Worlds Greatest Ever Civilisation

[namtrak]

Reading the to and fro-ing between ourselves and the hystericans got me to thinking about something Bill Clinton said when he came into power. I remember him saying something along the lines of "It is an honour to be leading the greatest country in the history of mankind", now he may know how to smoke his cigar but I reckon he's got a misunderstanding of world history.

I figure that the yanks have held sway really since WWI - about 90 years. Their landmass amounts to less than 10% of the planet, they own all the guns and money, and they have about 2% of the worlds population. Would that make them the greatest civilization in the history of mankind?

I think the Romans maybe, or the Greeks and Alexander, Incas, British Empire through the Industrial revolution all may challenge that argument.

Any takers?

[echnidna]

nope

[Gumby]

Nope, none of the above. The greatest are the Orange People, led by George Lewin. No contest - we win. :D

[craigb]

The greatest are the Orange People, led by George Lewin.

I thought Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh was the leader of the Orange People :confused:

[Wongo]

The Chinese without a doubt

[Termite]

The Chinese without a doubt
A totally unbiased opinion of course. :D

[silentC]

I figure that the yanks have held sway really since WWI - about 90 years
Not even that long. Prior to their entry into WWII, the yanks didn't play a very big part in world politics and didn't even have much of a military. They built all of that up to fight the Japs and Hitler and then after the war looked around and thought, hey this is a pretty big stick we've got here now, let's wave it.

[Wongo]

A totally unbiased opinion of course. :D

Not wrong.

[simon c]

Not even that long. Prior to their entry into WWII, the yanks didn't play a very big part in world politics and didn't even have much of a military. They built all of that up to fight the Japs and Hitler and then after the war looked around and thought, hey this is a pretty big stick we've got here now, let's wave it.
I agree. I think Britain handed over the "role" after WWII.

[Iain]

The Scots, who even built a scaled down version of the Great Wall of China to keep the poms out, also invented TV, haggis, caber tossing, kilts so men didn't have to iron, golf, shetland ponies, scotch, the toilet seat 'with the hole', and the list goes on.
Sorry Wongo, see your spring roll and raise you a single malt :D :D

[simon c]

The Scots, who even built a scaled down version of the Great Wall of China to keep the poms out

Too much single malt there Iain, ;)
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Hadrian%27s%20Wall

[echnidna]

The Scots, who ... invented ... kilts so men didn't have to iron,
:D :D
I thought Kilts were invented to speed up the rape, pillage plunder bit.... :D :D :D

[Grunt]

I thought Kilts were invented to speed up the rape, pillage plunder bit....


Yup, so much easier for them Vikings to rape and pillage the Scots when they didn't have pull the knickers down.

[silentC]

They also invented the bagpipes and that one feat alone obliterates any brownie points they might have accrued throughout history, including their general belligerence towards the English ;)

I saw a bloke playing the bagpipes on TV the other day. His whole neck was blowing out like a frog's throat. Never seen anything like it. It can't be natural.

[namtrak]

I thought Kilts were invented to speed up the rape, pillage plunder bit.... :D :D :D


Yeh the scotsmen figured it would make it easier for the foreign raiders to gain access to their spoils.

:)

[Wongo]

The Scots, who even built a scaled down version of the Great Wall of China to keep the poms out, also invented TV, haggis, caber tossing, kilts so men didn't have to iron, golf, shetland ponies, scotch, the toilet seat 'with the hole', and the list goes on.
Sorry Wongo, see your spring roll and raise you a single malt :D :D

Iain what about our inventions like paper, printing, compass, gun power (for good use), noodles, fried ice cream and all that crap? :cool:

[silentC]

Yeah, but apart from all that, what have the Chinese ever done for us?

(Sorry Wongo, Monty Python reference ;) )

[Wongo]

Yeah, but apart from all that, what have the Chinese ever done for us?

