Real Estate Agents [Archive]

Scribbly Gum

10th January 2012, 09:22 AM

To be fair to real estate agents - there are some that give all of them a bad name.
Real estate agencies provide a service that most people can't do for themselves. They try very hard to find a buyer for the property that you are selling, and they will do their best to find that dream property that you want to buy.
In every single case they have to try to get the ambitions of both the buyer and the seller to meet somewhere. If they do this then there is a sale.
The very hard part is in trying to get the two to meet.
Often the expectations of both - buyer and seller - are unrealistic.
It is a skilled agent who can facilitate this meeting.

The real estate market has been dismal over the last couple of years because there have been too many people who paid for their properties at the height of the boom and now need to sell it. And they cannot get what they paid for it.
Of course this must be the agent's fault.

I have a lot of time for good real estate agents - they have been faced with this dreadful market reality for the last two years - longer for some markets.
They are only paid from the commissions that their sales generate. Even those who are on a "salary" from their agencies have to reimburse the agency from the sales that they make. Some agents are on a commission only payment - no sales, no salary. Effectively they all are.

They work incredibly long hours, and get very little thanks for their efforts. Too many sellers blame the agents for not getting the price that they want - even if it was unrealistic to start with. Too many buyers blame the agent because they didn't get the bargain they were searching for.

On top of that - anyone with an agency has to wear all the costs of having an office, window advertising, clerical staff, insurances etc - whether or not sales are made.
One thing I will agree with, is that there are far too many real estate agents, and too may of these are non-professionals who think that selling real estate is easy.
These are the ones that give the genuine ones their undeserved bad name.

Just in case you were wondering - no I am not a real estate agent.

damian

10th January 2012, 09:42 AM

I'm no fan of estate agents but:

Stock on consignment is common practice.

It used to be that advertising was part of their commission. Somewhere along the way they conned that out as a seperate cost. The thing that amazes me most is that they get the seller to pay to advertise the AGENT, not the property. Look in the classifieds at those big colour pics of the agents ugly mugs. Remarkable.

Anyone who has worked a counter jobs knows that dealing with the public is truely horrendous. This is a big part of why you get such awful people going into public roles like politics and real estate. If you haven't done that sort of work you truely would not believe the way some people behave.

I'd rather wade into a sewer...:)

I happen to have my land listed with a real estate who is atypical. Possibly not perfect by a real person rather than the plastic super salesperson you normally get. Good agents are rare but do exist.

Cliff Rogers

10th January 2012, 09:54 AM

I am married to one.

Like all 'professions' they do have their share of slime balls & the slime balls are usually doing the dirty on other agents rather than the buyers/vendors.
There are a few who manage to burn a client because they are crook, but most of them who do that do so out of ignorance.

It makes it a pretty thankless job & not as easy as some people think.

As a computer tech, I certainly didn't have to study as hard or do so many 'weird' modules of training just to get a licence to do my job.

I also do not have any legal forms that have to be filled out & filled out correctly. (or risk loosing the sale/commission or getting fined)

I don't have to worry about getting a surprise visit & audits by the office of fair trading.

People in general do not like real estate agents so they tend to treat them very poorly.

As the spouse of a real estate agent, I have been on the end of some of that abuse from asreholes who think that they can ring an agent at home at any time of the day or night & expect the person who happens to answer the phone (me) to be able to tell them what they demand to know about a piece of property that is for or has just been sold.
As well as having no respect for the agent, most of them have absolutely no regard for privacy or the restraints that privacy laws put on non-disclosure of information &/or duty of care for property/processions for sale.

Most people are under the serious misapprehension that real estate agents do not work for their money.... if that were the case, we would have a lot more real estate agents than we currently do.

The ones that survive have to be good at their job if they are going to be there for the long haul.

They can have their job, the hours suck.

_fly_

10th January 2012, 12:55 PM

I've also invited a few for a valuation. You know the little card that turns up in the letterbox. :we're in the area ...". You let them in and they walk around and then ask you what you want for it. I then take them to the door and say 'thanks, bye'. They wonder why... They are giving the valuation not asking me what I want for it. There are still enough rogues that are cheating people out of their homes when they say they want $X for it and the agent buys it roundabout (not meant to) when they know its worth twice as much. I have a house at the end of the street that has been for sale for 8 months. Its been thru 7 agents as well. They told the couple that they could get 650k if they sign up. Not in a pink fit is it worth that. Current agent has it listed for 540k and its still not sold. they will tell you anything to sign you up. They also take these on at a high price so they can show it to people and then show them the cheaper one around the corner. Makes the customer think they are getting a bargain, Around the corner for 100 thou less. They would have been selling used cars if they were not in this game. Last house I bought I put an offer in and of course someone else came later that day and put in a higher offer, what do I want to do they ask. I tell them OK, Bye. They ring back the day after telling me that the other peoples finance fell thru. LIARS. REMEMBER they are there for themselves first, the seller second and the customer buying is the MUG that must be conned.

