Barnaby Joyce

[mic-d]

If you live in NSW and you have solar panels, the topic is a bit of a sore point at the moment. In selling it's retrospective legislation, the NSW government has managed to turn solar panel ownership into something that is frowned upon by the average punter, almost something to be ashamed of. It has been painted as a scheme that is bringing "windfall profits" to greedy parasites. I think you would have to have rocks in your head to go ahead with solar power at present. If I'd known how it was going to turn out, I would never have done it.

When did you start worrying about what people thought of you?:)

[damian]

Is that the feed in tarriff issues ?

I always thought those levels were unsustainable. I have been wishing for years that the state and federal government could just come up with a simple scheme and leave it alone.

Trouble is, and this is another malais of modern australian politics, is government by announcment. They just make the same announcment over and over to get their heads on TV, but even if the initiative is implemented at all it gets done once and once only. Shifting rebates up and down every 6 months gives them something to announce.

Sigh.

[rrobor]

For me, the political sytstem has always been incorrect. You vote for some silly begger in the hope he or she has sense, Why not have a council to elect our pollies and if they dont perform you vote em out. At least you get the pick of the crop not some chosen oaf.

[jimbur]

For me, the political sytstem has always been incorrect. You vote for some silly begger in the hope he or she has sense, Why not have a council to elect our pollies and if they dont perform you vote em out. At least you get the pick of the crop not some chosen oaf.
Exactly, the ones we vote for have already been vetted by their party and I mean vetted as in emasculated so they'll toe the party line.
Cheers,
Jim

[damian]

You don't have to vote for someone who's in a party. Anyone can run for parliment or council. The real issue is that the very great majority of voters don't put any effort in. If they did then in each seat there would be face to face public meeting with candidates and we'd elect people who properly represent the views of the voters and if they don't they would be out next time. That isn't what happens.

I would like to recount an event that happened about 9 months ago. I was at the train station, I'd just missed a train so I wandered to the timetable to see when the next one was due. Ahead of me were two people, a young man and a woman, both caucasian, both well dressed. He looked at the timetable for a while and wandered off looking confused, she looked at it with increasing alarm waving her hands over it up and down and across then gave me a startled look and wandered off. It was quite clear neither had been able to determine when the next train was comming.

The point is you have to remember that a substantial portion of the population can barely read write and add up. There are MANY people who can't budget, more again who don't understand contracts economics etc. You have to remember that there are just as many people of below average intelligence as above average intelligence, and they all vote.

This isn't meant to be nasty, it's just a fact of life that a lot of the electorate just drift along through life, they are not sophisticated voters. A very great proportion of Australian voters vote for a party all their life and never change.

Ask 10 random people how the parliment works, or the stock market. You might be surprised....

[jimbur]

You're right Damian. As you say, half the population have an IQ of below 100 by definition.
The party system has become so entrenched that we take it for granted whereas in theory the Governor General could ask anyone in the parliament to form a government if she believed they would be able to command a majority. In reality, if that happened the party blocs would immediately pass a vote of no confidence in the government and the dog fight would start again.
One of the things I disagree with is the introduction of voting above the line. In the first place it helps entrench the party system and if people can't count and/or are unwilling to take the trouble to fill in the long ballot paper then let it be spoiled.
Cheers,
Jim

[Geoff Dean]

Along the same lines as what Damien just said.

Many years ago I became involved in a political discussion with my grandmother. Her statement was that she had voted for Bob Hawke and yadda yadda yadda.

I tried to tell her that she hadn't voted for Bob, but in fact had voted for the local labor candidate in our electorate, and that he had been defeated. In reality, her vote had had no effect at all in placing Bob Hawke in power whatsoever.

Gran could not grasp the concept that she hadn't voted for Bob, She was adamant that that was who she voted for. Nothing could persuade her differently.

Just another example of how little most people know of how our electoral system works.

[damian]

If people voted for the individual then the parties wouldn't have the clout to bring down the government.

The confusion you mention your grandmother had is common. Have a look at both commentry in the press and the "blogosphere" after Rudd was rolled. Remarkably widespread outrage that "they" had voted for "him" and how dare the party oust him without an election.

Our electoral system is not ideal. I was an advocate for preferential voting many years ago but in truth it just entrenches the 2 party system. Optional preferential is IMO a big step in the right direction.

