Jumping Ship

[Scott]

After 18 years working in the public sector (health) I've decided to jump ship and join the private sector. I start my new job in 4 weeks. I consider myself a highly skilled clinician.

I was am sick of the current spat between our State and Federal Governments over health care funding. Jobs in our public hospitals are not being replaced, corners are starting to be cut, opportunities are minimal, moral is at an all time low, managers are pulling their hair out and sooner or later, mistakes will be made. This year (the first I can ever remember) close to 1200 nursing graduates could not get a position in the public system. Bed are being closed, theatre time is being reduced and the waiting lists have blown out from days to months and now years.

I'm sick of the health system being used as a political football. Our politicians are failing us and you ought to be mad as hell. I sure am.

[Handyjack]

I also work in the Victorian Public Health system (maintenance) and wonder how secure my job is. Any day I half expect to be told to clean out my locker (that will take half a day) and move on. If that happens I will probably try and make a go of it working for myself.

The Governments (federal and state) obviously can not (or want) to see what they are doing to the public health system. They may say it is great, but those of us at the coal face or using it know what it is really like.

I am as mad as hell, and hope I do not need to use the public health system.

[tea lady]

"Tis mind boggling the things the guberments of both persuasions seem to think is fair game to do so get their bottom line into shape. :S Up here they are going to apparently close the emergence department of the Angliss hospital at night from 9 pm till 9 am. And send all the pathology to Box hill to do. The plans at the children's Hospital are also gobsmackingly stupid and retrograde.

[Scott]

"Tis mind boggling the things the guberments of both persuasions seem to think is fair game to do so get their bottom line into shape. :S Up here they are going to apparently close the emergence department of the Angliss hospital at night from 9 pm till 9 am. And send all the pathology to Box hill to do. The plans at the children's Hospital are also gobsmackingly stupid and retrograde.

Well said TL, it's as though they're totally oblivious that there are actual people involved here. No wonder our perception of the ordinary politician is at an all time low.

[jhovel]

Hi all.
I'm in the same situation - in public psychiatric services. People are leaving in droves because they are sick of it all and are not replaced. The clinicians left behind are completely overloaded. This process has been going on for the past 12 months or so.
On Friday I pulled the pin. I'm old enough to access my super and have arranged the finances to be able to call it quits. 15 shifts to go! :U
Looking forward to spending more time in the shed and becoming gainfully unemployed. :roll:
Now just keeping fingers crossed I don' need the health system for anything urgent....:o

[Sturdee]

After 18 years working in the public sector (health) I've decided to jump ship and join the private sector. I start my new job in 4 weeks. I consider myself a highly skilled clinician.



Sorry to hear that you're leaving my favourite hospital Scott, now I'll never get to catch up with you when I'm there as an outpatient. Though it hasn't been possible very often.

All the best with your new work.


Peter.

[Scott]

Sorry to hear that you're leaving my favourite hospital Scott, now I'll never get to catch up with you when I'm there as an outpatient. Though it hasn't been possible very often.

All the best with your new work.


Peter.

Thanks Peter. It is a great hospital, don't get me wrong. And sorry I couldn't catch up with you lately, it's sometimes hard to get away from what I'm doing on time.

[Scott]

By the way, this is where I work (old, not new):

Austin Health to cut operations by 800 (http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/austin-health-to-cut-operations-by-800-20130127-2deyl.html).

A sad indictment on our flailing politicians. People's lives are being affected and the powers to be can can only spare 45 minutes to discuss it? C'mon.

[tea lady]

By the way, this is where I work (old, not new):

Austin Health to cut operations by 800 (http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/austin-health-to-cut-operations-by-800-20130127-2deyl.html).

A sad indictment on our flailing politicians. People's lives are being affected and the powers to be can can only spare 45 minutes to discuss it? C'mon.
My dad recently had a heart attack and the ambos said he was lucky cos Boxhill is on bypass so he got to go to the Austin and had a hear by pass operation almost straight away. Sister (who is a nurse ) said that if he had ended up in Box Hill Hospital without health insurance they would have found excuses to not do the by pass for months till they didn't have to do it anymore. :oo::C Some accountant manager is finding a great way to cut costs there.:C

[Chesand]

The pollies all need their heads banging together but even that probably would not knock any sense into their thick skulls.

All of the above is the reason why I keep private health insurance but I appreciate that not everyone is in a position to do that.

