Attn wood finish purist.

[Fricasseekid]

I've been perusing the wood finish threads and noticed there isn't much talk of simple stain+polyurethane methods. What's the reason for this? This is the most common type of finish I'm familiar with. Is it considered a less "purist" way of doing things?

[jimbur]

I've been perusing the wood finish threads and noticed there isn't much talk of simple stain+polyurethane methods. What's the reason for this? This is the most common type of finish I'm familiar with. Is it considered a less "purist" way of doing things?
It could be that there are less things to go wrong and, after all, the instructions are on the tin.:D
Seriously, I doubt that purist/non-purist has anything to do with it.
cheers,
Jim

[Fricasseekid]

I suppose. I guess my theory is just born from the fact that a lot of people mention using all these natural sounding exotic oils and waxes.

[jimbur]

There are always those adventurous souls who like to try exotic oils and waxes, and it can lead to problems:wink:
Cheers,
Jim

[Master Splinter]

I think many people prefer a finish that shows the wood off in its natural state and without the long term 'have to sand it and refinish it' liability of polyurethane.

I like oil and wax finishes as I can just slap some more on and give it a quick rub if they start to look a bit daggy....which isn't something you can do with poly once it starts to show wear. This goes double for something like a table top which is going to cop a bit of abuse - once poly gets damaged, it's hello sandpaper!

I also prefer the smell of citrus/eucalyptus/beeswax over tolulene and all its little hydrocarbon friends! (Eucy based stuff in winter does wonders for the nose, so it's double acting!)

[Fricasseekid]

There are always those adventurous souls who like to try exotic oils and waxes, and it can lead to problems:wink:
Cheers,
Jim

What kind of problems?
So your a fan of polyurethane?

[Fricasseekid]

I think many people prefer a finish that shows the wood off in its natural state and without the long term 'have to sand it and refinish it' liability of polyurethane.

I like oil and wax finishes as I can just slap some more on and give it a quick rub if they start to look a bit daggy....which isn't something you can do with poly once it starts to show wear. This goes double for something like a table top which is going to cop a bit of abuse - once poly gets damaged, it's hello sandpaper!

I also prefer the smell of citrus/eucalyptus/beeswax over tolulene and all its little hydrocarbon friends! (Eucy based stuff in winter does wonders for the nose, so it's double acting!)

This makes good sense.

[jimbur]

What kind of problems?
So your a fan of polyurethane?
Exotic oils and waxes are ok as long as you stick to rubbing them on wood:D
My finish of choiice is french polish but it has its limitations. Big things like floors get polyurethane.
Cheers,
JIm

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I guess it's a case of selecting the right finish for the right job. And knowing what the benefits/advantages are to each different type of finish... and the dis-advantages.

I like peanut butter sandwiches, but that doesn't mean I'm going to use peanut butter on every sammich I make.

Many of us spend considerable periods of time and labour on small projects and to settle for a "quick stained finish" is sort of like painting a Rolls-Royce by brush with house-paint, y'know?

Personally, I like Tung Oil as not only is it "infinitely repairable" but it tends to make any figure pop while only darkening the timber marginally, leaving a gorgeous natural look.

Then again, when I'm laying/finishing a floor, other factors come into account. Such as how much the customer is willing to pay. PolyU is my main choice then. (You know the old saying? "Quick, cheap, good. Pick two." :D )

[Fricasseekid]

Exotic oils and waxes are ok as long as you stick to rubbing them on wood:D
My finish of choiice is french polish but it has its limitations. Big things like floors get polyurethane.
Cheers,
JIm

Well, they may not be good for all types of wood...

[Woodwould]

Polyurethane is like an egg shell; it performs respectably until it's damaged.

Any finish that doesn't require maintenance shouldn't be used on wood IMO. Take some of the modern lacquers for instance; they turn decent wood into Formica! Well, for the first five or ten years and after that it's all land fill.

Shellac has been used on floors since its discovery and it's one of the best floor finishes... if you're prepared to maintain it. An oil finish would also be an excellent choice for floors, but again, would require periodic attention.

Attempting to impermeably seal wood is a waste of effort as wood will do exactly what it wants and make a mockery of any 'perfect' film finish. A better approach to protecting and enhancing wood is to apply a finish (actually, that's really a redundant word because you're never really 'finished' with wood coatings) that is easily maintained.

Varnishes, unless of the long oil variety, are unlikely to remain intact and seal wood against the ingress of moisture and dirt, but long oil varnishes offer little protection against abrasion and damage. Knocks equal cracks in hard varnishes which wick in moisture and there's the finish and appearance gone! You can't win.

Plain, or slightly modified oil finishes are maintainable/repairable, as is shellac in all its forms.

[Nanigai]

One finish not mentioned yet is lacquer which I believe gives an excellent result if applied correctly. Huge problem for most though due to needing a booth or safe area to spray before you even discuss any other complications.:oo:

I settle for a Maloof style finish on most of my projects for several reasons.
Easy to apply, safe, no special equipment needed, no problems with contamination from dust etc, easy to repair/refinish and you are actually touching the wood when you run your hand over it or pick it up.:U
Rubbing it out can be energetic but you get out what you put in.

It's not the only finish out there but for amateur sawdust producers it is probably one of the best options out there.

[NZStu]

Lots of very good stuff.

:aro-u: I agree 100% with Woodwould on this. Any attempt to create a "bulletproof" surface will eventually result in disappointment.

