Market place rules. Suggestion

[murray44]

Hi there,

Big Shed pointed out that I had not conformed with Rule no. 16 when I posted an item for sale. He seemed to indicate I wasn't the first person to break the rule.

When I checked, rule no. 16 is under the buyers section, not the sellers. So I'm not surprised he's having trouble getting people to play by the rules.

Just a suggestion. :)

[Big Shed]

Well Murray44, by your own admission you didn't bother reading the rules before posting, so it doesn't really matter where we put it, does it?

The biggest problem with the Market Place Rules isn't what is, or isn't, in them, or where it is put.

The problem is that people can't be bothered reading them, as you yourself stated.:doh:

252158

[murray44]

And even if I'd read the rules I still wouldn't have got it right, would I?

Sorry, but I'll say it again, rule no. 16 is for BUYERS, not sellers.

Just trying to help you because clearly I'm not the only 'fool'

[Wongo]

FOR BUYERS

16. You want it? When an offer to buy is made, post a "I'll take it" in the thread.


So what is the issue here?

[murray44]

FOR BUYERS

16. You want it? When an offer to buy is made, post a "I'll take it" in the thread.


So what is the issue here?

The issue is, I am a Seller and I did not comply with rule no.16 in the Buyer's section!

I am not surprised by the apparent large number of Sellers who do not comply with a Buyers rule!

[Wongo]

I read your other post and I understand where you're coming from.

[Groggy]

A great deal of effort has gone into the rules over the years to keep them as short as possible (so people will read them) and simple (so they can understand them). This is balanced against having sufficient coverage so the members are not ripped off (which happens to buyers AND sellers).

People are told to read the rules - not read the buyers part of the rules, or the sellers, but read the rules - all of them.

The very first line says

1. Read these rules.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/images/smilies/smilie%20signs/rulez2.gif Also read the Guidelines to Starting a New Thread (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f221/guidelines-rules-please-read-before-posting-99018/#post979788)

which contains:

3. Price must be included, add ONO (Or Nearest Offer) if price is negotiable. If you are not not sure of a price, add a ballpark figure.Please note: these items WILL be deleted: Auctions, PM/Email me an Offer and those without a price.

There are a couple of other areas throughout the rules that clearly discourage the use of PMs except for passing personal information. The intent is pretty clear.

[murray44]

A great deal of effort has gone into the rules over the years to keep them as short as possible (so people will read them) and simple (so they can understand them). This is balanced against having sufficient coverage so the members are not ripped off (which happens to buyers AND sellers).

People are told to read the rules - not read the buyers part of the rules, or the sellers, but read the rules - all of them.

The very first line says

1. Read these rules.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/images/smilies/smilie%20signs/rulez2.gif Also read the Guidelines to Starting a New Thread (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f221/guidelines-rules-please-read-before-posting-99018/#post979788)

which contains:

3. Price must be included, add ONO (Or Nearest Offer) if price is negotiable. If you are not not sure of a price, add a ballpark figure.Please note: these items WILL be deleted: Auctions, PM/Email me an Offer and those without a price.

There are a couple of other areas throughout the rules that clearly discourage the use of PMs except for passing personal information. The intent is pretty clear.



Sorry Groggy, what's your reference to rule 3 about? I included a price.

[Groggy]

Sorry Groggy, what's your reference to rule 3 about? I included a price.Hi Murray,

The piece I refer to is just an example of discouraging the use of PMs

"Please note: these items WILL be deleted: Auctions, PM/Email me an Offer and those without a price."

There are others:


Under Sellers

Please note: these items WILL be deleted:




Auctions,
Non-approved commercial sales (see glossary below),
Private Message (PM)/Email/phone me an Offer, and
those without a price.






Rule 16 as already mentioned.

General Notes:

If you send a Private Message (PM), email or phone that you wish to buy an item to a seller there is no visible record. Instead, post a record of "I'll take it" or similar so there can be no doubt of the date or time an offer to buy was made. If an unscrupulous seller gets a number of PMs they may not accept the first one and no-one is any the wiser. Sellers should insist on only accepting offers made in the thread, not PMs.

The last one is pretty clear I think.

[Big Shed]

Greg, there's none so blind................:doh:

[Avery]

Hey Murray,

You've got a free forum with lots of interested folk to sell your stuff to.

Read the rules, understand them and do your best.

if you get pulled up on something , just say sorry and amend your post.

Guys like BigShed and Groggy are just doing their very best to keep everybody happy.
Appreciate it and give them the respect they are due.

If you want to be difficult , there is always Ebay.

[HuonPhil]

Am I missing something in this thread.

Rule 16 asks the buyer to say, 'I'll take it' as part of the thread. Presumably so that there is a trail for all to see.

It looks like a seller is being berated for not conforming with a rule for the buyer. I can't see why anyone would expect the seller to add an item to the thread saying 'I'll take it'.

In my humble opinion, of course.

[Scott]

I think Murray is being a little disingenuous here. I've read the rules, I understand them and am quite willing to be bought to account. Anymore discussion is feeding the troll.

