Jarrah problem...desparately need HELP....

[kekemo]

YEP... you must be kidding me... understand why I use PINE!!!

I'm totally stumped...

OK.. have posted pictures... you can see this problem little clearer now...

These are 8 rungs to 4 steps...
plained back, squared up... now sanded back.... wanted to fill cracks as I'm sealing with Cabot's Exterior Clear... Marine grade.. Satin... need really good surface to adhere the self adhesive to... (no gaps under it... no where the air could surface up & cause lifting..)...plus wanted the timber to seal... as its outside didn't want it cracking anymore... (yes I know it will need 12 months regular overhaul... that's a for-gone conclusion..) BUT BUT BUT... look at the colour difference in the timber filler...

Using.. intergrain... as recommended by Cabot... (couldn't believe my luck today when Cabot rep was in store... fantastic advise... but I don't think this looks too good...
Am I being too fussy... how many putties would I have to try before it blends or will that darken when I apply the Cabot's clear....
..... just don't know... don't want to go any further until I can get some idea....

PLEASE ALL YOU JARRAH GUY & GAL'S HELP ME>>>>>
I don't want to be put off jarrah for rest of my life...
Desparately seeking your help...

Flying solo...and now doing Jarrah woodwork by the seat of my pants... mmm great ..."STUPID WOMAN"... stick to Pine, I hear myself whisper...!!!!

PICTURES>>>>>
OK various pictures of Jarrah.. I've not stained any as yet..... I've only just wiped over with wet rag to give colour effect & can see the putty/filler stands out like dogs b...'s well you know what I mean...

HELP HELP.. what can I expect if I continue & then apply clear stain... or do I find another putty... how can you match Jarrah colour ???? ... I'm lost at this game... ready to concede... want to run & hide in corner & not come out to play.... DRAT DRAT DRAT...

YES.. that putty looks horrible.... still looks split... but its got filler in... truly ... I'm just not happy with it... DO I leave gaps & just fill them with stain... PERPLEXED..... ! ! ! ! ! ! !

[Master Splinter]

Generally, the colour you see when you hit it with water or solvent will be the colour you'll get when clear finished.

With jarrah, I find the best approach is to mix up epoxy with a tiny bit of red and black tinters to give a slightly transparent, sap-run like colour, and fill with that. Stands out but looks natural. I've never really been overly impressed with the result of filling with a 'matching' colour.

The existing filler can be gouged out with a fine knife blade or a small sharp nail or stout needle.

[ian]

If you intend staining the Jarrah, do that before applying the filler.

or do yuou mean stain the filler?
You will need to mix different fillers and probably stains to gbet the colour you want. I've found that a white glazed tile helps to get teh colour right (make sure you match the stain type -- water or spirit -- with your filler)

[kekemo]

Seems that the colour of the jarrah filler will stay that colour... & I'm taking it back to Bunnings... totally unbelievable.. since when has Jarrah been light crimson pink... same as this emotive face ...:- in fact almost lighter... JARRAH IS DEEPER RED... ALMOST BLACK RED...
totally dissatisfied with the result.. expensive as ####... going back!!!!

Mr Cabot rep... you let me down.... I shall not be beaten.. still has to be better solution...

Cheers... thanks... KEKEMO... alis ShedLady...

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Yeah, pre-tinted fillers tend to be a major disappointment. :((

Probably because even the timber off one tree often comes in a whole slew of different shades.

I have 4 or 5 tinted fillers that I use, Jarrah, Rosewood, Mahogany, etc. but I do not use them straight out of the pack. Instead, I put a small amount onto a scrap offcut of whatever I'm staining and then play around adding drops of food colouring to "get it right."

This means I spend more time mixing than using, but it also means I can match the colour to the piece I'm currently working on way more closely. :;

And when I can't colour-match the timber itself, I'll go for matching existing stains or flecks in the timber.

[ian]

Seems that the colour of the jarrah filler will stay that colour... & I'm taking it back to Bunnings... totally unbelievable.. since when has Jarrah been light crimson pink... same as this emotive face ...:- in fact almost lighter... JARRAH IS DEEPER RED... ALMOST BLACK RED...
totally dissatisfied with the result.. expensive as ####... going back!!!!

Mr Cabot rep... you let me down.... I shall not be beaten.. still has to be better solution...

