Lance Armstrong....

[Sebastiaan56]

Why.... why.... why..... Lance??

Its one thing to be a serial cheat and still create one of the all time great sporting legends. Its one thing to do amazing work in raising awareness of cancer treatment and the lifelong possibilities for survivors. It is one thing to create a personal brand that is identifiable by almost everyone in the English speaking world. But to trash it all by confessing on Oprah.. good god man what were you thinking? Why not just a nice quiet press conference on the lawn of the White House? or a photo op with starving orphans in Africa? Oprah?? Oprah?!?..... [shakes head turns and mumbles incoherently, wanders into murky sunset]

[vk4]

The man has another reason besides relieving his conscience, I think he's been a fool , but that's just me.

vk4

[MatMann]

she offered more than anyone else....

[Bushmiller]

she offered more than anyone else....

Matt

I am not privy to Armstrong's financial situation, but I expect it is significantly diminished compared to previous times. I suspect you have hit the nail on the head with the payment aspect.

He has gone down midst a flurry of greenbacks. By denouncing himself on Oprah's high profile programme he may also hope to scrape together some credibility, a bit like Nixon after Watergate where he continued to give speeches around the world, almost as if nothing had ever happened.

I think the Americans thrive on this perhaps more than any.

Regards
Paul

[underfoot]

...I've finally achieved one of my lifes goals..

...To have as many tour de france wins as Lance Armstrong...:)

[corbs]

I think he went on Oprah knowing he would get a sympathetic hearing.

To me he represents the worst of a bad era in the sport and he is no longer relevant. Personally, I'd rather no one talk about or to him and let the sport move on. It's been proven that he was a drug cheat, he had his chances to come clean and he didn't take them.

[Wongo]

Don't get too excited yet. The man is the master of manipulation and he is not going to admit anything that matters. This guy can start a cult if he wants to. Just look at how many supporters are willing to to defend him.

[corbs]

Wonder how true this (http://www.theonion.com/articles/lance-armstrong-admits-to-using-performanceenhanci,30912/) article actually is :rolleyes:

[Scott]

To me he will always be fool and a charlatan. He's only coming clean because it's purely self serving, nothing else. He should be banned from making money from this and I hope the fallout will hit him in the face (preferably a tonne of dog tur.ds).

[Wongo]

When LA said enough is enough and chose not to contest charges. He said he wanted more time to fight cancer. When he finally got more time to fight cancer he stepped down as chairman of his charity.

LA is cunning and he knows how to play his "fight cancer" card very well. Will we see it one more time on Friday?

[Grommett]

It's all about his next career.

Cheers Michael

[Homeleigh]

Perhaps they have cycling races in the Pen. Plenty of drugs available.

[Bushmiller]

Perhaps they have cycling races in the Pen. Plenty of drugs available.

:D. I'm not sure the drugs he took are illegal substances, just banned for sports athletes. Perhaps somebody else could confirm this. An example is that you can take the roids, but you can't compete in anything; A little self-defeating really.

Regards
Paul

[corbs]

:D. I'm not sure the drugs he took are illegal substances, just banned for sports athletes. ..

From the Australian Institute of Criminology website...


The possession, use and supply of steroids, other than by prescription from a medical practitioner, dentist or veterinarian is illegal throughout Australia as is unauthorised importation.

link to page here (http://www.aic.gov.au/crime_types/drugs_alcohol/drug_types/steroids.html)

[Bushmiller]

Thanks Corbs

My example was not a good one (in many regards). They are apparently so easily available I had assumed they were legal.

Regards
Paul

[Sebastiaan56]

I think there must be plenty of ways to cheat using edge of the law or legal substances as well. Caffiene, blood replacements and hyperbaric chambers come to mind. Im also sure that there is a leading edge of science that drips into professional athletic performance and the authorities are perpetually playing a catch up game. It is well known the various militarys all have research going on to optimise human performance. I think its cheating when it is not evenly available, think the shark skin swimming suits, aluminium bats or some of the more advanced cycle designs. The very nature of competitive sport is to gain an advantage over your opponent. In professional sport winning is everything.

I guess my original point is that yet again a public figure heads off into the sunset after purporting to be someone they are not. He is not the first nor will he be the last. He joins thousands of politicians, sports people, business people, authors, religious leaders, artists, etc, etc who are increasingly getting caught out. Lance plays a very sophisticated media game, that is for sure. But as for me, well fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Im rapidly running out of heroes.

[Wongo]

Now to the sport news. Lance Armstrong has won his 7th triathlon world title at the age of 49.....

