Thanksgiving.... here????

[gemi_babe]

I got a bit of a scare tonight, when I heard on the TV that in May (17th I think) its going to be "Thanksgiving Day".

Now I don't mean to offend any USA members here, and will appoligise now if I do offend you.

I don't want to become a miny america. They have it all wrong!

Has anyone watched 'Bowling for Columbine' with that Moore guy?

In that doco, he goes on about the govt making parents on welfare go back to work. Guess what Howard is doing now? Yes its fine to go back to work, when your child is at school or being looked after by relatives AND that you get to spend quality time with them. I can't just go and get any job. I can't do shift work, but in America, they are made to do so, or they don't eat or stay warm!
*watch the film and you will get what I'm trying to say*

So many things that are USA all over, are becoming more and more of a reality down under and that scares me.

American's commercialised Easter!
We now celebrate Valentines Day just like them!
And now Thanksgiving?

The worse thing about it, it was JUST announced on TV, we didn't have a choice, we didn't have a say, they say WE are celebrating it.

:(:mad:

[boban]

What are you worried about? It's not like we would go to war for oil........

[Daddles]

Arrrr, them seppos are just jealous coz we got Camilla and they don't :D

Cheers
Richard

[MikeK]

Hi,

I lived in the US for a few years. I am not a supporter of a lot of their foreign policy but my impression of Thanksgiving in the modern context (i.e. I don't want to get into the debate of the historical aspects) was that it was a non religous based family and friends related holiday. It was a time for families to get together and just celebrate being a family. IMHO, I think that we'd all be better off with a bit more of this.

Regards,
Mike.

[bitingmidge]

It was a time for families to get together and just celebrate being a family. IMHO, I think that we'd all be better off with a bit more of this.

We have special occasions celebrated every year in our family.

We call them BIRTHDAYS.

Then of course there are PICNICS.

And BARBIES in the park on public holidays.

I don't need a government or a shop or anyone else to tell me to be thankful.

... and I certainly don't need Halloween!

Cheers,

P :D

[Gumby]

Has anyone watched 'Bowling for Columbine' with that Moore guy?

In that doco, he goes on about the govt making parents on welfare go back to work. Guess what Howard is doing now?
:(:mad:

1. Michael Moore is an idiot.

2. I fail to see why my taxes have to support parents who separate. (Where one parent has died, I see it differently but that's not the normal situation)

[silentC]

Wasn't Thanksgiving all tied up with the pilgrims and all that crap? What the hell has that got to do with us? Sounds like Mr Hallmark wants to add a new wing to his mansion to me.

[bitingmidge]

Oh yes and while I'm at it...

I want to celebrate CHRISTMAS, not a happy holiday.

Life wouldn't be the same without the boxing day test, or backyard cricket (and croquet for my mum) on Christmas day.

Don't you just love the thought of turning on the tele to watch the first day of the first day of the Melbourne Holiday test, or helping your mum put the threepences in the holiday pudding......

Cheers,

P

[Kev Y.]

1. Michael Moore is an idiot.
NO.. Howard is the idiot, as well as George dubbya



2. I fail to see why my taxes have to support parents who separate.

Yours AREN'T.. MINE are :mad:

(appologies..point 2 is a touchy subject with me at the moment!)

[Gumby]

Yours AREN'T.. MINE are :mad:

(appologies..point 2 is a touchy subject with me at the moment!)

I'm pretty sure I know where you are coming from and let me tell you, I've been ther myself :mad:

[Kev Y.]

American's commercialised Easter!
We now celebrate Valentines Day just like them!
And now Thanksgiving?



Dont forget:
Mothersday OR Fathersday

Bonsi Johnnie (little Bush) Is bending over backwards to ensure that the usa gets 6 more states and two more territories

I am tired of australians picking up (mainly) americian "festivals" when all they know about them is:

a) we can get presents :mad:
b) kids can get lollies :eek: (mostly from strangers)
c) we can get a day off! :o :confused:

Thanksgiving and Halloween have NO significance in our society, most of our forefathers were convicts NOT pilgrims.

Damn.. I swore I was not going to get involved in any more political debates here.. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Iain]

(and croquet for my mum)
Mom, Midge,MOM :p :rolleyes: :D

[beejay1]

So many things that are USA all over, are becoming more and more of a reality down under and that scares me.
I lived in Oz for a few years in the early 70's and all my family and friends would always ask me what Australia was like.
I always used to sum it up very easily by telling them it was very Americanised but the people were much nicer.
My observations at the time were based on things like:

Radio shows like the chat shows and the DJ's who chaired some of them
TV advertising which tended to be very outward
Marketing concepts and styles.
Everyday things that were available there at the time
Hypermarkets and shopping malls
Stores offering lay by
Openair cinemas
Ice cream /milkshake parlours
Car salerooms ( paramatta in my time)
Passion for V8s and utes
A life style, where I lived in Sydney, that seemed very Californian
Drive in Liqour stores and ice vending machines
Transit /restricted lanes
Highways

All these things and more made Oz to me very Americanised indeed and the only major difference to me was as i said that the people were more tolerant and much nicer.
Please dont take offence by this. These were my observations at the time and how I would describe living in Oz to my friends and family back home.Even now when i think of the place and look at the old piccies, most of the above spring to mind.
beejay1

http://community.webshots.com/user/eunos/9

[gemi_babe]

Sorry I should of explained myself more clearly with the 'wanting parents to work bit'.

