Is there such a thing as an easy way out?

[JohnMurray71]

Hi all,

Before I get howled down over using the words "easy way out" in the finishing forum, please let me explain...

I am a relative novice who is trying to finish a timber bathroom vanity top. After some searching on the forum, I decided on Wattyl 7008 2-pack polyurethane. I was attracted to its durability, suitability for wet-areas and its "ease of use". As my wife and I aren't too picky, its plastic-y finish wasn't such a deterrent.

What has proved to be a major deterrent however is my lack of brush skills. I have applied four coats and am having troubles with brush marks, undulations and dust nibs (I think this is what they are called?). I have been cutting back between coats using successive grades of wet and dry (240grit up to 2000grit). This gives a smooth, satin finish but we both prefer a gloss for the bathroom.

So my question/s is/are:

Is there an easy way to get rid of all my brushing errors and still have a gloss finish?

And one that will require minimal future maintenance?

(And yes, I definitely need to improve on my brush skills:B)

Some suggestions I have read on previous posts:
- use MinWax wipe on poly. Will there be any problems with this over the 7008? Is it really as easy as wiping it on? Is it clear or is there a colour cast? (I have a tin of the gloss and am "ready to go")
- use EEE-Ultra Shine after cutting back with wet and dry. The u-beaut page states that is can be used "as a finish in its own right over plastics". Is PU a plastic? Is this the product I am after? Will it need further maintenance?
- Using some other polish/wax after cutting back the PU. How do waxes go in a wet area? How much maintenance will they need? (I have a tub of Gilly Stephenson's Carnauba Polish and am "ready to go")
- And yes, I plan on going and buying the polisher's handbook next time I am at Carba-Tec in Brisbane.:2tsup:

I would appreciate any advice. I have done a ton of research but feel like I am getting myself more confused. I would prefer not to spend too much money and also would like to get it finished fairly soon as we are getting sick of bushing our teeth in the kitchen sink.

Much appreciated,

John

[Master Splinter]

Once you hit 2000 grit wet and dry, you can simply move on to car paint buffing compound to bring it to a gloss. EEE-Ultra shine should do much the same thing.

[Ironwood]

I have never used that stuff, but a mate of mine who does , says he uses a lambswool applicator for best results.

[JohnMurray71]

Thanks MasterSplinter. I have read about the car paint buffing compound before. I am guessing it is just another abrasive, albeit an extremely fine one that brings up the gloss? Does it contain a wax as well? And are their some compounds that are more suitable than others?

After using it, will the top needs future maintenance? Or once I use it, will it be good for a while? The reason I chose the 2-pack poly is that some forum-ites were talking about not having touched it in up to 8 years.

[mimpi]

I could be totally out of line here but what about using a hair dryer or heat gun after you have brushed on the coating to help smooth it out? I have done this with sucess on epoxy gloss finishes before not sure about the poly though..
usually helps to remove any bubbles and flaten brush strokes?

[rogerjenkins]

Wattyl paints have their own specialist products for creating High Gloss Finishes on either the standard Gloss Estapol, or the 2-pack 7008 product, which removes the brush marks, and crates an, almost, " Mirror Finish," too. There's a specialist Cutting Compound, which is applied with a, " rubber, " cloth, after the finish is thoroughly dry and has been rubbed back with 400 grit wet, & dry paper to even out brush marks etc. After the very fine sanding scratches have been rubbed out, one uses the Wattyl Finishing Spirit to achieve the final, " Mirror Finish. " These two products are heaps finer than ordinary Car polish, and automotive Cutting Compound both of which work quite well too. If you are still having problems, simply, " Hop onto the Wattyl Website," ( www.wattyl.com.au (http://www.wattyl.com.au) ) and go to their Customer Service section, and pick there brains,- that's what they are there for. ( That's what I do when looking for technical info. )
Roger

[JohnMurray71]

Thanks for the suggestions Roger. Have you seen these products lately? I am wondering if they are the same products as mentioned in another post here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f9/two-pack-polyurethane-rubbing-back-smooth-finish-4971/)? I will contact Wattyl customer service as you suggested.

I am currently trying the MinWax wipe on poly and am impressed by how easy it is to get a nice finish. I'm a bit surprised that the gloss levels are far less than than achieved by the 7008. (And yes, I am using the tin labeled gloss, not satin!:q)

[Master Splinter]

The long term life of a polyurethane covered top will be governed by many factors, including how well sealed it is (remember to do both sides so that moisture exchange is equal and doesn't create warping in the bench), the timber species, how long wet things sit on there, thermal cycling, abuse (from cleaning or other activities) and so on...

The ultimate, 'build and finish a wooden boat then sail around the world' finish is epoxy resin, so if you are looking for the sort of coating that can withstand years of immersion in a marine environment, check out a marine epoxy (http://boatcraft.com.au/informationpages/whybotecote.htm).

Once you've sealed something (with poly or epoxy) you've basically got a plastic barrier layer so wax or other traditional finish on top is pretty much a waste of material - it's not really going to 'nourish the timber for that warm glow only wood can give' or any of that stuff - a wipe with a wet rag to clean off grot is as good as it'll get.

[JohnMurray71]

The top is recycled from some sort of Aussie hardwood (an old 4x4 that was removed from our landing). I have sealed all sides and now am just trying to put the final high gloss finish on. You made an earlier reference to car polishing compounds. Any particular products to look out for or avoid? And will I have to re-apply at some time?
Cheers,
John

[carlow]

7008 is very sensitive to temperature range as stipulated on the can if it's too warm you get the undulations try applying the poly when it is not too warm also never go back over it after more than a minute it will not blend in .i found that out when using it on floors boards . 7008 is not absorbed by the wood it sits on top forming a film layer but once it's on it is very good .
my daughter when she was younger put a hot frypan on a benchtop coated with 7008 it didn't do a thing to the poly but it left a big burn mark on the timber underneath Hope this helps

[plantagenon]

I am not an expert on this but having read some of the other threads on polishing, EEE seems a better product to cut with than car polish that contains silicone and not designed for wood. Also there is a thread which suggests using 0000 grade steel wool to sand the product before the final coat of poly. Hope this is helpful but I'm really only directing you to other previous comments.

[nrb]

You could try a product called PENETROL it works to make the finish smooth out and dry brush mark free. Add to your finish as directed and paint with a good brush,a nice full coat. You can get this from paint shops or bunnies. Many pro.painters use this stuff with oil paints.:2tsup:

[mark david]

Hi I can certainly recommend the Minwax wipe on poly finish,however you will get a better finish using the foam brushes or as I do use hand cut srips of upholstery foam (was buying the foam brushes from Bunnings but they are expnesive for what they are,plus the foam part falls of the handle if it gets too saturaetd and you are having to throw them away all the time)Wouldn't recommend wax polish as it's not durable especially for where you are using it.

[JohnMurray71]

I am thinking about popping over to Carba-Tec tomorrow and getting some EEE. Will also get the mop applicator/buffer to stick on the end of a drill.

Still a bit unsure however about the product. I read it can be used to "finish the finish". I also read that it can be used over plastic, but I remember reading on one post that it loses its gloss fairly quickly. For the life of me I can't find that post again however.

Does anyone have any experience with EEE losing its gloss?

[plantagenon]

EEE isn't the final coating from what I understand. It's just a fine cutter to prepare the surface for products like Shellawax. I don't know if you can use it before Minwax. Someone on here will have that knowledge.

[JohnMurray71]

So of course I went all the way across town to Carba-Tec, toddler in tow, to find out they are out of stock of EEE with a back-order of 26. Obviously a popular product, and the shelves of all the other U-Beaut products were conspicuously bare. CT staff suggested Neil is on holiday!?

I saw a product called Mr Buff Cutting Compound at SuperCheap Auto and looking up the MSDS found it was mainly tripoli powder, kero and water. Apparently it will "break down into smaller particles to polish the surface". Sounds a bit like EEE??

I've also given up on the wipe-on poly as it is not glossy enough. Wife likes the look of the 7008. So I'll try that again, cut it back to 2000g wet and dry and then try Mr Buff. Gotta love that name!

[plantagenon]

John

Order it on line from Timberbits.com

If you order it today you will have it by Monday or Tuesday at the latest. Their prices are cheaper than most other places.

[Harry72]

If your leaving brush marks in 7008 its either not being put on thick enough(it needs a thick coat for it to "flow" out smooth)or you are going back over it after it has started to gel.
Treat 7008 like enamel paint another words... most urethanes are the same.

[JohnMurray71]

Never heard of Timberbits but just checked it out and their price for EEE was much lower than CT. I will bookmark the site for further reference. Thanks.

Harry, yep, I plan on putting it on thickly this time. Cheers.

[Master Splinter]

A polyurethane finish is plastic, and loss of gloss will be determined basically by wear or cleaning cloth. If you want a high gloss finish, buff with car compound as this is what it is designed for; there are some that are designed to break down to finer grits in use, giving a higher gloss. If you want a longer lasting gloss, you need to apply a harder (and more brittle) surface finish so that it can be well compounded in the first place (fine scratches can be polished to smaller dimensions than optical wavelengths, making them invisible) rather than hiding the scratches with a reasonably close refractive index filler.