Cheers... thanks... KEKEMO... alis ShedLady...sorry ShedLady, but why is this Cabot's or Bunning's problem
Jarrah comes in a range of colours, only one of which is almost black red.
If you're not prepared to mix stains into the filler to get an acceptable colour match why are you using filler in the first place?

Seems to me that the Jarrah filler you have plus the right dye will give you the colour match you're after.

[sCORCH]

Hi there,

Like you, I have found that the "jarrah" tinted filler/putty has a tendancy to be a bit too light red for most jarrah timbers (at least the ones I have got).

However, be aware as others have said that Jarrah does come in a wide variety of different grades, shades and depths. Some of those are nearly pink.

For the darker jarrah, I mixed two putties (Timbermate) together - the Jarrah and the Walnut. This gave it a much darker hue which I found more consistent with the timber I was using at the time. It took a little trial and error but got there in the end.

As others have said, the same effect can be achieved with a suitable dye.

Good luck. Don't lose heart - Jarrah is a beautiful timber.

Cheerio,
sCORCH

[rod1949]

Hi Kekemo,
</O:p
Some of those pieces of Jarrah have some serious splitting which indicates it’s basically still green timber. So until the timber settles it will be a battle to try to seal it, no matter what is tried or used.
</O:p
With the fine Jarrah furniture that I have made (dining table and two matching buffet cabinets) I had stored the Jarrah timber in the shed for around 10 years, as soon as I started dressing the timber fine cracks started appearing. To try and fill with putty just didn’t work as when sanded back I found the putty was just skimming the surface with no penetration deep into the crack/s thus being too fine to satisfactorily fill with and then there was the issue of the putty being spread in the surrounding timber pores as well as the putty not matching which all sticks out like dogs thingies.
</O:p
A solution that I did was to fill the cracks, and some of them were quite wide and long, was to fill them with the lacquer being used by using a syringe to inject the lacquer into the crack and fill it. It was a pain stacking process and had to be done several times to fill each crack as the lacquer seeps far and wide into the crack/s and shrinks when dried, but in the end it paid off.
</O:p
Another little trick for filling large cracks etc is to use the fine sanding dust mixed with wood glue (the glue needs to be watered down slightly) which gives a better representation of the timber colour than commercial putties do.

Goodluck:2tsup:

See ya
Rod

[Harry72]

The best option would be start with better boards, by the looks of those boards they've either seen many years of sun or were poorly dried(those type of cracks are called grain checking).
The trouble with checking is no matter how well you putty them up you will feel them again on the surface soon enough... the only real way is to use epoxy to seal and glue them so they dont move.(stain the wood to colour 1st as others have mentioned above)

If you use epoxy it can be tinted with some of Ubeauts water dyes, a couple drops of black/green with a couple drops of red will get you a coca'cola colour whick works fine with any colour of jarrah.

[rustynail]

From the photos you have posted it would appear that the timber is backsawn. This method of sawing gives good figure but stability is compromised. Hardwoods always respond better to quartersawing. If you add too quicker drying to an already inherant instability through sawing method, what you are experiencing can be the result.
First job is to determin the moisture content of the timber (moisture meter.) This reading may show good equalibrium, and if so, you will at least know that what movement has taken place is now in the past. If moisture is still high, you can expect further movement. If too dry, a lot of the checking can be closed with an oil finish. The oil must be kept up to it, or the checking will reappear as the surface dries out.
To me, the timber looks very hungry. Probably poor drying as in too quick. It may even be case dried, in other words, dried on the outside, leaving the centre green. Normal surface type finishes are not going to feed the timber and ongoing movement will cause blistering and/or cracking.
Hope this helps.

[Bernt]

Hi Kekemo,

In my opinion those cracks show that the timber has been drying, usually boards that have been recycled look like that. (unless the timber is cracking while working it it will be dry).

About filling, those putty colors seem to match regrowth jarrah much better then old growth. You'll have to start mixing or use pigments. Filling with lacquer is not a good idea unless you are using a two-pack otherwise it will take weeks to dry. I'd use resin.

Color wise, I rather go darker then lighter, it seems to blend in better.

Also if you are going to stain it? Do a sample, the putty might stain much easier then the timber and the color you are using might be fine.

Finally, are you sure you have Jarrah there? The splits seem quiet long, so do the fibers. You might have some Karri, nothing wrong with that, also beautiful but the termites love it as well. Is it for outdoors or indoors?