(Sorry Wongo, Monty Python reference ;) )

Peking duck :D

[silentC]

Why do these conversations always come back to pancakes? :D

[Gumby]

You've all forgotten about the best of all.
Football, meat pies, BBQ's, kangaroos, Holden cars, Kylie Minogue..........it's right under your nose (or feet in fact) .
I rest my case. :)

[Soren]

Have to agree with Gumby :D :D
OZ has to be the greatest place on earth :D :D

[Wongo]

Dont forget to mention Triton people. :rolleyes:

[MathewA]

Didn't the Romans build the walls to keep the scots out.




The Scots, who even built a scaled down version of the Great Wall of China to keep the poms out, also invented TV, haggis, caber tossing, kilts so men didn't have to iron, golf, shetland ponies, scotch, the toilet seat 'with the hole', and the list goes on.
Sorry Wongo, see your spring roll and raise you a single malt :D :D

[Sturdee]

It would be the Holy Roman Empire under Charlegmaine during the 800's. :D


Peter.

[Pete J]

Its hard to beat the Brits for the depth and breadth of the British Empire - - substantial occupation in every continent in the world.

[echnidna]

Yeah, but apart from all that, what have the Chinese ever done for us?
(Sorry Wongo, Monty Python reference ;) )

Found out that cats are very nice animals...
.. to eat.
Viv La Dim Sim :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Iain]

Thjought you were going to suggest Timboon, cheese, crackers and Bob, what else does a forward thinking civilisation need :D

[Christopha]

The poll asks for a "civilisation" not an empire.
methinks there is a big difference..... in the case of this poll I reckon that gets rid of the Yanks and the poms for starters! The Chinese certainly were a civilisation in their own right. The Incas also and you could say the same for the Aztecs, certainly the Egyptians, the Greeks, the Japanese and many others. There have been many cicvilisations over the millenia but the Poms and especially the yanks just don't make it.

[fxst]

I voted for the acient egyptians as they were an old civilization when the greeks where beginning to form a city states

[Wongo]

Found out that cats are very nice animals...
.. to eat.
Viv La Dim Sim :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Bob don’t forget mate, a lot of ginger.


It is so great to have made an impact on someone’s life.

[Wongo]

The poll asks for a "civilisation" not an empire.
methinks there is a big difference..... in the case of this poll I reckon that gets rid of the Yanks and the poms for starters! The Chinese certainly were a civilisation in their own right. The Incas also and you could say the same for the Aztecs, certainly the Egyptians, the Greeks, the Japanese and many others. There have been many cicvilisations over the millenia but the Poms and especially the yanks just don't make it.


Christopha, I agree but please not the Japanese. They are not a civilisation.

Give me a bloody break please.

[Iain]

and garlic, viva la yum cha :D :D :D
which I must do again soon, Little Bourke St, another ancient civilisation rediscovered :D :D

[Zed]

I would like to take a serious tack here (for once).

In my opinion the greatest civilization was that of the American native Indians, over 200 diff tribes living in relative harmony! they had equality between the sexes, inter tribal govts, respect for th elder, little or no diseases, healthy lifestyles, no obesity or fast food, no expansion policy or "savage land stealing policys", a sustainable environmental policy that did not destroy any land or denude any part of the place to the point where the env. was damaged and only fought minor skirmishes amongst eachother, even to the point where only the participants of the skirmishes were the only ones killed. of course they had raiding parties to get wives and horses etc but none of this compared to any of white/yellow/arab mans 'civilized god/cultural fearing actions'

then along came some white f*ck along with his colds, flus, rats, guns, alcohol and greed and screwed the whole joint up in less than 200 yrs. god bless america.
say goodbye to the passenger pigeon, the buffalo and the puma and god knows what else - look at the joint now - dontcha love the atomic bomb ? eh ? toxic waste - delicious!, oil - love it! etc etc...

the indians even coined a phrase that went something like this : "Only after the last tree has been felled, the last buffalo has been eaten and the last river has been drained will the white man realise that you cannot eat money!"

they even had a gunja pipe!!!

I vote for them.

[craigb]

Seems to me that you could say all of that about our own blackfellas too Zed.

