Tradesmen Prices

[gemi_babe]

I've got a plumber coming out today or tomorrow to install external pipes and shower rose in the bathroom. Unfortunetly the old bath spout is seized on and I don't have the tools or the know how to get it off without taking a hammer to it lol

Anyway, $60 an hour. :eek:

Who sets the prices and why this much?

The guy is going to let me pay it off cause of the urgency but $60 an hour?

Says it will be 2hours work, plus the fittings.

:(

[Dean]

That's the norm.
When you're in demand, you can charge whatever you like!

You're doing well if he doesn't have a $60 call out fee too!
:o

[Soren]

Based on prices here in Melb, that is actually quite " :cool: reasonable"

[MathewA]

Your job aint worth much and you want it done right away - supply and demand pricing in action.

I need a furnace installed in my house, the old one is filling the house with carbon monoxide. Phoned 5 heating companies in the middle of summer (figured this would be a slow time for them) only 1 showed up to even look at it and they wanted way too much. The furnace cost them about $1200 and the install time would be about 6 hours total cost $2500 + tax = screw them. I'm selling now so let the next owner fix it.

[ozwinner]

Anyway, $60 an hour. :eek:


Thats cheap, try getting a brickie, one I know gets $70 per hour on hourly rate easy..:p

Al :D x the biggest number you can come up with....

[echnidna]

Anyone who is self employed is very lucky to get any more than 20 hours productive work done in a 40 hour week. There are so many bits of bull and red tape you are compelled to do such as Prescribed payments, Gst just to name a couple.

[doublejay]

There are 261 working days per year (52 weeks x 5 days + 1)
If you deduct annual leave (20 days) Public Holidays (say 11 days) and sick leave (say 8 days) there are only 212 days where the employee is actually available for work. Ignoring the complications of RDOs etc., it seems reasonable to hope that an employee is going to be gainfully employed for about 75% of his time. All up this means that he works for 159 days but is paid for 260 days. The $60 per hour now looks more like $37 per hour - and out of that the someone has to pay for tools, motor vehicle exes, workers comp, public liability etc., etc.,

Sounds like a bargain

[ndru]

Anyone who is self employed is very lucky to get any more than 20 hours productive work done in a 40 hour week. There are so many bits of bull and red tape you are compelled to do such as Prescribed payments, Gst just to name a couple.

...not to mention the ability to structure business affairs so as to alienate taxable income to spouse and/or children, get paid in cash or barter to avoid GST, choice between FBT or income tax. ;)

I agree with Doublejay. I think 75% chargeable time is actually optimistic if you take into account things like time spent on preparing quotes and time spent travelling between sites.

[ozwinner]

Do tell??
I have always failed at tax avoidence.
So any help is appreciated.

Al

[echnidna]

...not to mention the ability to structure business affairs so as to alienate taxable income to spouse and/or children, get paid in cash or barter to avoid GST, choice between FBT or income tax. ;)

Those things only come into play after you make a profit
and they are nowhere as simple to access as you seem to think, in fact it costs good amount of money to do it.

[Sturdee]

Those things only come into play after you make a profit
and they are nowhere as simple to access as you seem to think, in fact it costs good amount of money to do it.


Have to disagree with that. A good business structure should be set up before you start trading not after you make a profit. Restructuring whilst already operating is much more difficult and expensive than doing it right in the first place.

It will also defer the day that you start paying taxes as losses created with such structures will delay that awful day.

Peter.

[Sir Stinkalot]

Anyway, $60 an hour. :eek:

It doesn't seem too bad .... it sounds like a lot if you think of it as a straight $60 per hour take home profit but there are expenses to take out of that. I had a handyperson do some weeding and they were charging $40 for unskilled work ..... at least the plumber has done an apprentership.

I was reading some quotes at work today for structural engineering ....
Principle engineer $170 p/h
Engineer $120 p/h
Drafty $80 p/h
Administration $60 p/h

Bugger .... I have chosen to use the wrong degree :(

[routermaniac]

hmmmm sounds similar to what my mechanic is charging... $100 an hour, that is why from now on I'll be doing all work on my car :D

Mind you if you consider what they wanted to install aircon at home, $60 an hour isnt so bad... my advise to you buy some tools and do it yourself... it works out much cheaper in the longrun...

[fxst]

Mind you if you consider what they wanted to install aircon at home, $60 an hour isnt so bad... my advise to you buy some tools and do it yourself... it works out much cheaper in the longrun...

but if she dont have the know how it could end up costing big $$$$$$ for the damage to be undone.
Gemi $60/hr is ok for what you get try to remember they have running costs and have to live too
Pete

[gemi_babe]

I guess when you think about the expenses its not so bad.

$100 for a mechanic? I would fix my own car too if my mechanic charged that much.

[kiwigeo]

Something wrong with this country....people happy to pay a plumber $60 an hour to fix your shower spout but same people baulk at paying nurses a decent wage to keep them alive.

[MathewA]

I guess when you think about the expenses its not so bad.

$100 for a mechanic? I would fix my own car too if my mechanic charged that much.
Depending on how old your car is you'd have to buy the diagnostic computer to fix it. That'll run ya at least $4000. Add another $700 in tools and a few courses on how not to wreck yer car... $100 an hour doesn't see all that much anymore.

[MathewA]

Something wrong with this country....people happy to pay a plumber $60 an hour to fix your shower spout but same people baulk at paying nurses a decent wage to keep them alive.
Nothing wrong with it at all. No one forces anyone to choose thier carreer - nurses are free to go and do something else if they think their pay sucks.

Us in the trades have had to endure some real lean times; we don't complain we just get on with it and then try to make it up when things are good - like they are now. Nurses get paid for their job regardless of how the economy is going.

[kiwigeo]

Nothing wrong with it at all. No one forces anyone to choose thier carreer - nurses are free to go and do something else if they think their pay sucks.

Us in the trades have had to endure some real lean times; we don't complain we just get on with it and then try to make it up when things are good - like they are now. Nurses get paid for their job regardless of how the economy is going.

First off let me state I have nothing against trades people...except the ones who do shonky work or never turn up on time.

My comments have nothing to do with people being forced to chose their career. What I was pointing out was that the problem of poor remuneration for nurses is largely one of public perception. IMHO joe general public has little idea of what nurses really do and the conditions they work under. Untill that perception changes nurses will never get paid what theyre really worth.

Yes, youre right...everyone has the right to quit if they dont like a job....alot of nurses are doing just that and its one reason the health system in this country is heading for basket case status. The nurses that remain in the system do so largely out of a sense of devotion to their patients and this is taken advantage of by the health industry.

[kiwigeo]

Nothing wrong with it at all. No one forces anyone to choose thier carreer - nurses are free to go and do something else if they think their pay sucks.



Mathew, Ive just noticed youre in Canada. I think in your country youll find that nurses get paid a whole lot more than they do here in Australia and New Zealand.

[simon c]

Something wrong with this country....people happy to pay a plumber $60 an hour to fix your shower spout but same people baulk at paying nurses a decent wage to keep them alive.

I agree with your point about nurses being underpaid, but I'd like to point out that a plumber may charge $60 an hour but that does not equate to their hourly salary - an hourly equivalent may well be half that.

[nic]

At the risk of getting flamed, the family has had a few hospital stints in the last few months 3 to be exact and each time we go there, all we do is wait , wait , wait.
Now I don't mind waiting if everyone is busy but most of the time when I go and see what's up after 30 minutes of waiting when they said I'll be back in 5, I see all the nurses chating and laughing in their staff room.
They don't look that over worked or stressed !

I'm open to any explanation but I've yet to see the outrageous conditions in which they work in.

nic

[kiwigeo]

At the risk of getting flamed, the family has had a few hospital stints in the last few months 3 to be exact and each time we go there, all we do is wait , wait , wait.
Now I don't mind waiting if everyone is busy but most of the time when I go and see what's up after 30 minutes of waiting when they said I'll be back in 5, I see all the nurses chating and laughing in their staff room.
They don't look that over worked or stressed !

I'm open to any explanation but I've yet to see the outrageous conditions in which they work in.

nic

Gidday Nic,

Cant answer your question about why the nurses were chatting and laughing in their staff room.....I imagine if I was a nurse id probably spend some of my time in a staff room away from the blood and guts engaging in a bit of stress relief with my workmates.

As far as outrageous conditions go....heres what my wife puts up with at the private hospital she works in.