Mandatory voting drags the outcome to the socialist end of the spectrum, which is why the coalition would like to get rid of it nd labor never will :)

If you want your head to explode read how senate votes are counted.

Unfortunately to fix our system we first need to improve education, that's the big issue.

Afterwards perhaps some tweaking of the system itself. I advocate disolving the states but only if the councils are suitably empowered and ideally the shires become aligned to federal seats and the elections combined. I don't know how much support such a radical change would have in the community. I truely believe local high reslution government is our only hope to save community in Australia, and ultimately our country and culture.

[artme]

My word! We do take many twists and turns in these discussins, don't we??

Just getting back to the the subject of BJ

Why did he single out Cate?? I sometimes wonder if he shoots his mouth of just gete a reaction. Well he certainly achieved that.

It is also woth noting that th Great Vandal has taken the ball and run with it too.

The whole scenario smacks of hypocrisy, point scoring and downright ignorance.

[rrobor]

Sorry, here I depart company from this. We all have issues. For example I can not differentiate between two things. Left Right, North South ets. People say its easy Look at the letter L it points the opposite way. They dont understand, Give me a choice of two things I dont make it.
Have I a low IQ. Well it depends on the IQ test. Add this in and yes my IQ Is low, Remove this and Im OK thak you.
Now If you wish to go through every human on this earth, you will find issues. Einstein was a dill at school and for some reason hated socks, does hating socks make you genius?
No no no, lets not look at others and think they are dumb, jumping to conclusions on scant evvidence is not for me. My skills oughtweighed my weaknesses and I was average. Einstein had a sock fettish but managed E=MCsq and probably was hen toed. Please consider at a glance you have no idea as to the substance of a person.
As to the origins of the thread, For one I was pleased it had gone as it had. If you wish to spawn crap the other forum has a thread as long as your arm and leg. It goes round in circles, like the song " On a never ending reel". Please let this thead live its life and fade a in a dignified way, dont try to breath a foul odour breath into its corpse.

[damian]

rrobor,

My intention was not to question the worth of those people. The point I was trying to make is they may not understand the system and that many, not just low IQ but many people generally, are disengaged. For our democracy to be strong people need to understand the system and to care, to pay attention. I actually don't care what position they take, but I would very much prefer it to be well informed and thought out.

Artme,

I think she was singled out because she's a big target. Also you can argue she isn't a "normal" person. When a police officer or a judge is empowered by society beyond a normal citizen that comes with responsibilities, that's why they are often penalized more harshly when they are found guilty of unlawful behavior. KB wasn't paid to do that ad because she looks pretty in trousers, we was hired because of who she is. Her celebrity carries with it sway over some portion of viewers and it gets attention. Society has made her famous, and wealthy, and embracing that role she also accepts the consequences. She is a smart woman and should have expected to be singled out. The other actor would also, but since he's the lesser target he's copped less of it.

Now I'm not arguing that personal attacks on them are right nor relevant, just that they were likely.

Meowing at Penny Wong is stupid, childish and diminishes the parliament, but so does calling Christopher Pine a mincing whatever she said, or Julia Gillard a Ranger. They truly behave, well I can't remember behaving like that when I was 5, maybe I did...But then is the ultimate conclusion of the worth of this discourse the fact that people are watching and talking about it ? Maybe it says as much about us (as a community) as them.

It would be nice if Sen Joyce and all his fellow parliamentarians could be honest and complete and behave in a manner that makes us look up to them, but as I say, we hired them and when the 30 second soundbite gets dull we reach for the remote....

[jimbur]

Damian. I wonder if Michael Caton didn't get so much flak because of (here it comes again) the perception that somehow he is a battler just because his most famous part was in The Castle?
Politics has been absolutely debased both by our representatives in Parliament and by the ones who are behind the scenes and selling their party through advertisements at election time.
If you sell a candidate on the same level as cornflakes surely they end up being thought of in the same way.
Do any representatives give their electorates regular updates on what has been happening in Parliament explaining why they voted how they did? So much has been left to the media to explain and on the whole they're after a quick, snappy story with an eye-catching headline.
Cheers,
Jim

[mic-d]

Damian. I wonder if Michael Caton didn't get so much flak because of (here it comes again) the perception that somehow he is a battler just because his most famous part was in The Castle?
Politics has been absolutely debased both by our representatives in Parliament and by the ones who are behind the scenes and selling their party through advertisements at election time.
If you sell a candidate on the same level as cornflakes surely they end up being thought of in the same way.
Do any representatives give their electorates regular updates on what has been happening in Parliament explaining why they voted how they did? So much has been left to the media to explain and on the whole they're after a quick, snappy story with an eye-catching headline.
Cheers,
Jim
Neil Breen openly admitted that Cate Blanchet was the headliner because in a hypothetical movie with both her and Michael Caton, then she would get first billing. :shrug: there's his logic...

