"I'm new here, what's a search...?"

[Rusty]

Firstly, I'd like to give a pat on the back to all those who have exercised restraint and diplomacy when answering newbie questions in the past week or so. Obviously I'm not the only one getting a bit fed up with every innocent enquiry being leapt upon and savaged. Remember the one about the only stupid question being the one that goes unasked?

Questions without searches have a value no-one has mentioned- they can expose beginners (like me) to ideas that may not be new, but new to them.
I agree that if you know a bit about both woodwork and forum etiqette then to post a straight forward question without a prior search can be time wasting and a little rude, perhaps. Still, one new members "obvious" question can be a source of enlightenment to another- you can't do a search for something if you are unaware that it exists.

Anyhow, enough of that. I was thinking today (bad habit) that a glossary of terms might be useful. (No, I haven't done a search, but I will in a moment; I don't want to have to type all this again). Basic woodwork stuff would be covered, as well as perhaps terms unique to these forums. An alphabetised list (similar to the members list) could be filled with a basic kit of words; the meanings, and additional terms to be supplied by members at their leisure. Something for those who log on at work to do on a slow day, maybe?;)

It may end up reading like Professor Branestawm's Dictionary (if we're lucky) or Roger Mellie's Profanisaurus (if we're not:eek:), but it might keep a few newbies out of harm's way...

Now, if this has all been done before, I s'pose I'll be back shortly to delete this post and pretend it never happened...

Cheers,
rusty.
(P.S. Apparently this has not been done, yet. In my search, however, I came across my first ever post, where I repeated information supplied by a previous poster; I bet I hadn't even read the whole thread, let alone done a search).

[Sir Stinkalot]

I agree .... new posts to old questions often raise a number of issues that I would never have thought of before ..... let alone done a search for.

Without new members this forum runs the risk of getting stagnent with no new ideas.

[TrevorOwen]

Hi Rusty

I, like you am relatively new to the forum and whilst some posts have expressed a degree of wroth towards those who have asked questions about a subject without carrying out a search, I think in the main the responses are mostly tongue in cheek. I love the forum, you get to "feel" the personalities of members and appreciate a form of mateship that develops across the electronic median. Some members love to give a bit but I think that that is only an expression of their own personality. No matter who it is, members have something to offer others and I find their posts stimulating, enlightening and on many occassions humourous. I very much value what I have already learnt from others and will do my best to contribute back to the forum.

As for conducting a search, it is simply a means of interrogating a database by asking a question. With this data base, I will be corrected if i'm wrong but if for example you clicked on search, then typed the word multitool your search would reveal the threads that that word was found in. I think that if you repeated the search you would find the actual post that contained the word and it would be highlighted as bold red text. I accept any corrections to my post because I have only done it a couple of times myself.

Regards from Adelaide

Trevor

[Rusty]

G'day, Trevor,
I'm not entirely sure about responses being tongue-in-cheek, but I'm prepared to concede I might have taken some too seriously. I don't think a newcomer could be expected to differentiate between black humour and bad manners.

I use the search function once in a while, and my understanding of the way it works seems to concur with yours. I wasn't sugggesting that a glosssary would replace a search of the forums; I perhaps confused things by covering two topics in the same thread.

While I'm at it though, I'd like to add that the search engine doesn't wear foil, make pancakes, or tell MIL jokes, so why would you use it?:D

Regards,
rus.

[Sturdee]

G'day, Trevor,
I'm not entirely sure about responses being tongue-in-cheek, but I'm prepared to concede I might have taken some too seriously. I don't think a newcomer could be expected to differentiate between black humour and bad manners.


Neither am I Trevor. When I tell someone to do a search it is not tongue-in-cheek , I damm well mean it. :mad: WHY ? Because the information is already on the board. Why should we do the research and then reply when the poster could do it in the first place. :mad:


Ofcourse if, after searching, there are further questions or if I have additional info then I would post it.

When a newcomer joins he is told to read the FAQs. The first item in the FAQs is the details on how to search. If they don't know what the FAQs are then let them do a search. :mad:

So the bad manners are when a newcomer fails or can't be bothered to search first before posting rather then when we point out that the info is already available.

My humble 2 cents worth.


Peter.

[DanP]

Sometimes if you search a common topic you get thousands of unrelated posts. Hence the common topics coming up time and time again. I have done it myself. IMO, let them ask. Then those who know where the answer is at can point them in the right direction. If I am bored with the subject coming up so often, I don't reply. If you are going to get on and tell someone to search, you may as well answer properly, telling them where to search.

Dan

[bitingmidge]

Now speaking as we were of suck-faced goody-two-shoes.... isn't this a perfect example of how to respond???

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showpost.php?p=145798&postcount=2

Neat, concise the merest hint of what may be found!!! For those who inhabit this board as opposed to merely dropping in from time to time, a brief search is a simple thing because some of the terms are etched in our scones.

So wouldn't it be kind and nice and sweet and gentle and ooooohhh so much like us, to at least give a few hints with the response?? Just like Squizz???

ON yer Squizzy ;) !!

Cheers,

P

[BobR]

We also need to recognise that a search does not always give us the results we are looking for. I have searched for information that I know exists - I have read it weeks or months before, without success. However, unless my keywords are the same as contained in the thread my search is unsuccessful. Therefore if I refer to a technique, tool, project, etc. with terminology common to me but not contained in the thread, then bad luck. We can suggest that a search be made without sticking it up someone. There, I feel better now :)

[outback]

Go and a have a pancake and a good lie down Bob, I think ya stressing about something we don't need to stress about. :p

[Rusty]

Look, how about the goody-two-shoes-suckhole response for poor, ignorant newbies and the wrath of Sturdee for those who obviously should know better? Taking Mick's woodworking clubhouse analogy a step further, I simply reckon that people shouldn't be yelled at the first time they ask where the dunny is. If they interrupt your conversation to ask yet again (when they're standing beside the door) then let 'em have it, if you're so inclined.

So, if I may leave that topic to it's agonised death-throes for a moment, any thoughts on the glossary idea? Good? Bad? Can't be ar$ed? Whaddaya reckon?

Rusty.

[Coldamus]

I side with Rusty and Dan on this one. Those who are too far up themselves to civilly answer a newbie's question should refrain from answering at all. Pontificating, unhelpful responses are just as wasteful of time and bandwidth.

Even frequently asked questions such as "What's a good table saw?" or "Is the HooFlungDung 350 any good?" deserve fresh responses. New products come on the market, prices change relative to other brands, faults are overcome and others are discovered. An answer that was relevant three months ago may now be totally misleading.

There's no obligation on anyone to reply to a question. If you don't want to or you are too busy, leave it to someone else who has the time, even if they are less experienced.

regards
Coldamus

He who asks is a fool for 5 minutes but he who does not ask remains a fool forever.

[CanFly]

Isn't it amazing how quickly some can lose patience with those who are at the stage they were at not so very long ago?

A polite reply to someone seeking an answer to a question isn't asking the earth of anyone.


CanFly

[Gumby]

I've said it before but I'll say it again.

1. I have no problem with 'newbies' asking a question which has been posted and answered before. (We were all newbies once) Without new members on these forums, we'll eventually die off.

2. I have no problem with the answer being a suggestion to search - it's often the best response and provides said newbie with all the relevant answers which, if they had tp be repeated, would take another day or two to be redone.
As long as the search post is like squizz's (as BM said) it can't be construed as offensive.

[BobR]

Outback, I think you are right on both counts. and the pancakes were great!:D

[outback]

Outback, I think you are right on both counts. and the pancakes were great!:D
Glad to hear it, the bill is in the mail. :D

[Christopha]

Of course, one of the advantages of newbies(?) asking old questions is that we oldies get to give them a new answer... perhaps one which is better than the original answer to the old question which is a new way of looking at the question even if the question in question is of questionable value to the oldies of the form it may be unquestionably valuable the the newbies of the forum who are, without question, most welcome not only to our forum but also to ask any question they might like....

Any questions?

[Grunt]

Christopha certainly knows how to do a query.

[Gumby]

Christopha certainly knows how to do a query.

That's 'cos he are one :D :D :D :D

[ozwinner]

Imagine how boring it would be if all newbies did a search, youd be able to hear the crickets chirping away..................................

I dont mind newbies asking questions, they might not get the answer they are looking for, but it helps welcome them the the mad house....

Al ;)

[boban]

From a newbie's perspective, I read the responses which state "do a search, this has been done to death", and find it a bit frustrating because searching is not always as easy as it sounds. Sometimes you get too many results. I could just imagine how many results there are for TSC 10HB or even tablesaw.

The best answer is the one with a link to the thread. The actual knowledge of the thread or how to bring it up is often the best possible result for a newbie. In most cases, if its what they're looking for, the thread dies a quick death. If not they'll ask the question they really want answered.

[vsquizz]

Now speaking as we were of suck-faced goody-two-shoes.... isn't this a perfect example of how to respond???

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showpost.php?p=145798&postcount=2

Neat, concise the merest hint of what may be found!!! For those who inhabit this board as opposed to merely dropping in from time to time, a brief search is a simple thing because some of the terms are etched in our scones.

So wouldn't it be kind and nice and sweet and gentle and ooooohhh so much like us, to at least give a few hints with the response?? Just like Squizz???

ON yer Squizzy ;) !!

Cheers,

P
I aim to not pis*....errr aim to not hit the do....umm Oh thats it. We aim to please:rolleyes: .

I don't actually use the search function, but needing to catergorise all the great information on this forum what I did is locate the Ubeaut website, then pay a 15 year old wizzkid to hack into it and download the threads into my own database so that....ohh...sorry :( not funny ehh?.:rolleyes:

On a more serious note if I see a question asked that has been answered before I either try and point them in the right direction or not post at all, resting secure in the knowledge that some of the excellent members of this forum will do the right thing and help out best they can.

They few times I have used the search function I have either found what I wanted straight away or haven't been able to use a parameter that brings up what I know is there. It can be difficult because the particular post you may be looking for may be way off the thread topic. (A practice called hijacking which rarely occurs:rolleyes: )

Cheers (it is Saturday night you know)

[echnidna]

How do I do a search and include all appropriate parameters to bring up the answers I need. (Including the parameters I haven't even thought of.
And then eliminate the answers that aren't relevant.

Ask questions
Give answers
And if some twit gets peed orf coz they've heard a similar question before - stiff.

[Rusty]

Man, I'm so hungover...:(...having trouble assimilating information...is it all sorted, then? Is that how you spell assimilating?

I'm going to throw up, then get back on the wagon...

Have a good one, 'cos I'm not;

Rusty, (who could have sworn he was funny, charming and attractive last night, so what's that thing in the mirror)?

[Stuart]

I side with Rusty and Dan on this one. Those who are too far up themselves to civilly answer a newbie's question should refrain from answering at all. Pontificating, unhelpful responses are just as wasteful of time and bandwidth.

I couldn't agree more. Personally, if you read a post and it is on a subject that you have either answered in the past, and can't be bothered answering again, or just feel a sudden urge to dump on someone for asking what to you is an "obvious" point, then just don't. Move on. Find a more interesting post that you can contribute something valuable (or at least entertaining) to. Some seem to have this unsated urge to post on everything just to get their post count well up.

I'm not saying that frivolous posts should be avoided - this is a community after all, and banter back and forth is part of what makes this one work well.

But crap such as :mad: icons every :mad: few lines when you are :mad: just having a go at someone not familiar with this board's culture is just f:mad: b:mad: s:mad: .

One other point I'm going to make, and again, personal opinion, on discussion boards that I've gone on as I have some question to make, or a point I want to raise, I find it insulting to have my post put down just because I'm a "newbie". Don't make the mistake of thinking just because someone hasn't been on these boards before that they are inexperienced, stupid, new to woodworking and need "sorting out" (Search for that before asking). They may be, but then they may have been on discussion boards for years longer than you have, and/or may have years more woodworking experience, and jumping on them will achieve nothing but discourage people who would have otherwise become a valuable member of this community.

And that's my 2 cents worth.

[Rusty]

I don't think it's my place to single anyone out for criticism, I prefer to concentrate on the benefits of being patient with newbies and maintaining some kind of loose protocol for answering the door of the clubhouse, as it were. Also I'm a coward who avoids confrontation...

I would hate to cramp (clamp?) anyones style in a serious way, 'cos bluntness and angry emoticons have their place, e.g. in reminding pushy American salespeople of the correct place for their posts. But, like many others it seems, my "peaceful enjoyment" of these forums is becoming spoiled by the manner of the "do a search" crowd. I trust that the salient points raised in the members posts above have helped address the issue.

Is salient right? I hate hangovers.

Now, be honest- the glossary idea sucks, doesn't it?

Rusty.

[outback]

:) :rolleyes: :cool: :p ;) :D :confused: :o :eek: :( :mad: :) :rolleyes: :cool: :p ;) :D :confused: :o :eek: :( :mad:


Now now boys, I want a good clean fight......errr no hang on.

perhaps you two should pop down the pub and sort this out over a large frosty glass of amber coloured barley derived slightly alcoholic beverage. :D This would provide an ideal opportunity to swap pancake recipes and amusing Triton anecdotes, then come back, all refreshed.


:) :rolleyes: :cool: :p ;) :D :confused: :o :eek: :( :mad: :) :rolleyes: :cool: :p ;) :D :confused: :o :eek: :( :mad:

[outback]

Now, be honest- the glossary idea sucks, doesn't it?

Like a 56 Hp dust extractor? :D

[Mr Snrub]

Can anyone suggest a good tablesaw?

[craigb]

Can anyone suggest a good tablesaw?

Yes ;) :p

[vsquizz]

Can anyone suggest a good tablesaw?
Nope, we knows nothing about tablesaws, fact is I have never really wanted to saw up a table. Try interrogating the database by activating a query using "variable height rotating & tilting arbour furniture saw with fixed and sliding reference decks". This will probably reveal nothing....:D

ON the other hand you could just do a search??:rolleyes:

If you are not familiar with searchs just hang around, somebody will give you some advice.:D

Also its possible I could post links to some threads which may or may not help you depending on how specific your question was...I'm trying not to be ambiguous here;) . I also assume you asked a question because you are seeking information about something. That in itself means you may need to put on your thermal underwear and flame proof computer cover.:rolleyes:

I really think we should have a forum called "Ask Christopha" for all these difficult matters

Anyway, Have a nice day:)

(Living on the edge today)

Cheers

[echnidna]

Mr Snrub - of course we all assume you are Al playin the fool agin

[vsquizz]

Mr Snrub - of course we all assume you are Al playin the fool agin
Mr Snrub = Mr burnS