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Koala-Man]

At least he had the ball to confess. :D

[jimbur]

At least he had the ball to confess. :D

Don't see it like that. He had a career in which he abused anyone who suggested he might have used unethical practices. Confessing after the fact of being absolutely exposed as a cheat is hardly a demonstration of balls especially if there is money in it.

[Sebastiaan56]

To be played at ear splitting volume....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6yTRq_rJg4

[Wongo]

First thing first

Yes, Lance dopedOprah says the agreement was "no conditions". Straight to doping question. Lance answers:

Yes.

Did he use EPO?

Yes.

Did he use other banned substances like steroids?

Yes.

Did he use PEDs in all seven of the Tour de France victories?

Yes.

OK, so we've hit the ground running … Armstrong says he lived a lie.

It was a perfect, mythic story. And it wasn't true.



OWN - Oprah and Lance Armstrong: The Worldwide Exclusive (http://ownspecial.oprah.com/lancearmstrong.html)

[corbs]

Don't see it like that. He had a career in which he abused anyone who suggested he might have used unethical practices. Confessing after the fact of being absolutely exposed as a cheat is hardly a demonstration of balls especially if there is money in it.

Jim, I think you will find that Koala's reference was the punchline to a joke. There's only one lolly in his lollybag :rolleyes:

[jimbur]

Jim, I think you will find that Koala's reference was the punchline to a joke. There's only one lolly in his lollybag :rolleyes:
Lol. So used to typos I didn't take any notice.:B

[Wongo]

Hmmm the man is not broken.

"I am sorry mum but everyone else did it too."

[FRB Design]

How can can you knock poor old Lance,at least his always positive! :D

[Wongo]

So part 1 is done but I am not sure what I got out of it. I suspect that LA is sending a secret message to his followers. :D

[snowyskiesau]

Don't see it like that. He had a career in which he abused anyone who suggested he might have used unethical practices. Confessing after the fact of being absolutely exposed as a cheat is hardly a demonstration of balls especially if there is money in it.

Whoosh!, that one went right over your head. :)

[jimbur]

Whoosh!, that one went right over your head. :)
Did it ever.:U

[enelef]

Crikey

Leave the poor guy alone. Besides lying, cheating, abusing, bullying, terrorising, and being a general tanker, what has he done wrong. Absolutely almost nothing.

Yeah - sure - he could have come clean earlier - but that was obviously against character - and character is one thing he proved he hasn't got.

Every chance he had to come clean was interrupted by accusations from friends and foes alike, and then he had to see his lawyers for litigation advice. When did he have the chance to speak?

Remember - Winning is everything - Just do it - second place is the first loser. Sure he gave away a little integrity- but he's got heaps left - hasn't he?

[corbs]

Guess he will get charged with drug pedalling now :doh:

[kiwigeo]

she offered more than anyone else....

Armstrong wasnt paid for the Oprah interview.

[kiwigeo]

LA cheated and screwed around alot of people but the way people go on you'd think he was the only pro cyclist who's doped? Even all time heroes such as Eddy Merckx have been caught doping (3 positive tests in the 60's/70's in Eddies case) long before Armstrong appeared on the scene. The Armstrong case is just a small part of a bigger picture.

When the UCI decided to strip Armstrong of his 7 TdeF titles has anyone asked why the yellow jersey wasnt awarded to any of the runners up? Its because all the runners up (eg Contador) have also been busted for doping.

[Wongo]

Look if he wins a couple of TDF and quietly go away then he would probably get away with it. But to do it 7 times and screw everyone against him makes him a well deserved No. 1 target.

Your "Everyone cheats" argument is a bit out dated. Can you tell me for sure that there is no one honest rider on the TDF? No ever one? The truth is he is the worst of the cheats, so why wouldn't they go after him. You catch the big fish first then worry about the small ones later. Isn't that logical?

[Wongo]

And please don't use the term hero so lightly. Superman and spiderman are heroes, not Lance Armstrong.

[kiwigeo]

Look if he wins a couple of TDF and quietly go away then he would probably get away with it. But to do it 7 times and screw everyone against him makes him a well deserved No. 1 target.

Your "Everyone cheats" argument is a bit out dated. Can you tell me for sure that there is no one honest rider on the TDF? No ever one? The truth is he is the worst of the cheats, so why wouldn't they go after him. You catch the big fish first then worry about the small ones later. Isn't that logical?

Agree with you 100% but youre missing my message....LA is just part of a bigger problem within the pro cycling game.

Call me a cynic but busting Armstrong wont result in the huge changes everyone is talking about. Tonight on the Channel 9 news we hear of some riders in the Tour Down Under refusing to comment on the LA/Oprah interview for fear of being chucked out of their teams (its called bullying in some circles). Its obvious their team managers have threatened them with expulsion if they talk about pro cycling's biggest problem. How can you hope to deal with doping within the ranks of pro cycling if people arent being permitted to talk about the problem??

