Containers for French Polish etc

[margen]

I'm new to this forum, and to wood finishing and enjoying reading all the useful information helpful generous folks out there are writing. Thankyou

To introduce myself - I am attempting to teach myself french polishing (or some approximation of it) using instructions in books and online. I told my 12yo daughter that I was trying it out on non precious items and that I expected I would learn from my mistakes - she dryly commented that I must be learning a lot then! I am a comedy of finishing errors: My rubber/pad keeps coming apart, my gloves get caught in the surface, the polish dries faster or slower than I need, I didn't read the bit about using an oil to lubricate with, I used oil and forgot to wipe it off between coats, I miss runs, I end up with a good result in the middle, but the edges are still a mess, I left one piece outside to dry and got a few rain drops on it that marked the finish......all part of the learning process and part of the fun. If I could see someone doing it in person I'm sure I would learn faster, but don't know where to find one. The evening college and TAFE don't have anything available.

My question is about the containers that are safe to use for holding polishes and solvents. I have used recycled glass jars assuming that once well washed they won't react with anything in the polish or methylated spirits (or the thinned polyurethane and turps for other projects). They also aren't going to dissolve on me and leak.

Some instructions tell me to apply french polish to the back or inside of the pad using a squeeze bottle, which obviously can't be glass....and I'm eyeing the squeezy bottle my honey comes in......

Are there any things I should avoid when using recycled storage items - in terms of contaminating the material I want to store, or in terms of things that will be damaged by the contents.

Assuming I clean them well and label them properly can I recycle jars, tins and plastic containers from my kitchen?

Thanks in advance. Megan

[fineboxes]

I colour code mine;
Jim Beam Bottles for Orange Shellac
Frigate Rum for Buttonlac
Teachers Scotch for Blond Shellac.

Works really well and it's fun getting new containers when needed:roll:


Cheers

Steve

[jimbur]

I use bottles such as the ones used for vinegar or soy sauce for the polish, wider topped glass jars for the used rubbers. Sealable one of course.
A few tips.
If you have oil to wipe off you may be using too much. A smear is all you should see. remove that by all means. A touch on a fingertip to the rubber should be all you need.
If you have runs it's too wet. The idea is very thin layers which dry quickly. Don't worry if you seem to have missed a bit. resist the temptation to just put a layer on that bit alone. It will sort out eventually.
I was taught to concentrate on the edges because when you have got those right you'll find the middle has looked after itself. Starting at the edges and leaving them tends to cause most trouble with beginners.
You use less pressure when the rubber is moist and more as it is worked out. Rather like a toothpaste tube as you work to the end.
Try and have a few jobs going at the same time. It helps avoid the temptation of putting, "just one more layer on".
When it finally comes together there is no finish like it (which is heresy to some people I know)

[jimbur]

I colour code mine;
Jim Beam Bottles for Orange Shellac
Frigate Rum for Buttonlac
Teachers Scotch for Blond Shellac.
Works really well and it's fun getting new containers when needed:roll:
Never trust a french polisher with stains around his mouth.:D

[margen]

Thanks Jim


If you have oil to wipe off you may be using too much. A smear is all you should see. remove that by all means. A touch on a fingertip to the rubber should be all you need.


I suspected that I might be using too much oil, as everything I read describes it as a few drops, but when I started to use it things became so much easier that I probably went overboard. Without it the rubber starts to stick too easily and make track marks instead of making a smooth surface. Could this be because the polish is too thick? Not dry enough? Too dry?

If you have runs it's too wet. The idea is very thin layers which dry quickly. Don't worry if you seem to have missed a bit. resist the temptation to just put a layer on that bit alone. It will sort out eventually.
......
Try and have a few jobs going at the same time. It helps avoid the temptation of putting, "just one more layer on".


I have definitely been guilty of not leaving well enough alone. And trying to speed things up by adding another coat too soon. And attempting to fit in another layer at twilight in poor light so I can let it dry overnight..... All resulting in going backwards.