All the best Scott - I hope it works out well.

[Bushmiller]

This type of thing always looks to me like the precursor to privatisation. Good for the government (instant funds in the coffers) and nobody else :(( .

Regards
Paul

[BobL]

I wonder if this problem is really going to be solved long term by governments throwing money at this issue. Health, like education and the military, are black holes for money not helped by many in the private sector that suck on the government tit thinking that it can be tapped indefinitely.

[Sturdee]

My dad recently had a heart attack and the ambos said he was lucky cos Boxhill is on bypass so he got to go to the Austin and had a hear by pass operation almost straight away.


You're lucky he came by ambulance and Box Hill was on bypass otherwise the Austin would have sent him to Box Hill, being the nearest hospital. My GP has tried to get a number of his patients into the Austin, but was unsuccesfull and they were sent on to Box Hill and he was rung up and told of.



Sister (who is a nurse ) said that if he had ended up in Box Hill Hospital without health insurance they would have found excuses to not do the by pass for months till they didn't have to do it anymore. :oo::C Some accountant manager is finding a great way to cut costs there.:C


The best way to short circuit these shenenigans is to either faint on the premises so they cannot let you go because of legal complications or to refuse to take him back home and ring your local state member of parliament and complain. DAMHIK that they both work.


Peter.

[Sturdee]

Bed are being closed, theatre time is being reduced and the waiting lists have blown out from days to months and now years.



And yet the staff working under these pressures at the Austin do a fantastic job. Whether doctors, nurses, office staff, shuttle bus drivers and car park attendants they all are a pleasure to deal with, always willing to go out of their way to help you and with a smile.

From a patient's point of view you would never know they are under such pressure.


Peter.

[AlexS]

...ring your local state member of parliament and complain.
...making sure that he's aware that if you need to make another call, it will be to the media.

[Sturdee]

...making sure that he's aware that if you need to make another call, it will be to the media.

I rang him at 3.00 am at his home number and explained that I was a shift worker and just got up to go to work, and that I would ring him next day if it hadn't been sorted out.

It worked. :U


Peter.

[bsrlee]

It will continue until some politician has a wobbly and can't get treatment as fast as they want.

Happens all the time in Sydney with Sydney Hospital - Pollies get together & figure they can either sell the site to one of their mates on the cheap to build a luxury hotel/units, or gut the heritage building & build some essential accomodation for the members like a pool, gym & bar. Then one of them has a heart attack, or falls down the stairs after a 'smart lunch' & needs immediate attention, where upon they get a budget increase for a while until everyone forgets......

[tea lady]

All of the above is the reason why I keep private health insurance Not sure that really helps. Means they are only funded for a set amount of treatment and that's it. When I was having the baby some years ago now even the hospital people would recommend you went public, cos there wasn't an anesthetist on site so you would have to wait for him to be woken up if something went wrong in the middle of the night. And if the baby needed intensive care they were only funded for a finite amount when you then had to go somewhere else. I guess it would be good if you wanted elective surgery.

[kiwigeo]

My wife is a palliative care RN working in both public and private sectors here in South Australia. Her pay and work conditions are far better in her public sector job than in the private facility she works in. As an example....she is paid as a level 3 RN in her public sector position and the nurse to patient ratios are reasonable. In her private sector job she is only paid as a Level 2 RN (doing exactly the same job) and nurse to patient ratios are getting so bad alot of staff are leaving from the facility she works in. Last night she came home from a late shift hungry.......workload had been so bad she hadn't been able to take time off to have dinner.

If you're a clinician thinking about leaving the public sector take a long hard look at the pay and conditions being offered in the private sector before making the jump.

[Big Shed]

My dad recently had a heart attack and the ambos said he was lucky cos Boxhill is on bypass so he got to go to the Austin and had a hear by pass operation almost straight away. Sister (who is a nurse ) said that if he had ended up in Box Hill Hospital without health insurance they would have found excuses to not do the by pass for months till they didn't have to do it anymore. :oo::C Some accountant manager is finding a great way to cut costs there.:C


Not sure that really helps. Means they are only funded for a set amount of treatment and that's it. When I was having the baby some years ago now even the hospital people would recommend you went public, cos there wasn't an anesthetist on site so you would have to wait for him to be woken up if something went wrong in the middle of the night. And if the baby needed intensive care they were only funded for a finite amount when you then had to go somewhere else. I guess it would be good if you wanted elective surgery.

