Cutting asbestos without too much dust

[Kram]

G'day all, i'm about to install a doorway in a fibro wall which i suspect contains asbestos (property is a Queenslander type about 50 years old).

To cut the doorway in, i'll have to cut out 2 door sized sections of the board (either side of wall). I was told to do this with an angle grinder (diamond blade) but i reckon it's gonna cause a lotta dust.

Can anyone comment on which is the best way to go about this? Should i use the angle grinder (wear mask etc) or is there a better way to do it without causing so much dust?

PS: excellent forum, so glad i found it :)

[beejay1]

G'day all, i'm about to install a doorway in a fibro wall which i suspect contains asbestos (property is a Queenslander type about 50 years old).
To cut the doorway in, i'll have to cut out 2 door sized sections of the board (either side of wall). I was told to do this with an angle grinder (diamond blade) but i reckon it's gonna cause a lotta dust.
Can anyone comment on which is the best way to go about this? Should i use the angle grinder (wear mask etc) or is there a better way to do it without causing so much dust?
PS: excellent forum, so glad i found it :)
Kram , theres athread on this a few weeks back and some very ggod input by our experienced members which is worth reading. Also do a google on asbestos removal it will make very clear the dangers involved.
I would strongly recommend you leave it alone and call in professionals to do it for you..It really is very dangerous stuff.
beejay1

http://community.webshots.com/user/eunos9

[bitingmidge]

Yep! Get someone else to do it and go away for a few days.

IF you really must, wear proper protective gear including respirator, remove the whole sheet carefully and dispose of it thoughtfully :rolleyes: ,

Reclad with a new fibrous cement with a similar thickness,

DON'T CUT IT WITH AN ANGLE GRINDER OR POWER SAW UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

Cheers,

P

[Rocker]

Back in the early '70's I lived in an uninsulated fibro-cement company house in Mount Isa. It was a bit like living in an oven, really. Eventually I managed to persuade the bosses in Melbourne that my efficiency would be markedly improved if I did not have to spend nearly all my time trying to prevent rivers of sweat from ruining my maps and air photos, and that an air-conditioner should be installed in the office. Unfortunately, carpenters were in short supply in the Isa, and I eventually realized that, if I wanted the a/c installed, I would have to do it myself. So, not knowing any better at the time, I attacked the fibro walls with a circular saw. I got the air con installed, but I could well have inhaled enough asbestos to cause mesothelioma. I just keep my fingers crossed; but I would join others in suggesting that you leave cutting asbestos to a specialist.

Rocker

[wombat47]

And the b*****s knew what they were selling long before the 1970's.

The claims against Hardies now include a young woman who was exposed to asbestos as a child when her father renovated.

The problem with this stuff is that it's not only you who are at risk but everyone around you - family and neighbours, as well as unsuspecting strangers who might wander past.

[Eastie]

Using an angle grinder to cut a/c sheet with any blade will cause a dust storm.
If you must do it yourself have a good read of this booklet:
http://www.health.vic.gov.au/environment/downloads/asbestos_home2003.pdf

[Trav]

we have new laws here in the ACT that require you to disclose anything you know about asbestos in your house to any tradies, tenants etc etc. A bloody good idea and well overdue.

Having lost my grandad to mesothilioma a few years ago, I can attest that it is a terrible way to go. It's not worth risking your life and those around you to work with this stuff to save a few bucks. I'm with midge on this one - get someone in to remove it and go away for a few days.

Trav

[Don777]

One idea Kram
If you really must do it yourself. One paint it both sides, Two wear gloves and mask, coverall, Three use fibro cutters to cut the sheet, and Four dispose of carefully...

Having said that old fibro if you nail though it it with probably break, so pull the two sheet offs carefully and replace with new cement sheet

Don

[rod1949]

Do an initial break through with a nail punch to get the old hand operated (guillotine type) in to complete the straight line cuts. When you come to noggins/studs use the nail punch again.

[HavinaGo]

Kram,

as others have said, please don't cut the sheet with power tools .. dust everywhere, fibres released --> potential BAD news some day!

I'd follow the advice given .. remove the whole sheet(s) and reclad with equivalent sheeting. Removal ideally should leave a spotless area but I've heard horrible stories so even if you get in the professionals make sure the site is clean afterwards. If not, keep the family out until it is and use non-dust creating methods of cleaning. (beware of the family vac) dispose of cleanings appropriately.

Also, seal off the work area prior to starting.

From my perspective asbestos in cement sheet is tolerable ONLY as long as it is trapped in the sheet. Once it starts to get out (dust, abrasion, etc ...) then get out of there until it is gone! If you have kids, then be even more paranoid.

If you're over 50, then probably OK to DIY with precautions as the disease takes 30-40 years to show up --- depends on your life expectancy!

Anyone know why it is young blokes doing removal work?? seems crazy from a health point of view!

[Trav]

remember to dispose of this stuff properly too. Don't just take it to the dump and chuck it.

Trav

[Kram]

Thanks for all the quick replies - much appreciated.