[murray44]

Hey guys,

I'm not trying to be difficult, I simply started this post suggesting the rules weren't written as clearly as they could be. I now understand then more clearly having them explained in detail.

No need to stoop to personal insult either Scott.

[Sturdee]

Hey guys,

I'm not trying to be difficult,

Having read the whole thread I beg to differ.

I believe you are trying to be at the least pedantic and at the worst ... ( the rules prevent me from expressing my thoughts here).....

Give it up, admit that you're wrong and read the rules. Maybe the Mods should in future just delete any thread in the market place that doesn't follow the rules and be done with it.


Peter.

[murray44]

Having read the whole thread I beg to differ.

I believe you are trying to be at the least pedantic and at the worst ... ( the rules prevent me from expressing my thoughts here).....

Give it up, admit that you're wrong and read the rules. Maybe the Mods should in future just delete any thread in the market place that doesn't follow the rules and be done with it.


Peter.

Yes Peter, I was wrong, I didn't read the rules before posting. No argument there, I told Big Shed early on about that.

As Big Shed admitted "It seems very difficult to get the message across,". I was simply trying to assist by pointing out that I believe the rules could be written more clearly.

[A Duke]

The way I see it the rules are for the transaction, if the seller sells to a buyer who has not followed the rules then neither can claim the rules have been followed.
I have not seen the "offending" offer I am just giving my understanding of the rules.
Regards

[murray44]

Hugh, fyi http://www.woodworkforums.com/f221/triton-mk3-165598/

[Sturdee]

I was simply trying to assist by pointing out that I believe the rules could be written more clearly.

What could be more clearer in the rules under the sellers area :


Please note: these items WILL be deleted:

Auctions,
Non-approved commercial sales (see glossary below),
Private Message (PM)/Email/phone me an Offer, and
those without a price.

The problem arises time and time again because the Mods are too kind and lenient. If they just deleted these threads a few times, and marked deleted as per rules, then people will start to read the rules.

Peter.

[murray44]

Peter,

The Moderators are kind and lenient because that's what moderate means :)

If they deleted as per the rules, they would no longer be Moderators, they'd be 'Harshers' hehe

[Sturdee]

Peter,

The Moderators are kind and lenient because that's what moderate means :)

If they deleted as per the rules, they would no longer be Moderators, they'd be 'Harshers' hehe

But then they also would be following the rules, like they are supposed to.

And it would quickly solve this perennial problem of members not reading and following the rules. If other rules are broken we get moderated why not this one?

Peter.

[murray44]

If other rules are broken we get moderated why not this one?

Peter.

Bad for business I guess

[FenceFurniture]

Murray, it appears to me that Big Shed was quoting the Buyer's rule because you were inadvertently encouraging buyers to send you a PM rather than saying "I'll take it". In other words, if the buyers comply with rule 16 there is no need for you to say "PM me please". It seems to me that the problem lies mainly with the buyers rather than the sellers, and Fred was merely trying to short circuit any potential problems with buyers following your instruction.

Having said that, this new thread seems to be a teacup with an approaching storm. I mean, you already responded to Fred with "fair enough", so it either is or is not fair enough.

The smartest thing that I've seen a seller do (and recently) was to say "please comply with the rules by saying 'I'll take it' in the thread.

Big Shed, Groggy, and other mods: I know you guys have to spend a great deal of time patrolling the market place (and spin off threads such as this), but I just wonder if you could save yourselves work overall by quickly adding a post to each Market place thread (post #2) to say:
Buyers - please follow the rules by posting "I'll take it" if you wish to purchase the item.

I'd be surprised if there wasn't a net effort saving.

[Chesand]

Having said that, this new thread seems to be a teacup with an approaching storm. I mean, you already responded to Fred with "fair enough", so it either is or is not fair enough.



I agree and I think it is time that this thread is closed as the subject has had a fair thrashing.

[RETIRED]

This has been added to the top of the rules here: http://www.woodworkforums.com/f90/rules-posting-market-place-forums-150585/


Major Rule.
All transactions (buyers and Sellers) are to be through the board. No PM's or Emails except to get addresses.

Anyone flaunting this will have their posts deleted.

That hopefully is plain enough for all to understand.

[murray44]

Sorry Gents,

If you read my posts you'll see I've never argued with any of the mods (or anyone else) re the rules.

I have merely pointed out that I thought the rules could have been written more clearly. There are plenty of people who don't conform to the rules (as pointed out by Big Shed).

I thought, perhaps, the lack of adherence was due to the way the rules were written but I have been advised several times the rules are written quite clearly so there must be another reason.

Just my opinion, that's all.

[A Duke]

This has been added to the top of the rules here: http://www.woodworkforums.com/f90/rules-posting-market-place-forums-150585/


Major Rule.
All transactions (buyers and Sellers) are to be through the board. No PM's or Emails except to get addresses.

Anyone flaunting this will have their posts deleted.

That hopefully is plain enough for all to understand.

Only if they read it. Just look at how many inelegable entries you get in the draws because they have not read the rules in your announcement
Regards.

[murray44]

As an example, I just counted 40+ seperate links and buttons at the top of this page (I didn't even scroll down from the top)

It's really not that hard to miss a link, button or message.