In the doco a mother was forced back to work. She had to board a bus at some silly hour of the morning (3am) to go to work an hour and a half away with a young child (6yrs old) staying with an uncle. The uncle had a gun, the kid took the gun to school and shot dead some kids. And all this while, she was working for the company that produced these guns!

This wouldn't of happened if the mother was allowed to stay at home, on welfare, have food on the table and be warm. but the govt wants all parents back at work.

This would have a major impact on society as we know it today adding to the already problem family's out there. It would add those responsible parents to that problem.

I'm a single mum.

I didn't ask my 'ex' to leave, to shag someone else, to realise that having a child means responsibility. NOW>... if the govt got off thier **** and made him pay up every week, then being on welfare for me, would probably be a non issue. I am working now, only part time, but I can't go full time with where I live. As it is, I am already working out of the 9-3 school hours and am relying on a babysitter to show up on time, plus I have to pay her too. I don't have child maintenance coming in regularly. Last time I recieved money from the dick was back in Dec.

And now back to the americanising thing...

We don't need thanksgiving, halloween, valentines day. You guys struggle on valentines day as it is.. I wonder how you would go, fitting in another day where the media fill our heads with unnessecary rubbish, that we have to spend time with family/friends to say, hey I love you, thanks for everything.

pfft!

[silentC]

I fail to see why my taxes have to support parents who separate.
I suppose like any social security system, there are those who use it and those who abuse it. Possibly a larger percentage abuse it, I don't know. The thing is, for the people who really need it, it's there and it's accessible. If you take it away, the abusers will either find another scheme to abuse or go out and get a job. The ones who really need it will end up on the street. So which is better?

[journeyman Mick]

Gumby,
how do you feel about your taxes being used to support critically ill people and their partners who need to stay home to look after them?

Mick, who paid s**t loads of tax when he was contracting and employing and who is now on the receiving end.

[Iain]

No problems Mick, but I have problems with those who see it as their right not to work while I have no right to decide who is worthy of my contribution.
I refer to the chronically/professionally unemployed as opposed to those who cannot find a job or are in any other form of dire straits.

[boban]

NOW>... if the govt got off thier **** and made him pay up every week, then being on welfare for me, would probably be a non issue.


Some fathers who are left with $20 a week after paying up, seeing their kids get nothing, while their ex wife shacks up with a new guy (who pays nothing) might see it a little differently.

I've heard both sides and know that CSA eventually get the non paying fathers through the tax system or by garnishing his wages. It's just a pity that the govt doesn't think it appropriate that the mother has to account for the money she gets.

As for you Mick - I wish you got more of my tax dollars, your exactly why its there in the first place.

[Gumby]

Gumby,
how do you feel about your taxes being used to support critically ill people and their partners who need to stay home to look after them?

Mick, who paid s**t loads of tax when he was contracting and employing and who is now on the receiving end.

I haven't got a problem with it and never said I had.

[journeyman Mick]

Sorry, not having a go at anyone, just making the point that there's a lot of deserving cases out there. Governments on both wings have traditionally made recipients out to be bludgers and shirkers rather than victims. Of course there's those that try to rort the system, but I'm guessing it's a minority. At any rate it's a favourite government ploy to distract the public from poor government performance. Yes, social security costs a lot, and yes there's some (a lot?) who could possibly do without it. How much money is spent on politician's bloated salary and pension packages? Useless overseas travel? Changing the names and logos of government departments (rather than actually changing their culture or performance)? The list goes on and on, government wastes bucket loads of our tax dollars, but the recipients of the dole and single parents pensions always seem to cop a serve by the government and the press.

Mick

[gemi_babe]

boban for me, my situation is slightly different.

'he' has signed up in a franchise and CSA cannot touch his wages because that is taking money away from 'the company' and his 'business partner'.


Back on topic, my fear is that America have already got this system in place and it has tragic outcomes. We don't need more povity (sp?).

Australia followed America and built huge flats to house the welfare family's. That prooved to be a success didn't it? NO! It created a bigger problem. Well der!!!! Of course those in similiar situations are going to mingle and never get anywhere!