Somewhat contradictory there TL.

I agree with Chesand, we have kept our private health insurance up and when a few years ago I had some heart plumbing issues I was in the Epworth Hospital quick smart and had 3 stents fitted. Out of pocket expenses were zero and the level of care from all levels, including the cardiologists, was superb.

Didn't have to worry about fainting in foyers, ringing my MP, hospital by-pass rules, waiting lists and which hospital I should try and get in to through various means.

My daughter is an RN and has worked in both the public and private sector, currently working in the public sector, she agrees with Kiwigeo's report above, conditions and pay are far better in the public sector. Which perhaps explains to a certain extent why the public health system is under a certain amount of financial pressure.

[Bushmiller]

Out of pocket expenses were zero and the level of care from all levels, including the cardiologists, was superb.



Fred

I agreed with all your comments but my personal experience of expenses is that if you have private insurance is costs you at least twice: The first time when you pay premiums to the insurance provider and the second time when you get hit for the out of pocket expenses (such as medications) and the over the schedule fees (the anesthetists are the worst culprits there).

There are only two advantages that I have heard for private medical insurance. The first is that with elective surgery you can pretty much walk in and have the procedure completed with a very short time after diagnosis. This is as opposed to being on a waiting list for two years or more and having to endure discomfort at best and unacceptable pain at worst.

The second is that you get to choose your specialist. However, in the country areas you get a choice of what is there and that is a frequently a single surgeon so that benefit goes out the window. The exception to that is if it is pre-planned and you are prepared and able to travel to a major city.

I am saying this as someone who has had private medical insurance for over thirty years.

Regards
Paul

[Big Shed]

Fred

I agreed with all your comments but my personal experience of expenses is that if you have private insurance is costs you at least twice: The first time when you pay premiums to the insurance provider and the second time when you get hit for the out of pocket expenses (such as medications) and the over the schedule fees (the anesthetists are the worst culprits there).

There are only two advantages that I have heard for private medical insurance. The first is that with elective surgery you can pretty much walk in and have the procedure completed with a very short time after diagnosis. This is as opposed to being on a waiting list for two years or more and having to endure discomfort at best and unacceptable pain at worst.

The second is that you get to choose your specialist. However, in the country areas you get a choice of what is there and that is a frequently a single surgeon so that benefit goes out the window. The exception to that is if it is pre-planned and you are prepared and able to travel to a major city.

I am saying this as someone who has had private medical insurance for over thirty years.

Regards
Paul

Paul, you are correct that anesthetists seem to have an over inflated sense of their worth. In the case of my stents I had zero out of pocket expenses, but my wife had a minor operation here in our country town, the surgeon charged the recommended Medicare fee (highly unusual in my experience) but the anesthetist charged about $100 above the Medicare fee, only part of which would be covered by my private health insurance. So I fowarded him the private health insurance cheque and told him that there would be no further monies forthcoming from me, if he wasn't happy with that he could take me to court, but he would have to be prepared to justify his charges there. Never heard from him about the matter.

I have never had to pay extra for prescription drugs.

My reasons for staying in private health insurance are mainly that I want to be in charge of my own health, not be dependent on bureaucracy to decide when and where it will be convenient to do what is required.

I see it as just another cost, I insure my house, my contents, my car etc, why not insure my health?

Edit:

As an additonal thought, most (if not all) the insurance policies mentioned above have an excess of some sort. If I claim on my car insurance for instance the first $400 come out of my pocket. Not that different from private health insurance?

[Chesand]

Like Fred, I had heart surgery a few years ago and there were no additional costs over and above the hospital excess which was $250.

I figure that anaesthetists are worth their money as if they do not bring you round, the surgery has been a waste of time. In other words you can win the battle but lose the war.

[orraloon]

It is not just health but all of government services that are being either ran down or if they make a profit then basically stolen from the people who own them. I was sort of intending getting in another couple of years before retirement but as the place is being sold out from under us then I am sort of expecting the size 9 boot. They wont even come clean about that and give us a date. Just as well I got a shed for stress relief.
Regards
John

[Bushmiller]

Edit:

As an additonal thought, most (if not all) the insurance policies mentioned above have an excess of some sort. If I claim on my car insurance for instance the first $400 come out of my pocket. Not that different from private health insurance?

An interesting analogy. However with motor insurance, for example you are normally able to choose your level of excess (and naturally pay for that privilege), but with medical this is out of your control.

