surface.
3 Clean the dust and dirt off with lemon oil. Be sure to buff all the lemon oil off before moving on.
4 With a soft rag spread an even amount of tru-oil on the surface and let it dry for 10 to 20 min or until REAL sticky.
5 Buff off the tru-oil with 00 Grain steel wool.
6 Buff with soft rag until timber surface is no longer sticky.
7 Apply a large but even amount of tru-wax and let dry for 5 to 10 min.
8 Wipe excess tru-wax off.
9 Vigorously buff the timber surface with a soft rag. You will know by touch when it is done.
10 Let the timber surface cure for one week then repeat process.


and / or this method suggested on a guitar makers forum for necks of guitars (Where you need a smooth non tacky finish to allow the hand to slide up and down rapidly without friction to finger the strings onto the fret boards).



If you are starting with a bare wood neck that's been prepped (by prepped neck, I mean a neck that has been sanded, and whiskered. “Whiskering” is using a damp cloth to raise the grain after which the wood is sanded or steel wooled to remove the "whiskers". I recommend whiskering at least 2-3 times before staining.) , the first thing to do is to stain the wood.

What I use is Stew Macs' vintage amber water based stain. It's able to be adjusted to whatever shade you like very easily. Also, the stain is carried into the grain more deeply because the water doesn't evaporate as fast as alcohol, or oil based stain. This is what gives the grain "pop" you hear about.

Normally I stain, let dry, steel wool the neck with 0000 steel wool, wipe down and stain again. Then LIGHTLY steel wool again just to smooth the wood and remove excess stain from the surface.

After the stain is the color you like you can begin applying the oil. This is done by dipping your finger into the bottle and applying a generous amount to the wood, rubbing it into the wood with two fingers I try to apply enough oil to cover about 3-4 inches at a time. On this first coat you can go fairly heavy with the oil as the neck will drink it in.

Try to work in such a manner as to always be working the fresh oil into the oil you just rubbed in, smoothing and blending it together so there is no seam between the two areas. When rubbing in the oil try to be brisk so the oil heats slightly from the friction.
When the neck has been covered let it sit for several hours, or until it is no longer tacky, at which time you repeat the process. You'll find that after about three coats the oil will begin to build, and less oil will be needed to coat the neck.

Steel wool the neck lightly, after about four coats, just to create a nice smooth surface for the next coat. I usually apply 7-8 coats and after the final coat I let the neck sit overnight to allow the oil to harden.

When the oil feels dry and hard I very lightly steel wool the finish until it's no longer shiney. Try not to remove a lot of the finish, just burnish it to remove the high gloss shine. let the neck sit for an hour or two and then use a clean cloth ( Old denim or T-shirt cloth works well) to buff the neck up and down fairly fast and you will bring the finish to a nice sheen!

This finish will be fast, but, it will get even faster as it cures, say a week or two. I try to finish the neck on a guitar first so that when the body is ready the neck will be well cured and feel as though it has been played for ten years!Hope that's of some more help perhaps. :)

[section1]

I watched several videos of this guitar maker demonstrating watco danish oil and now the tru oil. With the tru oil he didn't do any of that stuff written he just applied it waited two hrs gave it a light sand then waited another two and this time barely scratching the surface with sand paper and gave it another coat. I cant remember whether it was two or three coats but the results were just what I'm looking for.

last night i purchase livo and am looking forward in giving that a go. Im determined to find the right oil for me.

Remember that ad oils ain't oils.

Thanks for the info that was great btw i already knew the ingredients on how to make danish oil one day i just might give it a go

[section1]

After having received the Livos It's nice but expensive. This morning I put on my second coat a sheen is already developing the wait time is between 12-24hrs you only need to steel wool it on the second and three to four coats are recommended. The draw backs are the smell it's not a loud smell but you couldn't coat the inside of cabinets or drawers much like danish oil.. It's also a little to thick I would recommend thinning if applying by hand with a bio thinner unfortunately you can't use any other type of thinner. Kind of gotcha by the manfacturer. 250ml cost me $32, 5 litres is about $400+ a little way over my budget honestly I don't see why it should cost that much. I've applied it to western red ceder it darkened the timber way too much for my liking, I haven't tried it on pine or anything else as yet.

I've spoken to Minwax and they claim they have tung oil finish which leaves a glossy surface if it's anything like minwax poly it won't leave a nice finish. Arm a seal which isn't vailable here is supposed to leave a very nice finish it's spoken o much by the woodwhisperer and others. I haven't received tru oil yet and am looking forward in giving it a go, if all these oils fail to give me the look I want I guess I will just end up going back to poly.