[kiwigeo]

And please don't use the term hero so lightly. Superman and spiderman are heroes, not Lance Armstrong.

I was actually referring to Eddie Merckx as a hero not LA.

[fxst]

still not a hero ....heros put their lives at risk to save others not play sport and win.:((

Pete

[Wongo]

I was actually referring to Eddie Merckx as a hero not LA.

Understand. I do not know much about him but I can guess that he was a bike rider.

[Homeleigh]

The Opra interview was pathetic. LA did not answer the pathetic questions put to him fully. He did not apologise to those genuine riders he cheated out of finishes.Oprah asked questions that included the answers.The whole exercise was pathetic. When he fronts up to answer questions on oath to a responsible body then we might find out the true story.Two losers competing for ratings........

[Ozkaban]

The Opra interview was pathetic. LA did not answer the pathetic questions put to him fully. He did not apologise to those genuine riders he cheated out of finishes.Oprah asked questions that included the answers.The whole exercise was pathetic. When he fronts up to answer questions on oath to a responsible body then we might find out the true story.Two losers competing for ratings........

He said very little in the interview and it meant even less.

I would be genuinely interested to hear the whole story. How everything worked, including how the UCI comes into it. I don't think we ever really will though. Too many of the same people are still in charge.

[Grommett]

Are we there yet?

Cheers Michael

[MatMann]

he confessed, i think thats enough, details mean very little and probably wouldn't add to the details that others haven't already elaborated on.

one one hand we have the greatest drug cheat in sports history

who built a foundation for cancer awareness based on lies
ruined careers and lives by suing anyone who dared question his doping,

and whilst i don't think he is after or even cares if we accept his confession, I do believe he is trying to do enough to make a living after this all settles down, which he will because he is a cancer survivor and special rules apply.

[China]

Drug cheats are in every sport right down to your local footy club, it should not be tolerated no second and third chances if you are a drug cheat you shoukld be finished banned from any sport this is the only way it will be stamped out.
As some one quoted at the last Olympics if all competetors had to be drug tested half would board the plane and go home without competing As Lance Armstrong he got what he deserved unfortunately though, I would not write him off just yet

[Ashore]

He still has his supporters but then again Bike riding , dressing up in lycra , winging about cars not giving you road space , ignoring every road rule ( stop signs, traffic lights , crossings etc ) and now wondering why it has cheats and doppers as the heroes and role models , ..... you want excercise go for a walk or have ride the town bike, freedom of the road buy a propper bike http://www.woodworkforums.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Sebastiaan56]

I thought Phil Liggets comments were interesting as well. LA was there to win so he did what it took. That he shows no contrition doesn't surprise me. We have had a little peek into the mind of a very high achiever, other very high achievers probably aren't that different as personalities.

[kiwigeo]

still not a hero ....heros put their lives at risk to save others not play sport and win.:((

Pete

Your definition of a hero is a bit restrictive. Myself and many others consider Professor Fred Hollows a hero.....he neither saved lives or put his life at risk to do so. What he did do is save the eyesight of thousands of people in third world countries.

I also consider Neil Armstrong a hero...he endangered his own life to get to the moon but didn't save any other lives in the process.

My definition of a hero is anyone who displays courage and good qualities.....someone that others aspire to be.

[kiwigeo]

He still has his supporters but then again Bike riding , dressing up in lycra , winging about cars not giving you road space , ignoring every road rule ( stop signs, traffic lights , crossings etc ) and now wondering why it has cheats and doppers as the heroes and role models , ..... you want excercise go for a walk or have ride the town bike, freedom of the road buy a propper bike http://www.woodworkforums.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Underneath every middle aged man knocking lycra is a middle aged man WANTING to wear lycra :D

[corbs]

He still has his supporters but then again Bike riding , dressing up in lycra , winging about cars not giving you road space , ignoring every road rule ( stop signs, traffic lights , crossings etc ) and now wondering why it has cheats and doppers as the heroes and role models...

Sorry but I can't agree with your sentiments Ashore. The people he has hurt most are cyclists through the damage to the reputation of the sport. The people you refer to above aren't cyclists, they are people on bikes. I ride and I'm the first to have a go at others on bikes doing any of the actions you've pointed out above.

On my bike I obey every law that you have to in your car, I only wish to be treated as an equal on the road and not a potential speed bump.

[mic-d]

Until he confesses to genocide or bringing down a democratically elected government or acts of terrorism, which deserve the sort of air time it's getting... meh.

[Bushmiller]

Can I change tack just ever so slightly.

When money is introduced to sport there is an vastly increased incentive to win. When money is present at the level of top class cycling the incentive is there to win at all cost; No holds barred.

In a way, the only thing I find surprising is that we are continually surprised. Any sport that attracts huge prize money and requires physical strength or stamina is suspect. As the drug testing becomes more rigorous the drugs become more sophisticated and the exponents more adept at defeating the tests.

For me, I assume, (arguably incorrectly) that any standout athlete in the physical disciplines is suspect. Include in this athletics, swimming, weightlifting (in particular) and of course cycling. The football codes would be suspect too.

I don't really care ( although I am disappointed ) as most of the time I don't bother to watch them. It wasn't always that way. I emerged childhood thinking that life revolved around and existed primarily to play sport.

Today I wouldn't know which cricket team is touring Australia, who won the World cup (soccer) or who won Wimbledon. I watched about one hours worth of the last Olympics.

Some of this is because I've moved on, but some is because of growing disenchantment with the antics of the athletes and their ethics. I guess if you mind that there is cheating going on you should walk away and when I think about it that is just what I have done.

As for the despicable and very unsympathetic Lance Armstong, he made a big mistake. He got caught and now he is going to pay the price. If he is lucky he will come out of this disgraced and a pauper. Unlucky and he will go to the pen.

My own thoughts are that, taking his past behaviour and his arrogance, he has aggravated enough people during his career to ensure they pursue him through the courts until he owns just the clothes he stands up in.

Did I say I don't care. Probably not true as I am making way too much noise for somebody who doesn't care :- .

Regards
Paul

[Ozkaban]

Sorry but I can't agree with your sentiments Ashore. The people he has hurt most are cyclists through the damage to the reputation of the sport. The people you refer to above aren't cyclists, they are people on bikes. I ride and I'm the first to have a go at others on bikes doing any of the actions you've pointed out above.

On my bike I obey every law that you have to in your car, I only wish to be treated as an equal on the road and not a potential speed bump.

I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. You would be surprised at the number of people in the cycling community who have a go at rule breakers. You don't see that at all in the motoring community... And spare me the red-light rhetoric. It's a small percentage and needs to be stamped out, but they don't install red light cameras to catch bikes. If no cars ran red lights they wouldn't be there.

[corbs]

Soon to be a book (http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2013/jan/21/lance-armstrong-film-jj-abrams) and maybe even a movie :rolleyes:

It should be noted that the book isn't written by Lance though, interesting to see what Sony do with their version referenced at the bottom :doh:

[Wongo]

:D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YrDkcbcvOQ

[jimbur]

Abc radio quotes him as saying about a Sunday Times journalist who was getting near to the truth:

'F...ing Walsh, f...ing little troll, casting his spell on people, liar. I've won six Tours. I've done everything I ever could do to prove my innocence. I have done, outside of cycling, way more than anyone in the sport. To be somebody who's spread himself out over a lot of areas, to hopefully be somebody who people in this city, this state, this country, this world can look up to as an example. And you know what? They don't even know who David Walsh is. And they never will. And in 20 years nobody is going to remember him. Nobody.' Lance Armstrong, 2004.

[Wongo]

Makes you wonder who gave Armstrong his dictionary. :D

[Bushmiller]

Makes you wonder who gave Armstrong his dictionary. :D

A @#$%^&g nobody, that's who :rolleyes: .

Regards
Paul

[jimbur]

Makes you wonder who gave Armstrong his dictionary. :D
You mean his copy of Mein Bumpf?

[Drillit]

Well I think it is all over red rover - life means life and he cannot recover and must not be able to compete in sports.
It would be a good thing if he voluntarily repaid his illgotten gains. If not - go away. Drillit.

[hughie]

Dunno, of all those title he had to hand back etc. I have nothing about the next guy inline getting it... or did I miss it? Or maybe they think they all are takers. :D

[jimbur]

Dunno, of all those title he had to hand back etc. I have nothing about the next guy inline getting it... or did I miss it? Or maybe they think they all are takers. :D

I don't think they're going to risk it Hughie.

[Drillit]

Dunno, of all those title he had to hand back etc. I have nothing about the next guy inline getting it... or did I miss it? Or maybe they think they all are takers. :D

Hughie,
I think the problem is that most if not all of those that finished behind him in the Top 5 have also ben outed. Sad day for cycling me thinks. Drillit.

[Sebastiaan56]

Apparently they didnt test anyone below 20th place so now they really have no one to give them to. Quite funny really, Tour de France results from Lance Armstrong era must remain blank, says race director Christian Prudhomme - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/9607188/Tour-de-France-results-from-Lance-Armstrong-era-must-remain-blank-says-race-director-Christian-Prudhomme.html)