Also the intention with an excess is to keep you "honest." If you have to pay a small contribution you are less likely to claim. However, with health, once you get to the stage of surgery (we'll discount cosmetic procedures) few of us do it to get our money's worth. There is no longer a requirement to keep us honest, just a requirement to keep us healthy: Alive even!

I have been lucky in that I have enjoyed good health. I went for almost ten years without a day off sick from work up until about four years ago when I had both hips replaced. I was out of pocket close to $4000 despite having the top level of private medical cover.

It is no wonder that people become incensed by the system.

Regards
Paul

[Pac man]

Scott i agree that Health and political reform should be everyones top priority. As long as the states have the feds to blame and vice versa then there will be no change to public health.

My concern for staff in the private sector is how can you be sure that the corporates who cherry pick top dollar surgical procedures and midwifery cases to make profits for the shareholders over long term medical inpatient costs wont stiff the staff in the long run?

[Big Shed]

An interesting analogy. However with motor insurance, for example you are normally able to choose your level of excess (and naturally pay for that privilege), but with medical this is out of your control.


For about 15 years I had a comprehensive car insurance policy with a Nil excess (I had no claims during this period), 2 years ago I was informed that this insurance company no longer offered a Nil excess and it would go to $500, without any reduction in premium!
I shopped around and found that no other insurance company offered a Nil excess either.


I have been lucky in that I have enjoyed good health. I went for almost ten years without a day off sick from work up until about four years ago when I had both hips replaced. I was out of pocket close to $4000 despite having the top level of private medical cover.


That certainly seems excessive, but again one has a choice in this case. These days we are informed before the procedure by everyone involved what the cost is going to be and what we get back from our private health insurance.
On learning that you were going to be $4000 out of pocket you had the option to have the procedure done in the public system at no out of pocket cost, just because you have private health insurance doesn't preclude you from using the public system:no:. After all we all pay our Medicare levy and are entitled to "free" health care in the public system. Some public hospitals will even admit you as private patient and charge your private health insurance whatever their benefit is.
In fact a lot of public hospitals are quite keen on this "hybrid" system as they get more out of you this way than they would as a public patient.

As a "health services consumer" one needs to inform oneself of what options are available when "purchasing" these services just as in purchasing any other service.

[Chesand]

An interesting analogy. However with motor insurance, for example you are normally able to choose your level of excess (and naturally pay for that privilege), but with medical this is out of your control.

Regards
Paul

I agree that you cannot choose an excess level for medical but you can for hospital cover.
I have an excess of $250 for top hospital cover which is payable only once in any year. As it is 14 years since I have been in hospital, I figure that I am in front with the saving in premium payments.

[Big Shed]

Scott i agree that Health and political reform should be everyones top priority. As long as the states have the feds to blame and vice versa then there will be no change to public health.


Couldn't agree more, also applies to education and a range of other areas.

One could then ask, why then have state governments?

[rsser]

Scott, good luck with the move. Committed staff in the public sector can only keep a leaky boat afloat for so long before there's a toll on their own health.

It comprehensively p's me off that in Vic the govt can find 50 million for a car race annually but cut much more than that from hospital budgets or education spending. Surveys show that these are priorities for the public.

What's the procedure for getting heart and mind in sync? :rolleyes:

[Chesand]

What's the procedure for getting heart and mind in sync? :rolleyes:

That would be too much like common sense which aint very common nowadays.

[Scott]

If you're a clinician thinking about leaving the public sector take a long hard look at the pay and conditions being offered in the private sector before making the jump.

There is only two private health care companies I would work for and that's Ramsay Health and Healthscope. I'm actually moving to a Healthscope Hospital who is diligent when paying their staff and providing the right conditions. I'm actually going to get a significant amount more for what I consider the same job. They pay above award rates and the ratio's in critical care are the same as public.

For all those who consider anaesthetists charge too much, consider their job. They administer life threatening drugs to you (best analogy I can come up with) and essentially keep your body in a very delicate state of flux. They earn every penny IMHO. I work with them every day and admire them greatly. Additionally, 9.75 times out of 10, you will be anaesthetised by a Registrar (trainee anaesthetist) in the public system. There are NO registrars or residents in the private system.

I've sat back and watch the public system decline over the last few years and it saddens me that our first class public system is deteriorating. Superficially everything seems okay but scratch the surface and you'll be astonished. I'd love to say more but alas...