v8 supercars

[fubar]

Anybody else catch the news nissan have joined up with kelly racing for 2013 season

[Avery]

I heard that earlier today. What are they going to run? They don't sell a V8 in Australia and I don't think they have a rear drive platform other than the Patrol, Pathfinder or Navara. Or is it just a sponsorship deal? That would be strange - Nissan sponsoring a Holden. Then again, GM own a fair piece of Nissan.

[_fly_]

What makes you think there is a difference between the ford and the holden. They are ALL the same underneath, Its only the shell over the top thats different. They aren't ford engines in fords and holden engines in holdens. The cars are build by other people ie stone bros, perkins garage etc.

[A Duke]

How does a V8 Nissan Cedric grip you?

[Scott]

It's a stand alone Nissan model yet to be announced. Details, click the following link:

OFFICIAL: Nissan To Join V8 Supercars Championship (http://www.v8supercars.com.au/championship/newsarticle/official-nissan-to-join-v8-supercars-championship/tabid/70/newsid/12124/default.aspx)

[artme]

How does a V8 Nissan Cedric grip you?

With about the same feverish excitement as a V8 Gloria!!:D

[Geoff Dean]

What makes you think there is a difference between the ford and the holden. They are ALL the same underneath, Its only the shell over the top thats different. They aren't ford engines in fords and holden engines in holdens. The cars are build by other people ie stone bros, perkins garage etc.

That is not quite correct. They do run Ford engines in Fords and likewise for the Holden (albeit a chev engine). They do have a lot of common parts like gearboxes, diffs and suspensions.

From 2013 V8 Suoercars will being running what is known as Car Of The Future (COTF)

It will be a space frame chassis manufactured to the same specification for all models onto which various manufacturers body panels will attached. To be eligible the manufacturer must have a rear wheel drive, four door model. If that model does not have a V8 engine, you can choose either the Ford or Chev engine and it will be badged and run as a VESA (V8 Supercars Australia) engine.

The whole concept is very similar to America's NASCAR.

Some of the reasons for going down this path included the expense of developing road cars into race cars, the fact that they used many control parts that were not found on road going cars, and to open the category up to other manufacturers.

[_fly_]

That is not quite correct. They do run Ford engines in Fords and likewise for the Holden (albeit a chev engine). They do have a lot of common parts like gearboxes, diffs and suspensions.

From 2013 V8 Suoercars will being running what is known as Car Of The Future (COTF)

It will be a space frame chassis manufactured to the same specification for all models onto which various manufacturers body panels will attached. To be eligible the manufacturer must have a rear wheel drive, four door model. If that model does not have a V8 engine, you can choose either the Ford or Chev engine and it will be badged and run as a VESA (V8 Supercars Australia) engine.

The whole concept is very similar to America's NASCAR.

Some of the reasons for going down this path included the expense of developing road cars into race cars, the fact that they used many control parts that were not found on road going cars, and to open the category up to other manufacturers.

Thats my point, I don't know why people are Red or Blue anymore. Its not like it was in the late 70's and early 80's where "my car maker is better than your car maker". Its time to swap from supporting the manufacturers and start supporting the drivers instead. I hated lownes for swapping back and forward. I didn't care who he was driving for, No loyalty was the issue. But I guess thats all gone anyway now. I suppose the kelly's going to nissan will be the start of the red/blue war finishing.

[Jim Carroll]

Thats my point, I don't know why people are Red or Blue anymore. Its not like it was in the late 70's and early 80's where "my car maker is better than your car maker". Its time to swap from supporting the manufacturers and start supporting the drivers instead. I hated lownes for swapping back and forward. I didn't care who he was driving for, No loyalty was the issue. But I guess thats all gone anyway now. I suppose the kelly's going to nissan will be the start of the red/blue war finishing.


The RED/BLUE war will never finish.

It does not matter much what is under the car but the logo on the front that is what true rev heads believe.

For me it is going to be a hard change love my holdens and Jack Daniels

[Yonnee]

Once a Holden man, always a Holden man!
And it's the same for any Blue Oval fan too.

Sadly, gone are the days of "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday". These days it's run as a mulit-million dollar business, and nothing more. Everything is geared towards sponsorship dollars and the marketing campaign that goes with it. There is no brand loyalty for drivers anymore, it's all about who's providing the next biggest pay check.

[nrb]

I heard that Chrysler 300C will be racing,will that be under the new 2013 format?

[Geoff Dean]

I hated lownes for swapping back and forward. I didn't care who he was driving for, No loyalty was the issue.

How do you figure no Loyalty? He has a contract to drive for team X. They switch equipment halfway through that contract, Lowndes has no choice.

The loyalty thing is a huge crock of doo doo. The driver is employed to do a job.

Have you never switched jobs in your life to better either your salary or work conditions. Going by your values that would make you disloyal as well.

[Geoff Dean]

I heard that Chrysler 300C will be racing,will that be under the new 2013 format?

If they come in, and it all points towards Garry Rogers Motorsport, then yes, it will be 2013.

[Geoff Dean]

The RED/BLUE war will never finish.

It does not matter much what is under the car but the logo on the front that is what true rev heads believe.

For me it is going to be a hard change love my holdens and Jack Daniels

True, and it was like xmas, birthday and easter all rolled into one for me when Jim Bean started sponsoring Dick Johnson Racing. :D

All they now need is for Marcos Ambrose to come home and drive for them and I will be in heaven.

[Geoff Dean]

There is no brand loyalty for drivers anymore, it's all about who's providing the next biggest pay check.

Why is it that racing car drivers and footballers are always branded as disloyal or traitors if they move to another brand/team. It is only employment for them and if they are out of contract and can get a better $ elsewhere they would be stupid to pass it by.

They have a very small window of opportunity to make the big bucks, and there are only so many media jobs for broken down or retired sports people, so they have to take it when they can.

I would hate to see the best players from Collingwood end up at GWS, but if they go, so be it.

[Bushmiller]

I was going to come straight out and say that the Bathurst race which evolved into a Holden/Ford duel lost it for me when they restricted the race to those two marques. I completely lost interest because the variety had gone.

At some point, which I missed, because I had lost interest, they brought the cars even closer together with the runnin gear being the same. Perhaps support has forced them to revert to more diversification.

I would like to see the organisers revert to the original concept of the bathurst style race and the cars bear more resemblance to the vehicles we buy for the road: Modifications strictly limited to safety and stability.

Having said all that, there are many one marque races around. Minis used to do it. Porsche still do it, Lamborghini I think sponsor a race. There again I don't watch those either!

Regards
Paul

[Geoff Dean]

Paul,

they tried that about 15yrs ago at Bathurst. There was a blowup over the TV rights, C7 held them for the traditional Bathurst date of the NSW Labour Day long weekend. C10 held the rights to the touring cars broadcast.

What transpired was 2 bathursts, C7 covered the 2litre series which included BMW's, Audi's, Fords, Holdens, Nissans, Toyotas etc.

The traditional V8's ended up 1 week later, where they still are.

The 2 litre series lasted about 2 yrs from memory with crowds and TV ratings of around 30% of the V8's.

Of bigger concern to me is the obvious manipulation of the races through enforced pitstops when not required and the intervention of the safety car (which is known as the entertainment car) with around 30 laps to go, so that all the front runners can be bunched up, fuel up and fresh tyres for the final sprint to the end.

Cars that leave the track before this point and represent absolutely no danger to anyone or anything will bring out a safety car almost before they stop spinning, but within the last 15 or so laps it almost takes a total track blockage to bring it out.

I haven't been to Bathurst for the race for about 7 or 8 yrs now, previous to that I went every year. If it ever returns to being a true motor race, rather than a television event with the final result determined by the entertainment director, then I might venture back.

[Yonnee]

Why is it that racing car drivers and footballers are always branded as disloyal or traitors if they move to another brand/team. It is only employment for them and if they are out of contract and can get a better $ elsewhere they would be stupid to pass it by.


That's exactly my point. Gone are the days of a bloke going out and buying a car that he was passionate about, prepping it for racing, and entering it in the Australian Touring Car Championship, and ultimately, Bathurst. Now it's all about the dollars. And I dont mean just the drivers, the whole circus is a multi-million dollar business. A good driver might have his choice about who he drives for, but with so many good young drivers in this country, they can't be too choosy about where their next pay packet is coming from. Hell, even the late Peter Brock drove a Sierra for a bit, and you couldn't get a more passionate Holden man.