Cliff Rogers

10th January 2012, 02:36 PM

Very general & not all true.:no:

You should avoid branding & lambasting a whole profession based on your bad experience. :cool:

You call them liars... the funny thing is, the old blokes have this saying "Buyers are liars" :)

artme

10th January 2012, 04:50 PM

Ooooh I love stirring the possum!!:D

Suspected I would get replies from certain people. QED.

My wife was an agent but the firm closed down. Like Cliff I do know the rotten hours that are worked and the - sometimes - thankless task it is due to rudeness of buyers and vendors.

My main gripes at the moment concern:

Agents deliberately driving down prices to get quick sale
The idea that at an open house the policy is not to escort the potential buyers through the residence. This means that things don,t get explained fully AND it leaves a property owner vulnerable to theft.
The lack of info on "For Sale" signs. Read Damien's post.

At the moment there is a drastic lack of rental places on the Gold Coast, according to the Gold Coast Bulletin. House building across Australia is almost at a standstill and yet we have a deficit of some 230 000 houses in the country according to som sources.

So why are prices so depressed.:?

Greg Ward

10th January 2012, 05:37 PM

Aust prices especially in the cities are not depressed, they are 'static' but they need around a 30% fall to find their real value..... well that's my belief in any event.

As an aside, last night on the ABC news it was reported that Chinese house prices have fallen 30% in the past 6 months, with the comment "something similar to the fall that occurred across America several years ago'.

Don't think it can't happen here, let's hope it occurs gradually not in a bubble burst.
They only thing holding up house prices in the influx of migrants and the shortage of stock, and the reason stock is short is because govt regulations on infrastructure and green homes and local services have forced house construction and land costs up to stupid levels, so that most on normal wages can't afford to purchase without great effort and both partners working.

If it wasn't for the mining boom, they would be much lower already.
Greg

_fly_

10th January 2012, 05:52 PM

Your right,
These are based on my and friends interactions with the profession.
I'm sure there are a few honest ones around.
But its a bit like honest car mechanics. Took me 34 years to find one of those I could trust.

Very general & not all true.:no:

You should avoid branding & lambasting a whole profession based on your bad experience. :cool:

You call them liars... the funny thing is, the old blokes have this saying "Buyers are liars" :)

rustynail

10th January 2012, 06:20 PM

Much of Europe shows little interest in the purchase of ones own home. The reasons are many and varied; unstable government, war, economic down turn, itinerant population, the list goes on. Many of these factors have, until now, been unknown in Australia. Things are starting to change. The good old 9% per annum increase in home value has become a thing of the past and the only thing holding the property market together is limited supply.
Having recently sold property,I am well aware of the different standards of professionalism displayed by different agents. Over a period of four years and four agents the sale was finally made at an acceptable price. Unfortunately my first choice of agent was killed in a farm accident not long into our contract. I have little doubt he had the goods to do the job. Then followed another two who showed little if any marketing skill whatsoever. Constant recommendation of price reduction was their major marketing tool. The final agent, who, I must point out, stepped up to the plate right at the worst of our recent real estate slump. New to the area and with no fanfare, he set about establishing new marketing programs and several new ideas for finding prospective buyers. I was impressed and after what had been a long and fruitless period, was not overly supprised when lookers started to become a bit thicker on the ground. Within three months the property was sold. At the asking price. Upon asking the buyer, after the sale was completed, what his reasoning had been he replied, "A good property and a good agent." I think he was right on the money.

corbs

10th January 2012, 06:59 PM

When I was selling a house over west a few years ago, SWMBO and I went to find an agent to move the property. I was just wearing a pair of tracksuit pants and t-shirt, Lisa was dressed better:wink:. With the first few we met the first thing they asked us was if we were looking for places to rent. Their interest level increased significantly when we indicated we had a house to sell but then were upset when I told them they weren't going to get it due to their initial attitude towards us. The agent which got the house treated us with respect from the moment we walked in the door.