[section1]

Is this (http://www.carbatec.com.au/Oil-Finishing) what you mean. The result in the "tray" with the fiddle back book match?

I get that daily using the method I detailed, but using Tung Oil, HBO or Scandinavian Oil

Regards,

Rob

Sorry Rob I missed your post.

That's the look I'm getting now with what I normally use but I'm after a higher sheen than that. It needs to be some where between high sheen and gloss not semi gloss but a tad bit higher than semi gloss.

[Toymaker Len]

Maybe try a little citrus turps as thinner with the livos. Do a test and tell us all if it works. It really is a bit much the prices they charge for the made in germany thinner.

[section1]

Well I got a call this morning from the distributor and she recommends not to thin itas it will ruin the waxes in it, she also those who have thinned reverted back to the viscosity. So far with this secod coat only small significant improvement in the sheen. We'll see if the results are better tomorrow, the ingredients in Livos is 100% natural so natural they claim a baby can put a finished piece in it's mouth. I can't brush it off yet it does have a pleasing unique look to it alot nicer.

[Sturdee]

I use the Minwax Antique oil. It's a wipe on finish similar method to their Wipe on Poly. Whilst it darkens the finish slightly about three coats gives a really nice finish. The more coats the higher the gloss and after the first coat it doesn't darken the timber anymore.

It's also a lot cheaper then the Kunos oils as last year I only paid about $ 30 for a litre can from Carrolls.


Peter.

[section1]

Whose Carollis oh never mind I got it. I haven't seen antiqu oil on their website. You cannot achieve a gloss with antique oil it only give an eggshell appearance.

[section1]

I'vee spoken to Minwax this morning and they claim that the tung oil finish will leave a gloss look.

[LGS]

Carroll's Woodwork Supplies. (http://www.cws.au.com/)

Regards,

Rob

[section1]

Yeah thanks I'm looking at it now

[LGS]

Section+1,
How about this? Tung Oil and White Spirit 1:1 and burnished into the timber, let it dry for a few hours, then 4 coats of Shellac. Sand at 400 between first and second coats, 800 between 2nd and 3rd, then 2000 over the top.
Shellac was one I bought at Masters about 8 months ago and it still is easy to use and works well. Just apply with a cotton cloth, let dry for 30 minutes or thereabouts and you are finished (so to speak) in 2 hours. Hard, glossy and smooth as..! You could just use Shellac, but the Tung Oil underneath pops the grain beautifully.

Regards,

Rob

[section1]

That look you got there I'm already acheiving but that's not what after.

[section1]

I guess the closest thing to a description I could give is a finished piece on a lathe that's the look I'm after

[section1]

Well here is a sample of Livos of what it looks like I think the pictures don't justify the actual real look but it's close. I think for it's ease of use and sheen you get it's not bad it's actually pleasant but getting a shine like they say well you can see for yourself even on the third coat it's not there.

I won't brush this product off as I do like it and can see potential in it I guess it's just a matter of playing with it till I can get a particular sheen with it. It's doesn't offer much protection actually but with their floor products I believe that would or atleast should. Could I or would I solely use this product, no I wouldn't I don't like how it darkened the western red ceder but I will give it a go now on some pine and see what the results are on that. I still think it's overly expensive and 250ml or $32 won't get you very far even though they claim you can do x number of square metres with it.

I don't know I'm mixed emotions with it, I know it's not the look I'm after but still it's nice. Maybe I'm asking too much just maybe it's not possible to acieve the effect I want, wood turners are lucky they can achieve any effect they want with minimal fuss and within minutes.

I don't know you be the judge on this one.

[section1]

Right now I'm experimenting with a tip I got from the US last night, I applied some sanding sealer and this morning I steel wooled and rubbed a coat of livos. Now I know this has bucklies chance of penetrating the timber but I want to see the film it will be create and whether or not it can be buffed to a high sheen. Right now it has a glossy appearance and that's mainly due to the sanding sealer, I was told that this particular chap only applies sanding sealer to his cabinets and nothing else, pretty much unconvential but why not I thought I'd give it a go.

So far the livos hasn't doesn't darkened the stain on the pine but I think it's due to the pine being a closed grain that not much of it is actually penetrating unlike the ceder being so thirsty. I will keep you up to date with my progress

[LGS]

Well, I guess I misunderstood you. That look you have on Western Red Cedar is as close to a satin sheen that I've seen. There's no gloss visible at all. When you talk about gloss, I assume you mean being able to see reflection in the finish. I don't see it there. I also wouldn't be trying to get a high gloss on Red Cedar. It's too porous and open grained. But if that's that you're after, then good on you for persisting.:2tsup:

Regards,

Rob

[section1]

It's nice but its not what I'm after and I'm really starting to believe that's it's not possible to achieve it by hand other than a lathe but I'm not giving up on it yet.