[damian]

The media's job is NOT to inform you. Many people misunderstand this. The job of the media is to keep you watching so they can sell advertising.

I don't know about Caton/Blanchet. I just suppose she's a bigger target. Perhaps your right and she is percieved as more elitist. She hasn't had a particularly easy life, but she has enjoyed sucess, is well educated and makes a point of using her position to advertise her views. I don't know.

As I say in a perfect world we'd debate the issue not the person, people would be honest and forthcomming with relevent information and the electorate would be well informed engaged and well educated enough to understand what's being discussed. Obviously we aren't in that position.

It's all bad. I don't think singling out the media nor the politicians is right. The blame should be spread right round for the situation we are in.

[rrobor]

Sorry I dont get it. Fred Smith says the sky is falling in, Who the hell cares. Some actors states an opinion, Is that opinion better than yours or mine. You bet its not. So why is everybody getting their knickers in a knot. for the sake of the wee man lets get real. Please think your thoughts and stand by them. Is Cate correct, I probably am on her side, Or is she on my side?.

[damian]

I am not supporting or justifying the personal attacks, i am trying to explain them. Not all opinions are created equal. A person who is prominent in the media can inflict their view far better on more people than you or me.

A police officer or judge have special powers, if they do the wrong thing they can potentially do more harm than you or me, and it can be harder to bring them to justice.

As you say in an ideal world we're all equal, but we don't live in an ideal world. People pay more attention to the views of celebrities, and of "scientists" for that matter. having a PhD in astronomy doesn't make you a climate expert, but people don't differentiate. That person is a scientist, they must know...and scientists themselves think this way. I know from personal experience that they are never short of an opinion even if they know no more than a lay person about a subject.

You could accuse me of the same :)

[artme]

Did we all see Swanie crowing about the report that "proves" the government is correct?

It seem to me if comparisons with other coutries are made then we should be comparing like with like. "Our major trading partners" seems to be the bench mark he wants to use, Trouble is our major trading partners are highly developed industrial economies, we basically earn our keep by digging bloody great holes in the round.

Not saying the tax, or Barnaby, or Cate is right or wrong. Just think if we want to point the finger at other good examples of the case being put , then it ought to be a case of apples and apples.

[Waldo]

Did we all see Swanie crowing about the report that "proves" the government is correct?

Just think if we want to point the finger at other good examples of the case being put , then it ought to be a case of apples and apples.

And that's the big problem, Dillard is applying a tax across the whole economy, while the Yanks for an example in California only, are applying it to electricity.

Dillard with her Dumb and Dumber mob have not got an argument. :((

[jimbur]

What I'd like to hear is a politician saying, "I don't give a #### for the rest of the world, we're going to do what we think is right".
I'd much rather see action from honest belief than tinkering with an eye to the next ballot box.
cheers,
Jim

[rrobor]

Thats a pretty interesting view of democracy Jim. I believed we put politicians in to take note of the general consensus of opinion and run with that. Its not about their view, its about a majority view.
Politicians are also given a term to serve to enable the humps and hollows of popular opinion to be smoothed out. You always hear one side saying " Call an Election " if numbers stack for them, and scream at the waste of money if an election is called early, when not in their favour.
Gillard is not my choice, but she is prime minister of this country and deserves the respect shown to the that position. Waldo, to my mind disrespects the office, and as such disrespects the country. To Waldo I say your vote is your way of removing those you dont like, but when our system selects a government, the office should be respected. What you do is insult the majority of the population of this country.

[Geoff Dean]

Thats a pretty interesting view of democracy Jim. I believed we put politicians in to take note of the general consensus of opinion and run with that. Its not about their view, its about a majority view.
Politicians are also given a term to serve to enable the humps and hollows of popular opinion to be smoothed out. You always hear one side saying " Call an Election " if numbers stack for them, and scream at the waste of money if an election is called early, when not in their favour.
Gillard is not my choice, but she is prime minister of this country and deserves the respect shown to the that position. Waldo, to my mind disrespects the office, and as such disrespects the country. To Waldo I say your vote is your way of removing those you dont like, but when our system selects a government, the office should be respected. What you do is insult the majority of the population of this country.

However, in this case, the majority of the population didn't vote for her. She is only in power because of a back room deal that she made with some independents, who now wield almost more power than the government does.

Bob Brown is almost the defacto Prime Minister, and the greens only hold one seat in parliament.

[jimbur]

Could have phrased it better. The correctness or otherwise of a policy does not depend on what outside governments do or say.
Cheers,
Jim

[rrobor]

Geoff gets it incorrect again. Our system is as it is. People who complain do so because the system doesnt suit them. Well tough, get on your high horse and change it, if you can not, accept you are a minority. Jim, Sorry thought about your answer, Still thinking and getting nowhere.

[Sturdee]

Geoff gets it incorrect again.


Actually Geoff is right and you're wrong.

Peter.

[Waldo]

I have absolute disgust and disdain as to what Dillard is doing to this country, how the decision of the government has massive financial impact as to the welfare of farmers by her latest folley. For that I make no apologies for my disrespect of her.

As to the majority of the country, the majority of the country didn't vote for her. The Westminister system allowed her in by the vote of a few people.

[Geoff Dean]

Geoff gets it incorrect again

Actually, I believe I'm correct.

I have been wrong once before, I thought I made a mistake, turns out I hadn't

[rrobor]

Actually Geoff is right and you're wrong.

Peter.
No, no no Where in the name of the wee man did I say the majoriyy ruled.
We have a system where people who vote hand their power to some other person.
Now I may not agree, or you may not agree but that being so, get on your soap box elsewhere. This is the ststem. If you want change, and most do not, do your thing, But do not complaim here. That the system doesnt suit you. Tough titties.. I find that its only those when the pemdulum swings not to their liking that complain.

[Geoff Dean]

You said:
but when our system selects a government, the office should be respected. What you do is insult the majority of the population of this country.

I said:

However, in this case, the majority of the population didn't vote for her.

you then said:



No, no no Where in the name of the wee man did I say the majoriyy ruled.

I kinda think that your statement
the majority of the population of this country. implies that the majority rules.

Just my take on it.

[rrobor]

When you look at this post, you see how silly it is. Geoff misses my point. I wrote. (We have a system where people who vote hand their power to some other person).
And hones in to what suits him. Waldo hates the government in power so much that he has no vision of reality. When you deal in politics in a forum such as this you waste your time. Find a tree.

[Geoff Dean]

Maybe you need to find a bridge

[rrobor]

Maybe you need to find a bridge
Im sure , in your mind, there is clarity in that thought Geoff, I only wish most of us could see it.

[Waldo]

Rrobor, nowhere have I written anything to slander yourself, pull your head in. :((

[Geoff Dean]

Im sure , in your mind, there is clarity in that thought Geoff, I only wish most of us could see it.

Well if you pulled your head from your orifice, maybe you could.

[artme]

Now boys, absolutely no need for this tone.:no::no:

Apart from that we are geting off topic.

If you wish to debate forms of goernment and their merits I suggest you start another thread.

[RETIRED]

Tut tut kiddies.

[rrobor]

At no time did I suggest anything was slander. What I suggested was 1/ insults are childish, and 2/ You insult those who put Gillard in which by our system is the majority, so you insult Australia.
To Geoff, his tangents are the way he goes, I am sure I dont know what planet he is on, because rather than his insults, the rest to me is nonsense.

[Sturdee]

the rest to me is nonsense.

And I have the same problems with most of the posts that you have made lately.

You seem to think that the majority elected this current coalition government when the real fact is that it wasn't. After the election Labor somehow managed to get the support from three independents and another small party to form this coalition government.

That in my opinion is not a majority, but a minority government.

This still wouldn't be so bad if the government stuck to the democratic principles of the Westminster conventions where a minister resigns if the stuff up or lie to the parliament.

But under this ultimate lying prime minister that leads this government that is not the case and we have a defacto dictatorship which doesn't listen to the majority of the people and is hell bent on destroying our way of life in order to hang on power.

Of course you will disagree with this, as with many other things, so debating this at length serves no purpose and would be a waste of my time, so I will leave this debate rather than bashing my head against a brick wall.

Peter.

[Geoff Dean]

:whs:

[AlexS]

After the last election, either party would have had to do a deal to get in, and both tried. Labor succeeded. Get over it.

[Christopha]

Actually you are all wrong and I am right!


What was the question?

[Waldo]

Can I work in the shed on a Saturday planning my next project in Ketchup while I listen to Pink Floyd? :U

[ColW]

Can I work in the shed on a Saturday planning my next project in Ketchup while I listen to Pink Floyd? :U

YES! but preferably if it's Ketchup made using sustainable farming and processing techniques and Floyd is played using renewable energy!

[Waldo]

Given the choice I'd say :q to tree hugging so I can continue to listen to my music.

[ColW]

Given a choice I'd prefer 'wish you were here' for planning, 'Ummagumma' for construction and ketchup for finishing

[rrobor]

As Alex said both liberal and labor tried to form government and Labor suceeded Gillard went with policy as did Abbott, both had to modify to be accepted. The independants chose Gillard. Now if we wish to talk about minority governments, most of the time Liberals need to form a coalition with Nationals to form government, so please get real,
Some conveniently forget the Howard promise," No GST "which was a non core promise. Now GST I was against. but knew it would come regardless of which party got in because its a great tax for the politician.
As a farmers son I know better than most that nature has a fine balance, Stuff it up and you will pay dearly. Mildura was turning into a salt pan, thought and action has stopped that and irrigation continues.
People see the bogey man, its all doom and gloom. But its not, its just some methods can not continue. Look for solutions.

[damian]

Now boys, absolutely no need for this tone.:no::no:

Apart from that we are geting off topic.

If you wish to debate forms of goernment and their merits I suggest you start another thread.

Actually I did that some time ago, search is your friend.

May I echo, calm down, no need to attack one another (we should all gang up and attack the government, and the opposition, and the minor parties...independents...) :D

Look what we've come to, who ever would have predicted ME a voice of reason!

[rrobor]

I am sorry if I offend, I say it as I see it. My politics are my own, but I note this site has now tagged me. Perhaps freedom of speech is dependant on what you say. If I never return that will not be my issue. Rob

[rrobor]

I at no time insulted anybody. I, believe it or not am a swinging voter so am not your leftie or rightie.
But in this forum I have been told my head is up my ass etc etc. Now I find have to go to extreme measures to clean my computer otherwise "Hello rrobor pops up on this site and this post has vanished into days gone bye. So sorry if you wish an ultra right woodwork forum then so be it. But please have the guts to say so. I am a lover of the products of U bute, please dont spoil that by politics.

[rrobor]

I would now like to state that things are back to normal thanks to whoever,. My gratitude sir. Rob

[Geoff Dean]

Some conveniently forget the Howard promise," No GST "which was a non core promise.

And most conveniently forget that it was "No GST in the term of this government".

He called an election and stated if returned would introduce a GST. If you are going to drag up that old smokey, at least try to get it right.



I at no time insulted anybody.

You told me to go find a tree, :(( like I'm a monkey and should climb it. I found it very offensive.

[jimbur]

I would now like to state that things are back to normal. Rob
Good,
Cheers,
Jim

[rrobor]

And most conveniently forget that it was "No GST in the term of this government".

He called an election and stated if returned would introduce a GST. If you are going to drag up that old smokey, at least try to get it right.
Not going to argue that out. If you believe politicians never twist the truth and break their word, thats your thing. What Abbott promised the independants is unknown but Ill tell you one hing, it was not what he promised before the election and I bet if he got in you would not be calling him a liar.
You told me to go find a tree, :(( like I'm a monkey and should climb it. I found it very offensive.
You may note at the top of your screen it says " Woodwork Forums" That suggests its all about wood. If you wish to put some other spin on me saying "lets get back to wood" then again thats your thing.

[RETIRED]

You may note at the top of your screen it says " Woodwork Forums" That suggests its all about wood. If you wish to put some other spin on me saying "lets get back to wood" then again thats your thing.The heading on this Forum is:
NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH WOODWORK This forum is for GENERAL DISCUSSION/DEBATE/CONFRONTATION etc. on any topic you like, so long as it has NOTHING TO DO WITH WOODWORK.

[rrobor]

It would be easier for me to shut my face and accept. But shutting ones face is the act of a coward and it changes nothing. For the record I have been banned from the renovative forum, My views were not as those of the moderator and when asked to take a pill I declined. Here If you wish to check, I ask you to look at the top. Sure it may be that I was careful , Next I never mentioned woodwork. If I had to go before Melud, Guess what I am home free. The moderator here has allowed his bias to fog his view. I would ask him to view my post again. At no time did I mention woodwork and I only mentioned the top of the page not the forum selected. <O:p</O:p
So again I enter the area of “ Will I be back or will this ever be seen". Guess what If freedom of speech is not for this place then neither am I.<O:p></O:p>

[mic-d]

It would be easier for me to shut my face and accept. But shutting ones face is the act of a coward and it changes nothing. For the record I have been banned from the renovative forum, My views were not as those of the moderator and when asked to take a pill I declined. Here If you wish to check, I ask you to look at the top. Sure it may be that I was careful , Next I never mentioned woodwork. If I had to go before Melud, Guess what I am home free. The moderator here has allowed his bias to fog his view. I would ask him to view my post again. At no time did I mention woodwork and I only mentioned the top of the page not the forum selected. <o>:p</o>:p
So again I enter the area of “ Will I be back or will this ever be seen". Guess what If freedom of speech is not for this place then neither am I.<o>:p></o>:p>

This isn't a site for free speech since it is a private forum and we are here only by the good grace of the owner. I think you are going a bit over the top Rob a and you should go away for a while and chill out. It's bloody poor form to publicly critisize a mod. If you have a real concern you should resolve it behind the scenes IMHO.

[rrobor]

This isn't a site for free speech since it is a private forum and we are here only by the good grace of the owner. I think you are going a bit over the top Rob a and you should go away for a while and chill out. It's bloody poor form to publicly critisize a mod. If you have a real concern you should resolve it behind the scenes IMHO.
Oh for the sake of the wee man. But OK that is your view that we must conform and I respect that. But ask yourself , where does conforming end. Should we all go about saying Baa. At what poiint will you say, "this far and no more. Sure I may be a hothead. But the majority are influenced between extremes so you need me. And for that matter you need the other extreme. So Im sure they will have their say, your modorate view is nice, but nice just dont do it. Rob

[mic-d]

Oh for the sake of the wee man. But OK that is your view that we must conform and I respect that. But ask yourself , where does conforming end. Should we all go about saying Baa. At what poiint will you say, "this far and no more. Sure I may be a hothead. But the majority are influenced between extremes so you need me. And for that matter you need the other extreme. So Im sure they will have their say, your modorate view is nice, but nice just dont do it. Rob

No it's not my view, although I accept it. It is the view of the owner. I think you are mistaking intolerance of rudeness (not only you either) for intolerance of extreme views. If one cannot engage in civil dialogue from widely differing opinions then there can be no real dialog and you might as well go off and beat each other with rocks and sticks.

[Sturdee]

Sure I may be a hothead. But the majority are influenced between extremes so you need me.

Yes, you are a hothead and no we don't need you. Stating your point of view is welcome BUT the continual re-harping of the same thing is boring and makes you appear like a vexatious and compulsive arguer. Not very nice to be known as.



The moderator here has allowed his bias to fog his view.

being biased :rolleyes: you must be joking.


Guess what If freedom of speech is not for this place then neither am I.

In that case good bye and good luck with your projects.


Peter.

[rrobor]

No Im sorry, its not the view of the owner. What his view is I have no idea, nor do you. What I do know is someone tagged me, I complained and that tag was removed. Take what you will from that.
Now at no time have I been rude to anybody. Sure I mentioned a tree rather than wood for reasons that you now see, and someone built a fence (sorry). Show me if you can, where I was rude and I will retract, but you will not find it, delving into that sort of stuff I find reduces your arguement, as such its not the way I go.
This is the world wide web. If I take your arguement to its extreme we could have some horrific organisation spouting hate and we should all say nothing and allow Australia to be soiled. Freedom of speech implies that we all have our say. Please let the reader sort the grain from the chaff.

[Waldo]

Waldo, to my mind disrespects the office, and as such disrespects the country. To Waldo I say your vote is your way of removing those you dont like, but when our system selects a government, the office should be respected. What you do is insult the majority of the population of this country.

That insulted me and raised my ire, and thus why I posted my reply. But I move on and live another day.

[rrobor]

An honest answer Waldo, and I respect your dislike of the Gillard government. But let us modify your statements and let us apply that to black immigrants. Now do you not think you would be up to your neck in it if that were so..
To Sturdee, We all have a bias. What most people dont accept is that this is so. Nature creates bias. A white blackbird is killed after leaving the nest. You have to accept is this is natural and modify to compensate.

