People Power Required

[rod1949]

I'm posting this on all forums that I can think of, and you can do the same.

Lets all get off our whinging backsides and do something about the price of fuels. It affects each and every one of us either directly or indirectly (ie freight costs increasing food cost).

In mass we can do something about the TAXES on fuel.

The article on Channel 9's ACA last night on fuel was interesting and that attitude of the ACCC was appalling, we pay the bastard's wages and this is how he treats us.

So, with the help of this sites Administrator/s (please) what about setting up an online petition to go to the government/pollies with the following two issues, which I think are just as important as each other;

(a) the current taxes (which I think is around 35%) on fuels be reduced to be inline with and the same as GST 10%.

(b) the ACCC starts working for its employer, being the People of Australia and not the corporations.

Or something along these lines which could be dressed up.

This online petition would have to have the ability to go to and be placed on every other type online forum, as the MASSES will be required on this one.

Now there will be the Knockers and the Negatives out there.

So what do you reckon?

[LineLefty]

Seriously Rod, I reckon you're outta your tree mate. Those taxes are actually used to pay for things like (funnily enough) roads you know.

Quite frankly, the higher the price of fuel goes the better for our society. That way, we'll stop building low density housing estate 40kms in the city so everyone can hop in their cars and drive to work. It might also encourage people to walk or cycle to their local shops instead of getting in their V6 commodore.

I get pretty sick and tired of people complaining about higher taxes one minute and then whinging about the state of the roads.

Lets assume we reduced the fuel tax from 35% to 10% I'd like you to think about the consequenses of that tax revenue being lost. What services would need to be cut? Defense? Science? Education? Health? Transport Funding? You choose.

Where would the extra money be spent by consumers? Most likely in the generation of more household debt.

Bring it on government bashers!

[bitingmidge]

Well here's a contrary view too.

I don't particularly think that taxes on fuel should be reduced. Redirected maybe, to provide better roads etc.

If fuel is a finite resource (which it appears to be) then there is nothing wrong with making it expensive.

Commuting one-up in a seven litre yoot :D :D is ok if you can afford to pay for the fuel, but of course in an 800cc duel fuel machine you will use a lot less. User choice.

There a few diesel passenger cars available at the moment which achieve 4l per 100 k's, so they are using a third of the fuel (and paying a third of the tax) of your average Aussie family sedan, and a tenth as much as the dopes driving their kids to kindy in three ton 4wd through city traffic.

So.. how about we change the attitude of the people of Oz to align it more with those in Europe, and treat personal transport as the luxury it really is rather than a right which needs more subsidy from government.

Up the taxes and use the dosh to fund proper roads, and speed camera assassination squads. The more k's you do, the more you pay towards the roads that you use.

THERE'S the basis for a petition!

Cheers,

P -(Two cars, 100,000k's per year)
:D :D :D

[silentC]

To be more specific, over sixty billion dollars has been collected in fuel excise alone between 1996 and 2001. Yet according to the current government's publication "Heading in the right direction", sent to all Australian homes, only one billion, four hundred and thirty seven thousand dollars have been spent on road related issues in that period. (These figures do not include the issue of double taxing where GST is imposed not only on fuel products, but also on their excise (tax) component.)

The purpose of adding an excise on fuel, in the first place, was to establish a source of income for the Government to fund the development and maintenance of the national road infrastructure system. An extra surcharge on fuel of 1cpl in 1982 under the Australian Bicentennial Road Development Trust Fund Act was introduced to also establish a roads funding programme. However, only a total of approximately 6cpl of the excise is actually linked to road expenditure - out of (currently) over 38.14cpl collected in excise, not to mention the trust fund and GST that is added on top.

The collection of excise is not proportionally linked to the funding of road programmes and it is clear that that the revenue collected by the government does serve other purposes. In particular, spillover effects, which are not reflected in the price of fuel, should be addressed via the revenue collected through the excise on fuel.

Source: http://fueltaxinquiry.treasury.gov.au/content/Submissions/Industry/VACC_239.asp

Adam, as a student of economics you would be aware of price elasticity mate....

