Rusting Paint tins

[BobL]

Why is it that every can of paint I bought in the last 5 years is as rusty or rustier than some that are 20+ years old?

I dragged a 4L can of white latex paint I bought 3 years ago out onto my work bench and then got called away and came back to find it had leaked all over my bench and onto the floor.

Are the paint manufacturers doing this deliberately or ???

Anyone have a solution to this?

[Pops]

Hi Bob,

Good question. I have found the same thing, the bottoms all rust out.

Agreed to store a mate's garden shed contents while he did a renovation, included lots of paint tins, 4 years later they were still in my shed, went to pick them up and ended up with paint all over the shed floor. The bottoms had rusted out. Not happy Jan.

Cheers
Pops

[beer is good]

Hi Bob,
After many painting jobs I have come to the conclusion the keeping a tin with a few centimetres of paint in is a bad idea. Firstly, the tins do rust and contaminate the paint (before they leak all over the floor), and you can't use the paint to do a touch up because the wall/ceiling paint has faded or become dirty and the touch up stands out like dog's bollocks. Also, I have noticed that some water based paints go bad after a few years and really stink.

I have tried keeping paint in a plastic drum )2 or 3 litres) with a good lid. They don't rust but some of them do smell.

I am now moving to buying the right amount of paint and tossing what is left over, then buy new paint in 5, 10 or 20 years - whenever the repainting bug appears.

[murray44]

I guess when you say 'rusting through' , you mean from the inside out.

I've seen paint tins rust from the ouside in, particularly if they're left sitting on a cold hard surface e.g. concrete, with no air gap under them. You get condenastion on the underside of the tin and bingo, rust.

[Handyjack]

Paint just does not keep.
Water based paints rust the tin or go off. Oil based skin and dry out. As beer is good suggest, it is not worth keeping a little bit of paint. I have even tossed a new tin of paint that I kept a couple of years because of rust.
When I ask clients if they have paint to touch up an area I am shown a collection of tins that have often been kept outside - I will not use them except to get the colour name or formula to try and match.

[BobL]

Hi Bob,
After many painting jobs I have come to the conclusion the keeping a tin with a few centimetres of paint in is a bad idea. Firstly, the tins do rust and contaminate the paint (before they leak all over the floor), and you can't use the paint to do a touch up because the wall/ceiling paint has faded or become dirty and the touch up stands out like dog's bollocks.

I'm talking tins that are still 3/4 full. I know what you mean about the rust affecting the paint. We have a built in cupboard where the frame and architraves were painted one year and then with the same can of paint a year later but unbeknownst to us a some rust flakes fell into the paint from the lid but I kept on painting assuming the slight colour difference was due to the paint being wet - but it wasn't and now it stands out.

[Sapling]

Can only suggest it's because of the water base nature of new paints. Have thrown out my fair share as well.

[Christos]

I have had to happen to me some 10 - 15 years ago and in light of this I keep the paint tins in plastic shppoing bags.

Getting a little side tracked here I have been told that once you open the tin the paint it starts to go off as the seal of the can is not longer tight as it was originally. It was suggested after closing the can to turn this upside down. This prevents air from getting inside the can.

I have done this from two perspectives with my finishes and some paint cans also in the plastic bags.

[Big Shed]

Rusting of paint tins has been a problem for paint manufacturers ever since water based emulsion paints were introduced.

When emulsion paint is manufactured the pH of the paint is adjusted to a range 7.5 to 9.5, as the emulsion is not stable below 7.0. This adjustment is generally done with ammonia, some manufacturers use amines, which are less volatile.

Over time on storage the ammonia evaporates and the pH lowers to the acidic side on storage, especially in part filled tins.

There 2 ways to combat this, first store the paint in plastic containers, but this adds to the cost of the paint. Second coat the inside of the tin with an epoxy based varnish, this works but only for a limited time as the joins between sides bottom are particularly prone to attack.