The way I see it, America is there, learn from thier mistakes... HA!!! No we just keep on following them. Here Boy!

[Gumby]

boban for me, my situation is slightly different.

'he' has signed up in a franchise and CSA cannot touch his wages because that is taking money away from 'the company' and his 'business partner'.

!
Gemmi,
That isn't correct. He earns wages, paid by the company and has a personal tax position as well as the company having a tax position. His personal taxable income is what they can hit , and should. He should be made to pay for his children, not the community and that was my point. He may however, be hidding income by paying himself a low wages from the company and that is more difficult to assess. If he is a director , he would be able to take 'drawings' from the company rather than wages. The franchise situation hasn't really got much to do with it.

Mick,
I agree that governments of all colours take way to much in taxes to fund all sorts of rorts, trips, and even more annoying they hand it out like lollies to all sorts of different bodies, councils and organised groups (particularly in the arts field) who have their noses firmly in the trough. We are being taxed out of existance and sometimes you feel that it just isn't worth the effort to push on. My Mum is a self funded retiree at 75 and still has to pay tax. I think that's bl**dy ridiculous. She's not wealthy but my parents saved all their lives, have a couple of investment properties (just small ones) and now this damn state government is hitting them with land tax on top of the income tax they pay. I can't see why people over 75 for instance, who can look after themselves shouldn't be rewarded with a tax free life at that point. They have earned it and are no burdon on anybody. It makes you think that maybe they should have just sold everything, gone and spent all their money on holidays and then returned home with nothing and qualify for the pension.

I don't want to sound mean here and I know that we have to pay taxes which help look after those in genuine need for whatever reason and that is how it should be. It's just the waste and the other stuff Iain mentioned in his post which gets me off my bike sometimes. :(

[Sturdee]

He may however, be hidding income by paying himself a low wages from the company and that is more difficult to assess. If he is a director , he would be able to take 'drawings' from the company rather than wages. The franchise situation hasn't really got much to do with it.


Ofcourse if the ATO was serious about getting child support evaders to pay than it would issue a Betterment Assesment. This takes into account all moneys spent in a year, consisting of declared income, black income and access to income hidden by way of loans, gifts and any capital moneys spent. Then it is up to the taxpayer to disprove that assesment. :D :D :D Which in my experience is damn nigh impossible. :p

Having issued an assesment the real income is known and support can be enforced.


Peter.

[gemi_babe]

Sturdee is that the correct term "Betterment Assessment"?

[Sturdee]

Kylie,


That's what it was called about 20 years ago when one of our clients was caught by the ATO. They couldn't work out where his money came from. So they calculated the value of his assets and 5 years previously. Then they estimated his living expenses and as such estimated his annual income and issued assessments.

It was hard to explain the increase in assets, but we did. :D :D :D


Peter.

[HappyHammer]

Sturdee is that the correct term "Betterment Assessment"?
Gemi,

If you've got kids to support he should absolutely be made to pay, if not I don't see why you should get anything.:eek:

HH.

[gemi_babe]

Thanks for that HH, we have a son together...

And he is being told to pay, but not made to pay... He gets told to pay every month, and every month he says he will, and never does... then it starts all over again. Last time I recieved a payment was in November.

Thanks Sturdee, I will ask them about that assessment.

:)

[boban]

When it comes to tax time, he will be forced to pay up as the ATO and CSA are linked. If he owns the business and the business makes a profit, they can and will get what is due.

[adrian]

Neither Halloween nor Thanksgiving are American inventions. They were being observed in Great Britain when America was just a gleam in Columbus' dad's eye.
As for Australians giving thanks, it's just another indication of the rise of the ratbag religious right. The idea of thanksgiving is to give thanks to 'god' for everything you have. It makes no allowance for the fact that people have to work damned hard to get what they have and god doesn't come into it.
If there is anyone out there who can see evidence of a god at work..........good luck.

God certainly isn't in my workshop. I was making a cover for my nextdoor neighbour's pool filter when a nail from my nail gun took a sharp right turn and exited where my thumb was sitting. Then a couple of days later while the thumb was still hurting I was sanding a bowl and my hand slipped and hit the chuck. Then I was taking my new VM120 off the lathe and misjudged where the thread ends. The chuck only fell a short distance but a finger jambed between a 4kg hunk of metal and a cast iron bed ain't pleasant.
Still I suppose that I can give thanks to god that nothing has happened to my right hand. Touch wood.......................................Oh sheeeee! ...................a bloody splinter....................that's the last time I touch wood.
See you all in church!!!!

[Daddles]

Ahh Adrian, you took the Lord's name in vain and look what happened. :D

Cheers
Richard

[Iain]

Praise the Lord :rolleyes:

[Sturdee]

See you all in church!!!!

Adrian,


Although I'm not a believer and the only times I go to church are for weddings and funerals I found your post obnoxious and insulting.

