My shed and backyard as it is right now

[Enfield Guy]

I have a neighbour who renovated a dump next to me a couple of years ago. He filled land and changed the levels to his advantage. This is what he has created. It has never been this high before.
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Luckily I have managed to get everything, well mostly everything, of significance up off the ground and away from the water, such as the sleigh bed I am making.

Bugger!! Tomorrow I have to go and help out a couple of people that are in a worse situation that myself. Therefor all work is postponed until the opportunity arrises to clean and dry my workspace.

The real issue for me is that the rear wall that is on boundary has 2 layers of 16mm fyrecheck gyprock. I dread having to replace it.


Cheers
Bev

[Handyjack]

I would be contacting your local council unless the event was caused by something else.

[snowyskiesau]

I'd be taking a suitable length of that carefully stacked timber and going and having a little chat with the neighbour :wink:

[Enfield Guy]

Brisbane CIty Council take the line that this is a Civil action thing and will not get involved. Talk to your solicitor is their answer. Very helpful, not.

Of course, I have an endless bucket of money to throw at a case with the potential of no return, again, NOT.

The hunk of wood option sounds practical but I am fundamentally non violent.

[Handyjack]

I am sorry to see your shed under water. The stock and possible tool losses can be difficult to bear.

It is (sometimes with difficulty) possible to recover from these events and plan for the next "Act of God". I think of you and the many others who have suffered damage by flooding (some chance of recovering items) and those who may have been burnt out and have lost the lot.

[Ilya]

That looks dreadful, all the tools in water :o. I had my shed flooded last year, but managed to have most of the metal stuff of the floor. Cannot see from your photos why the water is flooding the shed - seems like the whole backyard is under water. In my case I dug a trench around the shed and it is guiding all water around the shed - works beautifully.

[_fly_]

I think you'll find the council can make him cater for HIS water run off.
He's not allowed to let it run off to your property.
Had the same problem when a neighbour cemented his whole backyard with no drains and just let it off into my property.
He put a cover over it to roof drainage.

[chambezio]

I would take the opportunity now to make a detailed study of what the water is doing with a view to dig some drains to shift it away from your place. I would even go the the trouble of talking to neighbours around you because it could effect all of the neighbours. To go down the legal trail will only create bad feelings for those involved and cost a whole lot more than grabbing a shovel and diverting the flow away from where it can harm anyone.

Where we grew up in Sydney our block used to have to carry surface water from the blocks higher up when we had signicant rain. Dad dug 2 channels one on either side of the block to divert the water and get it on to the street.
We had a deluge one time and the neighbour opposite came over hot under the collar and told Dad his water was going down down this fellas driveway. Dad told him to come for a walk to the back of our block to see where the water had come from. Dad told him it wasn't his it was these other neighbours.
The upshot of it was the the council came and layed more material on this fellas footpath to keep the extra water on the road and stopped it from going down his drive

[Enfield Guy]

Yes, the entire back yard is a puddle. Subsided now but I will be speaking to the owner of the property, and council to see what can be done to improve the situation. I do have a couple of trenches around the shed and that helps somewhat. However, the owner is running all of the water off his roof into what amounts to an old greywater pipe that is no longer part of council infrastructure. He could have taken his stormwater to street when he renovated the place, but he took the easy (for him) option.

I shall be on the phone shortly.

Little does he know that I have a record of the levels, shot with a dumpy, of his yard prior to him changing the profiles, and a current set of levels.

Cheers

[Enfield Guy]

Rang council this morning. It seems they will be sending him a letter giving him 21 days to rectify the problem. If he does not then they take it to the next level one would assume.

Problem with that of course is that I will be in Melbourne from the 11th of Feb for about 6 weeks on a project. I have told council this and they reckon someone will ring me.

Hope so!!

Cheers

[cava]

As a suggestion, consider getting in touch with your local Community Law Resource Group. The advice is solid law based, free and generally gets results. Just puting it out there...

[Enfield Guy]

Very interesting.

[bsrlee]

I don't know what they are called in Queensland, but in Sydney the Metropolitan Water, Sewerage & Drainage board would be responsable for forcing him to deal correctly with his stormwater/drainage. Same mob as you pay your water & sewerage rates to. They also like coming around & checking if you are diverting your stormwater into the sewers (big no-no) as it causes the sewers to overflow & spread 'muck' everywhere.

[Enfield Guy]

Further to this issue.

I returned from Melbourne on Tuesday evening for a couple of weeks as the joombies running the site are just holding us up and costing us money, but I digress.

I have had a reply from the local councillor (attached). It seems that it is up to me to sue. Council will do nothing.