Don't give up using the beautiful WA timbers!

[rrobor]

I can not claim to be an expert on wood, but I always believed the red colour of wood was the wood oxidising. IE its going rusty. Work on redgum and you get lovely pinks and the like, but as time passes the colour darkens. So if you fill the grain with a coloured filler, you may match it to perfection, but that will not last as the wood ages. So my belief is enjoy wood for what it is, a mirror finish with uniform colour is not the nature of the beast.

[kekemo]

</O:p
Another little trick for filling large cracks etc is to use the fine sanding dust mixed with wood glue (the glue needs to be watered down slightly) which gives a better representation of the timber colour than commercial putties do.

Goodluck:2tsup:

See ya
Rod[/QUOTE]


YES ROD....that is one trick I've used before.. however this time the major cracks seemed little too big... & I wasn't going to get that amount of sanding dust... however... I've selected the timbers that have least cracks for top or step... so on the underneath I don't care what the colour of filler comes out...
Purchase some wallnut & ebony filler... now shall play a little... mmm like back to kindy with plastersine...

Getting little particular regarding filler I choose now... some leave an oil-smear even after you've sanded off excess, you'll see a oil stain-line & if your staining timber it effects the contaminated area's... same as spilling glue on woodwork...once the raw timber's be touched by the glue.. its never the same... happens amazingly fast also....

Know it sounded little intense.. however not worked with the Jarrah before, that was Ed' forte... so new territory... STILL HEAVY STUFF... Admit I love the colour... but think the tiny little splintery grains.. are yuck... LOL.. yep.. I've pine flowing in my blood... hehehe
Hey, thanks guys for all your idea's & help... much much appreciated...
KEKEMO

:cool::2tsup:

[kekemo]

Wow.. that was the best feed back & involvement I've ever experience on Ubeaut your all fantastic.... !!!! BIG TIME ....
So pleased ...yes... now know things I didn't know before.. love the learning.... STILL not impressed with the Jarrah to work with compared to Pine... but very very satisfied with the outcome.... OMG it's still hard... still heavy.. gets more so each time you lift it... and now my lovely pine smelling & the light dusty pine shaving effect in my shed has turned into YUCK YUCK... light-red powerd-sawdust that penetrates every small nook & cranny...

But after completing my first Jarrah project ... guess I won't be so daunted on next attempts .....one would hope so .. with the tonage of Jarrah wood I have out side.... left over from Ed' days... or else my kids will have BIG BBQ when I'm gone....hehehe

Once again THANK-YOU.. for all your comments...
Hope you like pictures of finished boards....
Cheers Kekemo... alias "ShedLady"

:2tsup: :yippy: :woot: :compress:

[kekemo]

Think it looks pretty good... just worried now that the varnish will still be giving off a gaseous fume... & may... I say may, lesson the integrity of the adhesion..... so now its a gamble... wait for a few hours.... trying a small piece on underside of step at the moment..... it's ok in few hours.. will go ahead with the complete strips....

So appreciative of all you comments...
Thanks
Kekemo...

OK second picture is my cruiser... took rocket-cover off yesterday..re-alligned the timing belt & put in new tention screw.. we couldn't find any evidence of what caused the knocking...all the pistons & cam shaft look perfectly ok...we fired her up after re-doing belt settings.. & she purred.... THANK GOODNESS....
... yep do the nitty gritty with my mechanic...(best-mate too) so between the grease.. putty-filler & the sawdust... I feel some-what empowered today...LOL...

Well... if Ed was here... I'd still be up there.. he'd be in the darn shed with the woodwork while I was doing the mechanics with Col... & if it was Jarrah he was working with I'd let him....LOL...but if it was PINE, I'd probably get a bit toey... hehehe...
Thanks everyone...
Cheers...

:logic:

[rod1949]

My God a lady with many talents... mechanical repairs... I'm very impressed... what else are we going to be supprised by. Goodonya Girl :2tsup:

See ya
Rod

[kekemo]

YES>>>>> DONE>>>> FINETO>>>

GOOD me thinks... lol...
Why thankyou kind Sir Rob.. for your complement... cant stop... on my way up now to son's business... yep.. supply lunches for 15-20 work crew...every friday...
Son's new business... & he's the one that pay's for the parts, the glue, the repairs... all the little extra's mum needs....have great kids.. love them.. they're my biggest fan's also my biggest customers... hehehehe.... all grown & flown but still my best friends...