[Zed]

Seems to me that you could say all of that about our own blackfellas too Zed.


yes you could. but they didnt have gunga or embasies with each other - therfore you cant call 'em a civilization - they were truely stone age folk.

[Iain]

The only civilisation that had not discovered the wheel............

[craigb]

civilization (sîv´e-lî-zâ´shen) noun
1. An advanced state of intellectual, cultural, and material development in human society, marked by progress in the arts and sciences, the extensive use of writing, and the appearance of complex political and social institutions.
2. The type of culture and society developed by a particular nation or region or in a particular epoch: Mayan civilization; the civilization of ancient Rome.
3. The act or process of civilizing or reaching a civilized state.
4. Cultural or intellectual refinement; good taste.
5. Modern society with its conveniences: returned to civilization after camping in the mountains.

Did the North American indians have writing?
The blackfellas didn't.

[silentC]

Actually, I believe that various American Indian tribes fought long and bloody wars with each other for various reasons.

When I think 'civilisation' I'm thinking a vast collective organisational structure doing things for the good (in their belief) of the people, rather than every man (or woman) for him (or her) (don't you start that again, Stan) self. It's in that sort of environment that the things people think of as belonging to civilisation can take root. Stuff like science, invention, art, philosophy, orgies.

I know that a lot of more primitive cultures had these things too but they were part of the day to day life. Only somewhere like Ancient Greece could civilisation support all these geezers in bathrobes and sandals wandering around having dialogues with each other. Only in Ancient Rome could you round up enough slaves with your military to build viaducts and roads to span a continent.

My vote went to the Roman Empire because they probably changed the face of the globe and had more impact in their time than anyone else before or since. Next time you turn on a tap, or walk down a road, or wear a toga to an orgy, think of the Romans.

[Zed]

My vote went to the Roman Empire because they probably changed the face of the globe and had more impact in their time than anyone else before or since. Next time you turn on a tap, or walk down a road, or wear a toga to an orgy, think of the Romans.


I (would like to) vote for the american indians ofr exactly the opposite reasons.

[silentC]

OK, have fun living in your teepee and riding your horse to work next week. :p

[Zed]

it woudl beat sittin in an office all friggin day!

[silentC]

Now that I agree with.

[simon c]

Encyclopedia definition of a civilisation:
What makes a civilization? In the technical sense, a civilization is a complex society. It is distinguished from simpler societies but is not considered superior to them. Everyone lives in a society and a culture, but not everyone lives in a civilization. In general, civilizations share the following traits:
Intensive agricultural techniques
A significant portion of the population that does not devote most of its time to producing food
The gathering of these non-food producers into permanent settlements
A social hierarchy
The establishment of complex, formal social institutions such as organized religion and education
Development of complex forms of economic exchange
The accumulation of more material possessions than in simpler societies
Development of new technologies by people who are not busy producing food
Advanced development of the arts by those who don't have to farm for a living. This can include writing.

The Holy Roman Empire, the Brits, the US, the Australians, etc are all part of "Western Civilisation" which was formed from the Christian-believing, Latin speaking portion of the Greco-Roman civilisation.

Aztecs and Inca are not really civilisations but are groups of people within the Mesoamerican and Andean civilisations, but that's being a bit pedantic.

reference:
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Civilisation

[namtrak]

Maybe I should have clarified the question.

The greatest bunch of people who got together over an extended period of time and did amazing ****?

[Rocker]

Why doesn't the British Empire get a guernsey in this poll? It has to have a stronger claim than the Incas, whose only achievements were in Peru. The British Empire ensured that English became the premier world language that it is today. It also ensured that numerous countries, including Australia, became, or at least aspired to be, democracies. Although imperialism is unfashionable these days, there is a strong argument that British imperialism brought considerable benefits to the peoples who were colonised. The benefits were more questionable with some other imperial powers, like the Dutch in Indonesia, the Belgians in the Congo, or the Portuguese in East Timor.

