Shellac, what am I missing

[Arron]

Sometimes it seems that the answer to every question asked here is shellac. This seems odd as I've been using it for sealing and grain filling (with talc) and its OK, but doesnt seem to me to be something special and frankly well superceeded by modern products.

So is it just that most woodworkers are traditionalists, or is there something about shellac that I'm missing ????

cheers
Arron

[Master Splinter]

The biggest one (for me) is that it is easily reversible, and easy to patch up.

Comes off with metho, unlike poly that needs sanding off. And it's compatible with every other finish so you don't get horrible compatibility problems. And it's a finish that builds with time rather than deteriorating with time.

[jimbur]

It's quick, relatively easy and displays the inner qualities of timber to a depth unrivalled by any other finish - or so say some of us.
So quick that there are not many problems with dust and is fairly forgiving as to the temperature and humidity of the workshop.
Forgot to mention cheap, no brushes caked solid with poly and the old rubbers make great fire lighters.
Cheers,
Jim

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

:wts:

With Shellac you can do simple touch-ups without requiring the removal of older coats. However, when removal is needed it's a relatively simple process.

Most modern finishes unfortunately seem to be PolyU based. Even the so-called "old-fashioned" ones such as what they're now trying to pass off as Tung or Danish Oils. :~

Need a touch-up? Ya gotta strip the item back to bare wood to apply it, lest you risk delamination, orange-peeling or a whole slew of other headaches. Which generally means using nasty solvents/strippers or one helluva lot of elbow work on the grits.

(The big thing for me is the ease of cleaning brushes afterwards. :;)

[Arron]

Thanks for the replies guys. It looks like I should give shellac another try.
Any finish that doesnt need brushes has to be an advantage. I have to admit I was brushing it on - mainly because of the need to get it into some tight corners.
cheers
Arron

[NZStu]

I have never used shellac before, and it just wasn't on the radar for me before I came across this forum. I have been getting a little more curious about it recently.

How durable is it compared with danish oil type finishes? The next project for me is an oak dining table, which is likely to get a bit of abuse as we have two small children (2 and 3) and don't use tablecloths. I was planning on using a tung/poly blend, but the idea of using shellac keeps coming up. Any major disadvantages?

[jimbur]

I have never used shellac before, and it just wasn't on the radar for me before I came across this forum. I have been getting a little more curious about it recently.

How durable is it compared with danish oil type finishes? The next project for me is an oak dining table, which is likely to get a bit of abuse as we have two small children (2 and 3) and don't use tablecloths. I was planning on using a tung/poly blend, but the idea of using shellac keeps coming up. Any major disadvantages?
Biggest two disadvantages are heat and alcohol. Not really practical with young kids etc. Mind you, yours could be well behaved teetotallers.:)
Cheers,
Jim

[Master Splinter]

Or the flip side to that is that it is ideal with young kids, as although it doesn't have the same durability, it can be spruced up without having to get all sander and spray paint on its ass; unlike poly with kids, which might give you two-three-four years of looking good before reaching a point where the Mr Sheen can't help.

Poly finishes look great to get product out the door, but they don't age gracefully.

Pic shows poly finish on jarrah, it reached this state after about four years of bedside cabinet use in the grown-ups bedroom. No easy fix apart from sanding back and doing it again. If it was a more forgiving finish, it'd just need a wipe with oil to bring it back close to the original condition.

[mic-d]

Maybe for a high use table top a modern poly finish might make you less jittery and last longer, but in other places it's great for the reasons mentioned. Also it is non-toxic and low VOC if that is a selling point for you. It's also a great sealer before staining troublesome wood like pine and as a sealer to stop bleed through of knots and stains(marks etc, I mean). It is also an excellent moisture vapour barrier, I think better than most modern finishes (?) so can minimize seasonal movement.

It's not too bad on your morning cereal either. :)

[NZStu]

Mind you, yours could be well behaved teetotallers.:)
Cheers,
Jim

One out of two for the time being. Although my lad keeps showing a very keen interest in what we're drinking and likes to remind us that "when I get older I'm going to drink wine and beer." :rolleyes:

I hate straight poly finishes - to me they look plasticy and they definitely don't age well.

I think I'll stick with a danish-type blend on this one I think. It's still easy enough to touch up without having to strip the old finish...

[jimbur]

Having said all that, our dining table is french polished and puts up with the grandchildren.
Also another plus of using french polish is the smell of alcohol:D

[ubeaut]

A big problem with a shellac finish is that people no longer know how to use, look after or respect a good finish. It is best to use coasters and place mats for a shellac finish. This will preserve the finish for many, many years. My parents had a french polished dining table that was over 80 years old and used for everything for dining, cards and other games to office desk on a regular basis over it's life. At 80 years old it looked beautiful. Few marks from me doing homework directly on the table but other than that bloody amazing.