Cheers
Next project ... side rails for bunks... 2 sets...
start sunday I hope...

[strangerep]

[...] as its outside didn't want it cracking anymore...

Kekemo, I've arrived late to this party but I just want to clarify something...

In your original post it sounded like your steps are for exterior use?
Is that right? If so, what filler and finish did you end up using?

(Background: I had a similar experience 18 months ago, working with select-grade kiln-dried ironbark and blackbutt which originally looked better than your pics of how your timber looked when you started. I had no end of trouble with useless fillers, finishes, etc, not to mention considerably enhanced cracking after 18 months outside with Spa-n-Deck coating. I'm currently trying to apply some of Master Splinter's suggestions from another thread about filling with tinted fibreglass resin.)

Cheers.

[Billy302]

But after completing my first Jarrah project ... guess I won't be so daunted on next attempts .....one would hope so .. with the tonage of Jarrah wood I have out side.... left over from Ed' days... or else my kids will have BIG BBQ when I'm gone....hehehe

Once again THANK-YOU.. for all your comments...
Hope you like pictures of finished boards....
Cheers Kekemo... alias "ShedLady"

:2tsup: :yippy: :woot: :compress:
Working with Jarrah can be frustrating and the problem with fillers is they are all one colour. I have Jarrah floors in my home and the colours range from red to brown and to white and some brown with white flecks through the timber. unlike pine and some European timbers jarrah can vary in colour quite a bit. The results are worth the pain of working with it though. You need very sharp tools to work jarrah and constantly sharpen them too. Well done it looks good.

[kekemo]

Kekemo, I've arrived late to this party but I just want to clarify something...

In your original post it sounded like your steps are for exterior use?
Is that right? If so, what filler and finish did you end up using?

(Background: I had a similar experience 18 months ago, working with select-grade kiln-dried ironbark and blackbutt which originally looked better than your pics of how your timber looked when you started. I had no end of trouble with useless fillers, finishes, etc, not to mention considerably enhanced cracking after 18 months outside with Spa-n-Deck coating. I'm currently trying to apply some of Master Splinter's suggestions from another thread about filling with tinted fibreglass resin.)

Cheers.

Hi... can understand your problem quite well....
Steps were for outside use....so originally I purchase the only exterior filler available from Bunning.... major error... dried bright pink, not just new jarrah pink.. it was HOT pink when it dried... so had to decide which path was easier to follow...glad I only did a 18 inch trial... was horrendous to fix yucky hot-pink filler tried scraping filler out with old darning needle...
...then went over with WALNUT interior filler... totally a far superior match to jarrah colour.... then more sanding back..needed removing all the filler... as you would know the Jarrah is shocking to use filler on.. goes in every crack or creeking you can see.. then more you can't see...
... so after thumbs & fingers nearly dropped off from pushing filler in... then there were several hours more of sanding back... oh I also sanded before so it lessened the chance of splitters when applying filler.....

The rep for Cabot.. was great & to be fair he hadn't used that particular product or come across jarrah creeking for himself & was only recommending from experiences retold... so, its been a "learn as you go effort..." Pleased to say.. think it was a fantastic learning experience...& out-come speaks for itself....
NOTE also after sanding back.. they were coated with a satin, varnish solely to stop and air coming in from under side of step... an lifting the non-slip steps...

... anyway they turn out good... I was pleased so was client...

Keep well & safe woodworking... Cheers Kerry...KEKEMO.. alias Shed-Lady...

*** forgot to add reason I went with interior filler... not much option left... an as they were going to be outside steps they would need re-coating ever 12 months anyway..... so with a tripple application of Lacquer I was quite satisfy I hadn't lessened the integrit of the wood..... & the protection would last long enough... ***
....when commissioned work gives us such delemma's the stress fracture isn't always seen in the wood... it's in our decisions or workmanship... so yes... guarranteed my steps on condition the client is responsible for a new application of laquer after 12 months....

:2tsup: :2tsup:

Thanks for enquiry.. cheers










As outside steps are recommended to be re-coated every 12 months... I believe the double/triple coating of "varnish" was going to be suffice ... the actually filling the creeking was painstaking & quite horrendous job....filling with the filler wasn't easy, took many hours... ... then san