Buggy Restoration

[David Mitchell]

Buggy Restoration,

I am doing volunteer work at our local museum we have an old buggy which I believe was a Taxi years ago, most of parts are there but it is missing a wheel
Dia 930 x 35.:cool:
I thought someone out there may be able to help if an old one around that was
not needed and help complete the parts for our buggy:wink:
I look forward to any help with this request.
Regards
David Mitchell:2tsup:

[HazzaB]

Hey David,

Have you thought about contacting the people at Soverign Hill at Ballarat, they used to do Wheelwrighting (Wheel building) years ago, if they don't do it they should know, then there is a similar setup just North of Sydney, or used to be. Maybe do a Google on Wheelwrights or Wheel Building, maybe that could help.

Good Luck, and some pics would be interesting:)

HazzaB

[Stewey]

the 930 dia isn't a great issue, but the 1 3/8" thickness is a bit of a rarity these days.
Actually the biggest issue is someone else with a useable wheel will not want to be suddenly minus one wheel-and the box in the centre (the bush that runs on the axle) is generally not interchangeable.

I'd be seeing Sovereign Hill, and considering getting a new one-do you have any remnants of the old one left-the hub even?

What sort of wheel is it-sarven with cast flanges, or a staggered spoke common type, or what-do you know?

Do you intend to do it up to be used, or to stay as a static display?

[David Mitchell]

the 930 dia isn't a great issue, but the 1 3/8" thickness is a bit of a rarity these days.
Actually the biggest issue is someone else with a useable wheel will not want to be suddenly minus one wheel-and the box in the centre (the bush that runs on the axle) is generally not interchangeable.

I'd be seeing Sovereign Hill, and considering getting a new one-do you have any remnants of the old one left-the hub even?

What sort of wheel is it-sarven with cast flanges, or a staggered spoke common type, or what-do you know?

Do you intend to do it up to be used, or to stay as a static display?

Hi Stewey,
Thanks for your reply.
Sovereign Hill is a possibility , But I have been told it is along wait and very expensive. :(
No remnants of the wheel at all ,but we have one complete front wheel,a little repair required and 2 back wheels. I believe it is sarven with cast flanges.
The intention is to repair it for static display:cool:
Will post some pictures.
We are also in the process of restoring a flat top wagon painting still to be completed.Picture of wagon before and at present.:;
Wheels on the wagon were very good.:B
Regards
David:2tsup:

[David Mitchell]

Hey David,

Have you thought about contacting the people at Soverign Hill at Ballarat, they used to do Wheelwrighting (Wheel building) years ago, if they don't do it they should know, then there is a similar setup just North of Sydney, or used to be. Maybe do a Google on Wheelwrights or Wheel Building, maybe that could help.

Good Luck, and some pics would be interesting:)

HazzaB

Hi HazzaB,
Thanks for your reply
Have a look at the reply I posted to Stewey I will contact Soverign Hill:?
I Will try the Google on wheel building :B
Have posted some pictures
Regards
David Mitchell:2tsup:

[wheelinround]

David there is lots about wheels on the net. Just hope Aussie doesn't see this thread :U

[crowie]

G'Day David,
I'm just in for the ride.
I'd like to see your restoration project WIP photos as you go.
Good luck.
Cheers, Crowie

[Babylon5]

I've just had to get some wagon wheels custom made. You are looking at around $700-$1000 for a pair.

Shane.

[Stewey]

Who did them that cheaply, Shane?

Dave- if looking at getting another wheel pinched from somewhere, you would first need to find a 'box' which is the chilled iron (a variation of cast iron) centre bush that goes in the nave/hub and which rotates or wears on the axle.

Once you have a box of the right length & fit over your axle end, then getting a wheel & fitting the box to it is slightly less of an ordeal. The trouble is, as I said before, they are seldom interchangeable. Occasionally you can fluke it, and 'usually' left & right wheels from the same axle are swappable, but I have encountered many which are NOT, not even just from one side to the other.