There are good ones and bad ones, the ones I don't like dont get my business:wink:

_fly_

10th January 2012, 07:05 PM

I remember trying to buy a new car when I was 20 (30 years ago). All the dealer kept saying was go get a price and we'll beat it. He would not even give me the full RRP. I then started to tell him that even for 200 dollars more I'd rather buy it from the other guy. He told me I was crazy (not a good way to deal with a customer). I told him at least the other guy is decent enough to give me a price. Lets start talking about banks. I'm not keen on those either.

artme

10th January 2012, 07:34 PM

With regard to your car buying experience _fly_, a recent acqaintance described real estate agents as "car salesmen without money".!

munruben

10th January 2012, 08:21 PM

My daughter was a real estate agent in Sydney up until 10 years ago. and believe me it is hard work. Long hours, seven days a week. Its strange that a seller always blames the real estate agent when the property doesn't sell. My daughter found that in most cases the reason they don't sell is simply, they are overpriced. In her experience, every property will sell at the right price. Unfortunately some sellers believe their properties to be worth more than they really are.

Sometimes there is a method in the agents so called madness in asking a vendor what figure he/she has in mind. Too many times my daughter had vendors who thought their properties was worth thousands more than they were and to list sellers who have that idea in mind was just a waste of her time to take a listing of the property.

Real estate agents valuations are based on the current market trends and estimates are calculated on these facts. Not much point in asking $600Ks for one property if a similar property in the same area has just sold for $450ks many sellers cannot come to terms with that fact.

Some vendors don't realise the agent cannot force buyers to meet the price the seller is asking if the property is over priced and is not in the interest of the agent to over price a property for that reason. The agent wants to make the sale too and is also in their interest to make as much money as they can of the property within reason.

The property market, contrary to what some experts may tell us, in an effort to keep prices buoyant, is currently in a slump, hence the slow turnover of properties.

My son has his property on the market and it has been for the last 12 months. My daughter told him it would not sell at the price he is trying to get for it and sure enough, it hasn't, it is simply over priced.

When property prices boom and property prices go through the roof and the seller can get more or less the inflated price he/she wants for the property, these same vendors who call them crooks now are happy to call them great agents or salesmen/women at the time they put their cheque in the bank with a nice big whopping profit they have made on their original purchase.

We just have to come to terms with the fact that it is a cycle that goes around. one day its a buyers market another day its a sellers market. Today, is a buyers market.

For those of you who call real estate agents liars. Would you really like them to tell the complete truth about some of the aspects of the property you might be selling. I don't think so. come on guys, lets not be childish about this.."oh the salesman told me a fib" Join the real world.

damian

11th January 2012, 10:55 AM

Your right,
These are based on my and friends interactions with the profession.
I'm sure there are a few honest ones around.
But its a bit like honest car mechanics. Took me 34 years to find one of those I could trust.

Now your stepping on my toes :)

First mechanics: Motor mechanic is the second lowest paid trade. I don't think any of the boys I attended tech with are still doing it. I got out as soon as I had my papers. The reason your repair bills are so high are twofold: ridiculous government regulations and anyone decent getting out of the trade. If the trade was more attractive you'd get a better quality of mechanic.

In truth there are plenty of good ones but they have a full compliment of customers and don't have to advertise for more.

Housing: First thing you need to realise is most of the people offering commentry on real estate (and most other things) have an agenda. The HIA and rp data both try to talk up the market to encourage people to buy.

Australia has the least dense housing in the world, more m^2 per person than the USA and bigger houses. Sure supply and deemand come into it but affordability matters also. If you can't afford the mcmansion you buy the bungalow/townhouse/flat, move further out from the CBD. We simply don't have a shortage of housing, what we have is less m^2 per person than in RECENT history. I came from a family of 3 boys, we lived in an 8 sq 2 bed house. That was normal then, nowdays people "think" they need 4 beds and 200 spm.

The housing market has seen 4 downturns in my lifetime. On each occasion prices surged well about the 3.5 long term multiple, fell between 10 and 20% then went flat till wages caught up. I see no reason why this time will be different. The only thing that was ever going to produce the 40% fall predicted by some was high unemployment levels, and the only thing that will boost housing prices again will be increases in real wages.

I resent the politically expedient labour policy a few years back with the $21k first home buyers bankrupcy invitation, er I mean grant. I am sure it provided a good opportunity for some but for most it simply compels them to buy a home they cannot afford, lose it and their life savings and go through tremendous pain.