[Rocker]

Rod,

You don't realise how lucky we are. In Europe people pay at least double what we do here for fuel, and tax represents around 75% of the price.

Unfortunately, the Americans are not willing to impose high enough fuel taxes to curb their excessive consumption, which drives up the price of oil for the rest of the world. Americans pay only about two-thirds of what we pay for fuel, but despite their much higher incomes, they are whingeing mightily at what they are paying now.

Since the World's reserves of oil are likely to be exhausted in the next 100 years or so, it is inevitable that the cost of petrol will escalate as that time approaches, until alternative technologies, such as fuel cells running on hydrogen, become competitive.

Meanwhile, I am happy to pay taxes, if they help to control excessive consumption of fuel. We can argue about how the revenue generated is spent, but that is another issue.

Rocker

[silentC]

Don't believe for a minute that the government imposes the fuel excise to get people to use less. I'm sure the oil companies would love that. The fact is that no matter how expensive it gets, people will still buy it. It is price inelastic - for every increase in price, the drop off in demand is proportionally less. That's why they hit it.

The main reason I suppose is that there are few, if any, substitues. If there was a decent sustitute for pertrol, then it would become price elastic and therefore the demand would drop off if the price climbed too high. The government would then need to find something else to get the tax revenue from. And the oil companies would be very upset indeed.

[DanP]

and tax represents around 75% of the price.


How much tax do you reckon we pay on fuel. State and Federal combined, I think 75% would be conservative (but in the ball park).

Dan

[SteveAndBelle]

I couldn't agree more. I can't believe how cheap we're getting our fuel here, even at $1.15 for the 'premium' stuff here in Brisbane it's still cheap as chips !

Crank the price of fuel up as high as it needs to go to balance everything else out. It will hopefully make the wealthy think twice about getting that massive V8 4WD to take the kiddies off to school each day and make the slightly 'less fortunate' think if they really need to hop in their cars to pop down the shops for that newspaper and carton of milk (which will also cost more thanks to higher fuel prices).

Unfortunately here in Brisbane our Public Transport system is fairly limited and if it was better I dare say more people would use it for their day-to-day transport needs ... but I still can't see why there are people out there who still think they need to own one or two large V8's or large 4WD's when realistically they don't need them.

Don't even bother getting me started on luxury 4WD's like the BMW X5 or the Porsche Ceyenne (or whatever that butt-ugly thing's called). What's all that about ? Grrrrr. If even one person could seriously justify the existence of those particular vehicles I'd be very surprised.

Bad news is our new Mayor is 'pro-tunnel'. Sure our roads need attention but if a large part of the total tunnel budget was spent on upgrading & improving the Public Transport system then we wouldn't need to go to these extremes ... surely. Mix that with the extra tax from higher fuel prices and that's got to be a winning combination, right ? Everyone wins.

Steve.

[SteveAndBelle]

Just as a side note ... did you know you can very easily convert an old diesel engine to run on vegetable oil ? Did you also know that you can apparently take a brand new diesel VW Golf off the showroom floor and run it off veggie oil without causing any problems to the engine in the future ?!?!

My uncle has already converted his 1980 golf to veggie oil and has been using it for about a year now with little or no difference to performance (ie. it's chugs along but it hasn't got any worse ;) and my father in law is about to convert his soon too. Apparently it's a very simple procedure that can be done without too much pain or effort. He wants to park it next to his brand new Prius ... hmmm Prius ... ugly, but really efficient.

This means we can runs cars from a 'more sustainable' source instead of fossil fuels. Yay. Makes the exhaust smell like a fish & chip shop tho ... seriously !!

[DanP]

Why would you bother, Veggie oil is about 3 times dearer than diesel.

[silentC]

It will hopefully make the wealthy think twice about getting that massive V8 4WD to take the kiddies off to school each day and make the slightly 'less fortunate' think if they really need to hop in their cars to pop down the shops for that newspaper and carton of milk (which will also cost more thanks to higher fuel prices).
That's the point. It doesn't!!

