'Opening window' above internal doors (Edwardian house)

[microcorys]

I don't know what you would call these windows, but they were operated by a rod system attached to the door architrave. I think the idea was to allow air circulation with the doors closed while the coke fire was burning in the open hearth.
My problem is sourcing replacements at a reasonable price. When the house was 'modernised' these windows were nailed shut, painted and the hardware removed. We have been quoted $100 each for original and $175 each for reproductions.
Does anyone have a cheaper source/supplier or will I simply have to wear the cost?

Cheers, Micro

[markharrison]

I believe that these are called fanlight windows. I have only ever seen a catch with a cord attached. Is there something else you have in mind.

I found one at this URL: http://www.decorativehardwaredirect.com/scripts/ProdView.asp?idProduct=38387

but I'm sure that there are more around.

I would look overseas if you can't find what you want here. It isn't actually surprising that you can't find what you want given that we are such a small market.

I can't check at the moment but Hafele may also have these locally.

[microcorys]

Thanks for the name and the url, Mark.

Yes. the catch is exactly what we are looking for, but in this period house it was operated by an articulated rod apparently, rather than a cord, but maybe I should try the US. As you say we are only a small market and most of this stuff is probably in landfill sites.

Cheers, Micro

[craigb]

I know exactly what you mean. Yes as has been said they are fanlight windows (called that I believe because they were originally "fan" shaped)

Anyway, where I used to source this stuff from a few years ago was Chipendale Restorations in Balmain.
However I think they are no more, which is of course no use to you.

I guess all I can suggest is to try trawling through the demolition resellers.

I supose that $100 sounds like quite a lot but how many do you need to buy?

[bitingmidge]

My golly goodness gracious me!!!

Some of you should know better than just to jump in and respond! If you'd shouted DO A SEARCH for fanlight, you would have come up with this thread!!

Window Stays (for fanlights) (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=8958&highlight=fanlight)

Cheers,

P
:D :D :D

[journeyman Mick]

Strictly speaking, it's only a fanlight if it's semi circular or has an arched top. Otherwise it's a transom window.

Mick the pedantic ;)

[bitingmidge]

Mick,

As one pedant to another, the current Macquarie definition is "a fan shaped or other window above a door or opening"

...but I'll still let you into the finals!

BTW the ancient Funk and Wagnell doesn't have Fanlight, but it does have Fanny, which is a diminutive of Frances.

Cheers,

P
:D :D :D

[journeyman Mick]

Getting really pedantic here, the Macquarrie may be right, but it's being imprecise. Language and communication is fraught with difficulties and misunderstandings and to prevent this as much as possible we should strive for accuracy. Using one term to cover both types of windows is correct but ambiguous.

So there! :p

Mick

[bitingmidge]

Using one term to cover both types of windows is correct but ambiguous.

Welcome to the clash of the pedants!!!

Ambiguity is the soul of the English language, part of it's deeply rooted tradition, and pricks the senses.

Of course if I told you I disagreed with you by calling you a p****k and telling you to get r****d it would have been edited by Shane to read "get r****d you p*****", but having pricked senses deeply rooted in tradition I suspect is alright, hopefully highlighting (as opposed to fanlighting) just one of the joys of the language! :D.

Just to "highlight" the accuracy of the term when used with rectangular openings:

I haven't gone looking into my really old texts yet, but my copy of Australian Methods of Building Construction (1945) by W. Watson Sharp has a very clear drawing and it sure isn't an arched window!

The "Fanlight" paragraph reads:
Fanlights have almost completely disappeared from residential buildings, but in commercial work they are still widely used. Their function is to ensure cross ventilation when the door is closed and to assist in lighting corridors and passages. The fanlight is fitted between the head of the door frame and the transom and is made in the same manner as the window sash. It may be hung at the top or the bottom or pivotted.

My Pitman's Building Educator (issue #16 14th May 1927) has an almost identical definition and a similar illustration, so it looks like poor old Watson Brown was the Helen Demidenko of Construction Education. :eek: :eek:

BTW, if either of us was really pedantic, why don't either of us refer to a sliding window as a "Yorkshire Light" ?

Cheers,

P (Ducking!)
:D :D :D

Not Shane but MOI!!! :D :D

[Bob Willson]

BTW, if either of us was really pedantic, why don't either of us refer to a sliding window as a "Yorkshire Light" ?

Beaxuse we would be constantly confused with "The King's own Yorkshire Light Infantry" and we would imagine them sliding through our windows while we were trying to sleep.