Australia at one stage had the most mobile population in the western world. It is more likely the difference between us and europe is political stability and affordability.

Real estate agents I think reflect the culture of the area they work in. In regional areas where everyone knows each other you can get a way with a lot less. I have written before in what I see as the advantages of these communities. In a well off area like mine you get a disproportionate number of super salespeople and it is amusing to see the tiers of bad behaviour with bad real estate agents complaining about even worse agents. The lady I gave my business to has been in our little enclave for 20 years. shes pretty straight up and of course interested in stability. There are others whose behaviour even surprises cynical old me :)

Finally, I bought a new car 2 years ago. I was amazed at how poor a service I recieved from people potentially wanting to take $30,000 of my money. I get better service spending $5 on a hamburger.

But as I say, would you do that job ?

Sebastiaan56

12th January 2012, 08:27 AM

I resent the politically expedient labour policy a few years back with the $21k first home buyers bankrupcy invitation, er I mean grant. I am sure it provided a good opportunity for some but for most it simply compels them to buy a home they cannot afford, lose it and their life savings and go through tremendous pain.

It also pushed up the price of every house by $21k. Now that its gone the market has pulled it back.

A good friend of mine runs an independent agency with a lot of integrity and professionally. As with all businesses there are all sorts out there.

acmegridley

12th January 2012, 11:08 AM

From my experience (I,ve bought and sold a few properties over the years) they are usually failed used car salesmen,takes a lot of work to separate the chaff from the hay.My next door neighbour when I lived in Sydney was a real estate agent as well as a migration agent.She offered to sell our property at a reduced rate ,so like an idiot I agreed to it,When we finally sold our property ,she really performed when I would not pay her commission immediately after the sale,instead of waiting till everything was settled.Her live in boyfriend (great bloke) showed me a letter she had written for some poor Indian sucker ,no more than two paragraphs charged the poor b..... $1800.He didnt hang around long after that,couldnt stand her lies and deception.One open day on our property I as usual departed and left her to it but went and sat in her garage where I could see how many lookers she got,(only one)after the alloted time I walked around the corner as if I had been for a walk and on arrival at home asked her how the open day went,"Great" she said "had such and such interest from so and so, etc etc ,I'll give you a report as soon as I type it up"
Well what a load of b......t she had in in it .Two pages of utter crap.At least twelve people gave opinions ,what an imaginition !!!! All this from one looker!!
When I confronted her and told her what I had done, did she perform again"Don't you trust me",etc etc,shaking like a leaf all the time we were arguing ,relations were never the same, but it stopped all her bull... from then on,and eventually we had a good outcome and sold the place well over the reserve.:(

_fly_

12th January 2012, 06:12 PM

damian

13th January 2012, 12:27 PM

I've not only heard those stories I've experienced them. I remember sitting waiting for my car at a certain repair place in brisbane and they were talking to another customer. Read out a list of things "wrong" with his commodore. By the time they were finished it was about $3800! and he said better get it done! More than teh car was worth.

Sigh, it's painful.

It's all well and good to say do your job properly but as I say anyone that concientious can make more money for less effort elsewhere. I make about double what a mechanic makes sitting in an air conditioned office, no skin problems, no heavy lifting, no hot (or cold) workshops, no getting abused by unreasonable customers (I could tell you some stories).

Banks are certainly mon...well insert adjective of your choice, but you have to remember they aren't community organisations, they are private companies, ruthless and totally committed to making as large a profit as they can. The ONLY way to hurt them is take your money elsewhere. Complaining might make you (us!) feel better but it doesn't actually change anything.

Bit like elections.

_fly_

13th January 2012, 01:27 PM

I like to beat banks at their own game. I remember trying to take 2000 bucks out from a different state bank in those days. They told me I couldn't take more than 500 unless it was my home branch. They offered a bank chq. Told me it was as good as cash. And in those days it was instantly cleared. As the money was for my GF at the time to buy a car I had no idea who to make it out to. So I had it made out to cash and was warned what would happen if I lost it. I then said that seeing I was working in the area an account at their branch was a good idea and proceeded to open an account. when she asked me how much I wanted to open it for I said 2000 and handed over their own bank chq. Can you see where this will lead??. As soon the as account was opened I proceeded to tell her that seeing this was my home branch I wanted to close the account and could I have my money in cash. I have never ever had a dirtier look than that woman at South Yarra State bank gave me. She new she couldn't do anything about it. I also never pay for bank chq's. I tell them to put the cash on the counter. I f they want to GIVE me a chq so they don't miscount and because its easier for them then I'll take it but I will not pay for their convenience. Manager always says ok. If they want to give me 20,000 cash (and one did, house deposit) then I don't have any trouble walking around with it. Think that manager was trying to call my bluff.

