Wax over tung oil advice

[yashinskiy]

Hey,
Normally use couple of coats of Wattyl Estapol Tung oil on bigger surfaces.
My Wagner got wet in the floods, so in the meanwhile i can't get a reasonable
top coat with a brush so decided to finish off with a coat of wax. Tried U-beut's
Traditional wax and just couldn't get it right. Tried as per instructions, tried power buffing with lambs wool and also very fine sponge on Rotex. Just couldn't
get an even coat. It seams to dry quite fast and it is a job and a half to get the excess off. May be just an old can.??

Found an old tin of Gilly Stephensons Dark wax and that seemed to do the trick, but still doesn't feel 100%. Any advice?? Ideally i would like to apply over tung oil with Rotex. Also, may be the sponge is too fine...hmm

[ubeaut]

You're only supposed to apply it sparingly. Don't put it on thick, light even wipe over leave it to dry then buff it with a clean soft cloth turning regularly.

Wax will only enhanse a really good finish. If the finish isn't great to start with wax isn't going to help it all that much. If it starts out feeling a bit ordinary the wax isn't going to make it better, maybe a bit shinier but still not going to feel much better.

:U

[yashinskiy]

hey,
thanks for reply. What I am doing is creating a build with tung oil, then I sand it back with higher grits to get rid off any imperfections, so essentially I end up with a very smooth finish. So it is only the shine that i need to put back on it, and I figured the wax is the way to go. Is my logic flawed?

- Tung oil seals the timber.
- Extra coats create more build;
- sanding the surface with 240 and so forth eliminates all the imperfections as well as the sheen.
- Wax puts the sheen back, reflecting perfect surface underneath.
- Sheen can be regulated by types of waxes/polishes and perhaps the number of coats(depending on the product).

Would love to get feed back on that

Alex

[ubeaut]

You need to sand to at least 1200grit or above to get a really good finish. The higher you sand the better the diniash will be and the higher and deeper the shine. Sounds like what you need to try is some EEE-Ultra Shine (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/eee.htm) which begins cutting at around 1200 grit and breaks down to as much as 20,000 grit and above but continues to cut/polish as it breaks down.

Hope this is of some help/

Cheers - Neil :U

PS I would be more inclined to begin sanding back with 320 or 400 rather than at 240.

[yashinskiy]

Thanks for your advice, at least I am somewhat on the right track i guess. I've never really went to as higher grits as 1200. If I start at say 320, as per your recommendation, to sand back the tung oil to smooth, what grit increments are reasonable until i can apply EEE to achieve good results.

Thanks a lot for your time.

[yashinskiy]

if I decided to stay with this technique, is there a better alternative then tung oil for this particular application. Thanks

[rsser]

Haven't tried your version of oil, solvent and resins.

My preferred finish for darker timbers is Rustins Danish Oil. V. easy to use but prob got fewer resins in it than your Wattyl so may need more coats.

BTW, as Neil implied, you got a wax build up through starting with too much. If the wood is sound, try 0000 steel wool to cut back the wax and start again. Don't use it if you have voids, sap lines or near natural edges.

[yashinskiy]

thanks for your input, Ern.
I'll give Rustin's a shot. I guess what I am trying achieve is a system that I can rely on. I've tried a few most common things used for finishing in the industry. I settled with tung oil because it's one tin. No thinners, no hardeners that you always run out in the most inconvenient times. Easy to repair. Flexible for slabs, durable for floors and round the house things. Warm sheen. Downside for me is how liquid it is, I was never able to brush it on properly. Spraying was quite good. So I figured if I can use wax on sanded Tung oil it will tick even more boxes, especially for working indoors on site, where you cannot spray. Plus wax makes it more personal sort of thing. May be it's silly, but we merely touch timber with our hands. Sanders, sprayers and out of the door. That's probably the gist of my research. The EEE plan sounds quite good, even though it will involve a fair bit more sanding, i think the result will be superior.

Thanks guys.

Alex

[rsser]

Hmm. Sorry; it's now a bit clearer as to your applications.

I'm not sure I'd still recommend Rustins, with or without ubeaut Trad Wax, for floors. This isn't my patch but other members have spoken favorably about Feast Watson Floorseal. Eg. click
(http://www.woodworkforums.com/archive/index.php/t-125158.html)
I've used FW Scandinavian Oil on woodturnings; it comes up with a higher lustre than Rustins DO, has more resins and is prob somewhat more durable. I prefer the Rustins for it's lower lustre and it's hard to get it wrong.

Bear in mind that a 'tung oil' product may have only a little of that commodity in it. The pure stuff is very expensive, dries hard but takes a while to do so AFAIK. Mostly the term is a marketing device.

[yashinskiy]

well aware of the fact about the tung oil. This particular product probably doesn't even have any in it. Though I've tried a couple of different ones(with tung oil label) and the Watyll one seems to be a better one. As you mentioned it's all just resins, dryers and oils sometimes in different proportions, brewed for different periods of time. So it's really just good old trial and error.
Ern, do you do much furniture? What is your preferred finishing method on bigger pieces, if you do make any.

Cheers, Alex

[rsser]

Just woodturnings Alex.

At shows I've seen products like Organoil applied to table tops with a ROS, which builds up an oil/dust slurry to help fill the grain.

A year or two ago Aust Wood Review did a bit of a test of oil finishes - colour, water resistance etc. If you go back through the indexes on their website you may be able to order a back copy.

[Horsecroft88]

Hi guys I will quickly jump in here to add my own experience re the various finishes etc. Neil I think is spot on, ditto most of the other comments. For me the type of finish I use and whether or not to apply a wax finish depends on what the application is for. Let me explain.

In terms of furniture, and given I only restore and have antique furniture, I only use shellac and bees wax (aka a French Polish finish). Indeed I always cut back with 0000 steel wool on all furniture projects, prior to applying two coats of bees wax. I havn't yet tried hard shellac but I suspect it would be really good for certain situations and need to get some.

I also use shellac/bees wax for all the joinery (doors, architraves, skirtings , reveals, window frames and mantles) in my houses, given they are both historic houses and are chock a block with Cedar, Huon, Baltic, Kauri, Oregan pines. etc.

For the floors, after sanding back using an orbital sander (slow but ensures that the floors are never sanded too hard, I apply two coats of shellac and then applied Tung oil/Poly mix (mostly Feast Watson and another local paint shop suppliers brand). I never wax these, since I can get all the sheene and nice feel through cutting back between each coat. I always apply 3-4 coats for floors. Especially in high traffic areas or wet areas. The floors are mostly Tassie oak, but some sections also are baltic pine, or Blackwood. This treatment for all the floors comes up a real treat, and I always use a brush for suchy applications and never have had a problem with brush marks showing up once it is dry. I use a fairly broad bristle brush for such applications.

I tried Tung Oil/poly on my Oregan Pine bench top in the kitchen with Huon splashbacks. It worked great, albeit that it is really due for a sand back and reapplication. But the kitchen has now been in use for 9 years since it was rennovated. I have also used this on the vanity unit tops (one old baltic the other new celary) in both houses. The trick here with these surfaces was to sand back between each coat of Tung oil/poly using 360 + grade and being really fussy in removing all dust.

I did try using Organoil on the bench tops next to my stove at home, and regularly re wax this. It has remained in excellent condition, albeit I am careful never to place a hot object on these surfaces or allow water to sit on them. I am sure it would mark. The Tung oil/Poly mix doesn't seem to be bothered by heat. I wouldn't mind getting some more of this to try it again, as I have plenty of woody surfaces to restore in our current restoration project (our 1826 farmhouse).

I have used Tung Oil/Poly on the wooden floor of my verandah, and the outside surfaces of doors at home. In truth while it looks great; for those surfaces that are exposed to strong sunlight and/or rain it hasn't lasted too great. There is one door which doesn't receive either of these aspects of weather and the coating on this only needs to be re-freshed every 2-4 years.

I have never tried Danish oil, though regularly and liberally apply Linseed oil to my outside dinning setting. It looks good for about a month before slowly going off. Mind you I am not too fussed about this.