Spray equipment ?

[Soren]

I have a GMC 40l compressor, and have finished spraying a fence, using a cheap spraygun. I set the pressure to about 100, and managed to spray for about 1 minute, before the compressor kicks in due to low pressure. I then had to wait about 1 - 2 minutes until the pressure built up again. PITA, as it was a trellis fence of about 30 metres long by 3 metres high. :(
I am not (although this would solve the problem) about to buy a bigger compressor, but I thought that maybe a gravity fed gun using lower pressure (according to the packaging) may eliminate some of the waiting, should I need to repeat such a job.

Any comments would be appreciated :confused:

[Harry72]

Why are you using such high pressure?
40psi at most even with a cheap gun!
The time it takes for the comp to cut in is more relavent to the size of its tank and the pressure your running 100psi is way to much, its OK for the comp to run conituosly so long as it keeps up enough flow to run the gun properly.

[Soren]

Unfortunately, at less than 80 odd psi, the gun would just spit out little blotches of paint - sort of pulsating :confused: .
I am VERY green when it comes to spraying, and as the compressor is at best an 8cfm unit, and I believe the gun requires between 6 - 8 cfm to operate, I was hoping that by switching to a gravity fed gun, which according to the box, only requires about 2 - 3 cfm to operate, I would be able to learn to also spray finish on furniture projects as well as the odd repainting of fences :o

[Harry72]

You'll find on cheap guns what the box say's and what really is are two very different things, probably written by the sales dept!

Possibly you have some sort of a leak in the gun causing the plusing, thread tape all the joins from the pot to the gun(the path the paint leads ...), also with cheap guns the nozzle doesnt sit in its seat very well(poor machine work or corrosion because of cheap materials)causing the venturi action to break(pluse).
To counter act this an increase in pressure is needed...

What I have done before is to spin the nozzle in a drill and use a fine file on it to get a nice flat seating area.

The nozzle lives under the aircap(the bit with the wings!)

Your 8cfm comp should run your gun, if not theres something wrong with it. If you were to paint a car where a conituous flow is critical too the finish quality the minimum is considered 10-12cfm.

I can only imagine how much overspray your genarating with 100psi!

[Soren]

Overspray :o
The 'stuff' I was spraying was Bunnings Walpamur Fence Finish, which in hindsight was probably not the right viscosity (ie too thick).

The gun I have is (again from Bunnings) a Tradeair Model TAR-SSG and the enclosed brochure and stamps on the side of the gun says S770. It supposedly has a 2mm fluid nozzle and has a material output of 345cc. Requires 50psi with an air consumption of 8.8 cfm.

I believe that an HVLP gravity fed gun requires only about 2 - 3 cfm and thus my question.

Will my current gun be any good for applying finishes to woodworking projects, taking into account the use of a GMC compressor ? :confused:

[MajorPanic]

Overspray :o
The 'stuff' I was spraying was Bunnings Walpamur Fence Finish, which in hindsight was probably not the right viscosity (ie too thick).

The gun I have is (again from Bunnings) a Tradeair Model TAR-SSG and the enclosed brochure and stamps on the side of the gun says S770. It supposedly has a 2mm fluid nozzle and has a material output of 345cc. Requires 50psi with an air consumption of 8.8 cfm.

I believe that an HVLP gravity fed gun requires only about 2 - 3 cfm and thus my question.

Will my current gun be any good for applying finishes to woodworking projects, taking into account the use of a GMC compressor ? :confused:
Hi ya,

S770 would be a Star gun & a 2mm fluid nozzel would be correct for a S770.
I've used a S770 for more than 5 years & it's fine for spraying lacquer.
Does it have a air adjustment knob at the base of the handle? If so this would confirm it as a Star gun.

[Dean]

I hope the S-770 works ok because i bought one as a backup the other day.
I believe the S770 is quite a good model (for the price anyway).

It should work fine with spray finishes on woodworking projects. I have mine running of a 24L 2HP compressor. It's ok for brief passes at 40-50 psi :)

[Dean]

Hi ya,

Does it have a air adjustment knob at the base of the handle? If so this would confirm it as a Star gun.


Mine does at least. As long as it performs like a star :D :D
I'm thinking of maybe buying one of those $35 touch up guns too with the small capacity container for the occassional bowl finishing spray. Just seems to right size for this task.

[Soren]

Hi ya,

.............. Does it have a air adjustment knob at the base of the handle? If so this would confirm it as a Star gun.


I believe it does, refer attached image

[MajorPanic]

I believe it does, refer attached image
I do beleive it is an early version of the S770 :D
So there should be no problems ;)

[Shane Watson]

Hi ya,

Does it have a air adjustment knob at the base of the handle? If so this would confirm it as a Star gun.



Hmmm I have two different model IWATA guns that have the air adjustment knob at the base of the handle.....Or am I only dreaming...will have to check on that tommorrow

[MajorPanic]

I hope the S-770 works ok because i bought one as a backup the other day.
I believe the S770 is quite a good model (for the price anyway).

It should work fine with spray finishes on woodworking projects. I have mine running of a 24L 2HP compressor. It's ok for brief passes at 40-50 psi :)
Hey Dean!

I set my regulator to 41PSI for the HVLP nug & the only time I change it is if I use the touch-up nug (6PSI).
For the 770 I wind the air adjustment all the way CLOSED & then pull the trigger while turning the air adjustment knob open. When the nug picks up the lacquer & gives a full spray patten I stop adjustment.
The air adjustment knob is only ⅓ open, if that. I reckon I'm spraying at about 15-18 PSI or so.

[Harry72]

"It supposedly has a 2mm fluid nozzle"
With that size you should be able to spray thick honey!

MP so the S-770 2mm will spray lacquer OK, I need a cheapy to tie me over until I replace my samson(RIP!)dam cant seem too find the parts to repair it yet.
Might even splashout and grab a binks or devilbiss one day.

[MajorPanic]

Hmmm I have two different model IWATA guns that have the air adjustment knob at the base of the handle.....Or am I only dreaming...will have to check on that tommorrow
But Shaneus,

Is S770 stamped on the handle of your nugs?

[Soren]

I do beleive it is an early version of the S770 :D
So there should be no problems ;)


MajorPanic

What do you mean, the spraygun was only purchased 9 days ago ? :confused:

[Shane Watson]

Nope they havn't..

http://www.anestiwata.com/PROD_IMAGES/W100-P.jpg

http://www.anestiwata.com/PROD_IMAGES/W400.jpg

[MajorPanic]

MP so the S-770 2mm will spray lacquer OK, I need a cheapy to tie me over until I replace my samson(RIP!)dam cant seem too find the parts to repair it yet.
Might even splashout and grab a binks or devilbiss one day.
Hi ya Harry,

I've used the S770 for years & it was fine for me.;)

Ask Shane about IWATA guns, they have a VERY GOOD reputation, if you want to go up-market. ;) :D

[Harry72]

"Hmmm I have two different model IWATA guns that have the air adjustment knob at the base of the handle.....Or am I only dreaming...will have to check on that tommorrow"
Most have an air adjustment on the lower part of the handle, even my samson has.

[MajorPanic]

MajorPanic

What do you mean, the spraygun was only purchased 9 days ago ? :confused:
Sorry Soren,

Where did 'purchased 9 days ago' come from? :confused:

[Shane Watson]

Most have an air adjustment on the lower part of the handle, even my samson has.


Yeah well, my workhorse IWATA (VX707) dosn't but my finish coat IWATA'S do

[Harry72]

Hi ya Harry,

I've used the S770 for years & it was fine for me.;)

Ask Shane about IWATA guns, they have a VERY GOOD reputation, if you want to go up-market. ;) :D
Yep I've use a iwata before nice guns, 2pac like a mirror no buff!

[MajorPanic]

Nope they havn't..

http://www.anestiwata.com/PROD_IMAGES/W100-P.jpg

http://www.anestiwata.com/PROD_IMAGES/W400.jpg
Thanks Shane!

Now kiddies these are BMW class spray nugs!;)
What we are talking about (S770) is a good Commodore quality nug! :D

[Soren]

I do beleive it is an early version of the S770 :D
So there should be no problems ;)


This is where the comment comes in, ie only purchased 9 days ago from B.....gs :confused:
I hope the gun will be OK for finish applications, with the 'less than perfect' compressor :o

[violincrafter]

Hi Soren,
I believe your issue is not the compressor nor the spray gun as being any problem. The pressure you mention is way to high firstly for most guns. The viscosity of the material your trying to spray is way too thick and therefore your trying to move thick material into a air borne mist that is spray painting.

You need to determine the composition of what your spraying in particular the solvent that dillutes the spray medium. For example if your usig auto acryl lac then thinners for that particular paint is required. If your using house paint that is water based then use water to thin the paint etc. Oil paint would have to be thinned using turps etc.

