Your final estate

[RedShirtGuy]

It's been a pretty rough fortnight with losing my last grandparent after months of battling age (just shy of 92) and the effects of numerous strokes, and a friend that was five years my younger who was taken barely two weeks after being diagnosed with ovarian cancer.

Naturally one begins to think about their own mortality and the events after. I don't (but should) have a last will and testament and some final instructions for what to do with me and my stuff. There's nobody in my family or circle of friends that would want my shed toys or even have the foggiest idea as to their value or what to do with them. I've seen a few estate items turn up in the forums with the poster not really knowing what they had. Rather than have them rust away or sold for a song, I'd like to see my gear sold off so the properly valued money could be put to use elsewhere. Besides my shed gear, I own sweet bugger all of anything else - car, clothes, computer and a few boxes of comics pretty much sums it up.

My first thoughts were to leave notes about each tool and machine pertaining to it's age, state, current value and approximate depreciation. Also some instructions about how to use these forums as the first point of call to selling the items as I would trust a lot of you (and similarly minded future members) to pipe up and say something about fair value rather than an estate auctioneer (or whoever would normally take care of such things).

Has anyone in a similar situation to me regarding assets put in place anything specific to help those left behind to move your gear on at the value that it's worth?

Would other prominent forumites offer up some time and knowledge to help the bereaved if it was known they needed a hand? (Not that I'm asking for it.)


It's not a great subject but one that each of us has, or will have to, confront at some stage and I'm all for making it easier on the poor buggers left to deal with my messes.

[Nanigai]

Hi Redshirtguy,

I gave some thought to this some time ago, in particular to creating a database of my major or valuable items in my shed.
In the end I gave it away as not worthy of my time.
It needs a database program of some sort to catalogue items and that's not my strong point by any means.

Plus no matter what you put in it will anyone really take any notice?

Seems to me a lot of people just get someone else to come and take everything away and "deal with it" which is a shame.

If I have chance to do so in a planned way i will hopefully move my stuff on before I shuffle off so I don't leave an unwanted job to grieving family. I expect they may grieve but I could be wrong:U

If it doesn't work that way it will just have to sort itself out without my help.

Keep on working wood.
Cheers, Ian

[RedShirtGuy]

Agreed, being able to sort it out myself would be nice but we don't get much control over these things. My friend only had two weeks "notice" and was in hospital for almost all of that time, which scares the living heck out of me...that's not much time to do anything let alone be in a fit enough state to organise a lifetime of everything a 33 year old would need to and probably hadn't given much thought to before.

[FenceFurniture]

If I have chance to do so in a planned way i will hopefully move my stuff on before I shuffle off ....Jeez Ian, I hope that selling me your rather nice #7 Stanley wasn't the start of that plan....:D

I don't think you need a database, just a simple Excel spreadsheet would do the job. Update it a couple of times a year, and keep it on a flash stick. Point to the flash stick and the forum in your will. Good for insurance purposes too.

Btw, I happened to have a spare Harold & Saxon HSS blade that I fitted to the #7. Noooiccce!

[Sir Stinkalot]

I think the data base option has a number of positives. It can be used to cover your goods for insurance purposes and also will provide valuable guidelines for those left behind should something happen.

My father was big into model trains. It was a hobby that I perhaps didn't share fully. In his last few days of his battle with cancer he told me the trains would be left to me, and that they had considerable value. Any parallel here with our tools?

For the past 13 years I have carted and stored boxes of model trains. Not that long ago I opened a few boxes up to see what was there. There were many basic kits along with completed trains. I was looking at the basic kits, which you seem to assemble and paint yourself, and wondered what connection these had with my memories of my father. After a considerable time I realised I had inherited my fathers hobby, one I didn't particularly share.

Looking back it would have been useful to have even a basic idea of their worth. I would have been able to go though all of the boxes, take out any of interest to me, or any that I felt had a strong connection to the memory of my father, and sell the rest.

Taking this line of thinking further it got me thinking about my tools and what I would be leaving behind. Whilst I enjoy my tools they are just a bi-product of my hobby. There is nothing of particular sentimental value in my tools, for either me or anybody I left them to. I would like to think that my family could either keep the tools, if somebody else had use for them, or alternatively could sell them off. I would like to think that if there was a data base of values available to them it would make this process a lot easier on them and if the tools could be sold at a decent price they could use the money for something useful.

[AlexS]

I think the data base option has a number of positives. It can be used to cover your goods for insurance purposes and also will provide valuable guidelines for those left behind should something happen.

