There are 10 kinds of people

[doug3030]

There are 10 kinds of people:

Those who understand binary notation and those who don't.

Cheers

Doug

[rod1949]

Looks like I'm one of the Don'ts

[switt775]

There are 10 kinds of people:

Those who understand binary notation and those who don't.

Cheers

Doug

That makes 10 of us...

[wolften]

...I am one...:wink:

[chrisb691]

I am also 0000 0001

[Wongo]

I am larger than infinity. Yes it is real. :cool:

[labr@]

For some years now I've taken great pleasure in telling that one to people who don't and then walking off smugly without explaining it.

It's a relatively benign way to express my evil streak.
And it makes me smirk.

[doug3030]

For some years now I've taken great pleasure in telling that one to people who don't and then walking off smugly without explaining it.

It's a relatively benign way to express my evil streak.
And it makes me smirk.

Its a bit like "there are three kinds of people - those who can count and those who cant" :D

[doug3030]

I am also 0000 0001


surely you meant to say " I am 0000 0001, 0000 0010" :D

[Godfrey]

Well then that would make 00000011 of us then lol

[wolften]

...oneupmanship

[switt775]

Amazing how quickly this thread got to 1100 posts...

[chrisb691]

Amazing how quickly this thread got to 1100 posts...

Yes, quite a few had a byte at it.

[switt775]

Yes, quite a few had a byte at it.

Yes, bit by bit, we get there.

[Sawdust Maker]

groan :doh:

[rwbuild]

another 1 o those jokes

[AlexS]

When she was little, I taught D1 to count in binary on her fingers - 1 was on the table, 0 was in the air. Any wonder she's now a software engineer?

[rod1949]

... and for me its still gone whoooosh:?

[swk]

Don't feel too bad Rod. The joke would be understood by nary a person in the world.



:rolleyes: I'll get my coat on the way out...
SWK

[doug3030]

Ok, I did not start this to make anyone feel inferior for not understanding, and I apologise to those who feel left out, time for an explanation.

Binary notation is the basis for computing and is simply numbers expressed to base 2 instead of base 10 as we use all he time.

Starting from the right hand figure the columns are counted as 1,2,4 8 16, 32 and so on. a 1 in the column counts that much and a 0 counts for nothing.

so, 1,2,3,4,5,6 in base 10 is represented in binary by 0001, 0010, 0011, 0100, 0101, 0110.

So back to the original joke:

There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary notation and those who dont.

the 10 in binary is 2 in base 10, so it is just saying using binary numbers the same as saying there are 2 kinds of people.

After the confusion this has caused, dont anyone dare start on hexadecimal.

I hope this helps. now that you know what we were going on about, go back and read the other posts again, some are quite clever.

Cheers

Doug

[Pac man]

"There are only 10 types of people in the world – those who understand ternary, those who don’t, and those who mistake it for binary.":doh:

[doug3030]

"There are only 10 types of people in the world – those who understand ternary, those who don’t, and those who mistake it for binary.":doh:

Ok I just explained binary, YOU brought up ternary, maybe YOU better explain it before all holy $h!+ breaks loose. :D :D :D

[Pac man]

Ok I just explained binary, YOU brought up ternary, maybe YOU better explain it before all holy $h!+ breaks loose. :D :D :D
I'm not sure I can.

[Wongo]

After the confusion this has caused, dont anyone dare start on hexadecimal.



Let me handle this one. They are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand hexadecimal and those who don't. :2tsup:

[doug3030]

Let me handle this one. They are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand hexadecimal and those who don't. :2tsup:

What can I say? Nice work Wongo. I knew I could rely on someone to take over where I left off. How did I just somehow know it would be you?

A really professional, well researched, thoughtful response that brings greater understanding and compassion to our little corner of the world - yeah.

Seriously. I really felt that binary notation was not so obscure as to cause a few people to react the way they did to this thread. It was great to have those who understood having their fun with their clever responses but I never intended it to exclude anyone from the fun or belittle anyone for not understanding. Unfortunately a couple of members took it that way and I feel embarrassed for putting them in that situation. That is why I made the post explaining binary notation.

Wongo, can you please explain how your post is in any way, in the context of this thread, either:

- helpful,
- relevant, or
- funny.

[switt775]

Wongo is taking us to a new level of obscurity, with a sort of mathematical mixed metaphor.

The reference to hexadecimal in his statement is a red herring. He made a statement with exactly two possible answers, so the number "10" in his statement must mean "2" in the real world. Which means that "10" is the binary expression for "2" and not a hexadecimal expression.