Sturdee

13th January 2012, 03:43 PM

If they want to give me 20,000 cash (and one did, house deposit) then I don't have any trouble walking around with it. Think that manager was trying to call my bluff.

I can just see you standing at the counter, the teller handing out 20,000 in bundles and not counting it and then you laboriously count every bundle (twice for accuracy) whilst the que is getting bigger and bigger waiting for the teller that you still occupy. :D:D:D:D

Peter.

Handyjack

14th January 2012, 07:13 AM

When can we start on Banks....? OK back to motor mechanics, One of the mobile mechanic mobs had the practice of telling you that you needed new brakes shoes. They took them out, spray painted them black and put them back in and then charge you for 4 sets of shoes. A friend of mine worked for them and it was std practice, was told to do it. I took my car for a service at a chain store mechanics. Told them it was hard to start. Got car back with a nice sheet with all the things they had done in the service, All ticked as done. When I got home it was still hard to start. The battery had no water in 2 cells, The radiator had little water. I rang and asked what else they didn't do and they said they were the only 2 things they had not done. I then asked them how they checked the tyre pressure in a flat spare? and why was the tyre pressures on the car all different as if they hadn't been done. Thats why I'm so glad I finally found one I can trust. But my father still goes to them and he's happy with them. Doesn't matter how much you get paid. Thats no excuse to do a bad job. Don't like the job, get a different one. But if your being paid to do a job, do it properly. I really want to do banks...........

Two experiences with car service. 1/ replace windscreen wiper rubbers. Charge for three rubbers - car only had two wipers. 2/ One of the wheel nuts on the car was missing a dome, so I bought a replacement from spare parts when I dropped the car off for service. Nut went into the glovebox. When I picked up the car they had replaced the wheel nut on the car - now this is where things get interesting. They charged me for the wheel nut - MORE than what I had paid the previous day at their own spare parts counter. I complained to the service manager who then took off the wheel nut that the service team had put on and replaced it with the one I had purchased and placed in the glovebox.

Now both these things happened over 20 years ago but it makes you wonder what other money making scams go on.

Grumpy John

15th January 2012, 05:37 PM

Sturdee

15th January 2012, 06:08 PM

I've always thought that there is a certain amount of "conflict of interest" associated with real estate agents. At the same time they are supposed to get the best price for the seller and get the best deal for the buyer.

I disagree.

Real estate agents only act in the interest of the seller/landlord. They don't and never have acted in the interest of the buyer/tenant. It's a buyer beware situation and the only requirement they have in respect of the buyer/tenant is that they act within the law.

Getting a best price for a buyer is not what they have to do, in fact getting the worst deal for the buyer, and as such the best for the seller - their employer, is their job.

If a buyer/tenant wants help in negotiating with a real estate deal/tenancy then they should be prepared to hire a buyers agent.

Peter.

Cliff Rogers

15th January 2012, 10:41 PM

Yup.

The Vendor is the one who is paying the agent, not the buyer.

If it all works as it should, the buyer approaches an agent with a criteria in mind & the agents attemps to find the 'best fit' for that criteria from what they have listed on their books.

Sometimes, a buyer will approach an agent & say that they would like to buy a particular property that isn't listed for sale & ask the agent to approach the owner to ask if they would sell.
The vendor will still be the one paying the agent.

damian

17th January 2012, 10:05 AM

I've always thought that there is a certain amount of "conflict of interest" associated with real estate agents. At the same time they are supposed to get the best price for the seller and get the best deal for the buyer. Very often a no win situation and from what some other forum members have written an often thankless task.

Damian, where did you glean this piece of information from, and what is the lowest paid trade?

Agents work for the seller not the buyer. If a buyer wants a representative they hire a buyers agent, which is becoming more popular.

I don't recall, I just remember hearing it from several independant sources, probably including my teck teachers.

The lowest was aircraft fitter. Good eh ? :)

I had a long chat to one of the ladies at my CU yesterday. I don't often contact them but I'd managed to forget my internety password. Anyway after chatting about my accounts for a while she suggested several options for me to feel more secure about the money I have on deposit. We also had a bit of a chat about how everyone at the CU was going. Friendly, everything on a first name basis, and later I emailed to confirm what I wanted done. This am a reply to confirm my instructions are being attended to. No fees, no hassle.