Sov. Hill will be a wait, and might be dear, but the quality will be tops. They may have 'ornamental' grade wheels, which might suit your purpose though-it's worth asking.
When I was there about 15 years ago, they used to get a % of 2nd grade hubs & spokes, and while they put the 1st grade ones away to season for future wheels, the 2nd grade ones were suitable for making into ornamental grade wheels- and were still quite fair.

Maybe they don't do that anymore-I don't know-it was 15 years ago I'm talking about.

[Babylon5]

Who did them that cheaply, Shane?



I sourced from two different businesses in the end as I need 3 pairs of wheels but only one set needed to be in working order with an axle.

I am getting wooden ornamental wagon wheels from Mark Burton (pm me and I'll pass on his email/phone number). I'm buying some ones sourced directly from the states but he can make them custom made.

The other wagon wheels are constructed from steel and they are custom made by STEEL BUGGY WHEELS (http://www.steelbuggywheels.com.au/)

Just made sure you shop around first before getting the wheels. I got some local quotes in brisbane for just a pair of very plain wheels (70cm diameter) and pricing ranged from over $1100 to $3000.

Shane.

[Stewey]

Thanks-I only asked, as there are 'too many' people calling themselves wheelwrights whose work is cheapish but dear enough, but which is very substandard in quality-that's all.

$1100-$3000 is more like what I would have expected-if the person doing it really knows their business and is supplying properly seasoned timber, guaranteed not to shrink afterwards, and the workmanship is tops...

...but there are 'cowboys' about, some of whose work I have seen in which wheels sent in for 'repair' came back 'fixed' and in a worse state than before they were sent away...

and if a wheel fails in use, it becomes a life-threatening situation.

Mark Burton IS good, and many of the imported USA wheels are great value also.
I personally am not impressed by the way they tend to laminate blocks together to make material for the hub, which they then turn down. I was always told/taught that the hub block should resemble a tree trunk, with all spoke mortises being radial to the centre. A lot of american stuff I have seen is either glued up blocks, eg three 9"x3" boards about 11" long, glued to become a 9"x9" which is then turned down to make an 8.5 to 9" diam. nave., or for smaller ones, they take a plain piece of backsawn 4x4" or 5x5" and turn it round-again the middle of the hub is not the centre of the 'tree'.
Maybe they feel that is OK over there, but it is a foreign practise over here in 'real wheels!

I've made plenty enough of them myself. but am not interested really in doing it for others-the work involved, and the supply of top quality seasoned timber that I will stand behind, is beyond what most people will pay. I can occasionally be convinced otherwise, but we're busy enough doing what we already are for good customers!

One future project for us here is an old wool waggon-the back wheels are 6 ft diameter, and the tyre is 4.5" across-it needs all new spokes & felloes. Quite an ordeal...but it'll be a keeper when we do it. No hurry, it's an old 'Bennett' waggon-they were a class on their own!

We're also painting up a gypsy waggon ('ledge' style) for a client. Phenomenal work.
The carvings are done by Bruce Weir in T'wmba & Bill Ross is doing the bodywork-a really nice job on both parts. It has imported wheels from Moscow carriage or wheel works (USA). They're nice, though they copped a bit of a ding or three in transit.

I did build a Cobb & Co coach entirely from scratch about 10-11 years ago also. that was a big job.

http://www.traditionalsigns.com/assets/images/Iskcoa_0.jpg

Here's another 'before & after' we did in the mid 1990s
http://www.traditionalsigns.com/assets/images/Lorry_cn.JPG
http://www.traditionalsigns.com/assets/images/Lorry_bk.JPG
http://www.traditionalsigns.com/assets/images/Lorry_RR.JPG

Anyhow, must go-work to do!

[Babylon5]

Yeah my wheels I need are only for a food cart so it's more display then practical applications like for a horse drawn wagon. Some very nice work you have produced :2tsup:

I can understand that professional made wagon wheels would cost thousands of dollars but I'll show you a picture of what I wanted duplicated and the price to replicate these wheels were $1100-$3000 for a set. As you can see, they aren't exactly highly detailed wheels :roll: and only 70cm diameter.

You can see now why I opted to go with the other steel wagon wheels, which were only $700 for a pair. Ps. the red wheels were the $700 a pair. I probably would of gone with wooden wheels custom made by Mark but he is currently in the states and I needed one pair of wheels asap.



Shane.

[Stewey]

The red steel ones look good for the price & very practical.
I can understand your price range preferences-I'm not meaning to sound critical at all-sorry!

We tend to do work for people who want only museum standard or 'Royal Show' quality first-place & championship type stuff. Has to be useable, practical, and good enough to convince the judges that there is none better in paintwork, decoration, woodwork or metalwork or overall style...

I was just meaning to advise a caution against assessing value or quality on price alone-many of the cheaper offerings in the wheel department are best avoided-but there is still value in some-you just have to know what you're looking at- a bit like the difference between new chinese wood chisels & Stanley, Ward or Marples brand ones-to the novice-they're all just a chisel and the "four sizes for $10" deal sounds great!

[Babylon5]

That's okay, no offence taken. I was just pointing out the difference in requirements for what I needed to supply to my client. Your work is fantastic and I can understand that work of your quality would cost thousands of dollars. But in saying that you can see where all the money goes as in quality wise etc.

[wheelinround]

Stewey magnificent work

When doing my 1st year apprentice TAFE course Coach Builder (course name later changed to Motor Vehicle Builder) we also were taught hubs are to be made one piece. Wheel design for spokes varied throughout out the world with US style which splay outwards the worst design.

[Stewey]

Thanks for the compliments!

That's interesting that they were still teaching about wooden hubs as late as that!
I know the name stayed as 'coachbuilding' for a long time-another friend of mine did it under than name also & went into building trams for the Brisbane council.

[AUSSIE]

Wheely put me onto this thread,knowing my interest in this subject.But on a smaller scale.
I have some photos of wheel making at Sovereign Hill ,about 2 years ago while doing research for my scale model Concord Stage Coach > i will dig them out if you are interested.I think I have posted some awhile ago in a thread as well:?
Pic is of 7" wheel I am making
Sorry for a bit of a hijack.I want to keep track of this subject:2tsup:

[wheelinround]

Thanks for the compliments!

That's interesting that they were still teaching about wooden hubs as late as that!
I know the name stayed as 'coachbuilding' for a long time-another friend of mine did it under than name also & went into building trams for the Brisbane council.

Yes 1970/71 was the name change the course changed much from late 70's now is broken up so far, restoration work is a different course, Fiberglass.

Yes one of our class fellows moved to Brissy with his parents tried to get into Denning who ran their own classes :no:. They got him transferred to Brissy Council's vehicle building section but not without lots of hassle and Ultimo TAFE teachers fight for him.

[Babylon5]

Sorry for hijacking this thread, but I thought with the experience of the people that have already posted in this thread, they might be able to help me with a wooden chassis.

I am currently making some simple food trolleys, roughly 2 metres in length x 1 metre wide and 2 metres high. I was going to attach the wheel axle to the trolley via welding metal support and bolting straight to the wooden frame. Like in the first picture of the original trolley I'm reproducing.

But welding or using all metal supports is not an option and I would like to use a mostly wooden under carriage/chassis. In the other pictures attached, this is an idea of how I was going to do it. The overall weight of the trolley will be very small, nothing compared to the weights involved with full blown horse drawn carriages/buggies. It will just be for displaying and serving food in a hotel.

I'm planning to attach the axle to the wood frame by using u-bolts. But if anyone can suggest a better method please let me know as having never built anything like this I'm flying by the seat of my pants and I'd rather get it right on the first attempt. I attempted to google some answers, but only found really technical drawings with suspensions etc or made from metal :(

Regards,
Shane.

[Stewey]

Hardware store u-bolts will be quite fine for what you want to do.

The other option in your case is take a wooden block, and drill a hole in it with a spade bit at the same diameter as the 'axle' shaft you have. Then cut this in half, and bolt the two halves on - one each side- with the half hole on the underneath, so it sits over the axle.

You can still use a u-bolt up from underneath then, through this, or some bent flat bar over the bottom & screwed up underneath the axle.