If you really wanted to reduce consumption of petrol, you would introduce rationing of some sort. The government has no interest in reducing fuel consumption.

[bitingmidge]

Why would you bother, Veggie oil is about 3 times dearer than diesel.
Cause you can actually use second hand fish-shop oil. Only downside is that the exhaust smells like calamari farts. True!!


don't even bother getting me started on luxury 4WD's like the BMW X5 You probably picked the wrong mark there Steve, the diesel at least uses 2/3 of the fuel of most "family" sedans.


Don't believe for a minute that the government imposes the fuel excise to get people to use less.
No, but my point is that they should!

P
:D :D

[Gingermick]

even one person could seriously justify the existence of those particular vehicles I'd be very surprised.

They need those cars so they can drive faster than everyone else. And thus feel that they are powerful and have large genitalia.

Bad news is our new Mayor is 'pro-tunnel'. Sure our roads need attention but if a large part of the total tunnel budget was spent on upgrading & improving the Public Transport system then we wouldn't need to go to these extremes ... surely. Mix that with the extra tax from higher fuel prices and that's got to be a winning combination, right ? Everyone wins.

Steve.
The whole idea of making Brisbane easier to drive around in is surely the worst idea ever voted for. I saw recently somewhere that quite a lot of Victorians were heading back to Melbourne because the public transport in Brisbane was so **** poor.
mick

[LineLefty]

Adam, as a student of economics you would be aware of price elasticity mate....

Buddy, not only am I aware of elasticity, I wrote the bloody book!
See: http://dynamic.dotrs.gov.au/bte/tedb/tablist.cfm?startrow=11 (I used to work at DOTARS)

The Price elasticity of petrol looks like the attached image. As you can see it is realtively inelastic in the short term. Travel behaviour is based on major decisions such as where you live and work, the car you drive etc. These can nto be changed over night. The long term elasticity however suggest that a major price hike would cause people to rethink there habits.

Granted though it's still not an overly elastic commodity.

Now to the issue of the 'government' whacking taxes on fuel to encourage less driving. Well the fedeal govt couldnt give a toss about congestion in major cities. Thats not their problem. All the Howard govt cares about (and rightly so) is the efficient movemetn of freight around the country and to our export ports.

The state governmetns have a big interest in reducing our car use. Unfortunately, given the low elasticity of fuel, and the HIGH 'upwards' elasticity of public transport, they know that they can't just whack extra taxes on fuel. So, in fairness to those arguments thats probably not why they're taxing fuel.
(By high 'upwards' elasticity I mean that public transport patronage is very elastic when fares go up. Just look at the parents of school kids complain when the fare rises by 10c. If it goes down by 50c though no one cares and patronage doesnt rise much at all.

[silentC]

There are so many similar examples of "if they wanted to ..."

If they wanted to stop speeding, they'd speed limit the cars.
If they wanted to stop people smoking, they'd ban cigarettes.
If they wanted to stop people driving, they'd limit your access to fuel.

Putting up the price is one way of limiting access, but as we know if you put it up high enough to actually make any difference, it is just going to drive the price of just about everything else up.

If they really wanted to reduce our use of fuel, they would physically limit our access to it. I maintain that the only reason we have such high tax on fuel is because they know they can hit us with it and people will complain but still pay.

Public transport just isn't a factor in rural areas. That's the other thing people forget about - we don't all live in cities.

[silentC]

And another thing. Here where we have very little choice - a bus that runs about 4 times a day between the 6 or so towns that make up the area - we pay quite a bit more than you do in the city where you actually have a public transport system. I think it's about $1.30 at the moment and they're forecasting $2.00 within the year.

[Rocker]

SilentC,

The only reason that consumption of fuel in Australia is relatively inelastic at present is that the price is not yet high enough to constitute a real deterrent. However, in England it is; my sister, who lives in SW England, owns a holiday cottage in NW Scotland. If the price of petrol were not so high, she would drive the 600 miles to get there when she goes on holiday. But it is more economical for her family to fly up there rather than drive; so that is what she does.

Rocker

[LineLefty]

As usual I beg to differ. In larger regional centres publci transport a viable option. Places like Dubbo, Bunbury etc have great sytems.