I suppose some Australians may resent the fact that their ancestors were transported here for minor offences. But at least British imperialism gave them the opportunity to live in this great country, and to play cricket against Asian and African countries.

Rocker

[Iain]

Maybe I should have clarified the question.

The greatest bunch of people who got together over an extended period of time and did amazing ****?
The Liberal Party :D :D :D

[silentC]

Monty Python

[namtrak]

Why doesn't the British Empire get a guernsey in this poll? It has to have a stronger claim than the Incas, whose only achievements were in Peru. The British Empire ensured that English became the premier world language that it is today. It also ensured that numerous countries, including Australia, became, or at least aspired to ....
Rocker

My fault entirely, I thought I did - I'm not sure I can go back and add them in, anyway I suppose the poms are used to being an afterthought anyway - just ask Tony Blair..

:)


The Liberal Party

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[simon c]

Monty Python
"All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"

[Bob Willson]

They also invented the bagpipes and that one feat alone obliterates any brownie points they might have accrued throughout history, including their general belligerence towards the English ;).

Actually silentC they stole the bagpipes from the Irish. God knows why.

[Iain]

The bagpipes go a lot further back than that, the Egyptians and Greeks used them along with other races.

[Bob Willson]

[QUOTE=Zed] they had raiding parties to get wives and horses etc QUOTE]

They didn't go raiding for horses until after the white man came. They didn't have any to raid until then. The only method of locomation they had was either walking or skateboards

[craigb]

Maybe I should have clarified the question.

The greatest bunch of people who got together over an extended period of time and did amazing ****?

The Australian Cricket Team ;)

[Bob Willson]

The bagpipes go a lot further back than that, the Egyptians and Greeks used them along with other races.

Again....... WHY?????????????????? What is it with these people??????????

[silentC]

Actually, I have to come out and confess that I find a pipe band quite stirring. I wouldn't go out and buy a recording of them or anything but the few times I have seen a live pipe band playing, it has made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. They could be standing up to leave I suppose - but that would only make the few left on my head even more lonely.

Hark when the noot is falling,
Hear, hear, the poops are calling,
Ludely and prudely calling,
Doon thro' the glen.

[Gumby]

"All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"

the aquaduct ?

[Kev Y.]

The Chinese without a doubt

I am with "brother" Wongo (I found out 4 years ago I am from good chinese stock :) )

[Kev Y.]

"All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"

ORGIES :D :D :D :) :)

[craigb]

Actually, I have to come out and confess that I find a pipe band quite stirring. I wouldn't go out and buy a recording of them or anything but the few times I have seen a live pipe band playing, it has made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. They could be standing up to leave I suppose - but that would only make the few left on my head even more lonely.

Hark when the noot is falling,
Hear, hear, the poops are calling,
Ludely and prudely calling,
Doon thro' the glen.

Mate, you need a holiday! :D :D :D

[silentC]

And not a Roman holiday, either!

Well, my Granny was a MacKay....

:o

[Grunt]

The British Empire ensured that English became the premier world language that it is today.

This isn't actually true. Up until WWII the Lingua Franca was French. The good old U.S. of A. is responsible for English being the most widely spoken language in the world. Most of the younger people in Europe speak English as a second language not because of England but because the U.S. represents a quarter of the worlds economy.

As far as having an effect on the greatest percentage of the worlds population, I'd say that the U.S. wins hands down. Culturally, the U.S. influence is massive. Movies, TV, Music, Speech, Dress etc. are visible in even the most backwater countries.

[craigb]

And not a Roman holiday, either!



So you don't want to zip around Rome on a Vespa with Audrey Hepburn on the back ?

Actually, you do have a certain resemblance to Gregory Peck now that I think about it :eek:

:D

[bitingmidge]

As far as having an effect on the greatest percentage of the worlds population, I'd say that the U.S. wins hands down. Culturally, the U.S. influence is massive. Movies, TV, Music, Speech, Dress etc. are visible in even the most backwater countries.

But there's a Chinese Restaurant in every town in the civilised world, which has got to score China big points!!