The lines I particularly like are: " In this instance, the storm water is piped to the rear of the premises and then across into the private stormwater line." First of all, this is not a "private stormwater line", the actualities are that this is an old greywater line that it is believed to run to local creek. Council had previously informed me that this is now deemed "community infrastructure". My question is how can this w@nker be allowed to confiscate "community infrastructure" for his sole and exclusive use? Answer, Councils have no power to intervene, control or regulate what happens within privately owned property. Sad really isn't it.

The other line I like is. " Unfortunately, Council has no jurisdiction over private certifiers." It seems that even though private certifiers stamp the documents with a council seal the council washes their hands of the matter. Seems awfully odd to me.

My best option now is to do the reno of the interior of my home so as to maximise the potential sale value of the property. Sell it. Buy a commercial property, that I had planned to do anyway, and move on with my life. In other words, bend over and get ready for the pineapple!!

I have neither the funds or the inclination to fight a protracted and expensive legal battle that has no practical outcome. I have been in this house for 15 years. I have worked hard and long to pay it off. To have a piece of crap neighbour do what he has done really does make my blood boil. Such stress I can do without.

Moral of the story. When it comes to councils and your property, do as you please as long as what you do is within code. There really is nothing they can or will do to help out you or any neighbours you affect by your actions.

Cheers
Bev

[_fly_]

What about a good pool pump in a small sump in your backyard and either
A:) blow the water directly at his back door.
B:) blow it over his roof so it goes the right way down the stormwater.
C:) be really really nice and pump it down you stormwater.

Or Push the council harder or the water sewerage company you deal with.

[AlexS]

Sounds like the council is just trying to avoid doing what they are obliged to. Maybe if you suggested to them that instead of taking him to court, you were thinking about taking them to court....

[Enfield Guy]

Sounds like the council is just trying to avoid doing what they are obliged to. Maybe if you suggested to them that instead of taking him to court, you were thinking about taking them to court....


Yes, this is pretty much in line with my thinking. It seems strange to me that the private certifiers tick off the development with a council seal, yet council claims to have no control of the use of this seal. My thoughts are, their seal = their responsibility. I shall be discussing this with a certifier that I know, and a friendly solicitor.

Cheers

[Peter57]

Had a similar problem at my sister's place. The neighbour ran their drive stormwater into a pipe and through the fence into her side yard. It contributed to a small flood even inside her ground floor.

Once it was in her yard, we figured it was her property so we filled it with expandable foam. Problem solved - well for us it was.

[corbs]

Sounds like the council is just trying to avoid doing what they are obliged to. Maybe if you suggested to them that instead of taking him to court, you were thinking about taking them to court....

This and a suggestion that Today Tonight or A Current Affair are interested in the story may also help. While I despise those types of shows and the journalism they represent, they do love a story about councils. Good luck.

[ian]

IIRC you have the right to dischage water across your neighbour's land provided yopu don't first concentrate it in a pipe. If the neighbour has effectively constructed a dam on the property line, fixing the drainage problem becomes his.

I don't recall you saying if you and your neighbours share the "community infrastructure" or if the pipe is council's or if it collectively belongs to you and your neighbours. I'm thinking that if the "community infrastructure" that carries the storm water from you and your neighbour's properties to the local creek, someone has the responsibility to fix it. Now that someone may be council -- in your case, because it is undersized I think it only right that they pay for your damage till it's fixed.

I know insurance companies get a bad rap most of the time, but if you're insured and if their assessor agrees that the damage is due to your neighbour's or Council's negligence, you should be able to sit back and watch the fireworks.

But after your check with the local community legal centre, you may find that you're supposed to share the cost with you neighbour -- in that case perhaps suggest that you share the costs, you'll bring the 10T excavator to dig the drainage trench across his yard, if he'll clean up afterwards.

[Enfield Guy]

Brisbane city council operates under a specific piece of legislation, City of Brisbane Act 2010. Other councils operate under separate legislation, go figure!!

I had previously been informed by council that the pipe in question is "community infrastructure". Seems strange that "community infrastructure" can be highjacked by an individual for their own exclusive use, even though it is patently inadequate to serve the purpose to which it is now put. He has 8 or 9 90mm downpipes from his house going into a 150mm terracotta pipe. I'm not sure that a hydrologist would agree with the certifier as to the adequacy of the system, the numbers just don't add up. This is Queensland where 50mm an hour is not an unusual amount of rainfall.

I note that in the response from council that they refer to the pipe in question as a "private stormwater line". It seems that the nomenclature has changed to suit the situation.