As for smaller towns, well theres no need and no one expects them to catch a bus down the shops, because theres no congestion costs to over come.

The real problem is not the actual use of fuel. It's more the cost of providing inrastructure for all the cars and trucks. Eventually we'll be using alternative engery for oru transprot but if we've still got hte same travel habits then our cities will become more and more clogged. God knows why anyone woudl wnat to live in Melb or Sydney now let alone in 50 years time. I, for one, do not want to spend 2 hours driving to work.

[silentC]

England is much smaller than Australia. If I wanted to get to most places I can think of outside of a city, I would be relying on some form of road transport for at least part of the way. We are lucky enough to have an airport in Merimbula but most other people in our region have a 1 or 2 hour car journey ahead of them if they wish to fly anywhere.

Yes, obviously if they put the price up to $3.00 a lot of people would stop buying it. However I don't think that would be in the interest of the powers that be. For a start, they would lose the revenue that they currently collect. There would be a break-even point where the extra tax revenue would be balanced out by the drop in demand. Then it would start to go the other way. So they would then need to find some other source. Maybe it would be a tax on timber, seeing as there are so many of us around these days?

[Grunt]

If they wanted to stop people smoking, they'd ban cigarettes.

This won't stop people from smoking, it will just make them criminals. Prohabition has never worked.

[silentC]

As for smaller towns, well theres no need and no one expects them to catch a bus down the shops, because theres no congestion costs to over come.
So why do we have to pay so much more for fuel? Perhaps we should get ours subsidised because of the lack of an alternative.

[Jacob's Dad]

It's true, It's true, public transport in Brissie is terrible. I live less than 3.3 km from work, door to door. It usually takes me 7 or 8 minutes to drive to work.

There is a bus stop at my font door but it would take 2 different busses and 47 minutes to complete the trip to work.

Why would I use public transport??

[Wongo]

Education is the key. If you want people to drive less then teach them. Let them know the importance of using public transport. (Of course our PT system needs to improve.)

The problem is we are living in a first world country. We take a lot of things for granted. Water, paper, electricity and fuel become so basic and worthless.

We need to change the way we live. We need to stop improving our living standard or even back off a little bit.

I agree that high petrol prices may or may not reduce fuel consumption. But low petrol prices certainly won’t help.

Keep the price up and stop them from driving to the city during peak hours.

[simon c]

Some thoughts of mine:

Why should there be one to one correlation between tax fuel and money spent on roads. The cost of roads is only one factor in the cost of a private transport system. It should also pay for:
Health care to cover the cost of treatment from accidents
Pollution
Policing of road laws
Awareness campaigns to reduce drink-driving, speeding, etc

[silentC]

Let them know the importance of using public transport.
Public transport just isn't a factor in rural areas. That's the other thing people forget about - we don't all live in cities.

Why should there be one to one correlation between tax fuel
No-one is saying there should be but that was the justification for the excise in the first place. How much of it do you think is spent on anything even vaguely road-related?

[simon c]

How much of it do you think is spent on anything even vaguely road-related?
I wouldn't even want to guess how much of the health service and police is specifically related to roads. I could imagine it was a lot though. But, more of a concern is that I don't think anybody really knows the full cost of the private transport infrastructure. I just think comparing tax on fuel to money spent on infrastructure may be missing some other very significant factors.

[craigb]

Wow, 2 pages and this thread has stayed on topic. Is this a record?

[bitingmidge]

Maybe it would be a tax on timber, seeing as there are so many of us around these days?

Don't forget that in recognition of the growing scarcity on most rainforest species, the collection of same has been banned altogether in this country.

So there IS recognition that some timbers are a diminishing resource!

Cheers,

P (Always ready to assist in keeping a thread on track!)
:D :D :D

[simon c]

Wow, 2 pages and this thread has stayed on topic.
Not any more!

[silentC]

Did you know that blackbutt is a fire rated timber, suitable for level 2 + 3 construction of decks and other external timber features?

[craigb]

No I can't say that I did. Is that because it's slow to catch alight?

[silentC]

Not if you pour petrol on it. See, right on track ;)

[bitingmidge]

Actually even if you pour petrol on it, the petrol will burn off, and the timber will form a charcoal insulative layer, inhibiting further combustion.

(I made that up, but it's based on fact.)

P
:D :D :D

[LineLefty]

So why do we have to pay so much more for fuel? Perhaps we should get ours subsidised because of the lack of an alternative.

Silent,

As part of my work with the Bureau of Transport and REGIONAL Economics, The dept PM John Anderson was always keen to get us looking at the various costs of living in rural and remote areas and ways to overcome them. e.g higher public transport and fuel costs, communications and food etc etc.

If someone ever mentioned that perhaps there were offsetting benefits for those living in the country, you were quickly told to put that opinion back in it's box.

It seems though that higher fuel prices and a lack of PT is a small price to pay for living in a place like Merimbula, Eden or Moruya where you have:

Cleaner air and water
No traffic congestion
Cheaper housing
Closer proximity to local services
A better sense of community(?)
The opportunity to live on larger acreage and still be reasonable commuting distance to work.

So please, no subsidies on your petrol.
One day, we will agree on something :D 1+1=2?

[craigb]

Not if you pour petrol on it. See, right on track ;)

Well seeing as we're going to have to have Thanksgiving now, shouldnt that be pour Gasoline on it ?

[silentC]

Cleaner air and water - perhaps.
No traffic congestion - hmmm, not in Merimbula at the moment. I should send you some clippings from the local paper.
Cheaper housing - Hah!! Try nothing under $400,000
Closer proximity to local services - Services? Sorry, they were closed down by the State Government. They want to close our hospital too. You have to DRIVE to Canberra for most of them.
A better sense of community(?) - Yeah well, not the way things are here lately. Too many sea changers with their city ways.
The opportunity to live on larger acreage and still be reasonable commuting distance to work. - OK, we agree on that one...


;)

[LineLefty]

Can I ask you a direct question then? What are the benefits of living in Merimbula? Do they outweigh the higher costs and lack of services? I can understand that housings not that affordable in places like that. Away from the coast its a bit different though.
I was flabergasted at the rpices of houses in Kiama. A basic 3 beddy going for 350k!

[Groggy]

First, good on you for trying to do 'something' Rod!

1. I vote for the ACCC guy being given a free visit to the proctologist.

2. The Government will just get the tax from elsewhere or cut services, wrong thing to do.

3. We should be regulating the profit the companies are making, they are too clever by half and spend a fortune (of our fuel money) thinking up ways to dodge the intent of legislation. A fair profit by all means, but not collusive or monopolistic behaviour (industry wide).

[silentC]

What are the benefits of living in Merimbula?
For me they are:

1. I grew up here. Family and friends etc.
2. I don't have to catch a train/bus to work. No more 1 hour there and back.
3. Our kids get to grow up in a more kid-friendly environment and with their grandparents and cousins nearby. This is the main reason we moved back.
4. Generally less people about so going to the beach, shops etc. isn't such a nightmare (though it still is in holidays)

Not really anything financial. I took a huge salary cut to come here (about 30%) and not much, if anything is cheaper. Probably the only real saving was commuting costs. I ride my bike to work.

[bitingmidge]

4. Generally less people about so going to the beach, shops etc. isn't such a nightmare (though it still is in holidays)

But if we had to pay more for fuel, then there'd be fewer people there (here) on holidays as well.

P
:D

[silentC]

Or we could follow Byron Bay's example and introduce a holiday tax.

[bitingmidge]

Or we could follow Byron Bay's example and introduce a holiday tax.
Then everyone would KNOW we were wankers!

P :D

[Sturdee]

Wow, 2 pages and this thread has stayed on topic. Is this a record?


Actually, Craig not many replies are on topic as the question was mainly about organizing online petitions about fuel costs.

Not many replies on the merit of an online petition. :D


Peter.