Hexadecimal is a sort of programmer's shorthand. I could give you a long and boring explanation of how and why it's used, but that ate up too many years of my life and I'd like to put it behind me. If you are really that interested, check Wikipedia.

Suffice it to say, if the "10" in Wongo's statement was a hexadecimal number, it would equate to 16 in base 10 (our normal way of counting). So if we read it as "There are 16 kinds of people in the world..." it isn't true, but if we read it as "There are 2 kinds of people in the world..." it makes perfect sense. In an obscure sort of way.

Taking us further along this confusing and probably pointless road:

There are 10 kinds of people in the world:

1. Those who understand Quaternary numbering and care
2. Those who understand Quaternary numbering and don't care
3. Those who don't understand Quaternary numbering and care
10. Those who don't understand Quaternary numbering and don't care.

Hands up everyone in the last group?

[doug3030]

I would actually be in group 2, unless i reply in binary then the 2 would be expressed as 10 which in quaternary still means I don't care. :?

[Sturdee]

Those who don't understand Quaternary numbering and don't care.



Now that makes sense of it all. :2tsup: :2tsup:

Peter.

[Chesand]

I am past caring!!

[Rodgera]

I hope no one tries to take a byte out of my bit, I might feel lesser for it!!

[chrisb691]

I hope no one tries to take a byte out of my bit, I might feel lesser for it!!

If they did, then you would have to have a word with them. Maybe over a nibble.

[Wongo]

It is sad that we can't be funny in the joke forum. :D

[Pac man]

It wouldn't be the first joke that wasn't understood by all and wont be the last.

[Wongo]

This is good, gooder than I thought. :rotfl:

[AlexS]

Let me handle this one. They are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand hexadecimal and those who don't. :2tsup:I thought there were sixteenty Or maybe thirtytwoty.:D

[doug3030]

Since we have all the experts in the room can someone tell me how you write 1 in base 1 notation?

[switt775]

Since we have all the experts in the room can someone tell me how you write 1 in base 1 notation?


277864

[doug3030]

277864


So if that's right, then this must be two: 277864277864 :D

[A Duke]

May be the poo of the male moo baffles grey matter.
:U

[doug3030]

So if that's right, then this must be two: 277864277864 :D


And if that's not right, then how do you write 2?

[Wongo]

Since we have all the experts in the room can someone tell me how you write 1 in base 1 notation?


Don't use infinity so lightly. :D Let's just say its undefined.

[Wongo]

And if that's not right, then how do you write 2?


Infinity plus one. :rolleyes: :D

[doug3030]

Infinity plus one. :rolleyes: :D

but if infinity plus one equals 2, then infinity plus one minus one must equal 2 minus 1.

2 minus 1 equals one

so infinity plus one minus one must also equal one

Ummm

therefore infinity equals one

infinity is definitely limited to just one if thats right.

So, how DO we write 1 in base 1 notation. dont even answer if you cant then say how we write 2, :D

[Wongo]

That is the spirit. :D

[Fuzzie]

That ones a complement then.

[Fuzzie]

... and two complement the previous one might be the answer.

[AlexS]

A mathematician named Wong
Said "Everyone thinks that I'm wrong
To say 10 - 7
Equals 11
But if you think about it, you'll see it before long."

[switt775]

but if infinity plus one equals 2, then infinity plus one minus one must equal 2 minus 1.

2 minus 1 equals one

so infinity plus one minus one must also equal one

Ummm

therefore infinity equals one

infinity is definitely limited to just one if thats right.

So, how DO we write 1 in base 1 notation. dont even answer if you cant then say how we write 2, :D


Seriously guys. The question is moot.

In base 1 notation there can be no two. There can be no quantity whatsoever. There can't even be Existence and Non existence; Beginning and End; Yes and No because they requires two states. Which requires binary notation at the very least.

I started by thinking perhaps my dog lives in a base one world, being very much a creature of the moment. But even he has to differentiate between food bowl full and food bowl empty, so he needs at least a binary world. In fact no creature which has any level of consciousness could live in a base 1 world.

So while I used infinity a bit tongue in cheek, it serves the purpose. Two cannot be represented because in base 1 world the concept of 2 can't exist. Infinity can't be conceived either, but I'm not sure if there is a more appropriate symbol.

Maybe we use "1" in a world where "0" doesn't exist. And neither does any other number.



Thinking about this a bit more waiting for the coffee machine to heat up, I realized that even "1" can't exist in a base one world, because (as I said above)

"No creature which has any level of consciousness could live in a base 1 world."

To count something you have to be aware of it. Which requires consciousness.

So there can be no "1" in a base 1 world. How's that for irony.

Off to get caffeinated. If I can work this out before morning coffee...

[tea lady]

Maybe we use "1" in a world where "0" doesn't exist. And neither does any other number.Well dah. If there is "0" of something it doesn't exist. :stirthepot:

[Wongo]

A mathematician named Wong
Said "Everyone thinks that I'm wrong
To say 10 - 7
Equals 11
But if you think about it, you'll see it before long."

10 - 7 equals 9 :;

[chrisb691]

My cat is definitely base 1, it's consciousness consists of a single state..... "it must be feeding time".

[Wongo]

The joke forum is making a comeback :brava

:D:D:D

[switt775]

I think this is a good time for the freshman philosophy class to dismiss itself, and NOT return until they have done something.

[Fuzzie]

The joke forum is making a comeback :brava

:D:D:D

Nah, the geek forum is taking a run. :C

[Gra]

I think this is a good time for the freshman philosophy class to dismiss itself, and NOT return until they have done something.

but sir if I decide to do nothing, when will I be finished?

[switt775]

but sir if I decide to do nothing, when will I be finished?

If you decide to do nothing, then you have done something (made a decision). And you are finished.

[A Duke]

If you decide to do nothing, then you have done something (made a decision). And you are finished.You forgot the QED at the end.

[Pac man]

Nah, the geek forum is taking a run. :C

Maybe it's time to request a sub forum of the joke forum for like minded individuals?
It's logical.

[Avery]

This has been my signature on this forum for afew years now.

[BEKKY]

After reading all of this I have decided that there only TWO KINDS of people, the living ones and the dead ones.
:p:q:roll:

[rwbuild]

After reading all of this I have decided that there only TWO KINDS of people, the living ones and the dead ones.
:p:q:roll:

No, there are three, have you observed some of our illustrious leaders, the walking talking dead heads
And every 1 of them knows 0 so we shall give them 10 out of 10 for knowing zerro

[Carry Pine]

All this talk about binary number systems is confusing. It's all because of this new century. I've been thinking about this century a lot,

MM


Carry Pine

[Pac man]

No, there are three, have you observed some of our illustrious leaders, the walking talking dead heads
And every 1 of them knows 0 so we shall give them 10 out of 10 for knowing zerro


Dont know whether you used "Zerro" on purpose but quite apt for this thread so far!:D

Urban dictionary definition Urban Dictionary: Zerro (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Zerro):

The ultimate infinitive. One who is in a state of mind which alters perception to achieve a new infinite reality. What is, was, always, and will never be.
"I am Zerro. What you say, do, think, and believe is what I want you to. I exist where I want to exist, and when I want to exist; Forever and ever, always and never."

[swk]

Since we have all the experts in the room can someone tell me how you write 1 in base 1 notation?

oooookay....
I'll have a stab at it.

preliminary warning, this is what I think, I ain't a mathematician and certainly not an expert, but it is a serious attempt. Stop here if you don't like serious! :-)

All the base-n systems we know use n symbols to represent numbers and are place holder related, eg:

binary (base-2) has two symbols (0&1) and the places represent 2^n ... 2^3 2^2 2^1 2^0 (ie ...8 4 2 1) so for instance binary 1001 = 1x(2^3) + 0x(2^2) + 0x(2^1) + 1x(2^0) = 8+0+0+1 = 9 (in decimal)

ternary (base-3, which was mentioned before) has three symbols (0, 1 & 2) with places representing 3^n ... 3^3 3^2 3^1 3^0 (ie ...27 9 3 1)
so for ternary eg 1021 = 1x(3^3) + 0x(3^2) + 2x(3^1) + 1x(3^0) = 27+0+3+1 = 31 (in decimal)

decimal has 10 symbols (0, 1...9)
hexadecimal has 16 symbols (0, 1...9, A, B, C, D, E & F)

SO, I think base-1 only has one symbol (1) and follows the form: 1^n ... 1^3 1^2 1^1 1^0 (ie ...1 1 1 1)

decimal 1 = 1 (base-1)
decimal 2 = 11 (base-1)
decimal 3 = 111 (base-1)
decimal 4 = 1111 (base-1)
decimal 5 = 11111 (base-1)
decimal 6 = 111111 (base-1)
decimal 7 = 1111111 (base-1) etc... you see how it goes. And no, I can't imagine how zero is represented, but it must exist in base-1 because any base-1 number subtracted from itself must equal zero.