- badly thought out rosters...often home from a late shift at 11.30pm and out the door for an early shift at 5.30 next morning. In most states not letting a worker get at least 8 hours continuous sleep between shifts is against the law.
- absurd nurse to patient ratios. One nurse looking after 5 patients in an ICU ward.
- being expected to lift heavy patients by herself. Oh yes the hospital has a great OHS policy that states that two nurses are required to lift a patient with the use of a lifting frame. Trouble is the staffing levels on a shift a so pitifully low assigning two nurses to lift a patient is impossible.
- antequated equipment. The hospital is too stingey to buy in equipment that reduces the risk of needle stick injuries when handling syringes and IV needles. My wife has had 3 needle stick injuries in the last 3 years......
- a base pay rate of circa $30 an hour. Pitiful for someone with a Masters degree and over 20 years of experience. If it wasnt for the penalty rates during the weekend my wife would have quit along time ago.
- often has to work with agency staff who receive no orientation before arriving at the hospital. My wife has to deal with her patient duties as well as continuously monitor 2-3 agency staff.

Starting to rant here but you get the general picture.

[silentC]

Have to agree about nurses plus you can add teachers. Friend of ours is a registered nurse. She went to the UK in search of better pay. Our loss.

My solicitor charges $70 per 15 minutes. My company charges $135 per hour for the work I do. Fact of the matter is that the market determines the price. If no-one was prepared to pay $60 per hour for plumbers, they wouldn't charge it.

[gemi_babe]

Well I'm not prepared to pay $60 an hour, but I have too. No other choice. Everyone is doing it.

anyways... by 10am he hadn't showed. I ring him, his reply "OH yes, that unit you wanted was the wrong type, it was a side entry (yadda yadda yadda), and I haven't given it much thought after that.... give me an hour and I will call you back"

So for $60 an hour its great freakin service!!!!!!

Thats what bugs me the most! I wouldn't mind if the guy had actually shown some interest in the job, after all he will be getting paid.

I bet if I make him wait for payment, he wouldn't be so happy. But that is what I'm going to do.

Not happy Jan!

[gemi_babe]

The nurses thing.... they go into that chosen career knowing about bad wages. Then chuck a hissy fit when they are in the job... whats with that?

You and I might think the job is extremely hard, but to the nurses, once you have done your training, I guess the job, like any, is like riding a bike. Like plumbers, no job is too hard, it is to me, but to them its easy.

Same goes with the nurses.

[Iain]

The offer of cash can often yield some good results.

[Iain]

Pitiful for someone with a Masters degree and over 20 years of experience.
BUt just about every occupation today requires a degree or certificate, my niece proudly displays her Bachelor of Business Studies and works as a clerk (that was a requirement for the job), parking officers need a certificate in local law and administration, so the list goes on, this is not a critisism of a MA (I have one too as well as a Phd) but the whole tertiary qualification system has really become a left handed wank.
As a friend of mine puts it, we are becoming a nation of over qualified idiots, and that was in his thesis for Bachelor of Economics (which he attained despite that lampoon).
Next we'll have garbo's with a certificate III in Prophylaxis(sp), even bloody waiters need a qualification and I see there are retail certificates I, II and III.
Rant on :mad:

[silentC]

The nurses thing.... they go into that chosen career knowing about bad wages. Then chuck a hissy fit when they are in the job... whats with that?

You and I might think the job is extremely hard, but to the nurses, once you have done your training, I guess the job, like any, is like riding a bike. Like plumbers, no job is too hard, it is to me, but to them its easy.

Same goes with the nurses.
You're missing the point. It's not that nurses throw 'hissy fits', it's just the irony that we seem to be more prepared to pay big money for the things that don't really matter at the end of the day. What's more important than your health? Nothing! Without it, you can't enjoy all that other stuff that people are happy to pay for. I say give them more money.

[ndru]

...we seem to be more prepared to pay big money for the things that don't really matter at the end of the day.

Hmmm. What about:
- Medicare levy;
- Private health insurance;
- 30% subsidy on private health insurance;
- Federal and state taxes spent on public hospitals, clinics, rehabilitiations centers;
- PBS subsidised drugs;
- Workcover levy;
- Compulsory third party insurance;
- Charitable donations;
- Federal and state funding for medical education and research?

That's a LOT of money.

Then again, it is widely held that our health system is in "crisis" so I guess we really don't spend enough. :rolleyes:


I say give them more money.

My turn on the soapbox!

Last July, RNs employed by our Government won 16.5% more pay over the next 3 years, with 6% effective immediately on 1 July '04. A range of other non-salary conditions were also agreed to such as extending night shifts to 10 hours + a 2 hour "handover" period to reduce the chance of two shifts being worked in a 24 hour period by one employee. I believe other States are moving in the same direction. Its fair to say they are getting more!