Here is the latest update I know it's quick as I'm writing I'm also working. The sanding sealer has done it's job I reckon I should of sanded it down properly rather than using the steel wool. The look it has I believe is Livos's maximum look you could achieve with it. This is only a first coat and I believe the sanding sealer has given the effect as if 5 or 6 coats of livos has been applied. I think this livos's maximum potential if applied raw.

I'll take a picture of it and post it in a few minutes.

Not a bad shortcut though I managed to get multiple coats in just one coat which would normally take a week to achieve. But sanidng the sealer down and leveling it prroperly would most probably give a very nice look.

[section1]

You can see the dramatic difference between the two I don't think the sanding sealer would work well on pine only because it is closed grain and the sealer being so thick unless you applied a very thin coat and I mean a smidgen of it or better yet diluting it down maybe 50/50 or even 60/40. But none the less it's proven to be a good tip with my addition of livos to it and definitely a time saver. The only downside to this is it's no longer food safe unless you have a fetish for sanding sealers. I now believe that it is possible to to get a glossy look using this method with Danish oil and the organ oil buffing oil I think I just may have come up with something after all. I can't wait to try and buff it and see exactly how much off a sheen I have created.

[LGS]

Sorry Section_1, but that is still just a semi gloss. You haven't shown us what the original finish you had looked like. If this is an improvement in gloss...
Whose Danish Oil are you using? have you tried hard burnishing the Organoil Hard Burnishing Oil, which is Tung Oil and Citrus Terbene? This is food safe and will give you an excellent result. Since you are talking about Organoil Buffing Oil, I assume that you haven't tried Hard Burnishing, just adding coats of oil. I've said this before,you can use Tung Oil diluted down 1:1 with White Spirit or as someone else correctly pointed out, Citrus Terbene. This is also food safe and radiant heat and liquid resistant. The total time for preparation and oiling takes about 2 hours and then you are finished AND you get a gloss finish. In fact if you use different mixes of sandpaper, you can vary the exact gloss of the finish.
Try it it might just work!

Regards,

Rob

[LGS]

At the end of the day, if you like it and it 's what you wanted to achieve, that's all that matters. Glad you got there in the end.

Regards,

Rob

[section1]

I suppose your right ok I will try and find pure tung oil not sure who sells it but I'm sure I must of mentioned in my earlier posts about the buffing oil. Unfortunately for me the buffing on pine turned out to be a super high gloss which looked plastic it just wouldn't suit my projects.

Yes that look is semi gloss but to achieve that look would take subsequent coats over several days but I achieved in just one day nad only one hour it's dry I think that is an accomplishment in itself. I should of taken a photo of it with just the sealer but I didn't think, the oil only slightly modified it appearance.

[section1]

I searched for your earlier post and saved it on my computer I will try it and see what I come up with, but where do I find these products besides shellac

[LGS]

You can buy pure Tung Oil from Organoil, but it's expensive. I buy Sceney's (http://www.sceneys.com.au/default/timber-finishes) Pure Tung Oil for $20.00/litre at my local Mitre 10 Hardware. Both perform well. They also sell a Citrus Solvent, which is most likely Terbene. (A litre of Tung Oil will last you quite a while I would think.)
One other thing you might want to take into consideration while you are comparing finishes, is what the grain resolution looks like. Tung Oil gives beautiful resolution of colour and grain. Much better IMHO than Danish Oil of any ilk.
Good luck.

Regards,

Rob

[section1]

ok Rob I appreciate your support I will go first thing Tuesday as Monday is a public holiday but one thing they say Pure tung oil never dries is the shellac that will seal it in. What if Mixed soe dewaxed shellac to act like a like varnish

[section1]

Or should I mix Boiled linseed oil so it dries quicker

[LGS]

If you follow the burnishing method to apply the Tung Oil and Terbene or White Spirit mix, the Tung Oil will be near dry at the end of the procedure. If you like, give it 12 hours or less if you want (maybe 8 hours) and then apply the Shellac. Don't mix them as the oil is immiscible with the Shellac. Four coats of Shellac sanded between each coat with 400 or higher, will give you the result. But before you use the Shellac, have a look at the finish you get with the burnished Tung Oil. I think you might find you don't need the Shellac. (Though on Western Red Cedar, I think you might.)

Regards,

Rob

[section1]

Alright will do just I don't want a complete burnished surface but I'm sure this will work out.