Cheers,

P

:D

[silentC]

Most of the younger people in Europe speak English as a second language not because of England but because the U.S. represents a quarter of the worlds economy.

That may be true today but English was pretty common around the globe long before WWII. During that sort of expansive period when Spain, Portugal, France and England were running around putting dibs on the rest of the world, their respective languages were spread with them. For example, most of South America speaks a Spanish or Portuguese derivative and there are the islands that speak French. The poms spread the love on the Sub Continent and in Africa amongst other places. And don't forget that the Yanks speak English (or their version of it) because of the English.

[MathewA]

I guess I've seen and read about another side of the North American Indians that you haven't - they weren't what I would call civilized or environmentally friendly. They were and are just like everyone else no better no worse.


I would like to take a serious tack here (for once).

In my opinion the greatest civilization was that of the American native Indians, over 200 diff tribes living in relative harmony! they had equality between the sexes, inter tribal govts, respect for th elder, little or no diseases, healthy lifestyles, no obesity or fast food, no expansion policy or "savage land stealing policys", a sustainable environmental policy that did not destroy any land or denude any part of the place to the point where the env. was damaged and only fought minor skirmishes amongst eachother, even to the point where only the participants of the skirmishes were the only ones killed. of course they had raiding parties to get wives and horses etc but none of this compared to any of white/yellow/arab mans 'civilized god/cultural fearing actions'

then along came some white f*ck along with his colds, flus, rats, guns, alcohol and greed and screwed the whole joint up in less than 200 yrs. god bless america.
say goodbye to the passenger pigeon, the buffalo and the puma and god knows what else - look at the joint now - dontcha love the atomic bomb ? eh ? toxic waste - delicious!, oil - love it! etc etc...

the indians even coined a phrase that went something like this : "Only after the last tree has been felled, the last buffalo has been eaten and the last river has been drained will the white man realise that you cannot eat money!"

they even had a gunja pipe!!!

I vote for them.

[bitingmidge]

In fact there is plenty of DNA evidence to suggest that a number of American Indians are descendents of..

The Chinese!!!

For more information read "1421" ... a great thesis, tracking the voyages of the Chinese Treasure fleets of the Ming Dynasty.

Some of the bits of evidence tendered apart from the DNA stuff, include the "fact" that elderly Navajo Indians can understand Mandarin, and the names of the Wyoming and Lyoming tribes are a dead set giveaway.

Cheers,

P (Anyone for Sweet and Sour Bison?)

[craigb]

I wonder why the Indians (not the North American ones) haven't had a mention in this thread yet?

Their civilisation is at least as old as the Chinese.

[Gumby]

I wonder why the Indians (not the North American ones) haven't had a mention in this thread yet?

Their civilisation is at least as old as the Chinese.

Simple, their spinners are chuckers......... :D :D :D :D

[Iain]

But the curries are good ;)
Gungadin the Apache :D :D (and as I saw in a backwoods US newspaper 'here are some pictures of the Tajma Hall')

[simon c]

As far as having an effect on the greatest percentage of the worlds population, I'd say that the U.S. wins hands down. Culturally, the U.S. influence is massive. Movies, TV, Music, Speech, Dress etc. are visible in even the most backwater countries.

That would have to be the chinese as 25% of the world are chinese.

[simon c]

I wonder why the Indians (not the North American ones) haven't had a mention in this thread yet?

Their civilisation is at least as old as the Chinese.

Good point:
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Indus+civilization

[Rocker]

Grunt,

I can't agree with you about the respective influence of the Brits and Americans in spreading English around the world. The American influence is relatively recent, since the advent of film and TV in the mid-20th Century. The British were spreading English around the world, especially in North America, India and Africa, and the Commonwealth countries, throughout the 17th to 20th Centuries. The American influence is mainly felt by people who learned English originally through the British influence, and who were therefore an audience for American films and TV. Before WWII, the Americans generally stayed in America, apart from a few imperial forays into places like the Phillipines, Puerto Rico, and American Samoa, and their culture had little effect on the rest of the world.