Having said this $35/hour base pay does seem low considering the risks involved (contagious diseases, shiftwork, seeing death and suffering). I'm not surprised people prefer other vocations. I don't think our senior constables are much better off, either, and they risk being shot. :eek:

Out of all the groups employed by our state the least sympathy I have is for is teachers. Maybe its because my sister-in-law teacher is always in my ear with the teacher's lounge song about how hard they work and no-one appreciates them. It probably more because they get paid substantially more than cops or nurses for substantially less contact hours and I can't see the need for a risk premium. At the end of the day I guess its about comparative union power. BTW, I don't think teachers don't have a difficult job - I just don't understand why they're ahead of cops and nurses.

Sorry for hijacking your thread, gemi_babe. Good luck with the plumbing! Personally, I'd invest in a stilson and a hacksaw. ;)

[DanP]

I don't think our senior constables are much better off, either, and they risk being shot. :eek:

I am almost the top increment for a Senior Constable and I earn $28 an hour before allowances. $31 p/h with allowances going on last years pay. Enough to face someone with a gun? I think not. (I have done it, it's not nice)

The reason that you percieve that the nurses have a hissy fit is because you only ever hear about it when they are asking for more, during enterprise bargaining. Then you have to look like you've got holes in your socks or the govt won't give you any more.

Dan

[MathewA]

Mathew, Ive just noticed youre in Canada. I think in your country youll find that nurses get paid a whole lot more than they do here in Australia and New Zealand.
Nope in BC they start at about 22/hour and peak at 35/hour, and BC is the best or second best pay for nurses in Canukistan. Someone here said nurses start at 30/hour is that true.

[MathewA]

Gidday Nic,

- badly thought out rosters...often home from a late shift at 11.30pm and out the door for an early shift at 5.30 next morning. In most states not letting a worker get at least 8 hours continuous sleep between shifts is against the law.
- absurd nurse to patient ratios. One nurse looking after 5 patients in an ICU ward.
- being expected to lift heavy patients by herself. Oh yes the hospital has a great OHS policy that states that two nurses are required to lift a patient with the use of a lifting frame. Trouble is the staffing levels on a shift a so pitifully low assigning two nurses to lift a patient is impossible.
- antequated equipment. The hospital is too stingey to buy in equipment that reduces the risk of needle stick injuries when handling syringes and IV needles. My wife has had 3 needle stick injuries in the last 3 years......
- a base pay rate of circa $30 an hour. Pitiful for someone with a Masters degree and over 20 years of experience. If it wasnt for the penalty rates during the weekend my wife would have quit along time ago.
- often has to work with agency staff who receive no orientation before arriving at the hospital. My wife has to deal with her patient duties as well as continuously monitor 2-3 agency staff.

Starting to rant here but you get the general picture.
Why is she still there if its that bad? Is she looking for other work?

[MathewA]

I am almost the top increment for a Senior Constable and I earn $28 an hour before allowances. $31 p/h with allowances going on last years pay. Enough to face someone with a gun? I think not. (I have done it, it's not nice)

The reason that you percieve that the nurses have a hissy fit is because you only ever hear about it when they are asking for more, during enterprise bargaining. Then you have to look like you've got holes in your socks or the govt won't give you any more.

Dan
You'll like this one then. In the late 90s I looked at being a conservation officer here in British Columbia. At that time they were the best armed law enforcement officers. They could carry what ever side arm they deemed appropriate, 357, 45, 9mm, 10mm what ever they wanted. Regular cops were still restricted to using the useless 38 specials.

Starting pay was 12/hour and everyone you approach is armed with a high powered rifle and you're on your own out in the middle of nowhere - decided it wasn't for me.

[Sturdee]

Enough to face someone with a gun? I think not. (I have done it, it's not nice)



So have I mate, and yes staring into the shaking eyes of a drug crazy holding a sawn of shotgun at my stomach whilst robbing the money I was taking to the bank isn't nice.

No amount of money is worth that.


Peter.

[bitingmidge]

Regular cops were still restricted to using the useless 38 specials.

???

Bet they won all the knife-fights!

P
:D

[DanP]

Regular cops were still restricted to using the useless 38 specials.


We still use em. :mad: And still will be for some time yet, Mrs Chief doesn't like Semi Autos. :mad: :mad: :mad:



No amount of money is worth that.