If you have left over paint that you want use at a leter stage for touch up etc, the best way is to decant it in to plastic container that seals properly and have as little air space as possible.

Paint manufacturers also add fungicides to the emulsion paint in an effort to overcome fungal attack, waterbased paints are an ideal environment for this fungal attack. Again, over time these become less effective, particularly in warm/hot storage areas.

[MICKYG]

If you store your paint tins on timber slats they generally will not rust away. Make sure the lid is fitted into a clean groove then seal around the tin with duct tape to make it air tight. I have tins which have lasted and in good condition including the paint after ten years using this method.


Regards Mike :2tsup:

[Bob38S]

I can understand the frustrations as I have over the years had similar experiences, especially if you are doing the painting over a period of time and not using it all at once.

However, my biggest gripe over the whole paint problem is the restricted tin sizes - you either buy large and save on the per litre cost but have larger than necessary leftovers, or you buy small and the excessive costs associated with buying enough paint to do a job with the minimum of leftovers nearly force you to sell a kidney to buy the paint. I understand that buying 4 X 1 litre tins should be more expensive than buying 1 X 4 litre tin but do not accept that the differences are or need to be as huge as they are in reality.

[beer is good]

:whs:

[BobL]

Thanks for the tip about the wooden slats and plastic tubs

[Handyjack]

I once tried turning the paint tin upside down - the lid rusted. :(

[Bushmiller]

I have had this happen to two tins this year, but just pin holes and no real rust on the outside.

One was a tin of bondcrete and I can't remember the other ( both 4L about half full). I turned them upside down and sealed the holes with silastic.

Regards
Paul

[Bob38S]

If you can't decant into another container and as a short term fix [have been successful for a period of approx 5 months] for air in the tin - go to the $2 shops or toystore and buy a couple of bags of glass marbles - these can be added to the tin to reduce the volume of air while not affecting the paint - to remove the marbles when necessary - scoop out the marbles rather than pour the whole tin's contents - I have used a clean 2L Pepsi bottle with the bottom cut off - the marbles jam in the neck and allows the paint to fall through - when drained wash the marbles in the appropriate solvent and you are ready to go again.

[Pagie]

Just toss it out or paint the end of logs with it. It makes no sense to save as next time u want to paint u will want a different colour anyway.

[GeorgieP]

Hi guys FYI there also exists collapsible bottle/containers, that go about partially dealing with this problem. Collapsible Bottle - Lee Valley Tools (http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=20052)

I have quite a few of these, and they are really useful as they eliminate the problem of rust, and storage of almost empty paint tins (due to the collapsible concertina design).
They seem to be made of some strong plastic, and seal well.

PS. I f anyone knows any local suppliers of these, the information would be appreciated :).

Cheers

GeorgieP

[murray44]

When emulsion paint is manufactured the pH of the paint is adjusted to a range 7.5 to 9.5, as the emulsion is not stable below 7.0. This adjustment is generally done with ammonia, some manufacturers use amines, which are less volatile.


Ammonia eh? That explains why my new 4L tin of paint smelt stongly of it. It was a brand I hadn't used before. Thanks Big Shed (bragger :U)

[BamBam53]

Back in the early 90's Benjamin Moore imported water based paint into New Zealand from the United States. The lining on the imported cans was really good and the cans did not rust.

The general manager of one of the local can makers picked up on this and started some work to improve the quality of the locally made cans. The secret of the American cans was that they had a two coat lining rather than the single coat epoxy that was used at the time (and probably still is). Cans were made, tested and everything looked good. The new non-rust can would cost have cost a little bit more than the old ones and that is where the work stopped. The paint companies did not want to pay more fore better quality cans.

Here in New Zealand 8 and 10 litres are packed in plastic pails and the paint keeps well. I have some fifteen year old Dulux Spruce that is still useable. Anything in a metal can will rust from the inside out very quickly.