Rocker

[Bob Willson]

And .... The official national language of India is ..................English

[bitingmidge]

and their culture had little effect on the rest of the world.


Let's face it, there's more culture in a tub of yoghurt!!

Cheers,

P (who usually uses that line to describe Melbourne.)
:D :D :D

[Iain]

But that has to be attributed to Peter Sellersbirdie num num :p

[Iain]

(who usually uses that line to describe Melbourne.)
Mmmm, think I'd miss the opera and consorts in Qld, not to mention the restaurants and ski-ing (snow, the proper one).
And I forgot the 2 hour sunsets :rolleyes: fly fishing for trout 2 minutes from home etc etc.

[Gumby]

That would have to be the chinese as 25% of the world are chinese.

and they form 100% of the people who write instruction manuals. :eek:

[bitingmidge]

fly fishing for trout 2 minutes from home etc etc.You have to HUNT for food???? :eek: :eek: :eek:

We have shops the same distance from home!!!

P (This thread was going nowhere anyway!!)
:D :D :D

[simon c]

and they form 100% of the people who write instruction manuals. :eek:
Oh, you're the one who reads unstruction manuals! ;)

[Grunt]

Grunt,

I can't agree with you about the respective influence of the Brits and Americans in spreading English around the world. The American influence is relatively recent, since the advent of film and TV in the mid-20th Century. The British were spreading English around the world, especially in North America, India and Africa, and the Commonwealth countries, throughout the 17th to 20th Centuries. The American influence is mainly felt by people who learned English originally through the British influence, and who were therefore an audience for American films and TV. Before WWII, the Americans generally stayed in America, apart from a few imperial forays into places like the Phillipines, Puerto Rico, and American Samoa, and their culture had little effect on the rest of the world.

Yes, all the influence has been since WWII. The Brits certainly did spread English to the commonwealth countries but no further. China, Japan, Indonesia and the rest of Asia, Russia, All the European Countries, Latin America, the Middle East etc. now have large populations that speak English to some degree. Had the Pilgrams been the Dutch instead of the Poms the world would have Dutch as the second language not English.

[Sturdee]

Had the Pilgrams been the Dutch instead of the Poms the world would have Dutch as the second language not English.

And it would have been a better place as well. For they would never have allowed the seppos to bastardize the language. :D :D :D


Peter.

[Rusty]

Views expressed in the following etc. etc., but I think you'll see the relevance...;)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-17649-1510003,00.html

Happy and safe Easter to all.
Rus.

[echnidna]

Bob don’t forget mate, a lot of ginger.


It is so great to have made an impact on someone’s life.

Hmmm .... reckon it might flavour up a possum real good too!!!
What's the best species of possum to eat?
:o :o :o :o :o

[echnidna]

The world's greatest civilisation cannot be reasonably attributed to any individual nation.
The technological and multicultural era we live in NOW must undoubtedly be the greatest civilisation. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Iain]

You have to HUNT for food???? :eek: :eek: :eek:

We have shops the same distance from home!!!

P (This thread was going nowhere anyway!!)
:D :D :D
But can you cast and catch it without being arrested for shoplifting :D :D :D

[bitingmidge]

But can you cast and catch it without being arrested for shoplifting :D :D :D

How long does it take to dry out your ugg boots though??


P
:D :D :D

[ozwinner]

Let's face it, there's more culture in a tub of yoghurt!!

Cheers,

P (who usually uses that line to describe Perth.)
:D :D :D
Now hang on there Midge.
You know Squizzy is all culture.

Al :D

[Grunt]

And .... The official national language of India is ..................English


It was. The official language is Hindi, however English is the official language of those states that didn't accept Hindi as the official language. India has 15 languages and 1600 dialects.
http://www.indianchild.com/linguistic_states_india.htm

[craigb]

Now hang on there Midge.
You know Squizzy is all culture.

Al :D

Geez Midge you've been hacked :eek: :D

[vsquizz]

Now hang on there Midge.
You know Squizzy is all culture.