20 years, 1 account, 0 problems.

Bushmiller

17th January 2012, 05:52 PM

I can empathise with almost every post made in this thread and, to a degree, agree with much of what has been said.

It caused me to sit back and examine why we become so agitated about these occupations. In particular, why are we more agravated than with experiences at the supermarket or the hardware store?

In fact we do become displeased with hardware stores too and we frequently read discussion on the forums regarding their various experiences.

I think the reason is that these experiences have an important impact on our lives. With hardware it is affecting our hobby, which frequently is a passion of the first order. With the professions it is a significant aspect of our lives, both emotionally and financially.

So the categories would include, but are not limited to, estate agents, car salesmen, lawyers, doctors and dentists. The latter categories I include without compunction as they lost respect when the dollar became their driving force.

The truth is that all these occupations have good and bad operators and equally they have to deal with difficult customers, clients and patients. But the consequences of a bad experience in these areas can change your life.

It is probably this last statement that can make us so vitrioloic. Most of us don't get too upset if we buy a punnet of strawberries and they turn out to be over ripe. Just as an aside, that is not true of SWMBO, who will metamorphose into a screaming banshee for fifteen to thirty minutes without drawing breath. (This fact leads me to believe she missed her true vocation in life as a sponge diver:wink:.) It apparantly gets her goat.:(

In my extended family there are several estate agents, a couple of lawyers a dentist etc etc. I am neither exonerating them nor condeming them.

Someone else alluded to "caveat emptor" (let the buyer beware) and as always we should bear that firmly in mind. Be very wary of people who tell you what you want to hear. Evaluate your own situation to the best of your ability and if you are not comfortable with that get impartial advice. (Sometimes I wish I would take my own advice:-)

Having said all that, during this last year I have "sacked" both a dentist and a doctor. I was unhappy with aspects of the service they gave. All of you can do the same with the occupations discussed in this thread. There are good people out there and it is probably easier for those of you who live in the major communities to find those people.

If we don't hunt around for good service from ethical businesses we can hardly complain.

Regards
Paul

A Duke

17th January 2012, 09:59 PM

Bushmiller

17th January 2012, 10:42 PM

"and if you are not comfortable with that get impartial advice. (Sometimes I wish I would take my own advice:-)"
One could interpret that as the oxymoron of all time.
Or is that just me being twisted.
Regards

Hugh

Umm.. I think I see what you mean. "Impartial" and "my own.":D:D. I think this just confirms the oxymoron of "male intelligence.":wink:

Regards
Paul

Cliff Rogers

17th January 2012, 10:46 PM

If we don't hunt around for good service from ethical businesses we can hardly complain.
Nailed it. :2tsup:

Cliff Rogers

17th January 2012, 10:47 PM

...I think this just confirms the oxymoron of "male intelligence."....
Is that 'female logic?' :?

_fly_

17th January 2012, 11:22 PM

If we don't hunt around for good service from ethical businesses we can hardly complain.
Paul
This is true but you may buy strawberries and food twice a week, So you can go to a fruit shop or coles or woolies. But when you get car serviced each 6 months it takes a long time to find one you can trust (that does not still mean honest).
Thats the bit that gets annoying.
Secondly it seems that the proportion is also wrong, bad strawberries once every 20 punnets is 5%, I'd say that trustworthy tradies (I'll expand the list) is the much smaller minority.
What I have worked out and I'd like to see what other think, If someone says to you "I'm not going to rip you off" (in some form or other 'I'll do a good job at a fair price'), They are telling you that they will rip you off, they will do the opposite. I've had it with plumbers, fencers and mechanics and sparkies. The ones who don't say that are usually better. Get verbal quote for 80 an hour, do 3 hrs work and get a bill for 475. I've got to get written quotes, They then don't want the job.......

Bushmiller

18th January 2012, 10:00 AM

Is the 'female logic?' :?

Cliff

My firm belief, without any proof, is that it came from a female of the species and a fairly disillusioned, possibly scorned one at that. The statement may well be both an example of "female logic" and a retaliation all rolled into one.:wink:

I hadn't realised exactly which can of worms I was opening when I said that:D.