Regards
SWK

[DaveTTC]

im guessing 10 means 2 but I am 1

[Wongo]

SO, I think base-1 only has one symbol (1) and follows the form: 1^n ... 1^3 1^2 1^1 1^0 (ie ...1 1 1 1)

decimal 1 = 1 (base-1)
decimal 2 = 11 (base-1)
decimal 3 = 111 (base-1)
decimal 4 = 1111 (base-1)
decimal 5 = 11111 (base-1)
decimal 6 = 111111 (base-1)
decimal 7 = 1111111 (base-1) etc... you see how it goes. And no, I can't imagine how zero is represented, but it must exist in base-1 because any base-1 number subtracted from itself must equal zero.

Regards
SWK

Sorry this is wrong. For a base-n system to work, you can only have number from 0 to n-1. For example base 10: 0 -9, base 2: 0-1, base 16: 0-F (which is 15). n itself automatically becomes 10.

You failed to follow these rules so there is no point to examine further.

[swk]

Sorry this is wrong. For a base-n system to work, you can only have number from 0 to n-1.

I did a bit more digging as the issue of the zero puzzled me a bit. It seems as though the base-1 system (Unary, I now know it is called!) is a system which has no zero (a bit like the roman numbering system).
So base-1 is the odd one out with the zero rule (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unary_numeral_system).

Actually a better way of saying it is there are _two_ types of base-n numbering systems for each n. One with a zero value place holder (surjective? as in Wongo's example) and one without (bijective). Except for base-1 which can only be the bijective system as only one symbol is available (hence no zero can be used).
Isn't wiki a wealth of info... :D


Regards
SWK

[Wongo]

Wow what an amazing system. 6 sticks represent 6. 7 sticks represents 7.

[Wongo]

In some cultures it is traditional to decorate a birthday cake using the unary system with candles to represent age. This exploits the unique property of the system that there is no requirement for any ordering of the symbols (that is, the age can be read from the candles regardless of how they are arranged on the cake).


Happy birthday Bob. How old are you again, 56? Wait let me get my unary handbook out. Oh 56 equals 56 candles. [sigh...] :D

[Wongo]

Thinking deeper, I suppose unary is really the most primitive way to represent quantity. As long as you don’t use numbers then I am OK with it.

[A Duke]

So what does this mean to us?

It does not matter how careless you are with your table saw, as long as you have at least one digit left there is a system to let you still count on your finger(s).
Ok so who is coming up with base 0?
:U
Regards

[swk]

Wow what an amazing system. 6 sticks represent 6. 7 sticks represents 7.

Silly as it sounds, it isn't quite as useless as you think. It's actually a big intellectual leap to understand that a stick can represent something else and a bunch of sticks can be used to "record" how many of those other things there may be.

Early shepherds before counting became so common (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yan_tan_tethera) could (for instance) carry a bag of pebbles for the number of sheep they had. Counting off pebbles as the sheep went out in the morning, or in at night made sure there were no strays.

And yes, it becomes very cumbersome very quickly, but for small quantities our earliest ancestors dealt in it was probably good enough. Then the Romans seemed to have used the "tallying" system but introduced short cuts, V for 5, X (two Vs) for 10 , L for 50 etc

Regards
SWK

[A Duke]

And the knights of old used to through a pebble in a heap on the way to battle and pick one up on the way home, what was left in the heap were how many casualties were suffered.
Regards

[tea lady]

decimal 1 = 1 (base-1)
decimal 2 = 11 (base-1)
decimal 3 = 111 (base-1)
decimal 4 = 1111 (base-1)
decimal 5 = 11111 (base-1)
decimal 6 = 111111 (base-1)
decimal 7 = 1111111 (base-1) etc... you see how it goes. And no, I can't imagine how zero is represented, but it must exist in base-1 because any base-1 number subtracted from itself must equal zero.

Regards
SWKLooks kinda like roman numerals. They didn't have a concept of zero did they?


Thinking deeper, I suppose unary is really the most primitive way to represent quantity. As long as you don’t use numbers then I am OK with it.Unary? So you on everything so its yours? :think: :D:

[Pac man]

And the knights of old used to through a pebble in a heap on the way to battle and pick one up on the way home, what was left in the heap were how many casualties were suffered.
Regards
This is also true of jokes in this forum:U

[Chesand]

Unary? So you on everything so its yours? :think: :D:

Sounds like a dog marking its territory.:D

[AlexS]

Early shepherds before counting became so common could (for instance) carry a bag of pebbles for the number of sheep they had. Counting off pebbles as the sheep went out in the morning, or in at night made sure there were no strays. Hence the terms calculate, etc., from the Latin calculus, meaning a small stone or pebble.

[labr@]

Hence the terms calculate, etc., from the Latin calculus, meaning a small stone or pebble.

I always thought my maths teacher must have had rocks in his head for trying to teach calculus to someone like me - looks like I was right :U