I have friends who work within other councils, Logan, Byron, and others. They, through enquiries within their own jurisdictions, have all said that the issue would be investigated by council officers and that I would be spoken to by a council officer in the course of those investigations. Not so Brisbane City Council. They talk to the certifier, certifier says nup, all is ok, council then contacts complainant and says the certifier says that it is all ok. Council also states at this point, "Unfortunately, council has no jurisdiction over private certifiers. There is nothing to indicate that the system as installed would be deemed unlawful."

Happy days!!

Good to see council working for the community isn't it. I'm so happy to be paying my rates right now.

Cheers

[Christos]

Amazing.

Just so amazing that this can go on.

[Sturdee]

Brisbane city council operates under a specific piece of legislation, City of Brisbane Act 2010. Other councils operate under separate legislation, go figure!!



You will find this is the same for all capital cities, definitely for Melbourne. Difference is that I think the Brisbane council area is much larger and encompasses most of Brisbane whereas Melbourne Council is just the central area of Melbourne.


Peter.

[AlexS]

There are several ways to work out the size pipe needed. If you can find a library with "Australian Rainfall & Runoff" including the maps that go with it, look up 'Rational Method' and 'Intensity-frequency-duration methods'. They will give you ways of calculating peak runoff. A good hydraulics text will give you the size of pipe ended.
These are general methods and apply more to ground runoff rather than roof runoff. You will also probably find that there are building codes that give simplified ways of calculating it from rooves, but I'm not familiar with them, nor how accurate they are, but they're usually pretty conservative.

[Tonyz]

I know insurance companies get a bad rap most of the time, but if you're insured and if their assessor agrees that the damage is due to your neighbour's or Council's negligence, you should be able to sit back and watch the fireworks.

.

Insurance company investigation= end of story not your problem apart from ratty neighbour

[ian]

There are several ways to work out the size pipe needed. If you can find a library with "Australian Rainfall & Runoff" including the maps that go with it, look up 'Rational Method' and 'Intensity-frequency-duration methods'. They will give you ways of calculating peak runoff. A good hydraulics text will give you the size of pipe ended.
These are general methods and apply more to ground runoff rather than roof runoff. You will also probably find that there are building codes that give simplified ways of calculating it from rooves, but I'm not familiar with them, nor how accurate they are, but they're usually pretty conservative.Hi Alex

the method in ARR still works with a roof, you just set the ground cover part of the run-off factor as equal to 1

from memory the biggest chalenge when using ARR is that the area of a roof is very small compared to the catchments it's designed for.

[ian]

Brisbane city council operates under a specific piece of legislation, City of Brisbane Act 2010. Other councils operate under separate legislation, go figure!!

I had previously been informed by council that the pipe in question is "community infrastructure". Seems strange that "community infrastructure" can be highjacked by an individual for their own exclusive use, even though it is patently inadequate to serve the purpose to which it is now put. He has 8 or 9 90mm downpipes from his house going into a 150mm terracotta pipe. I'm not sure that a hydrologist would agree with the certifier as to the adequacy of the system, the numbers just don't add up. This is Queensland where 50mm an hour is not an unusual amount of rainfall.

I note that in the response from council that they refer to the pipe in question as a "private stormwater line". It seems that the nomenclature has changed to suit the situation.

I have friends who work within other councils, Logan, Byron, and others. They, through enquiries within their own jurisdictions, have all said that the issue would be investigated by council officers and that I would be spoken to by a council officer in the course of those investigations. Not so Brisbane City Council. They talk to the certifier, certifier says nup, all is ok, council then contacts complainant and says the certifier says that it is all ok. Council also states at this point, "Unfortunately, council has no jurisdiction over private certifiers. There is nothing to indicate that the system as installed would be deemed unlawful."

Happy days!!

Good to see council working for the community isn't it. I'm so happy to be paying my rates right now.

Cheersyou might be able to have quite a bit of fun with this.

If by "community infrastructure" council means the 150mm pipe is "owned" by the owner whose property it passes through and all the users are supposed to pay to upgrade it, your contribution to the upgrade could be to borrow an excavator and dig the trench the new larger pipe will need. Just dig the trench leaving the excavated material on site.

[Enfield Guy]

Insurance company investigation= end of story not your problem apart from ratty neighbour

The problem I see with this approach is that the insurance company may pay to have the Fyrechech replaced on the rear wall of the shed, but they will not persue the neighbour for cost recovery. They will simply increase the premium that I pay and the problem will become ongoing.

The other issue is that while the shed is included on my home insurance the machines and equipment may be deemed commercial and therefor not covered. Proper commercial insurance to cover the shed is very, very expensive according to my research.

cheers

[artme]

Who was it said "The law sir, is an ass".???

[Bob38S]

Who was it said "The law sir, is a pain in the ass".???

I agree if this is what you meant.