[Iain]

Can I ask you a direct question then? What are the benefits of living in Merimbula? Do they outweigh the higher costs and lack of services? I can understand that housings not that affordable in places like that. Away from the coast its a bit different though.
I was flabergasted at the rpices of houses in Kiama. A basic 3 beddy going for 350k!
The rest of the world is not isolated hence more expensive housing, and I don't know where you get the idea that people in Melbourne spend 2 hours driving to work.
In July we have to travel to Perth for the National Showjumping championships, we do that most years and travel to Sydney (about $500 with horse), Brisbane ($800), Adelaide (also about $500), how much to Perth, wow $6000.00, we are really impressed, can't tow myself as it's too far away with too much nothing in the middle, all the other places have stops and services along the way. This one we have to fly the horse across and ourselves.
I for one love Melbourne and everything it has to offer culturally and having lived in Perth for 2 years I have never had the urge to return.
I, like most other residents from Vic are not nailed to our State and can move anytime we wish but chose not to, and we do not consider ourselves hard done by.
We live in a rural setting, no neighbours and several acres and I can get to Mlebourne in an hour easily, and the roads are sealed too.

[beejay1]

A very interesting post there Rod which fuelled a very lively response.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gif
Not sure youre going to get your petition though as usually people will always put up with price increases.
Over here when this happens people tend to seek out the lowest price available which is usually always one of the major supermarkets like Tesco, and buy from there as a protest to the oil companies. Believe it or not it has been effective in the past.
beejay1

http://community.webshots.com/user/eunos9

[DanP]

Hey, I can get a bus. Once a day. As long as I want to come back tomorrow. I can't get there and back in a day coz the bus only goes once.

Dan

[beejay1]

Hey, I can get a bus. Once a day. As long as I want to come back tomorrow. I can't get there and back in a day coz the bus only goes once.
Dan
Think there could be a song in there for you Dan...



"One way ticket to the Blues" http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gif

beejay1

http://community.webshots.com/user/eunos9

[Gingermick]

This won't stop people from smoking, it will just make them criminals. Prohabition has never worked.
That doesn't stop the idiotic polititians talking about idiotic wars on "drugs"
mick

[ozwinner]

Think there could be a song in there for you Dan...



"One way ticket to the Blues" http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gif

beejay1

http://community.webshots.com/user/eunos9
I once caught a bus, dahdah da duh..
It only went one way, dahdah da duh..
I saw the other town, dahdah da duh..
But had to stay all day, dahdah da duh..
I want to get home!!, dahdah da duh..
But here Ive got to stay, dahdah da duh..


Thank you very much............

Al :D

[beejay1]

I once caught a bus, dahdah da duh..
It only went one way, dahdah da duh..
I saw the other town, dahdah da duh..
But had to stay all day, dahdah da duh..
I want to get home!!, dahdah da duh..
But here Ive got to stay, dahdah da duh..


Thank you very much............

Al :D
Ahhh,They dont write em like they used to anymore do they Al.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gif
beejay1

http://community.webshots.com/user/eunos9

[Daddles]

The sad part about Ozwinner is that his avatar is far too appropriate. I can't believe he's only a bit over a year older than me. I'm not that grumpy am I? Am I? :rolleyes:

Richard

Victor Meldrew is my role model

[craigb]

I once caught a bus, dahdah da duh..
It only went one way, dahdah da duh..
I saw the other town, dahdah da duh..
But had to stay all day, dahdah da duh..
I want to get home!!, dahdah da duh..
But here Ive got to stay, dahdah da duh..


Thank you very much............

Al :D

Thank you, "Blind Mango" Al

Mississippi blues king :)

[kiwigeo]

Anyone looked at how much fuel is in real terms....ie after you take inflation into account? Dont think youll find its alot more expensive than it was back during the oil crises of the 70's.

[kiwigeo]

SilentC,

The only reason that consumption of fuel in Australia is relatively inelastic at present is that the price is not yet high enough to constitute a real deterrent.
Rocker

Agree with you there Rocker. I reckon alot of people are so bone lazy theyd drive to the toilet if they could fit their cars through their front door.

[Grunt]

Anyone looked at how much fuel is in real terms....ie after you take inflation into account? Dont think youll find its alot more expensive than it was back during the oil crises of the 70's.

