Where does the buck stop?

[jimbur]

With the revelations of the journalistic standard at the News of the World the question is, "how far up the command structure should the blame lie?"
Does it stop with the journalist, does it extend to the accounts department who must have approved some extremely dodgy expenses to unsavoury people, does it stop with the editor or is everyone to blame including the proprietor who, after all, is benefitting from a series of apparent crimes?
Cheers,
JIm

[rsser]

Who is going to sack Rupert?

And now the can of worms is open, police are investigating other Brit newspapers.

I suppose there's been a code of conduct, self-regulated of course.

Worth as much as a verbal contract.

[wheelinround]

They sign checks on behalf of Murdoch the board and its shareholders plain and simple. The board could not deny knowledge as it has benefited, no different to Gillard, Rudd or any Prime Minister or cabinet who also has reaped the benefits.

You rally think it stops at just mobiles, not so long ago people were wondering how secure Facebook & Twitter pages were being accessed.

When visiting OS webites and media pages how come I still get Aussie advertising.:? Does this mean Bigpond is permitting access?

[jimbur]

I agree with you in practice Ern but if our jaundiced view is correct it makes a mockery of the corporations act and puts certain individuals above the law - able to reap the benefits of being a company yet being so powerful that the restrictions put on your neighbourhood chippy and plumbing companies do not seem to apply.
What did the reporters tell the editors when asked how they got the information on which the stories were based? Or even worse, didn't they ask?
Cheers,
Jim

[jimbur]

When visiting OS webites and media pages how come I still get Aussie advertising.:? Does this mean Bigpond is permitting access?
This is something that is not amenable to proof but, many years ago, I would go in a UK chatroom and we would chat about this that and the other. It always struck me that the spam directed to my email account (not bigpond) seemed to reflect some of the topics of conversation.
Cheers,
Jim

[AlexS]

I find it difficult to believe that a megalomaniac like the dirty digger would allow this to happen without his knowledge, and none of his underlings would be game to do or allow it without his say-so.
Given the number of Australian journos that have done a stint at News of the Screws, what are the odds that the same thing ins going on at the Daily Smellograph and other Murdoch rags in Australia?

[wheelinround]

After watching the news and recalling recently Murdochs announcement that News Of The World would be charging for Net access it suddenly struck a cord.

$$$$$$$$$$$

Lets start at the top where are all the labor workers, unions etc going bonkers about being unemployed outcrys grieving mother and kids???? Ever person that came out of the building was cheering.

One building up for sale $$$$$$$$$$, no new machines to print required, sold off $$$$$$.

BSKYB (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118020660) rejected

[kiwigeo]

News of the World and other gutter tabloids would fold overnight if there wasn't a mass of people willing to pay to read the rubbish printed within.

[MatMann]

When visiting OS webites and media pages how come I still get Aussie advertising.:? Does this mean Bigpond is permitting access?

thats simply a google or some other ad network using your IP address which can be obtained from any web browser and displaying and ad relevant to you location. nothing sinister there

[wheelinround]

thats simply a google or some other ad network using your IP address which can be obtained from any web browser and displaying and ad relevant to you location. nothing sinister there

Not sinister?? It is illegal as its stealing!! from your limits yo do not give them permission and you can not stop it with add pop up stuff. For starters being allowed to happen by whom? Your ISP?? They wonder how hackers crackers and spam get in. A few years ago SMH found advertisers were allowing spam stuff into the adds. You sure its not sinister!!

[hughie]

Given that News of the World has had reputation for this type of journalism for at least 40 years that I know of and was well known in Fleet st for it.

I spent some time working in Fleet St in the 70's and it was a small community, this of sort carry on would have had tacit approval from the top at the very least.

Simply put, bad news sells better than good and muck.........

[jimbur]

, this of sort carry on would have had tacit approval from the top at the very least.
Simply put, bad news sells better than good and muck.........
This confirms what I've been thinking Hughie.
Another problem that has arisen through the use of illegal taps etc has been the finger-pointing. At least one person was sacked from their job because it was thought that they were leaking information to the press. Also imagine the bereaved families looking sideways at their relatives and friends and wondering if one of them had passed on personal information.
The closure was inevitable because without advertising it would have run at a loss. The muck-eating punters aren't enough to keep a newspaper going. Then you get into the amorality of advertisers - never-ending story.
Cheers,
Jim

[rsser]

If you want to read some quality, independent long-form journalism, I can recommend www.probpublica.org

They also offer a Smartphone app.

[jimbur]

If you want to read some quality, independent long-form journalism, I can recommend www.probpublica.org (http://www.probpublica.org)

They also offer a Smartphone app.
That's www.propublica.org (http://www.propublica.org)
Thanks Ern
Cheers,
Jim

[jimbur]

It seems to be getting worse. 'Rumours' are coming out about Murdoch's other UK papers.
Cheers,
Jim

[Dropcat]

When visiting OS webites and media pages how come I still get Aussie advertising

Every computer on the internet has a number (IP address), and that number gives away your location. Same as 'phone numbers, if you see 02 in front then it's NSW, 029 is Sydney etc.

The ads are usually delivered by companies external to the site your are visiting, eg Google, DoubleClick etc.

The website asks the ad provider so something, passes your IP address across, hence you get an ad for sheep dip and not cut price herring.

[jimbur]

The website asks the ad provider so something, passes your IP address across, hence you get an ad for sheep dip and not cut price herring.
If we start getting ads for cut-price herring, that would be sinister:D
Cheers,
Jim

[artme]

Just had a quick look at that website Ern. No reading as yet but there is an interesting range of topics

Pity we don't have that sort of facility here. Then again the standard of journalism in this vountry is somewhere below pathetic. It may be just as well!!

[hughie]

It seems to be getting worse. 'Rumours' are coming out about Murdoch's other UK papers.



,
Jim, To a varying extent with each paper basically, "whatever it takes" is the norm in the UK and nothing is sacred.

So much so the Royals and various celebs are or have taken out 'super avos' to prevent publishing of thier personal details.

So all this is no surprise to me at all.

[AlexS]

With all the Australian hacks who've done a few years with Murdoch's rags in the UK, do you really think we're immune here?

[jimbur]

With all the Australian hacks who've done a few years with Murdoch's rags in the UK, do you really think we're immune here?
I doubt that we are immune Alex, especially when the political parties are terrified that the media might turn on them. Democracy seems to come a distant last when a person who isn't even entitled to vote across here can wield so much influence.
Perhaps we need another term Hughie instead of newspaper - news doesn't really seem to be their stock in trade.
Cheers,
Jim

[underfoot]

Slightly off topic, but reminds me of when Peter Garret was being asked how he felt being personally responsible for the death of an apprentice electrician :?..
..his response...this is politics..the buck has to stop somewhere...
...Meanwhile....I was waiting for some journo to interveiw the idiot sparky that the kid was apprenticed to..:rolleyes:

[Bushmiller]

If we start getting ads for cut-price herring, that would be sinister:D
Cheers,
Jim

Yes definitely something fishy there.

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

In recent times the integrity of journalists appears to have taken a huge dive. No longer are they encouraged to check stories. Rather they are hustled along with deadlines that are increasingly difficult to meet.

One of the problems is that a newspaper is an item that is sold retail for considerably less than it costs to produce. In extreme examples there is no cover charge. The free circulation papers (publishers prefer the phrase controlled circulation) are an example.

We all know how they subsidise this: Advertising. Immediately the integrity is compromised. The gutter press, of which the News of the World was a leading contender, are amongst the biggest offenders.

There are only two things that matter in the success of publishing: Circulation (copies sold) and advertising revenue. The two are inextricably intertwined.

The time was when the editorial staff would not talk to the advertsing staff for fear of being compromised. That was the fleet street ethic. Those days have disappeared. With the advent of the internet invasion of privacy, never a taboo in journalism, has reached new levels of deprivation.

Was the phone hacking sanctioned? Probably. Was it a tacit understanding? Almost certainly. Did Rupert Murdock know about it? Doesn't matter. It is/was his quest for increased market share that has encouraged the ethical abyss:(.

If there is any doubt of that, look up the responsibilities of company directors with regards to due dilligence.

Regards
Paul

[Vicbowling]

I think Rupert Murdock should be held accountable. It is his company and ultimately he is the one accountable for the actions of his staff. He should know what is going on there.




spray foam insulation (http://www.sprayfoamdirect.com/)

[Bushmiller]

I think Rupert Murdock should be held accountable. It is his company and ultimately he is the one accountable for the actions of his staff. He should know what is going on there.




spray foam insulation (http://www.sprayfoamdirect.com/)


That sums it up for me. The only qualification would be if there was a calculated and deliberate deception to keep him from knowing. He would have to prove that he was deliberately deceived and because of his dictatorial style, which of course is his perogative, I suspect he would have a difficult task to do that.

Regards
Paul

[jimbur]

That sums it up for me. The only qualification would be if there was a calculated and deliberate deception to keep him from knowing. He would have to prove that he was deliberately deceived and because of his dictatorial style, which of course is his perogative, I suspect he would have a difficult task to do that.

Regards
Paul
Sounds a bit like like Thomas a Becket doesn't it, where the truth is the turbulent priest? Can't see Rupert walking barefoot to Wapping on pilgrimage though.
cheers,
Jim

[rsser]

What will change Murdoch's behaviour is impact on share price.

I notice that the C of E in E were proposing to sell off their shares in the enterprise.

(God knows why they have such a stake in mammon, so ask him!)

And the really big lever for change is superannuation funds' position on ethical investment. They did some posturing after the GFC but I don't recall any outcome. If however they put their money where their mouths might be, crikey ..... we'd have .... er, something like socialist capitalism, or capitalist socialism.

(Drucker referred some time ago to the socialisation of corporations via super fund holdings.)

[jimbur]

What will change Murdoch's behaviour is impact on share price.

I notice that the C of E in E were proposing to sell off their shares in the enterprise.

(God knows why they have such a stake in mammon, so ask him!)

And the really big lever for change is superannuation funds' position on ethical investment. They did some posturing after the GFC but I don't recall any outcome. If however they put their money where their mouths might be, crikey ..... we'd have .... er, something like socialist capitalism, or capitalist socialism.

(Drucker referred some time ago to the socialisation of corporations via super fund holdings.)
Sounds good to me Ern.
Cheers
Jim

[fxst]

and now the news of the world chief editor (forgot her name) just resigned....looks bad for Murdock

Pete

Brooks quits over phone-hacking scandal - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-15/news-international-chief-rebekah-brooks-quits/2796612)

[hughie]

[and now the news of the world chief editor (forgot her name) just resigned....looks bad for Murdock




Aw jee, it couldnt of happened to a nicer bloke. :U

[hughie]

Taint From Tabloids Rubs Off on a Cozy Scotland Yard

For nearly four years, six overstuffed plastic bags containing possible evidence of phone hacking by the British tabloid, The News of the World, collected little more than dust in the evidence room of Scotland Yard.

During that time, British police officials assured Parliament, judges, lawyers, potential hacking victims, the news media and the public that there was no evidence of widespread hacking by the paper. But that assertion has been reduced to tatters in the last week, torn apart by an avalanche of contradictory evidence, admissions by newspaper executives that the hacking was more widespread, and a reversal by police officials who now admit to mishandling the case.




Oh my will it never end.

[jimbur]

I notice that it is being reported that they are turning on each other now.
Cheers,
Jim

[hughie]

[I notice that it is being reported that they are turning on each other now.
Cheers,


:U The instinct for survival......lets cut a deal.

[jimbur]

And Ms Brooks has been arrested.
It's going to be interesting to see if charges are laid against the Murdochs for approving payouts with gagging clauses to victims. Covering up a crime is a crime is it not?
Cheers,
Jim

[rsser]

Yes, the feacal matter is now properly out of the bag and on the way to the fan.

But it's not all bad.

Have a look at Flanagan's Sat reflection in The Age on Sat, and this:

Saturday reflection (http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/saturday-reflection-20110422-1dres.html)

[Bushmiller]

Yes, the feacal matter is now properly out of the bag and on the way to the fan.

But it's not all bad.

Have a look at Flanagan's Sat reflection in The Age on Sat, and this:

Saturday reflection (http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/saturday-reflection-20110422-1dres.html)

Ern

Two quotes I really liked from that article if I may:

"I have a brother who writes novels - he writes about the world as he imagines it to be. I am obliged, in so far as I am able, to write about the world as I find it to be."


and

"Journalism is the natural enemy of religious and political ideology. Religious and political ideologues insist on a version of the world as they wish it to be. Journalists are obliged to describe the world as they experience it."

Regards
Paul

[Twisted Tenon]

[QUOTE=jimbur;1345139]
"how far up the command structure should the blame lie?"

To answer jimbur's question, Murdoch should be held to the same standards that he demanded of all government ministers.
The buck stops with him. :rolleyes:

TT

[jimbur]

It seems that the reports of Murdoch senior's appearance in front of the Parliamentary committee demonstrate cunning rather than dotage. James said much more and now it is said that the police are looking at perjury allegations in relation to his testimony.
Cheers,
Jim

[Twisted Tenon]

James said much more and now it is said that the police are looking at perjury allegations in relation to his testimony.

Isn't that because some ex editors have suddenly "remembered" some stuff about James? I wonder if Rupert is still too big a target to hit.:roll:

Steve

[rsser]

How the confessional impulse becomes pressing when the ship threatens to sink!

[jimbur]

How the confessional impulse becomes pressing when the ship threatens to sink!
Who among the top executives is going to be the first to turn Queen's evidence?
Cheers,
Jim

[rsser]

Reckon there might be some lawyers using the indemnity word in discussions with police or public prosecutors?

[jimbur]

Reckon there might be some lawyers using the indemnity word in discussions with police or public prosecutors?
I bet they're not using phones or emails:D
Cheers,
Jim