Biggest problem with shellac application is the use of brushes that really aren't suitable. If you brush shellac you need to use good brushes and anything less can be a real pain. Have a look HERE (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/indextool.mvc?prodid=GT-SHEBRU.XX) for the best (almost readily available) brushes I have found. LOOK HERE (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/extra/images/brush/MakeAbrushShortX.mov) to see one being made.... Well worth a look.

Hard Shellac (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/hardshell.htm) (a reasonably new product) is probably a bit tougher than polyurethane and as easy to use as regular shellac. It has a much higher resistance to alcohol, water and heat than regular shellac.

Hope this is of some help.

Cheers - Neil :U

PS Good brush(es) is definitely the key to a good brushed finish. :2tsup:

[Christos]

Arron, I am by no means a traditionalist just like to give things a go. I started using Shellac about 5 years ago just because I could mix it(my moment as the mad chemist, and my apology to the mad chemists of the world). Now mind you the first batch was good the second not so good and the third well what have I created.

These days I am doing well as I have a routine. I am using other products and again playing a little with what might be a good result. Scrap is always good and always seems to have some? Strange how it multiplies? :)

I finished a fish tank stand using Shellac and so far it is holding up well. I used a very cheap brush that I picked up when I was last in China made from goat hair, I think. The brush did not hold up but it was fun to use. The brush strokes were very light and the charge on the brush was very light. Meaning that it was going to take a long time to complete, and it did. :U

[RufflyRustic]

Over a year ago I sanded and re-finished my hardwood kitchen island benchtop with UBeaut's Hard Shellac. I put about 6 coats on, I think. This is the benchtop where everything gets done, food prepared, shopping gets dumped, etc etc so it gets a lot of use every day and gets wiped down I don't know how many times a day too.

As expected, the shellac looks the same as when I first put the unit back into use last year. I clean it with warm soapy water, always dry it off and don't allow water to stand for very long. Works for me. I'm happy. :):2tsup:

[jimbur]

Two points of historical interest.
Firstly I made a pencil box at school some 55 years ago. My brother took it over and I got it back the last time we visited the UK. It's knocked about but the shellac has stayed on doing its job.
Secondly, my FIL's father was a cabinet-maker/undertaker when coffins were made as needed and so had to be finished quickly. The easiest way was to to use french polish starting with a pretty wet rubber and the job could be done overnight ready for the client.
Cheers,
Jim
ps Neill, how long is the shelf life of hard shellac once it's been opened?

[NZStu]

Hard Shellac (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/hardshell.htm) (a reasonably new product) is probably a bit tougher than polyurethane and as easy to use as regular shellac. It has a much higher resistance to alcohol, water and heat than regular shellac.



I've seen a few posts metioning Hard Shellac, and it sounds rather good. It looks like it's a bit tricky to get hold of on this side of the ditch though. :(

[seanz]

I'm wondering if it can be posted from Australia..........

[NZStu]

I don't think it can - something to do with it being a hazardous good...

[seanz]

Hmmm.......The U-Beaut site has it available for export, so it should be good for the post.

Please note, I don't actually think shellac is dangerous. Well, no more dangerous than poly or plastic packaging. I'm just interested in the customs and postal regulations.....we had a small problem with a cat toy set in the post from Oz, who'd of thought it would contain actual cat-nip?
:D

[NZStu]

Not the hard shellac. HARD SHELLAC - New improved formula finish. (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/hardshell.htm)

I wonder what the customs dogs thought of the catnip...:)

[seanz]

Ah-ha.......this is the stuff that they'll be sending me, or not, more likely.

SHELLAWAX GLOW friction polish (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/glow.htm)

It's in this sander pack.

CWS Store - Rotary Sander Kit | Carroll's Woodcraft Supplies (http://www.cws.au.com/shop/item/rotary-sander-kit)

Bother. I'd better get on the phone.

Oh, and it's not Carrolls or U-Beaut that are sending this stuff over. It's my ever-helpful little sister.

Is that enough drift for this thread then? Or can we talk about cat-nip some more?
:D

[Pariss]

I'm wondering if it can be posted from Australia..........

Hey fellers, here is the NZ supplier for hard shellac mailto:[email protected] ([email protected])

[jimbur]

Some time ago I saw a video with Frank Klausz (spelling?) french polishing. He was using the traditional method of application but it was not traditional french polish. I can't remember the name but I had a bottle bought for me and used it on the top of a queensland walnut desk.
It seemed very 'thin' compared with normal polish and a little slower to dry. The latter meant it was more forgiving but the former meant that the surface had to be absolutely perfectly filled as it didn't seem much good for bodying up.
The finish was excellent though not quite of a french-polished depth though that could be due to the surface preparation.
Cheers,
Jim