I think the inflation adjusted price per barrel in the late 70's is $80 or $90. We've got a bit to go before it reaches those levels again. Maybe the end of the year.

Grunt

[craigb]

I think the inflation adjusted price per barrel in the late 70's is $80 or $90. We've got a bit to go before it reaches those levels again. Maybe the end of the year.

Grunt

You are right on the money there Grunt.

I remember when the first Commodore was released in '78 ( I think) , that one of the popular models was the 4 cylinder :eek:

Can you imagine what a gutless piece of crap that must have been ?

A mint one is probably worth a bit of money now I suppose.

[Grunt]

A mint one is probably worth a bit of money now I suppose.

Not a chance.

[kiwigeo]

I think the inflation adjusted price per barrel in the late 70's is $80 or $90. We've got a bit to go before it reaches those levels again. Maybe the end of the year.

Grunt

Have checked out a number of sources and inflation adjusted price for oil peaked in 1980 at circa $US90 a barrel and have averaged around $35 a barrel since then. As you correctly state we have a long way to go before we get to the prices of 1980.

As an aside..although I mutter a curse every time I have to fill up the car in the back of my mind is the knowledge that high oil prices are keeping me in a job. I still have memories of waiting for the bullet during the crash of 85/86.

[Christopha]

A cut and paste of an email I received and forwarded tonight.... make up your own minds what you do with it..... if anything.....


Petrol prices - worth thinking about!

This initiative does come from Barry Minster, worth calling and chatting to
him if you need reassurance.

Apparently we are going to hit close to $1.35 a litre by the winter. If
this happens the prices will flow on down to the price of every thing we
buy! Want petrol prices to come down? We need to take some intelligent,
united action. Philip Hollsworth, offered this good idea.

This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the "don't buy petrol on a certain "day"
campaign that was going around last April or May! The oil companies just
laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to "hurt ourselves"

by refusing to buy petrol. It was more of an inconvenience to us than it
was a problem for them. BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with
a plan that can really work.

Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think
that the cost of a litre is CHEAP at .89 / .95 cents, we need to take
aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the marketplace not
sellers. With the price of petrol going up more each day, we consumers need
to take action. The only way we are going to see the price of petrol come
down is if we hit someone in the pocket by not purchasing their Petrol!

And we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves.

Here's the idea:

For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY petrol from the two biggest
oil companies (which now are: BP and Mobil). If they are not selling any
petrol, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce their
prices, the other companies will have to follow suit. But to have an impact,
we need to reach literally millions of BP petrol buyers. It's really simple
to do!!

Now, don't wimp out on me at this point...keep reading and I'll explain how
simple it is to reach millions of people!! I am sending this note to a lot
of people. If each of you send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)
.and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000)... and so
on, by the time the message reaches the sixth generation of people, we will
have reached over THREE MILLION consumers!

Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people. That's all. (and not
buy at BP and Mobil) How long would all that take? If each of us sends this
email out to ten more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION
people could conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!! I'll bet
you didn't think you and I had that much potential, did you!

Acting together we can make a difference. If this makes sense to you, please
pass this message on.

PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE 80 cents a LITRE RANGE.

It's easy to make this happen. Just forward this email, and buy your petrol
at Shell, Caltex, GAS. or Gull Outlets and drive past BP and MOBIL
Stations.

Barry Minster
State President
Ex Service, Service & Veterans Party

[Gingermick]

The real problem is not the actual use of fuel. It's more the cost of providing inrastructure for all the cars and trucks. Eventually .
I pay rates to my local council and they service the local road network. I also pay registration on my car to the State goverment and they construct and maintain main roads. Taxes to fed for highways.
Most new local roads are funded by developers building subdivisions.

They need to keep the excise in place to fund ad campaigns (and junkets) to convince us that their latest lie was not a lie at all. And that we have always been at war with Eastasia and peace with Oceania.

mick

[Iain]

I refuse to believe that, Governments are honest after all, a solicitor told me this so it must be true :rolleyes: