Cutting 2-Pac Matt Finish to get a satin finish

[Brendon5374]

I know using a cutting compound on satin 2-pac and I end up with a near gloss finish. Would a light sand and cut on matt 2-pac end up with a satin finish?

Anyone actually done this with matt?

[gooma]

Hi Brendon,

Here`s a good article on cutting back finishes,
Finishes and finishing techniques - Google Books (http://books.google.com.au/books?id=yT2en6GNaPgC&pg=PA50&lpg=PA50&dq=rubbing+back+a+lacquer+finish&source=bl&ots=5MFyrqKcyE&sig=ZZ-b4N12S3KF1t8GOPQ3ptUIxLw&hl=en&ei=OvZBTeasC9D4cZKgvKEO&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=rubbing%20back%20a%20lacquer%20finish&f=false)

I use a 3m grey scotchbrite with a water/detergent lubricant over a 30% Gloss Laquer. I dont wax it if i want a lower gloss sheen, or i`ll apply some wax after rubbing if the customer wants a bit higher gloss.

[Brendon5374]

Hi Gooma,

Sending it off is not an option because my customer sometimes wants it tomorrow.

Its 2-pac white satin. I have tried an orbital sander with 1500, Wet and dry up to 2000, and a cutting compound.

The cutting compound leaves the finish pretty clean, but it makes it too glossy.

The abrasives (above) leave very fine scratches which is not acceptable. And I have been careful. I've come close, but no cigar. I used a very fine abravive (1500) water lube on a 3 mill Festool orbital and kidded my self I got the job done. But a friend said it looked like the top had a slightly "worn" look to it. I had to admit he was right

I will try the 3m grey scotchbrite with a water/detergent lubricant. Does it come in different courseness?

[Brendon5374]

Hi Goober,

won't an abrasive like 3m grey scotchbrite still leave riny scratches making the finish look a little worn?

I have use up to 2000 wet and dry and wet orbital sander (3mill) at about 1500 coarse. I end up with a slightly scratchy slightly scatchy finish. And I'm very careful.

[ubeaut]

Try the w& d using FoodSafe+ (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/FS+.htm) as a lubricant (no it's not red that's the colour of the bottle). It makes the sanding more controlled and wipes off when finished without leaving a film or extra shine.

I have found it much easier to cut back to semi and mat from a higher gloss.

Hope this is of some help.

Cheers - Neil :U

[Brendon5374]

Goober,

I tried fine non 3m version of the scotchbrite with some lube (water detergent) and there was a big improvement over previous attempts.

I'm not sure if it would be good enough for the top as my finicky client would for sure notice the tiny sanding grain. But the kickers pass muster.

Thanks

[Brendon5374]

Hi Neil,

I might give it a try.

When you say "it makes the sanding more controlled" do you mean with hand sanding, scotch brite, or orbital? Do you end up with a better finish, and what have you noticed is the improvement.

I have a Festool 3 mill orbital and one of the things I notice is a new pad - the fine ones, 1000 and higher - cuts almost immediately but after about 20 seconds of sanding, they don't and it almost becomes a fine ineffective polisher. Neither performance is what I want. Even wetting does not change this much.

Either way, no matter what technique I use on the orbital, I end up with millions of tiny little swirls (3 miil) that are visible enough to make the finish loiok smooth but worn.

BTW, I and painting with 2-pac white satin finish.

[gooma]

Hi Neil,

I might give it a try.

When you say "it makes the sanding more controlled" do you mean with hand sanding, scotch brite, or orbital? Do you end up with a better finish, and what have you noticed is the improvement.

I have a Festool 3 mill orbital and one of the things I notice is a new pad - the fine ones, 1000 and higher - cuts almost immediately but after about 20 seconds of sanding, they don't and it almost becomes a fine ineffective polisher. Neither performance is what I want. Even wetting does not change this much.

Either way, no matter what technique I use on the orbital, I end up with millions of tiny little swirls (3 miil) that are visible enough to make the finish loiok smooth but worn.

BTW, I and painting with 2-pac white satin finish.

Hi Brendon,

Sorry i`m late replying, had some wild storms here and lost power for a few days.
Neil also has a good article in his Polishers book so i`d also recomend picking up a copy of that.

I generally wet sand by hand with a 400grit then a 600grit a few days (or a week in winter) after the last coat has gone on.
Just to de-nib and remove dust specs etc.

Then rub with the grey scotchbrite with a water/soapy lubricant. Allways rub with the grain in long strokes, a very simular method to spraying, but i overlap about 90%. I apply some preassure but dont press to hard.
It`s possible the scotchbrite you used may have been to course, the green one is too course for this as you`ll end up with scratches that wont come out.

After reading this i`ll try some U-Beaut Foodsafe+ as a lubricant as that sounds like it`d be ideal.

All this said i`m sure others have their own methods of rubbing out a laquer.

[ubeaut]

The oil will slow the cut a little and stop the clogging of the abrasive which gives the swirl marks. The surface needs to be spotless and you only need to sand for a very short periods and check your progress. It's easy to go too far as you've already discovered.

However I wouldn't be sanding a finish with an orbital sander. Festool Random Orbital with a 3mm throw BRILLIANT, but straight orbital. Nup. You'd much better sanding by hand with a sanding block than a bog standard orbital sander. Not that Festool make anything really bog standard.