Regards
Paul

Cliff Rogers

18th January 2012, 11:52 AM

Just another oxymoron. :D

Bushmiller

18th January 2012, 12:25 PM

This is true but you may buy strawberries and food twice a week, So you can go to a fruit shop or coles or woolies. But when you get car serviced each 6 months it takes a long time to find one you can trust (that does not still mean honest).
Thats the bit that gets annoying.
Secondly it seems that the proportion is also wrong, bad strawberries once every 20 punnets is 5%, I'd say that trustworthy tradies (I'll expand the list) is the much smaller minority.
What I have worked out and I'd like to see what other think, If someone says to you "I'm not going to rip you off" (in some form or other 'I'll do a good job at a fair price'), They are telling you that they will rip you off, they will do the opposite. I've had it with plumbers, fencers and mechanics and sparkies. The ones who don't say that are usually better. Get verbal quote for 80 an hour, do 3 hrs work and get a bill for 475. I've got to get written quotes, They then don't want the job.......

Fly

I agree and that was part of my point. For most, a house purchase is the largest financial transaction in their lives. Buying a car is the next largest. The consequences are so much larger than the purchase of groceries.

In the medical arena the consequences are potentially disasterous or even life threatening.

The mechanics and tradies are all tacked on to the backs of the houses and cars and perpetuate our miseries if they too are bad.

I wish to amend my earlier statement on dentists and doctors. I parted company with one dentist and two doctors last year. I really hope that I don't have to go through the same process this year. They were either arrogant, mercenary or forgot who was the customer.

It doesn't mean I have this view of all medical practioners.

I am becoming increasingly intolerant of poor service no matter what field it may be in. I am, in a constructive way, attempting to do something about it. I have to say that it is frequently inconvenient and almost always expensive.

Regards
Paul

Sturdee

18th January 2012, 01:22 PM

So to sum up this thread, ignoring the grocery shopping and other red herrings thrown in :

For most, a house purchase is the largest financial transaction in their lives.
Paul

and unless it's a new house, bought direct from a builder, it is second hand one. Bit like buying something from Ebay in that you rely on the opinion of a seller's agent who

are there for themselves first, the seller second and the customer buying is the MUG that must be conned.

so if the agent conned you

.."oh the salesman told me a fib" Join the real world.

don't complain and employ your own buying agent.

Would you buy a second hand bomb from a shady car dealer without checks, well the same goes for buying a house.

Buyer beware.

Peter.

Twisted Tenon

19th January 2012, 10:14 PM

Real estate and cars are very emotive subjects, and good salesmen sell the sizzle and not the sausage :D There's always going to be tears with these two.

TT

Cliff Rogers

19th January 2012, 10:22 PM

Depends on your definition of 'good'.

There are good ones who make a dollar & don't care & then there are good ones who get return business over the years.

Twisted Tenon

19th January 2012, 10:29 PM

Depends on your definition of 'good'.

There are good ones who make a dollar & don't care & then there are good ones who get return business over the years.

Fair point. It was a subjective statement, as is this debate.

TT

damian

23rd January 2012, 10:59 AM

First, I'm really sick at the moment, but I'm still going to post :)

Second this is probably going to take this further off topic and afield. Apologies in advance, but hopefully you'll see why I feel I should comment.

One of the great rules of life is you reap what you sow.

I often bang on about politicians being a symptom of a disengaged and unsophistocated electorate. People rail against them because they are on show, but they aren't the root of the problem, if people really could be bothered they would vote for better representatives.

Some decades back clever clever people changed the marraige rules and now we have that awful family law system. Result ? and man with half a brain thinks twice before exposing himself emotionally or financially to any woman.

(wait for it, the point is getting closer now...)

Over the we have become increasingly litigious and far less grateful. I recall having dinner with a bunch of doctors a few years back and the whole nights conversation was insurance premiums, litigation, overheads. The reality is we engineers make far more money after costs than most "normal" doctors (by that I mean all areas of the profession, but not those who've gone into the business side in a big way). They work longer hours, and frankly if I had to deal with the clinet/staff/regulation issues they face there would be a massacre within hours.

Dentistry is worse. Engineering has the highest suicide rate while studying of any profession, but I believe dentistry is top or close in practice. I'm told they link it to inflicting pain on people day in day out (and that's just the bill..boom boom).

It gets talked about a lot, but it bears repeating.

A very great many people in western society and particularly here expect everything to go their way, and for someone else to pay if it doesn't. I'd been bending people's ears about the brisbane floods for the last 15 years and the number of times they'd just look at me like an alien.. then when it all goes pear shaped they whinge. I tell them about my experiences with insurance companies, she'll be right. No cover, whinge...

I was born in north queensland. Home Hill floods about every 15 years. People just get on with it. I grew up in the western suburbs of sydney, and when I was young the georges river would come up about every 6, same houses flooded every time. They chucked out the damaged stuff, brushed themselves off and got on with it.

The media would have us believe Australia is a better place than it was in the 70's. That isn't my memory. I recall a time when nearly anyone who wanted a job had one, when one could have a decent standard of living on a labourers wages, and when it was quite common to find a millionaire and a cleaner standing side by side burning sausages together on a saturday arvo. for one would trade the skinnychinolatte foccacia and biscotti for a bit of those times back again.

Anyway the point is, don't believe what anyone tells you. Read your contracts, research your purchases, and only part with your hard earned when your sure. Your an adult, take responsibility.

Better climb down off my soapbox, air is thin up here :)

jimbur

23rd January 2012, 11:23 AM

Damian, you're right in many ways about the equality of people back then. I remember one bloke at a place I worked. The boss had asked him for references and he said, "you can have them when you give me references from three blokes who have worked for you". The boss laughed and took him on. He was a good worker by the way.
I know things are different but these days things like resumés seem more important than the people behind them.
Cheers,
Jim

acmegridley

23rd January 2012, 04:37 PM

Most of the family Law was drafted by Justice Elizabeth Evatt so what chance do you have?:((

Twisted Tenon

23rd January 2012, 09:22 PM

I often bang on about politicians being a symptom of a disengaged and unsophisticated electorate. People rail against them because they are on show, but they aren't the root of the problem, if people really could be bothered they would vote for better representatives.

At the end of the day we only get to vote for those whom the parties put forward, which is why we got a plethora of independents elected this time around.:-

The media would have us believe Australia is a better place than it was in the 70's. That isn't my memory. I recall a time when nearly anyone who wanted a job had one,

You're darn right about that, those times will never be repeated in a 1st world country, until the 3rd world countries have caught up.

TT

acmegridley

23rd January 2012, 09:52 PM

Now the Japanese banks are starting on us:(

artme

24th January 2012, 10:21 AM

W're getting right off track here fellas.!

damian

24th January 2012, 10:40 AM

W're getting right off track here fellas.!

Really? !

What gave it away ?

munruben

24th January 2012, 10:43 AM

Anyway the point is, don't believe what anyone tells you. Read your contracts, research your purchases, and only part with your hard earned when your sure. Your an adult, take responsibility.

Agree wholeheartedly:2tsup::2tsup:

munruben

24th January 2012, 10:44 AM

W're getting right off track here fellas.!See what you started Arthur :)

damian

24th January 2012, 10:46 AM

At the end of the day we only get to vote for those whom the parties put forward, which is why we got a plethora of independents elected this time around.:-

I wasn't referring to party vs independant, I was refering to the quality of the candidates. People vote for the leaders, very few bother to really look at the local candidate whether ind or party sponsored. That, IMO, is the essence of the problem.

See "Yes Minsiter, local government"

You're darn right about that, those times will never be repeated in a 1st world country, until the 3rd world countries have caught up.

TT

Or until we reverse "free trade" and globalisation. Again those with a voice want to convince us we're better off. We've traded australian manufacturing for houses full of chinese junk. Even a surprising amount of our food is now imported. I reckon if they could figure a way to import minerals before selling them off they'd be doing that aswell...

anyway, I should just shut up...

Twisted Tenon

24th January 2012, 09:00 PM

I wasn't referring to party vs independant, I was refering to the quality of the candidates. People vote for the leaders, very few bother to really look at the local candidate whether ind or party sponsored. That, IMO, is the essence of the problem.

So was I damian, we are becoming more presidential in our electoral system. When I realised that only a small amount of people in each party branch vote for the candidate that is put forward to the electorate, I was dismayed and have often voted for the independent. Often an electorate will have a party room hack foisted onto it.

Or until we reverse "free trade" and globalisation. Again those with a voice want to convince us we're better off. We've traded australian manufacturing for houses full of chinese junk. Even a surprising amount of our food is now imported. I reckon if they could figure a way to import minerals before selling them off they'd be doing that aswell...

Sadly I think it is too late to shut the gate now. We should as a country be finding ways of turning our minerals and ore into the finished product and selling that to the world.

TT