[LGS]

When you wet sand up through the grits, stop and look at the result you have for 800g, 1200g and 1500g. You can decide where you want to stop the burnishing. I would suggest at least 1500, but the result you want may be at 1200 or even 800g. It's just a question of watching the result as you go along.

Regards,

Rob

[section1]

The thing is I still would like some level of protection I was thinking about buying some varnish and mixing in with it. In Livos they have boiled linsed oil mixed with beeswax. What would you recommend as protection.

[LGS]

Burnishing the oil will give you excellent protection against radiant heat and liquids, both cold and hot. You can wipe down the finished item with Spray and Wipe! Have a look at this thread (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f9/cabots-danish-oil-formula-change-166948/), particularly the posts where I have compared the properties of several oils in protective finishing. It's not necessary to add anything except the Terbene or White Spirit.

Regards,

Rob

[section1]

Thanks Rob I have read most of the posts that you linked and I have tried Organoil Burnishing Oil on a sample before, now I only sanded it up to 2000grit cause that's all I can get my hands on and I did it on hoop pine and being closed grain I really didn't even need to go that high. Sure enough the surface was very glossy but also very plastic looking as well, the part that bothered and damned if I can remember whether I put a coat of EEE or just the minwax paster wax but after applying and buffing it out I ran my finger nail very light along the wood and it scrached it. I couldn't even buff it out.

[LGS]

There are a couple of points here.

1. EEE cream is not a finish, it is a cutting agent. It will act like very fine sandpaper and thus enhance the fineness and shine of wood. So you have actually done the equivalent of sanding to 4000 or higher.

2. The wax would need time to harden and so by running your nail over the fresh surface, even lightly, you have taken the wax layer off the surface. Only rewaxing would even the surface out again. Buffing wouldn't help.

3. There is no need to put anything on top of, mix in with or apply before the burnished oil. You should have seen the tests I did on the oil regarding heat and liquid in that thread I linked to in the last message. The oil is unaffected by these issues.

4. It doesn't matter what finish you put on a surface, if you scratch it, it will mark. At least with a penetrating oil, like Tung Oil or Hard Burnishing Oil, the scratches can be treated by wiping the surface with more oil.

Keep the operation simple and you will succeed!

Regards,

Rob

[section1]

Thanks Rob for all your help mate I'm really looking forward in getting that tung oil also I have heaps or burnishing oil and will try it again but this time not going so high in grits not with pine anyway

[section1]

The only place that sells it here is Bristols in 5 litre cans, I spoke to Greg at Sceney's and he said it takes 2 days to dry but it is touch dry with an hour or so. He also said that the Citrus solvent is not Terebine so it's not a drying agent but being in Qld and it is getting hot here I wouldn't need it. Lastly he mentioned to apply very thin coats as if your doing french polishing, thick coats will make the tung oil become tacky he also mentioned the more coats I put on the glossier the surfface will become.

Since you've used this successfully how much do you put on. Oh almost forgot he said to use on softwood 75% oil and 25% citrus and hardwoods 50/50. I'm going now to buy it this will set me back $110 but if I get the results I'm after it's worth it.

[LGS]

You can buy the Tung Oil for $35/l approx at Carbatec. The Terebine as well. And don't forget that you can use White Spirit intead of the terebine.

If you do not intend Burnishing the oil, then do as the guy from Sceney's said. Most people do not understand the benefits that can be achieved by burnishing. It is this process that imparts many of the properties of the finish

Without burnishing, the oil will take two days to dry, but after burnishing, only a few hours is necessary to get sufficient curing to give you a hard, beautiful finish.

Regards,

Rob

[section1]

Ok I placed an order for the oil and citrus as 5 litres I felt was a bit much. I will use citrus instead of white spirit because he said that white spirit smells and tends to linger around a while is this ok. He said due to the warmer weather in Qld I won't need terbetine but you said that white spirit acts as a terbertine as well as a thinner. I'm more inclined to follow your advice since you're method has given you good results. So will this citris solvent act as a drying agent as well as a thinner.

He told me to only put one very light coat and wipe off any excess after 30 mins but having experience with danish oil I know that one light coat will not leave any excess oil to wipe off so please explain in detail exactly how you apply this and I will follow your instructions to the letter and of course I'm going to burnish it so please one more time as if your doing it now.

[section1]

I received tru oil today and I couldn't wait to give it a go, the results are fantastic. The application is simple and instant the look you get can be as glossy as you want everything is applied by rag or paper towel not sure which of the two is better but I will find out. After 24 hrs of drying of the first coat you can apply every two hrs there after.