My finish of choice is danish oil (and in particular a local product that is simply made up of tung oil, vege turps and driers). Easy to apply, looks good and easy to repair.

[StuartMcC]

Most people involved in a woodworking forum seem to like the natural oils and waxes because they look great and highlight the character of timber. As they're enthusiasts they don't mind that oils and waxes aren't very durable and need to be constantly maintained. In fact they probably enjoy rubbing their wood.

Shellac is good too - if you've got your technique down, don't mind an orange finish and won't ever get your timber wet.

Varnish is the most durable, easy to apply coating. Which accounts for why the shelves of hardware stores are packed with it. Does tinting a varnish with a stain have it's place? Only if you're after a mild tint. If you want deep colour, apply a spirit based stain directly to the timber and then apply a topcoat. Applying too much stain into a varnish will reduce the transparency of the mix and muddy the grain.

[Woodwould]

Shellac is good too - if you've got your technique down, don't mind an orange finish and won't ever get your timber wet.
Orange is only one of the colours of shellac; there's also clear/white, garnet, button etc.

How wet do you like your furniture to be? Do you slosh water over your oiled/varnished/lacquered furniture? I eat off a table that's finished with shellac and it gets wiped over with a wet cloth morning and evening. If you want a water resistant shellac finish, it's quite simple to modify the shellac or just buy some of U-Beaut's hard shellac.

If you regularly wipe down a scratched or dented varnished table with a wet cloth, the varnish will delaminate in a very short time.


Varnish is the most durable, easy to apply coating. Which accounts for why the shelves of hardware stores are packed with it.
All the manufacturers tell you that their varnish is easy to apply and it is, but getting good results is more difficult than with just about any other finish. If you're happy with a wrinkled, dust-nibbed, streaky appearance straight from the can, then yes, varnish is just the product for you. To obtain a decent finish with varnish involves slaving for days between coats, sanding, drying, more coating, more sanding and buffing.

The reason the shelves of hardware stores are packed with cans of varnish is twofold:


It's idiot proof – to a degree.
The instructions on the side of the can (1.Open can with screwdriver. 2. Brush varnish on. 3. Maaaaaybe sand between coats. 4. Try and wash brush.) look far less complicated to the average Joe than the instructions on the side of the bottle of poncy I'm-sure-I-need-to-learn-to-French-polish-first shellac.

[Fricasseekid]

I've never used a varnish before. Why would you want to mix stain with the varnish when you can just stain then varnish in a two coat process. Wouldn't the results be better that way? That's the way I usually do it with polyurethane and I have always had admirable results. How does the finish of a varnish compare to polyurethane?


I have a book shelf that I built in high school, it has been in continuous use for at least 12 years. I finished it with poly and I can't detect the slightest need for any maintenance.

[Fricasseekid]

But in the case where furniture is being sold; customers dont want to buy products that require constant maintenance. What finishes would you recommend then?

[Master Splinter]

Polyurethane. Quick to apply (with spray equipment) and quick to dry, and it dries nice and hard 'n glossy and you can put the piece on the showroom floor that afternoon.

Assuming it's something like a table in reasonable use in an average family, it'll look piano-gloss excellent for maybe a year or so, then it'll look good for another year or two or three, and by then (when the coating is damaged by use, is hazed by minute scratches from dragging things across it and wood movement or sap runs have opened up little fractures in the coating) no amount of Mr Sheen will make it look any better than just so-so.

People will just write this off as normal wear and tear and will buy another in a few more years.

[Woodwould]

Why would you want to mix stain with the varnish when you can just stain then varnish in a two coat process. Wouldn't the results be better that way?
Tinting varnish (or any type of coating) is the surest way to a disappointing finish. When the varnish is chipped or worn through on the highlights, the pale wood shows through accentuating the problem. Again, tinted varnish is used by the cheap end of industry and aimed at the DIY market where ignorant/lazy people want a one-shot coloured finish.



I have a book shelf that I built in high school, it has been in continuous use for at least 12 years. I finished it with poly and I can't detect the slightest need for any maintenance.
Bookshelves don't receive the same degree of wear and tear that chairs and tables do; in fact, they're seldom touched by anything, so it's understandable your bookshelf still looks the same after however many years.

I should have been clearer in my initial gambit; varnish is OK (if you like the look of varnish) for things like shelves, architraves etc. that aren't subject to wear and tear. It's only when varnish is handled and becomes damaged that it performs worse than just about any other finish.

[Fricasseekid]

So what do you guys think about a spar varnish like spar urethane?

[Woodwould]

Polyurethane is an excellent resin for making suspension bushes, but I can't recommend it for furniture coatings. PU varnish is an economical coating for manufacturers to produce and Joe can get a reasonable finish with it straight from the can.

Spar varnish is a long oil varnish, that is, it has a lot of oil in it which makes for a soft, flexible varnish. It was initially made for varnishing masts and spars on ships which, subjected to extreme fluctuating wet and dry conditions, were constantly swelling and shrinking. The soft, long oil varnish copes well with the expansion and contraction without cracking, thus it protects the timber. For this very reason, spar varnish is not a good varnish for indoor chairs and tables that will receive a lot of contact and handling – it's just too soft and would be easily damaged. It's an outdoor varnish and would be a fair choice for garden furniture – if you really want shiny garden furniture. But avoid spar varnish that contains PU.