Solicitors...

[silentC]

This would be even funnier if it wasn't true.

I recently signed a contract to sell our house. Because my parents are in Perth, I had to sign on their behalf. Our solicitor arranged an 'authority to sign' allowing me to do this under the Real Estate act.

When we exchanged, the purchaser's solicitor refused to accept my signature because it was not executed under a power of attorney. After much to-ing and fro-ing, he agreed to accept the signature of the Real Estate agent under a similar authority to sign.

So to summarise, he would not accept the signature of a blood relative but he would accept the signature of a real estate agent!!

Ho ho ho, hee, hee, hee.

Now isn't that the funniest thing you've ever heard?

[Termite]

Solicitors, real estate agents, used car salesmen, Ned Kelly........need I say more :rolleyes:

[Gumby]

Sounds strange. I've never heard of an 'authority to sign'. A POA is quite common though and your solicitor should have arranged that in the first place. What state are you in ? (each has different Real Estate laws)

[silentC]

NSW. According to our solicitor, the act gives a vendor or purchaser the power to nominate someone to sign on their behalf. It's usually set up for auctions because the contracts are signed on the day. You can nominate anyone to sign for you. It can be an agent, a family member, or anyone who you trust to sign on your behalf. Our real estate agent says it's quite common.

Maybe the purchaser's solicitor is from Vic. Very likely around these parts.

[ozwinner]

Ok Silent, pack your bags.

Apparantly I now own your house....:cool:

Al :eek:

[Sturdee]

So to summarise, he would not accept the signature of a blood relative but he would accept the signature of a real estate agent!!


Actually I'm not surprised at all. Blood relatives signing on behalf of older relatives is often suspect unless it is under POA.

The questions of legalities, undue influence etc comes into play whereas the Agent is independant and has licencing obligations to consider and has malfeasance insurance.

In a previous life when I worked in a bank we often has similar situations where elderly parents went guarantor for their children or the wife to mortgage property she owned for a husband's borrowing.

As a matter of principle, and to protect the bank against subsequent claims, we insisted on independant legal advisors being used for the guarantors and independant witnesses on signing documents.

Just being prudent or does the solicitor knows you? :D :D :D :D :D



Peter.

[popawisky]

gumby asks what state he is in. Sounds like the state of confusion.

[silentC]

The questions of legalities, undue influence etc comes into play whereas the Agent is independant and has licencing obligations to consider and has malfeasance insurance.
True but, at least in NSW, you can send anyone to an auction to bid on your behalf. Some people use an agent, some people use a solicitor but from what our agent tells me, most people use a friend or family member. That person must be able to sign the contracts on auction day if successful. It is usually authorised with a piece of paper. You would not give your mate from the pub a power of attorney :eek:

[Wood Borer]

Ok Silent, pack your bags.

Apparantly I now own your house....:cool:

Al :eek:

Does this mean the craporium tycoon will soon be heading up a multi-national group?

Silent, I am with you on this one although I understand Sturdee's comments.

I am yet to meet a Real Estate agent who isn't dressed like a show pony, who doesn't have some annoying cheap false grinning facial expression and who doesn't rip people off. Their overbearing smart alec attitude should be grounds for a law to make it illegal for them to breed.

The only thing going for them is their apparent lack of intelligence - they may not have the brains to figure out a new rort.

I regularly meet people who buy and sell their properties and I haven't heard any good comments yet.

[silentC]

Does this mean the craporium tycoon will soon be heading up a multi-national group?
Don't worry, he'd have to sell a lot of, ehem, antiques to afford my house :D

[Iain]

When we bought our place the agent told the girls that they had all the open paddocks oround us where they could ride their horses, no one would mind.
The owner thought it was hilarious when I told him later, he wouldn't mind anyone chopping up 90 acres of Lucerne hay.
As for not being bright enough to think up a new rort, thats what the solicitors are for, the real estate agents then implement it.

[Slavo]

Solicitors, real estate agents, used car salesmen, Ned Kelly........need I say more :rolleyes:
I thought Ned was a good guy

[Wood Borer]

Don't worry, he'd have to sell a lot of, ehem, antiques to afford my house :D

What are you talking about? Al makes genuine antiques.


As for not being bright enough to think up a new rort, thats what the solicitors are for, the real estate agents then implement it.

Thanks Iain, that makes sense now. :D

[Wood Borer]

I thought Ned was a good guy

Opinions on Ned have been debated on this BB previously with opinions ranging from he was a good guy - a product of his environment to a bloodthirsty murdering out of control maniac.

No matter what you think of Ned, he doesn't deserve to be categorised with Real Estate Agents.