Now having said all that I also do like the sheen you can create with Livos and I'm very much looking forward in experimenting with the pure tung oil using Rob's burnishing technique. After spending hundreds of dollars on various products I'm finally settling on something that works for me. What's amazing though in the end watco danish oil, organoil danish, rustins danish, liberon etc all are good and the differences between them are suttle with the exception of Livos. Livos really creates a unique look that I haven't seen in other oils and it must have something to do with the wax content.

I now know that oils like the Minwax Finishing oil has a higher content of poly in it and since I'm on the subject of poly the minwax wipe on poly cannot compare to their other product the fast drying poly semi gloss. When diluted with metho the finish is far superior to it's wipe on brother.

Anyway I wanted to mention all of that because I'm over the mooon with joy that I'm almost complete with all these experiments and I'm finally settling down to a few products I can stick with.

Rob I'm looking forward in getting your response to what I asked you earlier. This will be my final lesson.

:no: The smiley is not in agreeance lets hope he's wrong.

[LGS]

If you can bear with me until tomorrow PM, I'll post the method with photos at the different stages, so you know what to expect.

Regards,

Rob

[section1]

Sure I can they said it will take a week from today before it arrives from Melbourne. I truly appreciate mate.

[LGS]

OK...
I have used two samples for this demonstration.
a. a Fiddle back Red Gum strip and
b. a Birds-eye Huon Pine block. Fig.1 and 2

1. Sand the raw timber starting at 100g and going through 120,150,180,240 grits then finishing at 400 grit. See Fig.3 and 4 (Note that Pic 1 and Pic 4 are out of order. They should be reversed)
2. Give the work piece a rub down with a tack cloth or a cloth and Mineral turps. (Just wet the rag, don't drown the timber.)
3. Once the piece is dry, mop your 50/50 mix of Oil and White Spirit onto the surface of the wood. You will be looking for a glistening coat, which does not disappear immediately into the wood. See Fig.5 and 6
4. Allow the oil/spirit mix to sit on the timber for 20 -30 minutes.30 minutes is probably best. See Fig.7
5. After the incubation period is over, begin wet sanding. Start with the 400 grit pad you have just dry sanded with. You will get adequate (ideal) sanding by running up and back along the section of surface you are working on 5 times each way. A total of 10 passes.
6. You will notice a slurry form as you sand. This is oil and saw dust. the friction caused by sanding wet generates enough heat to polymerise the Tung Oil. Your incubation time was what allowed the oil to penetrate the wood. (Fig.8 and 9) shows what the slurry should look like. Note that it is not a great gluggy mess but a thinner, easily moved slurry.)
7. Continue up through the grits 800, 1200, 1500 and 2000. If you can get 4000, I would use this too. You will notice that the slurry gradually disappears until at 2000g it is essentially gone.
8. Now vigorously wipe the surface down with a dry cotton cloth.
9. You are finished.
Figs.10, 11 and 12. show the finished boards, looking down on them and along the surface. Note how subtle variations in the grain are now clearly visible.

Adding Wax to the surface (if you wish). Note that the burnishing renders the wood resistant to radiant heat and hot and cold liquids, waxing may affect these properties.

I used UBeaut EEE cream first then UBeaut Traditional Wax after. This was done within 10 minutes of finishing the burnishing.
Fig.13 and 14 show the boards with Wax at the right hand side of the pencil line.

So you get a brilliant finish, with high grain resolution, which is dry pretty much immediately after you finish. Any questions, please PM me.

Regards,

Rob

[section1]

That looks excellent Rob and thank you for going out of your way to teach me, I noticed you only used one coat. Great work again mate I've copied your instructions down so I'll always have it on hand. JUst one thing you used mineral turps to cean the timber I've always used metho is there a reason why you chose turps over metho

[LGS]

Sorry, I should have said that I add another lot of oil just before sanding, But only enough to make the surface shiny again.

The Turps is just a personal thing. Metho will, of course, dry much faster.


Regards,

Rob

[Timless Timber]

Glad that the True Oil is working for you.

Remember that you can apply true wax afterwards also. :)

I like True Oil coz its easy and gives a durable surface. The old Anschutz 22Hornet stock I re-finished, I used it out in the feld a fair bit and it got rained on occasionally etc.

The true oil worked for me and 30 years later the Anschutz still looks good - but admittedly these days she's become a bit of a safe queen. My eldest bloke is keen to break it out and get started with her tho...maybe it will serve him as well as it did me.

[section1]

Ok well thanks again Rob I'm really looking forward in getting started with this.

Timeless timber I never knew tru oil was so old it really is a remarkable product and you don't need alot of it to do the job, I've seen some youtube stuff on it and some really flood the surface with it but I think it's just a waste.