[Ashore]

The Flannel Flower Press put out a book called How to Restore The Old Aussie House by Ian Stapleton"Sometimes a sash called a fanlight is formed above the door. The piece seperating the doorway and fanlight opening is called the transom." Obviosly called fanlight because of the shape.
1800 to 1900 late victorian period the fanlight sash was introduced inside the house as a result of the use of gaslight.These were bottom hung (hinged ), centrally pivoted or fixed.
I have found the book invaluable in dating houses for restoring to original he gives a lot of detail on mouldings and construction techniques originally used.
locks used tiles etc with heaps of exploded drawings to scale actual profiles and pictures of restored stuff...but he gives no details on opening apparatus for fanlights sorry not much help just a little insight as to what they are.
The book is handy if your restoring and want to get it correct for the whole house.



The trouble with life is there's no background music.

[bitingmidge]

Beaxuse we would be constantly confused

"Beaxuse" as in "beaxuse moi"?

I'd be thinking Gumby might be interested in that one for his honour board!
;)

Cheers,

P :D :D

[Bob Willson]

Yes, well that happens because I am constantly confused. CHARGE The Yorkshire Light.

Sorry about; old war wound don'cha know.

[seriph1]

but ANYWAY!!!!!!!! Schots at 400 Hoddle Street Clifton Hill in Melbourne has Fanlight/transom mechanisms. Can't recall the price but their service is ****house) .... they will at least be able to tell you if they have them in stock and how much...... they do mail order all the time ..... understandable really, as going in to the place is no faster than getting your order mailed.
:D:D:D:D:D:D

can you tell I am a fan? ..... a little "light" humour there

oboy

[markharrison]

Some dictionaries do define a fanlight window as, indeed, a fan shaped window above a door. However there is a broader definition as noted above. My information comes from an old joiner I've had here to do some work for me and I tagged along as apprentice.

My house has "fanlight" windows above the awning windows (sashes) which are above some fixed panes. The intervening bars are called transoms.

The fanlights in my windows are fixed panes. As opposed to the royal pains that the windows in general were to repair :-\

[julianx]

Fanlight 1. A window, often semi-circular, over a door, in Georgian and Regency buildings, with radiating glazing bars suggesting a fan. 2. Also, less commonly, the upper part of a window hinged to open seperately.

penguin dictionary of architecture

[journeyman Mick]

Fan Light [joi.] A light over a door, originally semicircular, now of any shape within the main door frame.

A Dictionary of Building
John S. Scott

Penguin Books 1964

:p

So I'm being pedantic. ;)

Alright, current usage is a broader meaning, but I'm all for more precision in language, at least when dealing with a technical subject. I like the way the Germans make up their technical terms, their term for a fanlight would be something along the lines of " top hinged light of rectangular shape hinged to transom above door" (just guessing here, but they do use descriptive phrases for technical terms)

Mick

[seriph1]

this is an important and educative process...... after all, I thought a fanlight was someone who hung around with a rock band, though only casually.

[journeyman Mick]

this is an important and educative process...... after all, I thought a fanlight was someone who hung around with a rock band, though only casually.

No, that's a fan (lite) :D

Mick

[bitingmidge]

Then what's this? :D :D :D
(in the interests of clear concise language of course!!)

P
:D

[journeyman Mick]

Why, that's an (exhaust) fan light of course! ;)

Mick

[bitingmidge]

OK, well this?

(From a Pommie Catalogue - 375 quid! Any wonder it doesn't get hot there... they can't afford it to! :eek: :eek: )

[julianx]

whats this

[bitingmidge]

whats this

Tasteless!!!

:D :D :D

P

[journeyman Mick]

They're both ceiling fans (+ lights) ;) :p , both cheapies by the way. When I worked on the Green Island Resort each of the 48 (air conditioned) units was fitted with a $1500 ceiling fan.

Mick

[womble]

They're both ceiling fans (+ lights) ;) :p , both cheapies by the way. When I worked on the Green Island Resort each of the 48 (air conditioned) units was fitted with a $1500 ceiling fan.

Mick
1500...:eek:

for 1500 I'd want it to do a lot more than spin around and around and around....

geeezzus...think I'll stick with the 50 buck specials from woolies ;)

[magnet 12]

Our house had fixed windows. Chippendale restorations are now in Rozelle and supplied 2nd hand rods ( they also have new) and I made up the opening windows. Yes they are bottom hinged and they have a working model on their ground floor. Easy to instal.

[John99]

Amazing Thread, I am speechless !

[John99]

"Fanlight" and I thought it was the light in my ceiling fan ? doh!

[Bob Willson]

I am speechless !

Shurrup!