Your trying to transfer material that is wrongly thinned for spraying and this is the "poor" transfer and spattering of paint. This is where your going to burn your compressor out for it has to work like a "dog" moving liquid lead from the pot.

Always check if a particular paint in fact is recommended for spray applications.

Have fun! You have a reasonable set up but a very thick medium laboring your compressor.

http://www.ganet.org/dnr/p2ad/pblcations/paintbas.html

:o

[Harry72]

Nah Id say more like a Hyundai excel, the samson is more like the commy/falc range.
They all still get you from A to B!

[Soren]

Hi Soren,
I believe your issue is not the compressor nor the spray gun as being any problem. The pressure you mention is way to high firstly for most guns. The viscosity of the material your trying to spray is way too thick and therefore your trying to move thick material into a air borne mist that is spray painting.............

I was hoping that was the case, and I now have a 'viscosity' cup which "should" enable me in thinning the paint appropriately.
My main question is still outstanding however, in that: "is an HVLP gravity gun better for the compressor I have (8cfm GMC) ?"

I really appreciate all the responses received so far :o :o

[Harry72]

Dont bother with them unless you just intend to paint stuff where a nice finish isnt needed.
Still it wont hurt to have both types...

Is this the fastest growing thread or what!!!

[Harry72]

viscosity' cup, I use a stick!

[Soren]

viscosity' cup, I use a stick!

ROFLMAO

How do you time your stick ? :D

[violincrafter]

The diff between the guns are in the hands of the operator and like all things its a matter of personal preference. I like suction feed guns and also gravity HVLP types. Each has its benefits and probs. They arnt that pricey either depending on brand names. The suction types leave a little paint in the pot and this is to leave any particles there. But then again if paint is filtered there should be no particles there in the first place but then again<<<what if? A gravity gun will clog right away if there is poor shop practice or other reasons. Gravity also poses a problem with poor seals after time. As with all things liquid via gravity likes to find its way into many places it can escape. To answer your question try both and see which you like the best without any spills.

Your compressor should handle both and of course the gravity feed HVLP will be easier on the unit but technique will play an important role as will the seals be and hopefully no paint consolidation settles at the bottom or should I say at the top to require a clean of this type of gun and cause dreadfull splattering and clogging early in the work :( . Gravity wants things to settle and find points of exit.

A gravity gun seems like a waste of money for fence painting as is a good arnold suction gun! :eek:

[Dean]

The air adjustment knob is only ⅓ open, if that. I reckon I'm spraying at about 15-18 PSI or so.


WOW :eek:
Maybe that is the trick to "Major-quality" finishes.
I'll give it a try :D

[Soren]

..........Your compressor should handle both and of course the gravity feed HVLP will be easier on the unit but technique will play an important role as will the seals be ..............

A gravity gun seems like a waste of money for fence painting as is a good arnold suction gun! :eek:

I just checked the IWATA site, and that suggests that the HVLP is actually requiring minimum of 9 cfm, whereas the suction gun only requires 5-10 cfm ?

When I was at Supercheap at Ringwood the other day, they had an "HVLP" gun for $99 which supposedly only needed between 3 - 4 CFM to run !! is that worth it, to 'save' the compressor ?
:confused:

[turbo]

"MP so the S-770 2mm will spray lacquer OK, I need a cheapy to tie me over until I replace my samson(RIP!)dam cant seem too find the parts to repair it yet.

the star gun will suffice for spraying lacquer mate , could even get away with putting a larger nozzle , cap and needle in for spraying sealers etc , or go the reverse and have a smaller setup for colouring up or toning etc.

either way it will do the job for the home handyman.


ps - what do u need for ol' smason , i might have a few spare bits and peices from a couple of junk pile guns at work.

let me know and i will have a look.

[johnno402002]

ROFLMAO

How do you time your stick ? :D
I use a stick too, the flat one I use to stir the paint. Dip the stick into the paint, pull it out. Watch how far away from the end of the stick the paint breaks from a solid stream into droplets. The closer to the stick, the thinner the paint. Suprisingly sensitive.

regards,

John

[Shane Watson]

I use a stick as well....Never use a viscosity cup & the quality of finish was never compromised. But once you've mixed several thousand litres you get to know.....

[Harry72]

Yup stick yer paint!
Soren, dip the paint stick in and hold it out of the paint about 150mm, wait about 2 seconds then look how far the paint breaks into droplets(like Johnno said)
Depending how much paint your stick can hold on its surface is how much time you've got to judge it, ie use a stick with as much surface area as possible... a series of small holes drilled in you stick will increase the amount of time you can judge it for.

Denpending on what paint your using, with enamel and a 1.8mm nozzle 100mm is about right break distance, with poly and a 1.4mm nozzle go about 80mm or with 1.8-2.0mm nozzle you want about 100-120mm.
With the few goes I've had with pre-cat lac 1.4 nozzle 60-80mm, 1.8 nozzle 80-100mm
This is for a 10-20% thinning ratio.
See the pattern generating here... smaller the nozzle thinner you want the paint, if the paint needs to go on thick dont use a small nozzle(enamel/poly final coats).

Turbo, I need the outer sleave that the paint needle and spring assembley sits in, dunno what its called lost the parts# sheet years ago... and cant find one anywhere which is a bit funny, seeming you can still buy S90's new!

[Soren]

Thanks for that Harry72
I'll print it out and try my luck :D

[turbo]

harry

i know what your referring to , i will look in the spares tomorrow.

cheers

andrew

[violincrafter]

Hi Folks,

Anyway just wanted to drop a line on the subject of spray equipment. I have been using both the touch up gun and the HVLP Gravity gun and let me tell you the finish is SUPERB to say the least. Ive adjusted the HVLP for optimum performance and it really does reduce overspray and transfers more of the material to the work.

I have a 2.5hp 40ltr compressor that handles it quiet well without to many dramas. As a fact I tried a simple experiment to determine how if any strain is placed on the compressor. First I attached the touch up gun an let it "shoot" a test panel to see the amount of time when the compressor reaches the cut in point of 85 psi and working to 115 psi factory settings. The touch up sprayed for 28 seconds to reach 85 psi and the HVLP gun took 26 seconds of continual spraying. There was little difference between the two except the HVLP gravity had less overspray (in the air) than did the touch up gun.

I like both of them and thus far have given excellent results. The touch up has its advantages owing to work type and space as the gravity HVLP is slightly bigger and uses a pressure guage at its bottom making it longer with the hose attached.

Practice makes perfect and am very satisfied with the results.

[Asquared]

Evenin' All, I am also new to spraying and have been learning by trial and error. I too have a little GMC compressor (only cost $100) and I think it is good for about 5cfm. And I bought the el cheapo spray outfit from Bunnings that include a spray gun (1.8mm), blower, degreaser gun, tire inflator etc all for about $35! I then proceeded to spray a sunburst lacquer finish onto an electric guitar and the results were great (much to my surprise). Being small item and using only short bursts so the comp had no problems keeping up.

I have since bought a much better although still inexpensive spray kit that includes two guns both gravity feed: a 1.4mm regular gun and a 1.0mm touch-up gun. So far only used the little fella and it is working well. I use 35 - 40 psi and am wondering if that is too much. I tend to turn the feed control right down and use a very narrow fan, almost no fan at all. Still I seem to get a lot of overspray and the spray booth (garage) fills with a lacquer cloud.

I would love to have a general reference on the ins and outs of spraying but I haven't found anything on the web. Can anyione direct me to a basic spray painting reference?
Asquared

[violincrafter]

Hi Mr Asquared,

Theres not a great deal of info out there on this topic. However there are some "honky doree" forums that deal in spray painting in general.

The one I shall post the link herewith is in fact for automotive hot rods! Yes hot RODS! Well your probably thinkin what the hell has this got to do with woodworking? Well to some not much but to others -----" A whole lotta Rosie"! lol.

My jargon by no means is humour but rather a keen eye for detailing. If one can master the gleam and shine of a hotrod for show, then timber finishing would also result in this grand piano shine.

This site has lots of information on 2 pacs, enamel, acrylic lacquer, just to mention a few. If one can master a perfect finish in auto design then timber finishing would also be accomplished except for substrate coating and undercoat procedures.

Handling the spray gun incorrectly will give the same sort of results finishing auto or dining room furniture. Auto painting of which is "fun" will showw how good a spray painter you really are. I get a mirror finish without any buffing what so ever.

http://www.hotrodders.com/f19


Have fun reading this link. Its a good spray painters reference no matter what you intend on painting.

Have fun!!!

violincrafter

[Asquared]

Violincrafter, Thanks for the tip. Had a quick look and there is a lot there. As one of my loves is making guitars - electrics so far - , the "hotrod" paint jobs has some relevance!

Cheers
AA

[AshleyM]

Hi Violincrafter,
What make spray guns are you using?
Ash

[violincrafter]

Hi Folks!
I have used a couple of guns that work fine. The touch up gun is a trade air unit and this one (for me) performs very well and delivers a very fine atomization. The other gun is a high volume low pressure gravity feed gun from supercheap auto shop. It has various adjusters that need to be fine tuned but after a feww test patterns works very well also.

This one does have reduced overspray in the surrounding environment.

Heres a pic of both of them:-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/stevensho/sprayguns.jpg

As I mentioned earlier I did a test to see the difference between the 2. I may not have explained it fully but I tried the following:-

after the compressor reached its full tank capacity ( 40 ltrs at 115 psi) I used both guns to see how they differ in taxing the compressor.

There was very little difference between the gravity HVLP and suction touch up gun.

The touch up went for 28 seconds continuously before it taxed the comp down to the 85 psi cut in point.

The HVLP gun was allowed to work continuosly with a full tank and went for 26 second of continual spraying to tax the compressor to go down to 85 psi and then cuts in to refil the tank.

In my opinion both worked similar working times but HVLP had less overspray. This in turn makes it more environmentally friendly no matter what paint you use but especially 2 pacs. Thus gravity is essential owing to isocyanites in overspay regulations.

I am going to get a 770 gun but after being in a paint shop the other week it was pointed out that there are guns that are copies of the star 770 as in bunnings 770 gun.

The proprietor of a auto body shop sells the same thing but another generic and this also is a good gun and leaves a factory in asia from the back door export dispatch as the star 770 from the front in gloss advertising boxed package. As far as the carba tec HVLP unit its the same as the unit I have but mine comes with extra bottle, seals and grommets, extra nozzle and tip, and blow moulded storage box.

I know people will argue the point, but my friend at the auto paint shop is good enough advise for me. He orders them and I believe his advice.

Anyway each to their own but at the end of the day as another professional painter said to me long ago , " Its the spraypainter and his technique that makes or breaks the job". Runs will happen even with a $10000000.00 gun. As with "fish eyes, orange peel effect, and blushing in poor workshop conditions". Crazing and other problems are a result of poor workshop temperatures as is humidity blistering just to mention a few.

Anyway thats my opinion but am very happy with these guns. :D

Ps I have made a 1 litre pot from brass for the touch up gun to make it work even further. Two touch up guns for the price of one! Suits me fine ! I've achieved better results than any panel shop can do and I dont need to convince myself about it ! lol

PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT AS WITH TEST RESULTS :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D NO TWO IF'S About IT!!!!!


Here it is :_


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/stevensho/touchup.jpg

[Richardwoodhead]

Asquared, a couple of useful links..... On Major Panics rcommendation I contacted Mirotone re their Lacquer finishes (via the website). They rsponded with heaps of info on spraying technique etc... Worthwhile contacting...

http://www.ganet.org/dnr/p2ad/pblcations/paintbas.html
http://www.mirotone.com.au/locat.htm

Richard

[violincrafter]

Although this is not exactly a woodworkers finish it still holds true to the experience of the spraypainter AND NOT THE EQUIPMENT! :mad:

Here is some photos of a job done by "professionals" that use industry professional equipment LOL :mad:

This job had to be worked back to the original substrate and refinished by myself to get a proper result. It is well known that this shop fixes PRESTIGE AND NEW CARS (LOL not mentioning any names but lol to those who get this sort of a job,,,it could be YOU!!! ) :p :p :p :p

I have repaired this and the finish,,,,,well just fab using my spray guns. These guys DO USE the "top guns" but its just in the hands of someone that doesnt use the correct procedures! Whats good about using a $800.00 spray gun if this happens????????? :eek:


Heres the photos of a professionals work:- :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/stevensho/fault1.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/stevensho/fault.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/stevensho/fault8.jpg




This is my spray gun and my job is "picture perfect" as is my work!
Anyway heres the photos of a good gun in a good painter (Guaranteed for LIFE!!!):- So dont believe that by getting an expensive gun will make you professional,,,oooooops maybe it does like the photos above!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/stevensho/gun2.jpg

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D ;) ;) ;)

[Shane Watson]

Geez, don't talk yaself up too much! we might start to believe you are that good ;)


No gun is good in the hands of someone that has bad technique, fullstop....

Someone with good technique and experience can pick up any gun and make a good finish.

[echnidna]

Geez, don't talk yaself up too much! we might start to believe you are that good ;)


No gun is good in the hands of someone that has bad technique, fullstop....

Someone with good technique and experience can pick up any gun and make a good finish.

That applies to most woodie tools & machines :) :)

[Richardwoodhead]

MajorPanic, Shane, Echidna, Violincrafter, anybody..... Feedback appreciated...

I rate a good spray finish as one the quickest and "best" available. After seeing the quality of finish achieved by local woodworkers I invested big $$$$'s in setting up a spray booth & top of the line Iwata 200 gun with pressure pot with in-line regulator, filter, water catch, etc. So you'd think after all this I'd be doing great spray jobs. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it don't.

After fiddling with all the gun settings and air pressure, I still often get an orange peel effect. And the gun seems to spray "droplets" rather than a nice fine mist. I've upped the air and reduced the fluid, but I still get fine droplets. If I "drown" the surface (lacquer) it eventually flows together and I can get a reasonable finish. But I'm sure this isn't right.

I'm about to head into town with a couple of cartons of beer, go to the local car repair spray painter and beg for a couple of hours of hands-on training.

Richard

[MajorPanic]

MajorPanic, Shane, Echidna, Violincrafter, anybody..... Feedback appreciated...

I rate a good spray finish as one the quickest and "best" available. After seeing the quality of finish achieved by local woodworkers I invested big $$$$'s in setting up a spray booth & top of the line Iwata 200 gun with pressure pot with in-line regulator, filter, water catch, etc. So you'd think after all this I'd be doing great spray jobs. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it don't.

After fiddling with all the gun settings and air pressure, I still often get an orange peel effect. And the gun seems to spray "droplets" rather than a nice fine mist. I've upped the air and reduced the fluid, but I still get fine droplets. If I "drown" the surface (lacquer) it eventually flows together and I can get a reasonable finish. But I'm sure this isn't right.

I'm about to head into town with a couple of cartons of beer, go to the local car repair spray painter and beg for a couple of hours of hands-on training.

Richard
Hey Richard,

Forget the local car repairer, find yourself a french polisher or a furniture restorer. If he dosen't spray finish he WILL know somebody who does.

[violincrafter]

Ive got some scanned images of pages from a 103 page book entitled the complete refinisher third edition Dulux Australia.

It outlines step by step possible cures and remedies for most common problems associated with spray painting. Its good and handy for any spray painter.

If orange peel is a problem then here is the associated pages. Splattering from the gun indicates a damaged needle or packing piece or some times incorrect easing of by the operator at the gun. This is only true if its on the trigger release not consistently. You should shoot past the panel before opening or releasing the trigger and then continue with overlapping the next stroke of paint. This is sometimes due to a sudden shutoff at the needle when vacuum and pressure is suddenly halted and the nozzle mist is reverted back to large droplets that have no where to go but condense into immediate splatter. Sort of like turning of the air ABRUPTLY and the paint becomes liquid splatter (unatomised state of momentary starvation, zero pressure zero vacuum result large unassisted zero atomized paint!!!!). :cool:



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/stevensho/airhorn.jpg





If it splatters throughout the job then you have a partially clogged nozzle or damaged or bent needle or even corroded microscopically mating surfaces between needle and air horn mismatch. There is also the simplest explanation that dirt or incorrect viscosity is the problem.

If the gun is started well before the job then splatter would be not a problem on the work but a good clean gun wont do this!!!(and or correct technique) :D Nor should the job continue until rectifying the fault. :cool: :cool:

Release and start the trigger gradually and vacuum and air pressure will syphon the paint SMMMMMOOOOOOTHLY without sharp vacuum drop or abruptly starving the paint on final shutdown and unatomized paint as a splatter of poor technique.

Heres the pics of some usefull info from the Complete refinisher:-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/stevensho/orange.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/stevensho/orange1.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/stevensho/orange2.jpg


cheers

[AshleyM]

Hi Violincrafter
Do you remember where you got the book from? It looks very good. Might be a hnady reference to keep.
Ash

[violincrafter]

Ashley I got that from Dulux Australia and it dates back to Feb 1979!! I have given them a call recently to see if they have a new update version but the tech guy said they dont print it anymore. However dulux has changed there name I think which a auto paint shop can advise on.

I have a number for victoria 132424 which was given to me. You could try but as I said they dont print it any more.

However there is some good news however!

Heres the index:- a scanned image

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/stevensho/dulonindex.jpg

Have a look at it and I could try and post some of it for reference only!

I cant do all of it because the FILE size!

And the time to scan it! lol

But some of it I can do!

cheers :)

Oh before I forget this ones for Mr Major:-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/stevensho/major.gif

[Richardwoodhead]

violincrafter, thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated.

Major, I managed to line up the finisher / polisher from one of the local furniture galleries to come around and provide some hands-on lessons when I'm ready for my next spray job. Hopefully this will help. Just by talking on the phone, it sounds like my air setting at the gun was too low..

Richard

[AshleyM]

Pages 92 & 93 would be great if possible. Thanks in advance
Ash

[violincrafter]

Im working on a PDF file and so far 6 pages LOL. The file is 541 kbs!!!!
I dont know of how I could post it considering that file size is to big for most and not sure how to post it at photobucket. Its max is 250 kb's.

Wow what a lot of fiddling to get pages scanned! lol :( :( :confused: :confused: :( :( :)

[MajorPanic]

Dead set, you bloks are hopeless!!!

What does Dulux have to do with spraying Lacquer??

Paint & lacquer are totally different in spraying techniques!

You have an Professional you can ask any time you need an answer.

Shane Watson is a qualified professional in the finishing field!! He is only too happy to help.

If ya want a troubleshooting guide HERE (http://www.majorpanic.com/images/woodwork/BB/Troubleshooting%20Spray%20Finishing.pdf) is one I did up from a book called "Spray Finishing" by Andy Charron - Taunton Press.

[violincrafter]

Thanks Mr Major,
Good PDF reference! Saves some time on scanning the same stuff!

Is that from your WEB SITE?

[Harry72]

Dead set, you bloks are hopeless!!!

What does Dulux have to do with spraying Lacquer??

Paint & lacquer are totally different in spraying techniques!


There are little differences not too much IMHO, but get those little differences wrong and it'll kill the finish.(automotive and wood)
Its all paint.
Also depends on what you define which is paint and which is lacquer, cars used to be sprayed with lacquer in the old days or in the backyard... its only since the lazy mans advent of 2pac that things have changed.
If your talking enamel yeah its way different and a dam sight harder to get a nice finish although to spray poly nice its treated the same, Ive always thought that if you can master enamel can do any spray finish.
Automotive acyrlic and what I know of lac have the same techinque to spray... except one has solids in it.



This is sometimes due to a sudden shutoff at the needle when vacuum and pressure is suddenly halted and the nozzle mist is reverted back to large droplets that have no where to go but condense into immediate splatter
Sorry if Im stating the obivous but,
That can be avoided very easily, its called a 2 stage trigger which every gun I've ever handled has. Air flow should not stop from start to finish of the whole spray job, if it does your letting the trigger go to far shut or you've over adjusted/jammed the needle open.

I also noticed a comment about a good spray painter can get a good finish with any gun... betcha I got a gun that no-one can get a nice finish with!

[violincrafter]

Harry your absolutely right! There are some spray guns that are really good for only fence painting! But I think some other guns have come a long way and at the end of the day are clones of others. :D

As with the 2 stage its correct but I tried to figure out how a gun could splatter? Mine dont but if it did , then i would try some theory on that problem. As i mentioned all good spray techniques is to be sort of gentle and start the trigger,,,,before the job and release it slowly after passing the target panel. 40 -45 psi on a suction gun is a fairly steady stream of paint dissipation and if the trigger is released abruptly it will force the needle to push a small quantity of paint via the nozzle out by centrifical pressure and the air horn has collapsed the vacuum of which its delivered.

My guns dont do that, but maybe a gun with 2.0 mm for lac may be more pronounced.

Oh well I guess my guns are good because so far TOUCH WOOD they work fine without a problem but when the needle may wear out and the jet then thats a different story. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[MajorPanic]

There are little differences not too much IMHO, but get those little differences wrong and it'll kill the finish.(automotive and wood)
Its all paint.
??

[AshleyM]

Violincrafter
If you want you could send it to me as a pm. I think this will get around the problem??

If not I can pm you with my email address and you could send it there.

Regards

Ash

[violincrafter]

Hi Woodies,
Sorry on my behalf, I did go a little off stray by talking of an auto paint situation problem. My inference was simply to show that the equipment used sometimes means very little if the preparation or technique is not performed well. many problems associated with timber finishes are also applicable to auto faults, eg RUNS SAG Blooming, Humidity blistering, solvent pop, crazing, cracking,,,,,sounds familiar? yes they happen with both mediums but AUTO Finishing makes or breaks any spray painter and if you can master this,,,,then timber is simpler but a different approach as any one can understand. Try finishing a car to a mirror reflective showroom shine!!! For me timber is well below the knowledge of auto finishing and you probably WILL dispute this but thats because that person doesnt know the difficulty and expertise of an auto REFINISHER!

I understand the difference between auto finishing and timber finishing. But as we are well aware any small minute fault in auto paint can show up 1000 times as much as timber finish. A spray painter has to be very good when finishing a car as it is a fairly high investment and timber finish is a little more forgiving.

My inference is to reinforce that whats the use of having state of the art equipment if the preliminary preparation is lacking. There is a little bit more involved with preparing and finishing a car for showroom condition than is a furniture piece. Still timber is very nice but is easier to apply paint and years ago brushing was very well accepted. A car would look appauling if brushed using high gloss finishes. :)

[Shane Watson]

so what your saying is an auto refinisher is better than a furniture refinisher? Couldn't disagree more, and I've sprayed both (auto & furniture) including off the gun
mirror reflective showroom shine!!!
Several state and national awards for best kitchen & bathroom finish is kinda testiment, all off the gun full gloss piano finish.

And whats the difference between
wood finishing &
timber finishing? last time I looked wood was timber, but lumber well thats different ;)

[violincrafter]

Cars are more challenging in my opinion!

[Harry72]

??
The basic differences between the actual spraying of wood and cars with the same type of paint... metal doesnt soak up paint and wood can bleed/taint into the finish, the shape of a car is harder to keep the gun parallel to the surface(unless its unusualy shaped furinture), wooden items tend to have more sharp internal corners... list goes on and on and on!
Gun settings differnces, not any IMHO
The main differences are in the prep job before spraying, I've found acrylic paints for wood tend to fill better than car acrylic so the prep sanding needs to be way better on a car... theres no grain on a car to hide, not saying you cant do fine prep job on wood tho!
(this is why they invented automotive 2pac's as they fill better, less sanding to prep and finish/polish)
I prefer to spray enamel or poly, much less arm work sanding... but easier to get wrong in the gun techinque.

The worst difference is in the hip pocket, get car paint badly wrong and its a monumental job to fix labour wise not to mention the price of most car paints.(PPG or HOC is hellishly expensive stuff to mess up... $1k+ per ltr)

[echnidna]

And whats the difference between
Quote:
wood finishing
&
Quote:
timber finishing

Wood is round on the outside and covered with bark.
Timber is the inside of the wood with (generally) square corners
UNLESS
The timber has been made round again in a lathe when it is still timber.

Lumber is when you bean some twit with a lump of timber. (Wood will do in an emergency) :D :D :D :D

[violincrafter]

Sorry WOODIES! I shouldnt of brought the auto painting issue into the forum. This is for wood lovers! I apologize if I offended anyone especially Mr Shane Watson!

He loves his wood as we all do! Right ON Boss!

Oh and before we misunderstand Mr Watsons statement on wood and timbre that was my fault! I wasnt sure what he meant but after reading my post I MADE A TYPO ERROR! Since his post I edited it because I was typing so fast I made an error in the initial post! SORRY!

Damn never make a good word processor lol !! :mad:

Lets forget about cars and lets get back to our love of timbre!

It's very nice stuff that timbre!

I like mirror shine kitchens too and my WIFE wow she would really love a kitchen like that!

Sorry Woodies! I really have to get some sheoak timbre its got good grain! Incidently I saw a book today and gee it looks like European Plane tree that has a similar grain. Thats nice aint it!!!

Have fun!!!! Woodies and borers lol..
I know I am! :D :D :D :D

[Shane Watson]

Don't apologise for having an opinion! Hell I have often referred to auto refinishing over the years in these forums. I think the two have a close affiliation and each trade can learn off each other! Its certainly helped me ;)

Oh, and you never offended me, I just have a different view and experiences :eek:

I knew your statment about wood and timber was a mistake, hence my reply was tounge in check ;)

Cheers,

oh & for the record, it was not me that closed this thread. :eek: ;) :D :p

[ubeaut]

Any furniture finisher worth his salts could finish a car better than most auto finisher, most auto finishers couldn't get a decent finish on a piece of furniture if their life depended on it. There are exceptions to the rule, but not many.

I didn't close it either. :D Musta bin the woodturner, who I would back against any auto spray painter any day in a finishing competition.