I was always told French Polishing is really hard, almost impossible to get a good result unless you do everything perfectly - but it seems I need to let let the small imperfections go, and trust that it will sort out eventually, rather than meddle and cause MAJOR imperfections..... And be more patient.

As for having a few projects on the go.....is it a bad sign of obsession when you start roaming the house looking for things to refinish so you can practice on them?



I was taught to concentrate on the edges because when you have got those right you'll find the middle has looked after itself. Starting at the edges and leaving them tends to cause most trouble with beginners.
You use less pressure when the rubber is moist and more as it is worked out. Rather like a toothpaste tube as you work to the end.

Thats exactly the kind of tip I need! Will attack the edges first next time.

Thanks Heaps
Megan

[jimbur]

You do it all in one go but concentrate on getting the edges right. It's starting and leaving the work that seems to cause most trouble and that's usually at the edges. A bit like using too much pressure on a paint brush when beginning the stroke and finishing off so that you slip over the edge and leave it messy.
The most work in French Polishing is before you even touch a rubber. It's hard to get a thin even layer if you don't have a really good finish on the wood. The best french polishing shows off the wood rather than hiding its imperfections.
Get all the dust off after sanding, a tack cloth is handy for that.
It is worth remembering that some of the best french polishing was done in less than ideal conditions. Imagine London in the winter - no wonder some polishers turned to drinking it instead.

[ubeaut]

Storage containers:

Zip lock plastic bags.... Great for storing a rubber in for short periods of time - up to a couple of months
Glas jars.... Ideal for storing shellac and rubber best if they have an air tight lid.
PET bottles are good for shellac... Coke and most soft drink bottles are now PET We package and sell our shellac in PET bottles with flip top lids especially for french polishers.
Glass bottles.... like Worcestershire Sauce type bottles or any bottle with a drip type hole on the opening make good shellac dispensers.
Cling wrap.... Great for wrapping around the bristles of a brush to stop it drying out (good for a day or so)
TIN CANS.... Should NEVER be used to store shellac. Flake or powder shellac (yes there is a powdered shellac) will be degraded if kept in tin. Mixed shellac (liquid shellac) will go black if stored in tin. Even a few minute bits of metal from steel wool will darken and degrade shellac.


Couple of quick tips:
All shellac will settle out and separate when left to stand for even a short time, so always shake or stir shellac before use to get the best use out of it.

Shellac has a shelf life and unless it is top notch shellac mixed with 100% Industrial Methylated Spirits (100%IMS) it could have a shelf life of as little as a few months.

If your flakes do not mix down completely within a couple of hours of adding the alcohol then the flakes are no good or the alcohol is rubbish and contains too much water.

Buy 100%IMS or 95%IMS for your shellac. If it doesn't say Industrial Methylated Spirits on the bottle or tin then it's a fair bet it will have too much water in it to use with good shellac.

If buying shellac in a premixed form make sure the bottle has a best by date on it, get the bottle with the longest best by date or go elsewhere.

Just because a shop has shellac in dry or premixed form on the shelf doesn't mean it will be good quality as it may have been on the shelf or a year or more or stored in adverse conditions (too much bright light, too hot).

If buying white shellac buy it in liquid form with a best by date on the bottle. If you buy it in powdered form it may well be all but useless as it has a very short shelf life if not stored at a constant 4°C -8°C. A couple of hot days on the shelf could see it ruined.


Hope this is of some help and hasn't completely turned the brain to moosh.

Cheers - Neil :)


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Shellac flakes in pet jar
ready for mixing with 1 it IMShttp://www.ubeaut.com.au/shellac_flakes2.jpg (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/flakes.html#sf1)

Pics stolen from U-Beaut Polishes (http://www.ubeaut.biz)


Shellac in PET Bottlehttp://www.ubeaut.com.au/new/images/DWS500A.jpg (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/dewaxed.html)

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[router]

Have you contacted Lidcombe College of Tafe? They run French Polishing courses.
:U