[Waldo]

But let us modify your statements and let us apply that to black immigrants. Now do you not think you would be up to your neck in it if that were so..

It doesn't apply, except I share the same thoughts on it as the UNHCR have. My remarks applied to Dillard and the affects to the economy.

[springwater]

rrobor in all seriousness, do you get enough sunlight in winter? Actually there's a few stars out tonight too :)

[mic-d]

No Im sorry, its not the view of the owner. What his view is I have no idea, nor do you. What I do know is someone tagged me, I complained and that tag was removed. Take what you will from that.
Now at no time have I been rude to anybody. Sure I mentioned a tree rather than wood for reasons that you now see, and someone built a fence (sorry). Show me if you can, where I was rude and I will retract, but you will not find it, delving into that sort of stuff I find reduces your arguement, as such its not the way I go.
This is the world wide web. If I take your arguement to its extreme we could have some horrific organisation spouting hate and we should all say nothing and allow Australia to be soiled. Freedom of speech implies that we all have our say. Please let the reader sort the grain from the chaff.

Well you better get abreast of Neil's views before you're out on your ear:D Maybe start by reading the forum rules. This is a private site and the benevolent dictator has the final say whether you like it or not. You can argue about it til the cows come home and do all the reductio ad absurdum you wish. It is rudeness in the extreme to call into question a moderator in public. You should deal with that in the background IMHO. You should apologise for that I reckon.

[rrobor]

Waldo it does apply. You have to respect our political system and accept that an insult to the PM is an insult to a great many Australians. I am not a lover of her government, I think she is weak but I do not go about insulting her. To Springwater, Why waste your time, I didnt find much humour in your post and it gave absolutly zero to the thread.

[springwater]

Waldo it does apply. You have to respect our political system and accept that an insult to the PM is an insult to a great many Australians. I am not a lover of her government, I think she is weak but I do not go about insulting her. To Springwater, Why waste your time, I didnt find much humour in your post and it gave absolutly zero to the thread.

Wasn't looking to humour you, wouldn't go astray though. We talking honour? Honour the the person that the "system" elects, that where you at?

[rrobor]

Well you better get abreast of Neil's views before you're out on your ear:D Maybe start by reading the forum rules. This is a private site and the benevolent dictator has the final say whether you like it or not. You can argue about it til the cows come home and do all the reductio ad absurdum you wish. It is rudeness in the extreme to call into question a moderator in public. You should deal with that in the background IMHO. You should apologise for that I reckon.
Please understand I stated fact, I was very careful to state fact and at no time did I break any rules. This is a forum and Im sure needs no one to speak for him. He is very welcome to contact me if he so desires, or to answer on this site. But please look at EXACTLY what I stated and see why I responded as I did.
No one has the right to use any medium to inflict their own view without others commenting. I at no time suggest anything about this site, But the notion that someone can set up some grizzly site and not be taken to task I find that thought shocking.

[mic-d]

But the notion that someone can set up some grizzly site and not be taken to task I find that thought shocking.

Did someone say that?

[Waldo]

We all have views, but we all have to accept them as views of others, regardless if we agree or not - especially concerning politics or religion. Whether right or wrong doesn't matter.

On other opinions I ask those who know more than me, either as sounding boards on an idea concerning a way to build something or design aesthetics, or to glean their knowledge and learn from it - those opinions matter to me.

[RETIRED]

Sturdee wrote this.

being biased :rolleyes: you must be joking.It is quite true.

I don't post my opinions on here because I have to be as impartial as I can.

I also do not let my opinions (or bias) get in the way of discussion.



The moderator here has allowed his bias to fog his view. I would ask him to view my post again. At no time did I mention woodwork and I only mentioned the top of the page not the forum selected. :p:pAs far as the bit about Woodwork. I think you are splitting hairs.

To carry it further perhaps in the Metalwork forums they should discuss what Mig or Tig welds Tassy oak the best.



You may note at the top of your screen it says " Woodwork Forums" That suggests its all about wood. If you wish to put some other spin on me saying "lets get back to wood" then again thats your thing.

[underfoot]

It would be easier for me to shut my face and accept. >
having just read your posts rrobor...I doubt this
I see this forum as I would any other social interaction...probably best approached with at least some basic good manners