Danish oil

[chris_stam]

I have just completed my dining table out of recycled jarrah and finishing it with Rustins danish oil. I am having a few problems with applying the final coats on the top. When I apply the danish oil with a brush and then wipe it off with some rags I am finding hard to wipe it off without leaving some sort of marks which cause a bit of roughness. If I use 0000 steel wool over it it removes the roughness but I feel I shouldn't have to do this. What do people recommend rubbing between coats...Some people have said 1200 wet and dry sandpaper. Any recomendations would be appreciated....

[Scally]

Chris
The only time I have problems with Danish oil is if I am too slow wiping off the excess. You end up dragging the cloth through the partially dry oil causing a rough finish.
Steel wool and wet and dry can both improve a finish. Normally a surface sanded to 320 grit wouldn't need this. They also take off much of the excess oil. You have to work quickly or add more oil to keep the finish from drying out before you polish it off.

Try using less time between applying the oil and wiping it off. Then change to a clean cotton rag and polish the surface until it is smooth and dry.
good luck

[Cliff Rogers]

G'day.

I think that Rustins have had a bit of a dick around with their danish oil receipt... :confused:

It seems to go dull & not polish up like it used to.

Do like Scally says, wipe it off sooner.

[jur]

I also have had less than success with Rustins. I contacted them to ask if I could dilute the stuff, eg with gum turpentine, they said yes. This will have the effect that the oil will remain fluid longer and wiping off will be easier. If it becomes tacky, it means that you dont have enough oil on there. It should be flooded.

This whole issue of flooding and then wiping is very wasteful to me. Heck, the stuff costs enough, then you end up wasting 80% of it in the rags that you discard. If you have a large workpiece like a table or my benchtop then this is a serious consideration, because I simply could not rub off fast enough before tackiness set in, due to the massive size.

I ended up making my own Danish oil and I am very happy with the results. (I took 40% Feast Watson Tung Oil Finish, 40% white spirits and 10% Organoil.)

[chris_stam]

Guys thanks for the prompt responses. That is why these forums are so valuable. I also think that my other problem was that I was applying it every 8-10 hrs which might of lifting the previous coat which was causing it to be tacky. I am planing to leave the current coat on for about a week before I have another attempt. I have applied for coats on the legs and rails and have had no problems. I think because the workpiece is so large its daunting when you flood it and trying to get it all off with a couple of rags. When I put it on next time I might have a lot more rags on standby....

[Greg_stewy]

I ended up making my own Danish oil and I am very happy with the results. (I took 40% Feast Watson Tung Oil Finish, 40% white spirits and 10% Organoil.)

Jur,

What did you use for the other 10%???

[jur]

Bugger. Must have been elbow grease.:D

Make that 50% Tung oil finish.

[chris_stam]

My other question is if you do end up with a couple of streaks from wiping the danish oil, instead of trying to put on another coat everytime trying to avoid streaks can I just rub it back with 0000 steel wool and buff it with traditional wax or should I use eee cream instead or both......

[rsser]

I ended up making my own Danish oil and I am very happy with the results. (I took 40% Feast Watson Tung Oil Finish, 40% white spirits and 10% Organoil.)

Why the Organoil JUR, and which one?

PS I've had variable results from the Rustin's - my first tin - and have put it down to variation in the porosity of the timber and time left before wiping.

When I did get streaks I buffed the bowl with the famous ubeaut Swansdown buff. That got rid of them but raised the level of sheen beyond what I was aiming for.

[jur]

Why the Organoil JUR, and which one?To be perfectly honest, I don't know myself.

But there are a couple reasons that i imagine to be valid:

1. The oil will lengthen the working time - this worked very well. There was no tackiness at any stage, but I was still pleasantly surprised how quickly it dried once I stopped working the surface. I can't explain that, seems contradictory.

2. I like the smell.

3. The other thing I noticed about Organoil is, it darkens/deepens the color of redgum quite dramatically.

I used Organoil Hard Burnishing Oil (name correct?).

This project was my redgum island bench top.

I have to add here that I did not wipe it all off after the final application because after many experiments I found the wet look showed off the vivid redgum grain to best effect, so at the final stage I wiped my oil formula on with a sponge wrapped in a soft paper disposable "cloth". This allowed very easy application with no streakiness, and due to the delay in drying, I was able to work and re-work places until I was perfectly satisfied. I then had the fear of dust settling, but to my great surprise, there was absolutely none, not even the smallest speck. I can't explain it. It is the most perfect surface I ever produced, so good that I am unwilling to do it again for fear of failing to reproduce that result.

Just this weekend I made a chopping board from the round piece that came from the bench top where the round prep sink bowl is installed, and again I was struck by the darkening of the redgum after doing the Organoil wet sanding.

I routed the edge so it fits into the sink bowl, the woodgrain matching the benchtop perfectly because that's where it came from in the first place, looks really magic. SWMBO does not want to use the chopping board, it looks too good.:D

[scooter]

Sounds grouse Jur, any chance of some closeup pics??

Cheers........Sean, another fan of oiled fiddleback redgum

[jur]

OK, I'll take some pics tonight and post them tomorrow.

[jur]

Posted my pics, see "Benchtop from hell" in the photo section.

[Stuart G]

I am also interested in making my own Danish oil. From what I have read (including Neil's book), it seems that the DO is a mix of varnish and oil.

Given that Jur's recipe is FW Tung Oil Finish mixed with white spirits, isn't that more like thinned Tung Oil, rather than a DO? Or is there enough varnish in the FW Tung Oil Finish to give it DO characteristics?

Any thoughts?

thnnks,
Stuart

[conwood]

Guys thanks for the prompt responses. That is why these forums are so valuable. I also think that my other problem was that I was applying it every 8-10 hrs which might of lifting the previous coat which was causing it to be tacky. I am planing to leave the current coat on for about a week before I have another attempt. I have applied for coats on the legs and rails and have had no problems. I think because the workpiece is so large its daunting when you flood it and trying to get it all off with a couple of rags. When I put it on next time I might have a lot more rags on standby....
Hi Chris,
The I have tried rustins and cabots. Don't like the rustins either. Cabots is better as is doesn't dry too quickly. Other finishing advice given is good.

conwood

[jur]

Stuart,

Sorry it was Intergrain, not FW's Tung Oil Finish (and these are all Orica as is Cabots and Dulux). The name Tung Oil Finish is misleading (perhaps a bit deliberately so), because it is not raw tung oil as the name seems to suggest, it is a varnish, made by modifying tung oil; all varnishes are made this way, by modding a vegetable oil by chemically bonding a resin to the oil molecule. The type of oil is less important that the amount of oil; the Tung Oil Finish is 70% modded tung oil and 30% resins, and called a long oil. Danish oils are perhaps 75% oil (called a very long oil). The amount of oil determines the flexibility - the more resin, the harder.

I called my concoction a Danish oil immodestly because it aint strictly speaking. But that is how I used it.

I added raw tung oil (Organoil) to increase the working time, and this seemed to have worked well. It may also have been the large amount of thinning agent I added that lengthened the working time. I phoned the Orica help line and asked if I could mix in raw tung oil with the Tung Oil Finish and the guy said yes.

So, to get back to your question, there is 50% varnish in my concoction, 40% thinners and 10% raw oil. From that point of view there is no problem.

The percentage of solids in a mix is apparently also important. By adding all that thinners in my mix, the percentage solids went down drastically. I don't know what effect that has. But a month later I am still greatly happy with my result.
Here is a great link about varnishes: http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00063.asp

[rsser]

Blue Mountains Wood Turners have posted a recipe: varnish (eg. estapol), linseed oil and turps. Or varnish, tung oil and white spirits. Change the proportions to change the application.

See http://www.pnc.com.au/~k_j/woodturner/Pages/TipsOils.htm

[Richardwoodhead]

I started woodworking 4 years ago and have gone through the agony of finishing problems. I've tried them all, Danish, Organoil, Monocell, Floorseal, Polyurethanes and lacquers. My ephiphany / religious experience occurred when I tried spraying rather than ragging. The finish was improved out of sight. So I experimented with spraying combinations of Tung Oil and Urethanes. I found a 50% Tung Oil (Danish) and 50% Urethane (eg Monocell?) mixture produced fantastic results when sprayed with a 1st sealer coat, sanded back with 320, then a final coat. Then I discovered Feast Watson's Floorseal which, I think, is basically a 50% Tung oil & urethane mix. I tried my spraying & sanding combination and it worked fine.

However there was the problem with slight yellowing over time with lighter colored woods like Marri. So I tried a Lacquer (Becker Acroma DM307 -used by the local furniture galleries in Margaret River). And the result was beautiful. Until I started having spray gun problems - which I'm in the process of solving. Then, to come full circle, I had a long conversation last week with the furniture designer at Jah-Roc He's now developing a new line of products using Organoil. He says the secret with organoil is the application. To get the satin finish requires a 1st drowning coat including the sanding dust - left to dry. Then a second coat which is immediately sanded in with fine wet&dry paper. No more oil is added - just lots of elbow grease with finer paper. However, even then he could not achieve his desired satin finish on ALL workpieces. And resorted to danish for those.