[chambezio]

What about bringing back the old Reddex style Rally?
There was a good mix of makes and models and terrain that tested man and machine. Remember too the London to Sydney Marathon in the early 70s? There were 3 (I think) GT Falcons that really didn't do too well until they got to the Australian leg where they showed the world what "we" ca do.
OK they are not the "audience" race spectical that Bathurst offers but they are a true test of a car that you might be considering to buy
I remember that a European driver was approached to race at Bathurst to which he didn't think much about. Driving around a 3 odd mile track for 6 hours? He reluctantly did drive and was so wrapped because it offers everything .... tight corners hills and of course the famous Conrod.
That Utube that Cliff posted featuring sitting in the back seat of a GT Falcon havint to race against othwer smaller and slower cars was the way Bathurst should be done again

[BRADFORD]

I was going to come straight out and say that the Bathurst race which evolved into a Holden/Ford duel lost it for me when they restricted the race to those two marques. I completely lost interest because the variety had gone.

My thoughts exactly. It is time to stop making it a promotional video and make it a race again

[Bushmiller]

My impression of the original race was that it was entertainment pure and simple. There was a diverse range of vehicles and sometimes this created issues such as top speeds that could be 50km/h or more apart. However for the most part this was part of the mix and it was the essence of racing.

Then the likes of Ford and Holden seemed to be losing out to other marques with the biggest loss, to my mind, when the Ford Sierras blitzed the field. There were two problems. Firstly they weren't sold in Australia and secondly they were only two litres (I hope my memory hasn't failed me there) albeit turbocharged. The V8 brigade were seriously pi55ed off.

There was something of an outcry at that point. I would be interested to know if the push towards the Holden vs Ford formula came from these two manufacturers or the race organisers. Did the General and Henry dislike losing so much or did the race organisers anticipate crowds dwindling?

Anyhow we saw the emergence of the revised and heavily restricted V8 race and the doomed small category race as Geoff Dean pointed out.

For me any contest that is restricted or weighted in an unfair bias diminishes the kudos of a win. You just know in your heart that it is meaningless. It is better to lose gracefully and know you tried hard rather than rig the result.

Regards
Paul

[Bob38S]

Aah the old Bathurst - all cars racing albeit in their own classes - fabulous to see the big cars racing the Mini etc.

They really were the good old days for me.

[Geoff Dean]

Aah the old Bathurst - all cars racing albeit in their own classes - fabulous to see the big cars racing the Mini etc.

They really were the good old days for me.

And just to add another dimension, throw a couple of slow moving flatbed trucks into the mix as well. :D

[Bushmiller]

And just to add another dimension, throw a couple of slow moving flatbed trucks into the mix as well. :D

:DI know what you mean:wink:, but I deliberately mentioned the disparity in performance as it was often bemoaned by the drivers of the more powerful vehicles. However I still stick to the muti marque mix. In reality some of the slower V8s were not as quick around the track as the faster smaller engined cars,

I was fortunate in the mid 70s to watch the Le Mans 24hrs on two occasions. The difference in performance there was even more exagerated. The cars to beat were the Porsche 917s. They had a longtailed version and a short tailed model. The short tailed car was quicker around the track, but would only hit 220mph down the Mulsanne straight, while the long tail could do 240mph but was a little bit on the uncontollable side through the twisty bits. Not bad speeds for around 35 years ago!

I was always amused when watching the race on TV to see the choppers start the straight well ahead of the cars but fall behind like they were standing still.

Some of the smaller cars probably had a top speed of only160mph. In that situation they did get in the way, but equally they were expected to get out of the way. I suspect most of the small car drivers spent half their time looking for Porsches, Fords and Ferraris in their rear view mirrors. Add the extended fatigue factor and with the top speed difference of around 140km/h, you may have a case for excluding the teenies.

Not quite the same at Bathurst.

Regards
Paul

[Geoff Dean]

They were the days - 55 cars on the start grid, instead of 28.

They were backed up around Murray's Corner about halfway to the Dunlop bridge.

About 8 laps in, the quick cars were starting to catch them................and then it started to get interesting.
Ahh for the good old days.