[Sturdee]

True but, at least in NSW, you can send anyone to an auction to bid on your behalf. Some people use an agent, some people use a solicitor but from what our agent tells me, most people use a friend or family member. That person must be able to sign the contracts on auction day if successful. It is usually authorised with a piece of paper. You would not give your mate from the pub a power of attorney :eek:


True, and the person making the bid and signing the contract at auction is,and unless he can arrange for a substitute being the person he acts for to continue with the contract, responsible in law to continue and can be sued if he doesn't perform etc.


However it is a different matter for the purchaser if the seller who signs the contract is not the registered owner but claims to sign on behalf of elderly relatives.


Whilst not necessarily disagreeing with the other comments on solicitors IMO this solicitor is acting properly on their clients behalf. BTW only one of very few I have met. :D


Peter.

[silentC]

IMO this solicitor is acting properly on their clients behalf
I'm afraid that makes you the only one Peter, even the purchaser had no problem with the way it was done. All he did was to delay the whole process, cause a lot of stress and angst, rob my parents of a bit of enjoyment on their holiday, and probably most significantly, rack up a few more 1/4 hour blocks at $70 a pop!

Fact of the matter is, whether he likes it or not, the law in NSW says this can be done.

[Sturdee]

I'm afraid that makes you the only one Peter

May be so Darren, it’s not the first time and definitely won’t be the last time. :D

I sympathise that it delayed the whole process, caused a lot of stress and angst and robbed your parents of a bit of enjoyment on their holiday but as conveyancing is normally charged at a fixed cost I doubt he would have made more money.

I know that you look at this matter from the seller’s point of view but imagine the following scenario. If the contract for the new property you bought was signed by a close relative of the vendor under such an authority and just before settlement, after you had sold your house, the real owner decided to cancel and not proceed what would happen.

You, having incurred losses, would need to take legal action in the Supreme Court to obtain redress. This is not cheap and could put your life on hold for a number of years whilst it is all sorted out.

The adequacy of such an authority would have to be determined by a Judge and the Act may not have been drawn up by Parliament to adequately protect you in such a situation. So you could loose even more. However the POA situation is clear for it has already been tested in the Courts as high as the House of Lords over many years. Whilst it may be legal a POA would be better and is also legal.

If this hasn’t convinced you that the solicitor was acting in the interest of his client, even though it inconvenienced you, I think we have to agree to disagree. :D


Peter.

Disclaimer: Please note that this is my opinion and not legal advice to be relied upon. Independent advice needs to be obtained in a similar situation.

[silentC]

The adequacy of such an authority would have to be determined by a Judge ... Whilst it may be legal a POA would be better and is also legal.
This is the crux of the situation. I don't know whether or not it has been tested. It may well have been. My solicitor seems to think it is satisfactory, so maybe he knows more about it. It can't be less binding than a POA, ultimately it is either binding or it is not.

I take your point that the purchaser needs protection as well, I have his deposit as security whilst he has nothing but the law. I don't think that is at issue.

I haven't seen the legislation but I can only go by what my solicitor tells me. Unless it is worded such that it only applies to a registered agent, you could probably just as easily argue that it is not binding on an arrangement made with a Real Estate agent either. If it does refer to a registered agent, then I presume my solicitor would not have relied upon it in this case. I might try and dig it out.

No wonder barristers all drive such nice cars, huh?

[Sturdee]

I haven't seen the legislation but I can only go by what my solicitor tells me.

Darren I think we agree in principle except that I am more cautious about what solicitors tell me than you are.

Over the years, because having worked for few employers who would prefer to go to court rather than settle a dispute :eek: , I have often heard solicitors and barristers, including QC's, say one thing and later the Court say the opposite.

The ultimate legal meaning etc of your authority I do not know however the POA has been tested over centuries and is absolutely clear as to its legal meaning. This must be a plus for the purchaser. As to the agent signing, if it turns out wrong the purchaser can sue him for damages and his professional idemnity insurance is available whereas a seller's agent hasn't.

I have just finished serving on a jury. The accused got and acted on his legal advice. If he had obtained better legal advice and acted on that instead he would not have been found guilty. So legal advice and legal advice is not always the same or correct. That's why barristers drive such nice cars.


Peter.

[Iain]

Having spent many years in court I have seen many incompetent solicitors make obscene amounts of money, then I have seen some go broke too.
I recall one near where I used to live, he was on the council and the police suddenly took an interest in some council land dealings.
This solicitor suddenly turned up in a deceased state in his car in the bush, no suspicious circumstances................say no more.