Just some thoughts / experiences for what their worth.... Wood finishing can be SO tricky!!

[rsser]

Interesting!

I've gone through a similar set of experiments with finishes on my turnings - mainly bowls. Not v. scientific though since I wasn't controlling for the kind of timber, and now I think once you've sorted what general kind of effect you want, you need to do the old trial and error and find which finish goes best with which species. My pref. is for a low to medium lustre penetrating finish.

FWIW though, these are my matches:

Shithot Waxstik with elm and oak, as recommended by the manufacturer
(now who were they again ;-} )

Sanding sealer and wax with anything green, also Huon Pine

Oil (inc. Danish) with richly figured timbers (ie rich colours and/or contrasting grain).

Danish oil with burls, without wet sanding, cos of the voids

Shellawax with fine grained spindle turnings

I've used Arboroil and Organoil and found them too much work.

[Stuart G]

thanks jur for the info - I think I'll give your recipe a go.

Stuart

[Cliff Rogers]

.... My ephiphany / religious experience occurred when I tried spraying rather than ragging. The finish was improved out of sight. So I experimented with spraying combinations of Tung Oil and Urethanes. ...

G'day.

Can you tell us a bit about your spraying equipment?
Gun type, pressure, nozzel size etc?

[Cliff Rogers]

....Sanding sealer and wax with anything green, also Huon Pine....

2 questions here....

I'm mainly interested for the Huon Pine,

1. Sanding Sealer, what is it, what brand, where do you get it, do you know what's in it?

2. Wax, same again?

Well, that suddenly turned into 8 questions.

[Richardwoodhead]

G'day.

Can you tell us a bit about your spraying equipment?
Gun type, pressure, nozzel size etc?

Cliff, it was a fairly primitive set-up. I was battling (with rags and brushes) with Danish oil and organoil and floorseal (Feast Watson) - trying to get a decent satin finish on doors. The results were awful - too flat or uneven / streaky, etc. Then I sprayed on some Feast Watson Floorseal (basically Tung Oil & Varnish mixture) and my conversion to spray-on finishes was instant and irrevocable. It was with a friends borrowed spray gun.

I then puchased an Iwata 7700 gun & pot and used a small compressor at about 60 psi. Which worked OK if I moved fairly quickly across the surface, as the pressure was a bit high. All that was about 3 years ago.

Then this year I got serious and built a spray booth and upgraded to a "big bertha" 110 psi compressor. And then nothing went right (read my post re lacquer spraying nightmares of about a week ago). Between replies to my post and making enquiries with spraying gurus, I found out my pressure was way too high. So I upgraded to a pressure pot (10 litre "pressure cooker" on wheels with the lacquer at about 1 bar / 10 psi) and with the hose / air pressure regulated down to 50 psi. The lacquer feeds to the gun at 10 psi while the air feeds through the gun at 50 psi. The gun itself is a Iwata 200 pressure feed gun with inline fluid filter. With all the hoses & fittings etc it's about an $800 investment. But to spray with it is a delight.

I think the nozzle size is .2mm? It says .2 somewhere on the nozzle. But the thing has holes all over the place that (as the salesman said) atomises the fluid. (Which I don't think is actually what happens chemically, but it sounds good). It comes out like a nice mist if you air it down (or a river if you air it up). I'm finally getting the hang of it. I've finished 4 table tops (Jarrah, Marri, and Sheoak) and they are even and silky smooth.

Sorry for the long ramble. In the past I've spent so many frustrating hours / days / weeks / months struggling to get smooth, even satin finshes on timber, and that show off the grain - without the long slog of buffing and polishing, that to finally discover the ease and beauty of spray finishes was a revelation. So far I've only sprayed either lacquers or Tung Oil & Varnish (urethane) mixes. Both work beautifully, provided you go at least 2 coats, sanding back between coats with 320 grit. I'd be interested to hear what success others have had with any other sprayed-on finish??

One tip I heard recently was to use car buffing polish on lacquered or varnished surfaces, and it brings them up beautifully. I havn't tried it yet! Anyone ever done that?

[rsser]

I've had good results with a good airless gun and paint, and have been reading these posts with interest (there's a cedar chest of drawers in the workshop coming close to refinishing stage).

Re car buffing compound: many will contain silicone which is said to be a no no.

[Cliff Rogers]

Cool, thanks Richard,
I'm not after something that size, yet, but it's good to know anyway.

How about you Ern, can you help with my sanding sealer and wax questions?

[Bob Willson]

One tip I heard recently was to use car buffing polish on lacquered or varnished surfaces, and it brings them up beautifully. I havn't tried it yet! Anyone ever done that?

This would have the same effect as using the UBeaut tripoli