Spot on. I made an Excel spreadsheet of everything in my workshop, with purchase date & price plus replacement cost. Also took photos to go with it. I did it for insurance, but also useful for those going through my leftovers.
I've always just tossed my receipts in a box, so I have some that are nearly 30 years old. Amazing how some things are cheaper now than they were then.

[Christos]

....Plus no matter what you put in it will anyone really take any notice?.....


You have to have the right title, like Million Dollars worth of Items.


As for cataloging items I think it would be worth while doing this on a spreadsheet and taking photos. And I also think it does not have to be done in one day but over time a little each day.

[RedShirtGuy]

I'm liking this spreadsheet/photos idea for the two purposes it serves. A pain in the bum to get done initially but easy to maintain after that.

And certainly the Million Dollar Items title would make sure someone at least looks at it :U

[issatree]

Hi All,
This is a rather interesting Subject, & there is another aspect you could all look at.

As it is up to you, you can leave part or the whole of your Body to Science, & even at my age they can still pass on some of your parts to help someone that could make their life last quite a bit longer.

As for My Tools, that is going to be another Quandary, as I was going to make up 5 Sets of Tools for the Males in the Family.
" Don't bother, just sell them all up ", Yeh, like in a Pigs Whistle ???.

How could one Possibly sell ones Tools.
Well I Can't, That's for sure.\
So now they will have more Probs when I'm gone, than they wood have, had I made up all the Sets of Tools for them.
Hope somebody, doesn't get to see this.

[Nanigai]

Jeez Ian, I hope that selling me your rather nice #7 Stanley wasn't the start of that plan....:D

I don't think you need a database, just a simple Excel spreadsheet would do the job. Update it a couple of times a year, and keep it on a flash stick. Point to the flash stick and the forum in your will. Good for insurance purposes too.

Btw, I happened to have a spare Harold & Saxon HSS blade that I fitted to the #7. Noooiccce!

Not a chance FF, way too soon yet.
You may not have guessed but I still have two more #7's.:U One's ordinary but my favourite is my beautiful #7C.
I am envious of the HSS blade you fitted, bet it's really sweet now!

Yeah you could be right, especially about the Insurance purposes. Does anyone really know what it would cost to replace their tools/equipment if the worst happened. Bet a few people would be really surprised, it adds up really fast.

Cheers, Ian

[Farmer Geoff]

Thanks for provoking some thought on this. Often the value of tools in the shed is a small proportion of the total estate but it is a big proportion of the emotional component. I have been impressed with a few "men's sheds" and wonder whether one could leave instructions that a particular local men's shed or woodworkers' guild, etc could be mentioned in one's will along the lines of "it is my wish that .............men's shed be contracted to manage the disposal of the entire contents of my shed and in return they shall receive 10 per cent of the proceeds of those contents". It would bring some expertise to the matter, increase the chance that items found an appreciative home, maximise the return, give a donation to the shed and/or help fund their purchase of items that may appeal to them. Hopefully we all have lots of time to ponder the topic!

[snowyskiesau]

I must admit that I've never thought of what will happen to my tools, or other possessions when I die and to be honest, I'm not that sure that I care.
Whatever the public trustee decides to do with them I guess.

[Twisted Tenon]

This is a thoughtful thread.
I've recently made a will and have not included my tools because I have a few now. I've told my son that he has first pick and I hope he keeps my fathers two planes. My brothers can take their pick. I don't really care what happens to the rest.
I've had to clean out my fathers shed some years ago then my uncles shed a couple of years back. I don't want my kids having to do that for me.

TT

[cava]

I think that it is wonderful and so thoughtful, to consider listing all of your tools and their original costs, down for the government.

It would make it so much easier for them to value, for when death duties are re-instigated.

[FenceFurniture]

Well, we've got at least 12 months George - wasn't in last night's budget.....:D

[SAISAY]

We have left instructions that all our tools go to the local woodworking guild and, what they don't want goes to the local men's shed.

[bsrlee]

Or, if you end up hating all and sundry, leave your will with a large legal firm with the instructions that all your tools are to be encased in concrete and used to build/add to an artificial reef. The Legal Eagles will do the deed and the relo's will have a hard time p155ing up the proceeds of selling all your toys. By the time they get to court to contest any will the concrete will be really set.

As you may gather, I'm not impressed with my relatives and I am much more likely to leave my gear to someone who I have a favourable regard for than any of them.

[AnselmFraser]

To add a little history to the above question I thought you may be interested to hear what would happen if you were working in London in the 18th century , London at that time was like some parts of China and India are today , in the fact of working long hours for minimal wages . When a woodworker could no longer work because of his age and health he had a retirement party on a bridge over the river Thames after much drink and food he would chuck his bag of tools into the river because he so hated his job - this was their celebration though this is thought to have been largely symbolic because we guess that the good tools would have been given to his sons and the bag possibly had rocks in the bottom and some warn out tools on the top .
What to do with your serviceable tools that you have no more use for? Well our students are eternally grateful to all the kind people who have donated their tools to our furniture school.

[doug3030]

Actually, one of my greatest fears is that if something happened to me that my girlfriend would sell all my machinery, tools and timber - for what she thinks I paid for them. :rolleyes:

Doug

[BobL]

When my son left home he left a big mess and $138 of coins amongst the knee deep rubble and food scraps in his room. It took me 2 days to clean it up.

When I leave, my instruction will be simple - he has to clean it up, not his mum or my brothers he has to do it. He can get cleaners in or whatever. I don't care what he does with it but it is his job. I intend to make and leave a much bigger mess than he left behind.

After years of absolutely no interest in this stuff we have done some projects together so there is hope yet. Last weekend he asked me if I would teach him to weld! :oo:

[doug3030]

When my son left home he left a big mess and $138 of coins amongst the knee deep rubble and food scraps in his room.

Hey at least you got paid to clean up the mess. thats more than I got :((

[ian]

It's been a pretty rough fortnight with losing my last grandparent after months of battling age (just shy of 92) and the effects of numerous strokes, and a friend that was five years my younger who was taken barely two weeks after being diagnosed with ovarian cancer.

Naturally one begins to think about their own mortality and the events after. I don't (but should) have a last will and testament and some final instructions for what to do with me and my stuff. There's nobody in my family or circle of friends that would want my shed toys or even have the foggiest idea as to their value or what to do with them. I've seen a few estate items turn up in the forums with the poster not really knowing what they had. Rather than have them rust away or sold for a song, I'd like to see my gear sold off so the properly valued money could be put to use elsewhere. Besides my shed gear, I own sweet bugger all of anything else - car, clothes, computer and a few boxes of comics pretty much sums it up.

My first thoughts were to leave notes about each tool and machine pertaining to it's age, state, current value and approximate depreciation. Also some instructions about how to use these forums as the first point of call to selling the items as I would trust a lot of you (and similarly minded future members) to pipe up and say something about fair value rather than an estate auctioneer (or whoever would normally take care of such things).

Has anyone in a similar situation to me regarding assets put in place anything specific to help those left behind to move your gear on at the value that it's worth?

Would other prominent forumites offer up some time and knowledge to help the bereaved if it was known they needed a hand? (Not that I'm asking for it.)


It's not a great subject but one that each of us has, or will have to, confront at some stage and I'm all for making it easier on the poor buggers left to deal with my messes.Hi Red Shirt Guy

STEP 1
Make a will. In it specify who you want to act as executor and how you want your estate disposed of. If you don't have a will there's a fair chance that the entire value of your estate, including any superannuation balance, less funeral expenses will go to the Government. After keeping the residual of your estate out of the clutches of the government, you might like to have a say in which friends and/or family members and/or charities should get any cash or property left behind.
Remember if you're currently employed or have ever been employed there's a fair chance that one or more of your super funds has insured your life.

STEP 2
Write a letter to accompany your will telling your executors what you'd like done with the items you particularly value and possibly giving instructions on how to realise their fair value.
This letter can be updated as required to reflect new tool acquisitions or significant disposals.
Realising fair value is the tricky bit.
In my own case I'm confident that the funeral expenses will be more than covered by my superannuation, so establishing "fair value" for the tools is mostly about ensuring the tools go to where they will be appreciated.

In your case unless you have significant cash in the bank or a super fund, your tools might need to be sold to pay your debts. "fair value" in that instance could be interpreted as a garage sale, with nothing over $50

[FenceFurniture]

When my son left home he left a big mess and $138 of coins amongst the knee deep rubble and food scraps in his room. It took me 2 days to clean it up.
Does he get the bag of coins?

[BobL]

Does he get the bag of coins?

He gets a lot more - whatever he finds in my shed that does not belong to SWMBO will be his to do with what he likes.

[Toymaker Len]

Even a simple workshop notebook with a few details of what is what would be handy.

[rsser]

The issue bugs me too despite having a will that sets up a testamentary trust. That means I can shuffle off this mortal coil and the problem is someone else's :rolleyes:

That said I'm a Dutchman (after a fashion) and would hate to be sitting in heaven watching the shed contents go for a song.