Yep. At least I had the tools to answer the threat. And NO. I didn't shoot him, although I would have been justified in doing so.

Dan

[Grunt]

Having said this $35/hour base pay does seem low considering the risks involved (contagious diseases, shiftwork, seeing death and suffering).

The base pay in Victoria for a first year nurse full-time with a university degree is $17.40 an hour. After 5 years they'll get around $22 per hour. Casual rates go up to $35 an hour. Pretty poor wages really.

[silentC]

Hmmm. What about:
- Medicare levy;
- Private health insurance;
- 30% subsidy on private health insurance;
- Federal and state taxes spent on public hospitals, clinics, rehabilitiations centers;
- PBS subsidised drugs;
- Workcover levy;
- Compulsory third party insurance;
- Charitable donations;
- Federal and state funding for medical education and research?


Yes and we b!tch and moan about every cent of it. Then people complain because they have to wait 2 years for an operation. Meanwhile we happily fork out to get our dogs washed and our lawns mowed.

[Guy]

I'll add something to this I charge out for carpentry $40 hour it costs me $100 per week in fuel, $120 month in public liability Insurance, $100 a week in advertising , Mobile approx $30 add wear and tear to vechile and i estimate it costs me approx $300 a week before i have any income. I probably am productive for 60 -75% of the week the rest is doing quotes chasing up people who promised the cheque is in the mail so at the end of the week i can pay my mortgage and other bills.
When i dont have work it still costs me and i think i may as well throw that $300 out the window.
Fortunately for me i can fall back on to other work.

But what i think is so dumb is that Telstra charge $150 for a new cable run in your house, a sparky will charge the same but when i say $100 per point i get laughed at, had a pleasent argument with a woman a few weeks back. She reckond that sparkies know more about telephine cabling than I, i had to explain that i had spent near on 20years in the telecomms industry doing cabling and terminations of cables. Add to that my City and Guilds in electrical instalation ( im a sparky in the UK) Bsc in electrical &electronic engineering, Mba in Business Admin, now doing a Msc in Communications systems. She still insisted i knew nothing
Guy

[journeyman Mick]

Gemi,
buy yourself a pipe wrench (stillsons) and a pipe cutter. Then all you need to know to be a plumber is: Hot on the left, cold on the right, s##t flows down hill and pay day is Friday! :eek: :D Sorry to any plumbers out there, standard chippies joke about plumbers. ;)

Mick

[AlexS]

Gemi,
buy yourself a pipe wrench (stillsons) and a pipe cutter. Then all you need to know to be a plumber is: Hot on the left, cold on the right, s##t flows down hill and pay day is Friday! :eek: :D Sorry to any plumbers out there, standard chippies joke about plumbers. ;)

Mick
Good to see your sense of humour is still running well Mick.

Water comes in drips & drops
And sometimes in a bucket,
But when it's really p!ssing down
Hydrographers say...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
:Aaarg...
.
.
.
.....well, we'd better go & measure it."

[gemi_babe]

Just might have to take that advice Mick.

I never recieved that phone call an hour later... another nite without a shower, just a small bath and couldn't wash my hair.

I should go to Mitre 10 tomorrow and put the pipe cutter and the stillsons on the plumbers account and when he calls, tell him that I did his job for him :D

[Dean]

Charge them for your wasted time waiting for them :) Seems to be the latest trend. At the very least they could call you out of courtesy if they are not going to show up on time, or at all.

[Grunt]

At the very least they could call you out of courtesy if they are not going to show up on time, or at all.

Funniest post I've read in a long time. :D:D:D

[Dean]

Yep funny, but true. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :p :p

[gemi_babe]

Update: I never got that phone call yesterday....

Day 3, I ring at 830am... whats happening...

UMMMM.....

I told him to forget it!!!!

Has wasted 3 days of my time when it could of been fixed day 1!!!

Told him I will stick to the guys in Boyup Brook and wont bother about using local services again!!! Told him, thanks for the great service!!!

I might do up an invoice and charge him $60 for each day he wasted of my time and patience! NO I WILL do it!

:mad:

I spoke to a lady at the school this morning about him. She says, they are really slow then complain that Greenbushes don't support them HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I wonder why! total idiot!!!

ARGH!

[Grunt]

Pleased with the service then Kylie?

[gemi_babe]

Yeah wish I could get away with charging that much for that sort of service!

I should teach him a lesson!