Al :D
Yeah, right on Al, we are very suphi...sopissti...very sofist..sophusti.....smart over ere, an we hold our little pinkies out when we drink our beer too!:p

Cheers

[Grunt]

Yeah, right on Al, we are very suphi...sopissti...very sofist..sophusti.....smart over ere, an we hold our little pinkies out when we drink our beer too!



And other parts of their anatomy.

[Finger Dicer]

The world's greatest civilisation cannot be reasonably attributed to any individual nation.
The technological and multicultural era we live in NOW must undoubtedly be the greatest civilisation. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Correct. Go to the top of the class...thats precisely the answer required in one of the thesis for modern and historical social & geo political studies.

A better question may have been which was the most influential culture prior to the 20th century.

Those that thought the Chinese were close. But why would the Chinese build a wall clear across their country. Simple to keep out the Mongols, who also include the Hun, Han and Hitite peoples. These peoples ruled the great steppes of Russia and Manchuria, spreading their culture to greater Russia and China, as well as the Baltic states and what was in those days known as Gaul.

The only known people to hold off this hoard were the Norsemen, Danes,Swedes Fins etcc..Scandinavians.

I cant remember if it was Kublai or Ghenhis Khan, but anyway, it was these people that desimated the Roman Empire and brought 2000 years of plumbing to a rather abrupt end.

Had it not been for these people, there may well have never been a British Empire, or any other major civilisation. Whilst Roman culture was going thru a decline, it is postulated the the society as a whole would have endured, but in a somewhat fragmented form, however historical conjecture would put it that Britain would have become part of the Scandinavian culture due mostly to a lack of challenge from other quarters.

Here ends today's history lessen :D

Yeah okay so I was bored and I happen to like history :)

[Bob Willson]

Mmmm, think I'd miss the opera and consorts in Qld

Ummmm? consorts? I thought tha was illegal, or at least heavily frowned upon.

[Iain]

Those that thought the Chinese were close. But why would the Chinese build a wall clear across their country. Simple to keep out the Mongols, who also include the Hun, Han and Hitite peoples.
And the Jehovahs Witnesses and Mormons :D :D :D :D

[Iain]

Ummmm? consorts? I thought tha was illegal, or at least heavily frowned upon.
Not consortiums :p
ex guitar consort member and follower of ancient music society :)

[bitingmidge]

Geez Midge you've been hacked :eek: :D

:eek: :eek: :eek:
If I lived in ancient China, when I healed up I'd get to mind the consorts!

P
:D :D :D

[MathewA]

I can see why they turned back. Who in their right mind would want those territories


Correct.
The only known people to hold off this hoard were the Norsemen, Danes,Swedes Fins etcc..Scandinavians.Here ends today's history lessen :D

Yeah okay so I was bored and I happen to like history :)

[Rocker]

I can see why they turned back. Who in their right mind would want those territories

Dubya would, if he knew about their oil revenues. I believe the Norwegians have one of the highest per-capita incomes in the world (higher than the US - see http://www.worldbank.org/data/databytopic/GNIPC.pdf ), due to their North Sea oil resources. They also have some very fine climbing in the Lofoten Islands. The gabbro there is so rough that it is very difficult to fall off it. However, I wouldn't fancy enduring their climate.

Rocker

[ryanarcher]

They also have some very fine climbing in the Lofoten Islands. Rocker

I didn't know you're a climber Rocker! I'll bring my gear when i visit all my Australian mates. :D

BTW, I vote that ants have the most advanced civilisation in the world. silly question really. :rolleyes:

[Rocker]

Ryan,

I am a bit long in the tooth for climbing these days, and I have to confess I have never climbed in the Lofoten Islands; but I have climbed on the similar gabbro in the Cuillin Hills in the Isle of Skye, where I used to live many years ago.

Climbing is rather limited in Australia, although there are some quite formidable crags in the Glasshouse Mountains, not far from here - but the rock is not that sound.

Rocker