To blame a God, whom you don't believe in, for your own stupidity is even more amazing.

A reddie is on its way to you to record my disgust.


Peter.

Ps. I forgot to change it from green to red, sorry, but will remember to rectify it later when able. :mad:

[DPB]

Adrian,

Although I'm not a believer and the only times I go to church are for weddings and funerals I found your post obnoxious and insulting.

To blame a God, whom you don't believe in, for your own stupidity is even more amazing.

A reddie is on its way to you to record my disgust.

Peter.

Ps. I forgot to change it from green to red, sorry, but will remember to rectify it later when able. :mad:I agree, Peter and I am a believer, so naturally, I find these kinds of remarks offensive. It always amuses me how people who claim God doesn't exist, are quick to blame Him for their own folly.

[silentC]

We are encroaching on a taboo subject, however:

Although the idea of 'giving thanks' is an old one, the actual celebration of Thanksgiving was formalised by George Washington in 1789 and it is an American idea and an American holiday.

I agree that the celebration of religious holidays is a bit hypocritical for many of us. I'm not about to offer to work on Good Friday or Easter Monday but the religious overtones of those public holidays are lost on me. Same with Christmas. ANZAC day I can appreciate, despite the services etc. because it is all about the diggers and the religious part is secondary. Boxing day and Labor day - who knows what they are all about. Point is, I'm happy to have a paid day off for whatever reason.

However, if we are to have Thanksgiving, to whom or what are the remainder of the Australian population - those who are not practicing Christians - giving thanks to?

And guys, I think you should lighten up a bit on Adrian. He never actually blamed God for his misfortunes, he just implied (and from what I can tell in a tongue-in-cheek manner) that there was no almighty force watching over him in his workshop. Perhaps the bit about the labotomy was a little ill-advised though.... :)

[craigb]

However, if we are to have Thanksgiving, to whom or what are the remainder of the Australian population - those who are not practicing Christians - giving thanks to?



Bradman? ;)

O.K. I'm being flippant. I also agree with the thrust of your post. :)

[silentC]

I'm being flippant.
Not at all. Makes a lot of sense to me ;)

[DPB]

As an Australian, I have many reasons for being thankful.

I am thankful for:


living in a wonderful country
the freedom I have to express my opinions without fear of prosecution (as long as I don't vilify others in the process)
having a say in how I am governed (i.e. democracy)
a free press
the bounty that is ours:

food a plenty
fresh air
clean water

near full employment
high standard of living (by world standards)
good education system
good medical system
beautiful weather
marvelous scenery
bountiful oceans
clean air
modern infrastructures
freedom of travel
great woodworking community (OK, maybe I'm getting carried away here:) )
the freedom to pursue my personal interests
religious freedom
for family and friends

Well, you get the point.



To whom I express my thankfulness is my own business. As a believer, I am thankful to God for these things. But even if I were not a person of faith, it seems to me that it would be a very positive and uplifting idea to have a day set aside to express our appreciation to each other for what it means to be a citizen of this wonderful country.

I see little to be gained in bashing an idea just because it is an American practice. We are quick to accept so many negative aspects of American culture, it seems to me that this one will do us no harm and more likely will be a positive affirmation of what it means to be Australian.

Woodchuck Canuck steps down from the soap box and bows graciously to the audience.;)

[craigb]

it seems to me that it would be a very positive and uplifting idea to have a day set aside to express our appreciation to each other for what it means to be a citizen of the wonderful country.



I thought Australia Day was supposed to cover that.

[silentC]

it seems to me that it would be a very positive and uplifting idea to have a day set aside to express our appreciation to each other for what it means to be a citizen of the wonderful country.
I thought that was the idea of Australia Day.

[Sturdee]

We are encroaching on a taboo subject,........ ................. Perhaps the bit about the labotomy was a little ill-advised though.... :)

Discussing religious freedom rather than a particular religion is not taboo. My objection is based on the attempt to denigrate those that believe in a God, same as it would be if it was about Allah or Buddha or a Supreme Being.

In particular the labotomy bit I feel was insulting to them.


Peter.

[RETIRED]

Discussing religious freedom rather than a particular religion is not taboo. My objection is based on the attempt to denigrate those that believe in a God, same as it would be if it was about Allah or Buddha or a Supreme Being.

In particular the labotomy bit I feel was insulting to them.


Peter.
So did I. It has been edited.

[Gumby]

I think you should go one step further . it's time to close this one IMHO. :(

[adrian]

Remind me to be more serious when I post anything. It seems some people CAN see evidence of a god. Sorry guys.

If you look at the advertising hoardings on the way to Port Macquarie you will be informed that 'God Lives Here'. I guess we get a little complacent here since he's a resident.

[RETIRED]

Now that Adrian has replied I shall close it.