I'm creating another bedroom and need to put a doorway in so i don't need to reclad it. The new stud wall will be gyprocked.

After doing another search and reading these replies, i think i'll do as a few suggested and use a nail punch to perforate the outline before breaking along the line with a mallet (trying not to crack the surrounding board). I'll also try and get the fibro cutters in there where i can.

It's an old wall that already has paint on it, so i don't think repainting it will help. But i'll spray it down to help reduce the dust.

I also intend to put down new carpet, so i'm thinking i'll rip up the old stuff before starting so that there's less dust to be trapped.

I'll let you know how it goes,

Cheers for all the suggestions :)

[simon c]

A couple of extra points or maybe just to re-emphasise what has been said.

Clean up should be done with water not vacuum. It is OK to wash the cleanup down the sink - asbestos is not actually poisonous, ie you can eat/drink it (I wouldn't, but you can) but you cannot inhale it.

Wear disposable overclothes and wash your underclothes immediately.

Check with the local council on disposal - it is normally acceptable to double-bag small amounts of asbestos and the disposable clothes and clearly label as asbestos and then dump as per normal building ruibbish. To re-iterate, asbestos is not poisonous and does no more harm to the environment than burying other building products, it is the potential to inhale it at a later date that is the problem.

In some states you are not allowed to do diy work on asbestos for more than 1 hour per week.

[Fat Pat]

Sell the house and go somewhere else!

Hardies and their ilk have a LOT to answer for.

[Kris.Parker1]

Take the meesus on a holiday and get someone in. I used to live in a house that had heaps of the evil crap around until we demolished it and built a new one. Took about two weeks andwe had to get special permission off the council.


I know yours isn't a huge job, but the danger is still there. If you need to do it yourself, I'd recommend a cheap dust suit and respirator (no need for external O2 supply) just one of those masks with goggles (prefereaby a full face) that will have a fine enough filter to trap the little dust particles.

Cheers

Kris

Hope all goes well.

[jimc]

I had the same problem. Except my house is from the 30's with the last extension going up in the 50's. My technique was to remove the asbestos panels I had to do large cuts in and replace with new cement sheet AND used a guillotine to make the small cuts in the panels that remained once wet.

Just a note the source of potential asbestos "poisoning" not only came from Hardie's products....how many of you replaced your own brakes on your car/motorbike pre 1990 and blew out the dust?

Am I worried about the asbestos sheeting at my place? No not really if it is respected
Am I worried about my earlier home car/motorbike repairs? You bet!!!

Thats my 5 cents worth

[wombat47]

Although Scandivavians used asbestos in the manufacture of pottery and for chinking their log cabins and Egyptians used it in the embalming process, the Greeks and Romans expanded its use into building products, flame retardant cloth and women's clothing. Its health risks were recognised back then - in the first century Pliny the Elder advised against buying slaves from asbestos mines because "they die young". He also advised the use of respirators made from animal bladders to protect the miners.

Later uses for asbestos included insulation in medieval suits of armour. A type of asbestos which had the appearance of wood was flogged off as pieces of the Cross - the fact that it wouldn't burn was offered as proof that it was from the real thing.

With the advent of the Industrial Revolution, the use of asbestos increased dramatically in both products and the production process. By 1897 a link was made between asbestos workers and lung diseases and the first documented case of asbestos causing the death of a worker was in 1906. By 1908 insurance companies were decreasing policies and benefits for asbestos workers.

Throughout the 1900's numerous studies provided evidence that linked various types of asbestos and their production & use with disease and deaths of workers. The asbestos companies weren't stupid. They were happy to fund any number of studies - they then "owned" the studies and were able to suppress the findings, or alter the results.

James Hardie was not only making building products. It was manufacturing pipes, brake linings, insulation, etc., as well as products for use in other industries - pipe laggings, textured paint, flooring adhesives, etc.

The point is that they KNEW asbestos was killing people. And they went on manufacturing the stuff and coming up with more products. In the 1970's, when evidence against the use of asbestos began to make it into the public arena, Hardie's gave their plant managers detailed written instructions on what lies they were to tell their workers.

This isn't just an instance where a manufacturer finds that the product is harmful and takes it off the market. Asbestos shows the extent to which a manufacturer will go to lie, suppress information and expose workers and their families, as well as its customers and community members, to a potentially fatal risk.

[vsquizz]

IF you take all the precautions in the world, wear all the gear package and label the stuff properly, transport it correctly etc etc...they still just chuck it in the tip with the rest of general waste. Disposal of asbestos based products is not an black art, they just bury it. Its harmless unless you breathe it.. (or a truck load lands on your head:D ).

If you end up DIY then keep a little squirty bottle full of water handy. As you go to cut or remove each section wet it down. This practice is well stated in the various state OH&S documentation. We always wet down roofs before removing them, and at get peril of going A##se up on a wet roof:( .

When somebody invents a quality respirator, that you can actually wear while doing demolition work in 40 deg temps then let me know.

No power tools, and if you can't get fibro cutter shears (which often wont fit in where you want) look to score and snap (while wet)

Cheers