At a WWW show I spoke with a guy who set himself up to work with wood by making a widow an offer for a fine bunch of shed contents at a bargain basement price. Good for him; not so good for the estate.

My take on dealing with the problem is this: instructions are left to the trustees (or executor) to recruit one of my boys to manage the disposal process, and to hire someone knowledgeable to value the various items. The latter would be paid on an hourly rate and the son would have to get a substantial proportion of the sale revenue as clearly there's a heap of work involved.

On the other hand, maybe I'll be burning in the other place and won't give a sh*t :D

Edit: executor added

[Gra]

My old man solved the problem, by looking at me smiling and saying when I go its your problem. When I go, got no Idea, but no 1 caught is starting to show an interest. Though my kids are only young

[shedbound]

Just like to add to this thread, if may.
Sometimes our wishes have little meaning to anyone.
Here's an example of events that have unfolded over the past six months or so.
My mentor, who is the reason I like turning, became a carpenter, joined the fishing club etc etc... and long time member of the Peninsula Woodturners Guild, unexpectedly fell ill, and had to be put into a nursing home.

The entire contents of his shed were given away, against his wishes he had plans for his possesions a liftimes collection of turning tools, and his and his fathers carpentry tools, by his step daughters .

His poor soul is absolutely bleeding with what has happened, He hasn't passed and is still mentally good. This just shows whatever your intentions, it may just not happen.
P.s anyone reading this, that knows to whom I am referring and knows the whereabouts of his lathe please PM me. It would mean the world to him to recover some items, (I will personally purchase these back) It is possible that his items may have ended up at a mens shed on the Mornington Peninsula.
kind regards
Joel

[ian]

Unfortunate, but fairly typical.
but as it was explained to me, instructions only impose a moral obligation on the executors, they are not (can not be?) a binding obligation.

To ensure that your wishes are actually followed, you really need to establish a form of trust with your estate.



In terms of what should happen with your shed's contents, perhaps the best way is to donate the shed's contents, in its entirety, to a non-profit wood working organisation with instructions that the contents be disposed of to the benefit of the association. At least that way you know that other wood workers might end up valuing the tools. (If you have a shed full of Lie Nielsen planes, their value might be enough to establish a scholarship of some sort.)

I'd caution against donating to the local men's shed as in many cases, the tools would be seen as being not much more than additional junk.

[rsser]

Yes, you can add a statement of wishes to your will which has a strong moral but not legal force with your executor. Or I gather you can go to the trouble of bequeathing them to someone but the listing of them can be messy.

In the sad case that shedbound outlines, if there wasn't an correct legal power of attorney that was used, the giving away of the tools was illegal. When you draft one of these it's always worth including a clause that it applies only when you are no longer competent to make decisions as certified by your medical practitioner.

[cava]

When you draft one of these it's always worth including a clause that it applies only when you are no longer competent to make decisions as certified by your medical practitioner.
Involving a medical practioner is not necessarily a good idea. I write from experience of the last few years and currently.

My Dad has the beginnings of dementia and floats in and out at random times and also has paranoia. We noticed this two (2) years ago and discussed it with the local doctor and got a geriatrician involved. Both could not see that his problem(s) were in fact a 'problem'. My Dad is a very good cameleon when it suits him.

In that period, due to his paranoia, he changed his power of attorney giving all the power to the medical profession. These are the same people who are hamstrung by legal requirements that in many regards failed my Dad. We and others, saw person after person abuse him financially, yet could not legally help him. $1,000's have been lost.

He has given away some very valuable items and tools, and it is heartbreaking especially the personal items.

[rsser]

There are so many ugly situations that develop in these circumstances.

Not even a will is legally binding in fact. It's an expression of wishes that carries a lot of force but can be challenged in the courts.

In the case of a legal representative (an agent with PoA) who you think is not acting correctly (and the expectations of them are set out in Victoria anyway) if memory serves they can be challenged and the power assumed by the Guardianship Board (again in Vic).

Of course you don't want it to get this bad.

As an aside, everyone should check their super docs to see if they have nominated a beneficiary. Some funds accept binding nominations, others only non-binding. This can take part of your assets out of the realm of family squabbles.

As Ian said, to protect the rest it's a matter of having a trust set up. A testamentary trust can be a way of allowing benefits to flow to someone that they don't themselves control (you may feel they're not good decision makers) and that are kept safe from creditors and spouses/partners.