Clarification on Finishing

[Lawrst]

Hey guys,

First post so be nice :P

I have made a few basic things, Dvd Racks, BIG Blanket Box etc, but looking around I am getting confused at how I can improve my finishes after looking around the internet. Since the furniture I am making atm is for myself and is being done to a budget I am using Pine for basically everything, including the solid top that is drying in the shed at the moment for the new entertainment unit that I am making.

So far all I have done in terms of finish is sand with 80grit, 120, then 240 as a final before stain. I have been using Cabots interior stain (is this oil or gel based?) and everything has been done in Walnut. Over this i have been using Cabots Carbothane Satin.

So my main questions are:

1) Sanding Sealer? Should this be used before the staining stage, what sort of benifit will this get me?

2) How many coats of carbothane should i be putting on? So far i have used 2.

3) Will a good quality brush give me better results?

4) Wax, oil, there are so many different types and styles. What does wax do to a finish, is it ok to apply ontop of the carbothane or is this a different finish in its own right?

5) What is a conditioner?

[Dengue]

hi, I can relate to a lot of these questions, and am looking forward to the answers from the really experienced guys in this forum.

How do you apply the stain and the oil, out of interest? Brush on, wipe off?

What sort of quality finish are you looking for?

[Lawrst]

Nothing?

[mailee]

I am not sure what Carbothane is so I cannot answer tha I am afraid. Normally sanding sealer should be used over a stain with most hardwoods but in the case of Pine I find that a thinned 50/50 mix of sanding sealer and thinner helps to prevent the stain from blotching on Pine as it usually has pourus and more solid patches. After applying the thinned sealer a light nib down and then on with the stain. Wax is a good finish for pine as is oil and varnish. If a high gloss is required it is more difficult with pine and will take a few coats of varnish to achieve. It must be sanded well as being so soft it shows most sanding marks especially under a stain. As you can probably tell I use a lot of Pine and my finish of choice is wax. I hope this is of some help to you.

[Dengue]

thanks mailee, your post has been a big help to a lot of us.


As you can probably tell I use a lot of Pine and my finish of choice is wax

At what stage do you apply the wax? Immediately after the sealing / stain steps?

[Lawrst]

Hey Mailee thanks for replying. Carbothane is Cabots name for their clear polyurethane varnish. As Jill asked when do you apply the wax?

[MK I]

Hi Mailee,

Just a couple of questions...I'm about to finish my pine work bench (hope it wil be strong enough?!). I was gong to use ubeaut water dye and then finish with shellac...but you prefer wax? Could I use Ubeaut traditional wax? What do you use as a grain filler / sanding sealer? I apply this before staining?

Thanks,

Mark

[corbs]

You need A Polishers Handbook (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/book.html). A fantastic resource:2tsup::2tsup:

[Wizened of Oz]

Hi Mailee,

I was gong to use ubeaut water dye and then finish with shellac...but you prefer wax? Could I use Ubeaut traditional wax? What do you use as a grain filler / sanding sealer? I apply this before staining?

Thanks,

Mark

I wouldn't think there is much point in finishing a woodwork bench like that. Is it just to be admired, or are you are going to cut, scrape, rasp, sand, glue, paint, hammer, assemble, etc. on it?
At frequent intervals you will want to scrape off glue and paint/varnish spills and occasionally sand or plane the bench level again. Best thing to do is finish with a few coats of a drying oil, Boiled Linseed Oil or (my preference) Tung Oil. If you want to darken the pine top you can always add a some spirit stain to the oil. Same when you recoat after reconditioning the top.
Forget the grain filler/sanding sealer. Total waste of time in view of the use, wouldn't you think?. And wax on a workbench is hardly desirable. Do you want your work sliding around? What about the chances of the wax getting on your components and interfering with the finish?
BTW, don't forget to oil the underside to prevent warping.

Yes, pine is quite strong enough for a workbench. Durability depends mostly on the construction and has little to do with the timber chosen.

[Cruzi]

So my main questions are:

1) Sanding Sealer? Should this be used before the staining stage, what sort of benifit will this get me?

2) How many coats of carbothane should i be putting on? So far i have used 2.

3) Will a good quality brush give me better results?

4) Wax, oil, there are so many different types and styles. What does wax do to a finish, is it ok to apply ontop of the carbothane or is this a different finish in its own right?

5) What is a conditioner?

1) Sanding sealer is good to help stop the blotchy finish you can get on pine, but it depends on how you want the final look, for a "grainy stain", do not use, for an even colour, spray on stain after sealer.

2) Not overly familiar with that product but 2 can be enough, or lightly sand after 2nd coat and apply final coat

3) Hell yes!

4) People seem to develop a favourite finish, but every type of finish has its advantages and disadvantages, with the Cabots I would let final coat cure for a week or 2 then using 000 steel wool, rub a coat of wax on, this will take out most dust nicks and give a reasonably durable finish.

5) IDK

[Lawrst]

Thanks for that Cruzi.

On question no 4 what sort of wax? I have herd that bees wax is very soft and attracts dust. Something that is undesirable for the Entertainment unit i am making.

[MK I]

Thanks Brian, some good points I hadn't really thought about...sounds like oils the go.

Sorry to Lawrst, for cutting in on your thread!!

[Lawrst]

No worries at all mate.

Ill put my 2c in on your workbench, i have used flooring polyurethane. basically this Cabots - interior products - flooring - oil-based finishes - cabots.com.au (http://www.cabots.com.au/interior/flooring_oilbased.asp)

I have had good results, but anything designed for flooring should wear really well.

[RETIRED]

These might help you.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f9/staining-radiata-pine-whats-secret-success-659/

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f9/staining-10880/

[Lawrst]

Seems like some good info in there.

Thanks.

One thing i havnt noticed on these forums yet is applying stain with a foam roller, really easy to get an even coating and letting it soak in for a bit then wiping away with a rag seems to give a fairly less than blotchy effect.

[mailee]

I will just add my comments to this post and detail the way I work with pine. This isn't a definitive system but one I have found works for me very well. After all the pine is sanded to a pretty fine grade which is usually 240 grit for me I apply and brushed on coat of cellulose sanding sealer thinned 50/50. Once this is dry which is pretty quick I lightly sand the surface with 320 grit. I now apply another coat of sanding sealer but at full strength and again snad using 320 grit. Next I apply the stain using a brush and allow this to soak in for 15-20 mins then remove the excess with a clean cloth. I now leave it until the following day and then apply a final coat of sanding sealer after lightly nibbing the surface. when this is dry about half an hour I sand with 400 grit and then apply the wax with a cloth rubbing it into the grain well. Leave this for around an hour or longer and then using a stiff bristled brush on my drill I buff the surface. This is usually repeated once or twice more dependant on how much sheen I require. As I have stated this is just my method and I have found it works well for me with the materials available here in the UK I cannot comment on the materials available there in Australia but would assume they would be very similar. I hope this has helped some of my fellow woodies out there with their finishing techniques.

[Dengue]

Many thanks for taking the time to post this valuable information, mailee. It is very useful to lot of us here, as the main source of timber in Oz is radiata pine :(


using a stiff bristled brush on my drill I buff the surfaceThis is a new one for me, and I am having trouble visualising it. Any chance of posting a photo please?

[mailee]

Sure Jill, here is a link to the brush in question. It is the last one at the bottom of the page that I use.
Chestnut's Drill Polishing Brush (http://www.agwoodcare.co.uk/prod/drill_polishing_brush.html)

[Dengue]

thanks mailee, I have never seen anything like it before :cool: